IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 8 November 2008 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:01 | <Ahmuck-Jr> www.adobe.com is causing a logout and a keyboard lockup
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| 00:01 | requiring a hard reboot of the client pc
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| 07:23 | <cliebow> good MOrning BTS1
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| 08:17 | <mssmss> hi
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| 08:18 | I recenty installed Edubuntu 8.04.1 for a classroom ltsp setup
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| 08:19 | but I can't get more than two clients up at a time ..looks like dhcp freezes
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| 08:19 | looks like other users have seen the same issue ...
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| 08:19 | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2008-September/002649.html
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| 08:20 | any idea what could be causing this problem ?
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| 08:20 | If I turn on multiple clients, not more than two will boot .. others time out at DHCP
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| 08:21 | but if I wait until one systems boots to screen, then start the next one, then many clients can come up
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| 08:25 | <johnny> this is not a good time for this channel.. really.
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| 08:26 | best are during weekdays..
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| 08:37 | nd___ has joined #ltsp | |
| 08:37 | <nd___> Aloha
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| 08:38 | I just need a quick yes/no if possible: When running applications with LTSP they run on the server and I only get the view via X11? Or do they run on the client and performance of applications is manipulated by the power of the client too?
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| 08:38 | (Well, so I need two answers... dang)
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| 08:38 | <nubae> nd___: both are possible,
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| 08:38 | by default everything runs on the server
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| 08:38 | <nd___> I see
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| 08:39 | <nubae> but we have 2 technologies that allow for local apps, one called, ltsp-localapps
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| 08:39 | and the other fatclient
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| 08:39 | ltsp-localapps allows u to choose individual apps that run on the client, whereas fatclient makes everything run on the client
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| 08:39 | <nd___> ah, I remember reading that
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| 08:42 | <Ahmuck> i understand i can install a chip on the nic. does the chip have boot rom already on it or does one flash the nic to get the boot rom there?
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| 08:42 | <nd___> thanks nubae
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| 08:43 | <Ahmuck> good morning. i'm looking for "boot rom?". is anyone familiar with this method?
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| 08:43 | <nubae> google is your friend Ahmuck
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| 08:43 | nd___ has left #ltsp | |
| 08:43 | <Ahmuck> did that
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| 08:43 | google is a dumb friend at that
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| 08:43 | <nubae> well either u buy a blank rom, or a rom with the data on it
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| 08:44 | http://disklessworkstations.com/
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| 08:44 | that should make it obvious enough
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| 08:47 | <Ahmuck> k, thx nubae that helps.
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| 08:48 | newegg has the entire card for 9.00 and that site has boot roms for 15.00
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| 08:48 | go figure
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| 08:48 | <rjune__> it's probably not a great card
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| 08:48 | intel cards all do PXE native
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| 08:48 | as do quite a few more recent cards
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| 08:48 | <nubae> almost all cards do now, dont they?
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| 08:48 | <Ahmuck> for 8.0 i'd be willing to try
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| 08:49 | i'm using older cards, 10/100. the newer cards will do 100/1000
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| 08:50 | <rjune__> even the 10/100 intel cards do pxe
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| 09:04 | <Ahmuck> hi rjune__
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| 09:05 | <rjune__> howdy
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| 09:33 | <johnny> Ahmuck, many already network boot just fine.
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| 09:46 | <Ahmuck> johnny: with pxe, yes
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| 09:46 | mine don't :(
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| 09:47 | i do have a bunch od 3c905b-txnnm however
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| 09:49 | <Ahmuck> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833130004
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| 10:57 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 11:28 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: Hey hey
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| 11:28 | <vagrantc> hiya
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| 11:28 | <sbalneav> So, which version of Debian does the logout hang with?
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| 11:29 | We made a change late yesterday to both ltsp-trunk and ldm-trunk
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| 11:29 | we decided to just ditch the "DISP" enviornment variable, and just set DISPLAY properly
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| 11:29 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: i'm guessing it's debian etch, but i've been testing with debian lenny with an older version of openssh-server
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| 11:30 | <sbalneav> Not the version that comes with lenny?
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| 11:30 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: yeah, i always wondered about that DISP thing
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| 11:30 | <sbalneav> Does it work with the ssh version that comes WITH lenny?
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| 11:30 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: nope, the version that comes with lenny seems fine.
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| 11:30 | <sbalneav> Ok
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| 11:30 | Now, lenny's the latest stable, right?
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| 11:30 | <vagrantc> not yet
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| 11:30 | getting there
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| 11:30 | <sbalneav> ok
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| 11:31 | <vagrantc> etch is current stable, lenny's in a hard freeze
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| 11:31 | i don't intend to backport newer ltsp stuff to etch, so it's not a huge deal for me specifically...
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| 11:31 | <sbalneav> I really, REALLY don't want to go back to the kill, since it leaves so many droppings around. So I'd like to figure out why it doesn't work on Etch when all indications are that it should.
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| 11:31 | <vagrantc> but it suggests to me that it might have this issue if folks want to log into older OSes using ldm
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| 11:31 | <sbalneav> Oh, so are we worrying uneccessarily?
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| 11:32 | Hm
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| 11:33 | <vagrantc> the whole "ldm can log into any server running ssh" thing
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| 11:33 | <sbalneav> We shouldn't need to do the "kill", it was always such a hack
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| 11:34 | <vagrantc> i'm pretty sure that it has to do with being started using dbus-launch ...
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| 11:34 | i think ogra said that ubuntu doesn't use dbus-launch anymore
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| 11:34 | but for both icewm and gnome, it uses dbus-launch
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| 11:35 | wonder if i can find a window manager that doesn't use dbus-launch to log in
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| 11:35 | <sbalneav> Maybe fedora doesn't either?
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| 11:35 | warren: You there?
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| 11:35 | Does Fedora use dbus-launch
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| 11:36 | <sbalneav> Fedora uses dbus-launch, I just checked with Warren
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| 11:36 | <vagrantc> the part that i find *really* strange, is even if i kill *all* running processes of the user, it *still* doesn't log out
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| 11:36 | <sbalneav> Rel 5 does as well
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| 11:36 | <warren> RHEL5
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| 11:37 | <sbalneav> Sorry :)
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| 11:37 | <vagrantc> whereas during the pdx hackfest, killing dbus-launch would actually cause it to finish logging out
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| 11:37 | <sbalneav> Is that after the mods I did yesterday, or just the <> /dev/null patch?
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| 11:38 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: with all the patches applied to current ldm-trunk, and i also tried applying your "2> /dev/null" addition with no luck
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| 11:41 | <sbalneav> Yeah, yesterday I managed to get in proper sigchld handling. It's going to be a bit buggy for sure, and when I get back to winnipeg, they'll be some more patches from that.
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| 11:42 | So I'm wondering if that's causing some problems.
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| 11:42 | It seems to work here, under Ubuntu and Fedora
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| 11:42 | Buth that doesn't mean it doesn't need some more work
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| 11:44 | * warren tests it on fedora again | |
| 11:47 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: oh, looks like i didn't test with your most recent patch to ldm-trunk
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| 11:48 | looks like the DISP -> DISPLAY switch, plus a change with handle_entry(GTK_ENTRY(entry), window);
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| 11:48 | in the greeter
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| 12:13 | <vagrantc> ok, build current ldm-trunk still fails with debian lenny using an older version of openssh-server
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| 12:13 | fails to log out on the second and subsequent logins
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| 12:13 | first goes just fine.
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| 12:17 | <vagrantc> in the logs, i see "ending ssh session" and "shutting down ssh session", the socket is still open (note: it seems to be missing the vtNN part)
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| 12:18 | /var/run/ldm_socket__192.168.0.1
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| 12:23 | <davidj> sbalneav: Ping?
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| 12:24 | <rjune__> davidj: howdy
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| 12:39 | <vagrantc> hrm.
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| 12:40 | now ldm is hanging on logout with newer versions of openssh ...
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| 12:44 | yes, now it is consistantly hanging for me.
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| 12:47 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: do you see the ttyname call in the code?
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| 12:50 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: i see some code mentioning ttyname
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| 12:50 | what's this about: ldm.vty = ttyname + 5;
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| 12:51 | <sbalneav> Well, ttyname returns a "/dev/ttyxxxx" name
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| 12:51 | <vagrantc> ah, i see a FIXME around it too
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| 12:51 | <sbalneav> Yeah, we should be doing that a little better
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| 12:52 | so ttyname_r isn't returning a ttyname?
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| 12:52 | <vagrantc> well, ldm.vty doesn't contain anything when it creates the socket ...
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| 12:52 | <sbalneav> hm
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| 12:53 | ok, lemme add some code to parse the string a little more intelligently
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| 12:53 | one sec
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| 12:54 | <vagrantc> i've gotta eat and then run to work soon ...
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| 13:00 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: ok, check out r939
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| 13:01 | lets at least see if it gives you an error message now
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| 13:32 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: well, interesting ...
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| 13:32 | sbalneav: that worked fine the first login, as usual, but when ldm respawned, it kept spitting out error messages ...
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| 13:33 | sbalneav: "couldn't determine the tty name"
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| 14:25 | <sbalneav> ls
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| 15:22 | <johnny> hello warren_
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| 15:26 | <chrisinajar> He is the afk.
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| 15:35 | <Ahmuck> iv'e got a number of thin clients that fail to boot to a login screen. here is the error and the specs. should i be filing a bug?
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| 15:35 | Disconecting: que, disconnect, sock, done
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| 15:36 | [36.883906] hbd0: Recieve control failed (result -32)
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| 15:36 | before the Disconec... line, is this line Setting up LTSP client ...
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| 15:37 | the mobo is an AOpen AX6BC with a AOpen PG80/DVD video card an either a Acer G722 or a AOC 7Gir monitor
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| 15:38 | a number of them fail with the above error messages one simply fails with many messages so is suspect something odd is going on with the hardware in it, however as all the others are failing with the same error i suspect it's unsupported hardware ?
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| 15:38 | these are 450mhz, 256mb, and 8 or 16 mb video clients
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| 15:40 | i need to step out for the afternoon, as i'm exhausted trying to get this solution to work. msg me if you have any idea what it might be. i'm using ubuntu ltsp server installation, and i'll not cross post. if i there is no reply, i'm going to file a bug in both bug lists. i would have suspected this hardware was supported as a thin client
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| 15:41 | <vagrantc> doesn't sound like a hardware problem to me.
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| 15:41 | un
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| 15:41 | [13:40] [vagrantc(+ei)] [3:#ltsp(+cnt)] [Act: 9]
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| 15:41 | [13:40] [vagrantc(+ei)] [3:#ltsp(+cnt)] [Act: 9] [#ltsp]
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| 15:41 | oops
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| 15:41 | Ahmuck: unless it didn't detect your network card
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| 15:42 | <Ahmuck> vagrantc: it detects it, as i've been using these cards in other machines and ltsp on them to verify they work
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| 15:42 | one other note, if i put a 4.x G hard drive in and install xubuntu they work fine.
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| 15:43 | albeit in low graphics mode
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| 15:43 | <vagrantc> but does the version of ltsp you're currently using detect the network card?
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| 15:46 | <Ahmuck> wouldn't it if the network card works with ltsp in another machine?
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| 15:49 | vagrantc: i'm confused a bit. if the network card is recognized in one machine, wouldn't it be recognized in this machine as well ?
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| 15:49 | it's a pxe 3com card and it boots a ltsp client in another machine
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| 15:50 | <vagrantc> probably would be.
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| 15:50 | but it's not impossible for machines that seem identical to contain different parts on the inside.
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| 15:50 | <Ahmuck> they are identical. i put them togather this afternoon
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| 15:50 | <vagrantc> though i *think* you'd get a different error message
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| 15:51 | <Ahmuck> i'll try a different video card when i get back next week and see if that is the problem
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| 15:51 | <Ahmuck> on a nother note, we have a number of imac's osx 9.2 and i assume we can use those as well?
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| 15:51 | <vagrantc> ah, it's already booted to the root filesystem ...
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| 15:51 | <johnny> it's more complicated ..
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| 15:51 | <vagrantc> and running the init scripts
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| 15:52 | <johnny> you have to build the chroot on the imacs
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| 15:52 | and then copy it to your server
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| 15:53 | <vagrantc> Ahmuck: sounds more like nbd is dying part way through the boot process ...
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| 15:53 | <Ahmuck> nbd?
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| 15:53 | network boot dameon ?
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| 15:53 | anywho, i've not got the server ordered yet, thankfully, as i was hoping to use the older hardware, but may need to consider something else
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| 15:55 | <vagrantc> network block device
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| 15:55 | it's one of the more recent ways ltsp mounts it's root filesystem over the network
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| 15:56 | <Ahmuck> arg, i'll stay. i'm going to cancel my afternoon
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| 15:56 | and try to de-bug this
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| 16:00 | <alkisg> vagrantc, there are some new strings in ldm (untranslated), how are translation-updates handled? I just generate a new ldm.po and send it to you? :)
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| 16:03 | <Ahmuck> k, swapped video card. it's the board
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| 16:04 | it appears that board is not compatible with ltsp though it does work for xubuntu
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| 16:04 | evne with a new video card, the error is the same
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| 16:04 | i'll post it as a bug for non-compatible hardware
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| 16:07 | <Ahmuck> before i do, i'm going to pull both video cards and try them in a good machine i know that boots to ltsp client to verify it's not the video cards
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| 16:09 | <vagrantc> alkisg: translation updates haven't been handled much at all lately :)
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| 16:09 | <alkisg> vagrantc, should I send you an updated version, or just wait for the new version you're all preparing?
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| 16:09 | <vagrantc> alkisg: not sure ...
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| 16:10 | alkisg: might want to wait a bit, as there may be some significant changes in the near future ... so strings may change.
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| 16:11 | <alkisg> vagrantc, ok, I'll stay tuned! :)
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| 16:13 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i've been meaning to take a look at making calls for translations soonish
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| 16:22 | <alkisg> vagrantc, general question about translations: I've seen a nice interface for translations in translations.launchpad.net (is that rosetta?). It's very easy for the translators, because it also proposes translations from other packages. How easy or hard would it be for the developers of some application to use that? (or, if there are any other reasons not to use it...)
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| 16:30 | <vagrantc> alkisg: difficult.
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| 16:30 | <alkisg> vagrantc, ok, ty
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| 16:31 | <vagrantc> alkisg: at least, it's a closed project, and the debian translation teams have really found the translations recieved by way of rosetta to be of varying quality- often very disconnected and disjointed.
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| 16:31 | alkisg: very inconsistant translations, etc.
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| 16:32 | alkisg: but i haven't used it directly, merely heard word from various teams that have been working on translation projects in debian for years...
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| 16:33 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I see... I've had a long talk with others about the translation quality vs translation quantity, and I thought "well, better to have not-so-good translations than no translations at all", but I see the point here
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| 16:34 | <alkisg> It must become an open project first, and easy for the developers, and maybe with a ranking system for the translators, so that the developers would be able to estimate the quality...
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| 16:35 | ...and "better" translators would be able to override "worse" translations... well, somethink like this would take time, I guess
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| 16:44 | <vagrantc> alkisg: it mainly seems to need to require an overall process for making consistant translations for a given application, and a good review process, most likely.
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| 16:49 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: Can you try 940?
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| 16:49 | Just pushed it.
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| 16:50 | As a further test:
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| 16:50 | disable localdevs, here's why:
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| 16:50 | We're <> /dev/null the Xsession, but NOT the ltspfsmounter remove all
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| 16:50 | <vagrantc> i've actually been testing with localdev, local_app and sound disabled.
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| 16:51 | <sbalneav> Hm, that was my other thought, that maybe ssh was waiting for output from ltspfsmounter
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| 16:51 | ok, then try enabling them :)
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| 16:51 | <vagrantc> well, i've tested with them enabled as well.
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| 16:51 | i've been trying with all possible combinations :)
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| 16:52 | <sbalneav> ok
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| 16:52 | <sbalneav> Try 940, see if that makes any difference
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| 16:52 | <vagrantc> though i've erred on the side of disabling stuff mostly, trying to get to the root cuase.
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| 16:52 | <jammcq> Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 16:52 | <sbalneav> jammq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 16:52 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: i'll see if i can wrangle some time to do so
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| 16:53 | <sbalneav> I'll set up a lenny box when I get home.
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| 16:53 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: could you cut-and paste your commit messages for your merge commit messages?
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| 16:53 | johnny has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:54 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: would be helpful :)
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| 16:54 | <sbalneav> bzr log in trunk shows my local tree log messages
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| 16:54 | why should I duplucate?
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| 16:54 | <vagrantc> bzr log -r -1
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| 16:54 | 940 Scott Balneaves 2008-11-08 [merge]
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| 16:54 | Merged from Scott's tree
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| 16:54 | <sbalneav> right
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| 16:54 | <vagrantc> that's what i see
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| 16:55 | <sbalneav> in mine, I see:
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| 16:55 | <vagrantc> so i have to specify --long
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| 16:55 | to see the actual commit messages
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| 16:55 | <sbalneav> ..........and?
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| 16:56 | Then if someone specifies --long, they're going to get duped messages
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| 16:56 | that seems not right
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| 16:58 | <vagrantc> well, bzr tells me it's a merge and from where, so it's not right either to specify that in the commit message.
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| 16:58 | if redundancy of information is your primary concern.
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| 16:58 | it was just a small request, take it or leave it as you please.
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| 16:59 | alternately, briefly summarize what the merged commits contain
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| 17:00 | <sbalneav> No, I'm fine with doing it, it's just that it seems redundant
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| 17:01 | <vagrantc> both ways carry redundancy
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| 17:01 | <sbalneav> ok, no problem
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| 17:02 | We were only using the vt tag in the control socket as a differentiator between multiple ldm instances running on the same thin client
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| 17:03 | so I just ditched the ttyname_r and per stgraber's suggestion, just using getpid()
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| 17:03 | so that should solve the whacky
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| 17:03 | control socket name problem
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| 17:04 | when I get home, I'll put together a Lenny box, and try to track down the ssh problem
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| 17:04 | now, does debian still use nfs + bindmount only, i.e. is the overlay mount in the kernel still broken?
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| 17:05 | <vagrantc> default is nfs + bindmounts, yes.
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| 17:05 | there's options to use NBD and such
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| 17:08 | <sbalneav> Does that work now? I remember Debian used to have a problem with either the ramfs, or the mounting of the ramfs over the nfs
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| 17:09 | it'd REALLY be sweet if we ditched the bindmounts, and could just get the ramfs mounting over either nfs or nbd
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| 17:10 | For me, anyway, the ram overlying the nfs would be really nice.
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| 17:10 | <vagrantc> i've heard people have sucess with it using aufs
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| 17:10 | aufs with tmpfs/NFS overlays
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| 17:11 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: Oh, also, I'm going to add a trap handler to the ldm screen script so that killing the screen script cleans up the XAUTHORITY file.
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| 17:11 | You'll see that pushed soon
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| 17:11 | <vagrantc> i haven't tried it in a while, but NBD+aufs+squashfs worked fine.
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| 17:11 | <sbalneav> Oh, cool.
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| 17:11 | We should look at ditching the bindmounts then, at some point.
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| 17:12 | <vagrantc> i've also done NBD+ext2+bindmounts, which was nice.
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| 17:12 | allowed for updating the chroot without rebuilding it
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| 17:12 | <sbalneav> ah, yeah
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| 17:12 | that'd be good too.
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| 17:12 | <vagrantc> NBD+aufs+ext2+tmpfs would probably also work.
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| 17:13 | <sbalneav> we're just about to have dinner here, I'll be afk for a bit.
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| 17:13 | then I'll get the trap handler in.
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| 17:53 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: 940 hung initiating the second login attempt
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| 17:53 | i'm supicious of the XAUTHORITY changes in that one.
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| 17:53 | i seem to recall having issues with XAUTHORITY needing to only be set when LDM_DIRECTX=true
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| 18:00 | seems like the XAUTHORITY file isn't being created
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| 18:01 | ah, it's only created ONCE in the screen script, but then deletes it somewhere else...
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| 18:30 | <killsalad> hi all - how can I use terminal's local hard drive, somebody told me that local /tmp would help performance?
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| 20:37 | <warren> Gadi, sbalneav: If you have any good photos of the group I could use for my blog, please let me know.
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| 21:24 | <Gadi> howdy, vagrantc
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| 21:31 | * vagrantc looks at all the pushes today | |
| 21:32 | <Gadi> hehe
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| 21:32 | good to doublecheck them - folks here have been drinkin
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| 21:33 | brb
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| 21:37 | <vagrantc> Gadi: mostly, it's my usual nitpicking :)
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| 21:38 | localapps menu stuff, though .. wheee
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| 21:49 | <warren> vagrantc: Gadi: any idea what version of GNOME that will work with?
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| 21:49 | KDE too?
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| 21:56 | <vagrantc> warren: i have no confirmation that it works at all :)
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| 21:57 | nor have i even tried it
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| 23:29 | <johnny> yum is really annoying on missing repositories..
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| 23:40 | <Ryan52> johnny: how many distros do you use? :)
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| 23:45 | <johnny> on which computers? :)
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| 23:45 | web developers tend to work with alot of different OS
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| 23:45 | or rather.. alot of different distros
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| 23:46 | <johnny> some servers are debian, some centos, some rhel, some ubuntu, some gentoo
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| 23:46 | on the desktop tho.. ubuntu, gentoo, and now fedora.. so i could understand rhel stuff better
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| 23:47 | <Ryan52> that would confuse me way too much.
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| 23:47 | <johnny> being a web developer is uber complicated..
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| 23:48 | the amount of variables that are completely out of your control is unumerable..
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| 23:52 | <johnny> Ryan52, you should be lucky any web pages you look at even work :)
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| 23:53 | <Ryan52> some even tell me they work! http://ryan52.info/ :D
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| 23:53 | <johnny> hehe
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| 23:54 | to be a web developer.. you really have to understand the plumbing of the internet...
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| 23:54 | altho.. mail is often the most complicated..
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| 23:55 | i don't own a mac or any win boxes .. that's given me more brain power :)
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| 23:56 | i probably should be more proficient at bsd in general tho..
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