IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 11 July 2017   (all times are UTC)

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14:37
<paulo_silvaa>
Hello guys! How are you? My name is Paulo and I'm from Brazil.
14:38
I have a question and would be grateful if someone would help me.
14:38
<vagrantc>
!ask | echo paulo_silvaa
14:38
<ltsp`>
paulo_silvaa ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
14:40
<paulo_silvaa>
I have some problems with browsers in LTSP, they consume a lot of CPU. I tried Mozilla Firefox and Google Chrome, both on my Debian Wheezie.
14:40
<vagrantc>
wheezy is quite old at this point
14:41
<paulo_silvaa>
This is a problem for me and I would like to know if someone have a tip about this... What browser do you use
14:41
<vagrantc>
are you using thin or fat clients?
14:41
<paulo_silvaa>
Thin
14:41
What OS do you recommend?
14:41
<vagrantc>
what are the hardware specs of your clients?
14:42
<paulo_silvaa>
CPU: Dual Core
14:42
MEM: 2GB
14:42
<vagrantc>
paulo_silvaa: well, there have been two debian releases in the 4 years since wheezy was released
14:42
<paulo_silvaa>
But the browser run on server right?
14:42
Or they run on the client too?
14:42
<vagrantc>
paulo_silvaa: i'd recommend trying fat clients if you have that much ram
14:43
with thin clients, the browser runs on the server... even with a very fast server, it will be slow
14:43
!fat
14:43
<ltsp`>
I do not know about 'fat', but I do know about these similar topics: 'fatclient-printers', 'epoptes-fat-clients', 'fat-internal-disks', 'fat-passwd', 'fat-sudo', 'fatclients'
14:43
<vagrantc>
!ltsp-pnp
14:43
<ltsp`>
ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
14:43
<vagrantc>
you can also do ltsp-pnp with debian
14:43
!debian
14:43
<ltsp`>
debian: is a GNU/Linux based operating system that makes an excellent LTSP server. You can find it at http://www.debian.org. for information about LTSP on debian see http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP
14:43
<paulo_silvaa>
Okay! Thank you very much!
14:44
:D
14:44
<vagrantc>
with fat clients, the software running will take advantage of the client's ram and CPU
14:44
and i'd suggest using debian stretch
14:45
<paulo_silvaa>
Do you suggest any other SO?
14:45
<vagrantc>
it will get the best security support for the next 3-5 years
14:45
SO?
14:45
<paulo_silvaa>
Sorry
14:45
OS
14:45
Operation System
14:45
<vagrantc>
well, i maintain LTSP in Debian, so i'm biased :)
14:46
<paulo_silvaa>
Do you think that XFCE is a good GUI to use with LTSP?
14:46
Okay, hehe.
14:48
What GUI do you use with your Debian?
14:54
<vagrantc>
i use i3, but i'm not sure that would work for most people :)
14:54
for LTSP installs, i've used gnome, mate, lxde
14:58
<paulo_silvaa>
Hahahaa, I agree
14:58
<vagrantc>
xfce is probably fine too
15:00
<paulo_silvaa>
Yes, is a good GUI to end users. :)
15:00
Thank you very much for help friend! Good bye!
15:01
<vagrantc>
good luck
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15:32
<ZAJDAN>
hi vagrant: If I remember correctly ..you use LTSP on Debian..do you use there also Epoptes?
15:34
vagrantc: if yes ...could You try in the Epoptes feature 'LOCK/UNLOCK screen' ? lock the screen ...wait half minute and try unlock
15:38
<vagrantc>
ZAJDAN: i don't have it in use in any real-world settings
15:44
ZAJDAN: but i can try it on a test setup
15:45
ZAJDAN: what version of epoptes are you using?
15:50
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I asked highvoltage about this, and he thinks it's a good idea: why don't we just deprecate all ldm themes and keep one ltsp theme for all distros?
15:51
I don't think there's any ongoing effort to make ldm themes for edubuntu or ubuntu or xfce or whatever nowadays...
15:51
<vagrantc>
just make the default theme nicer?
15:51
<alkisg>
Yeah
15:52
I like the Ubuntu theme just fine, if it said "LTSP" on top I think it'd be fine for all
15:52
<vagrantc>
i've been updating the theme with Debian's artwork each release cycle
15:52
well, the ldm-themes package in Debian
15:53
sooner we can move away from ldm, the more moot this becomes
15:53
<alkisg>
True... but I wonder how many years that will take :)
15:53
This theme: http://www.m-opensolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/mint_ltsp_2.png, with this logo: http://www.berryterminal.com/qemu-stuff.png, seems fine to me for all ltsp users
15:54
And, it's possible to login from a debian client to an ubuntu server, so the distro logo doesn't apply too much there anyway...
15:54
<highvoltage>
+1 on default theme nicer
15:55
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i don't know that that theme is any nicer :P
15:56
<alkisg>
You can put the one you prefer, I don't mind
15:56
<vagrantc>
the issue is including a default theme that takes more space if it's going to be overriden by the distro
15:57
the default theme was optimized for size for this reason
15:57
<alkisg>
The distro can discard the default theme if it ships one
15:57
So no extra space at all
15:58
<vagrantc>
then it requires more packaging to maintain
15:58
especially if you want to just pull in the ldm package from debian, you'd have to fork it for ubuntu again
15:58
<alkisg>
Yes, maintaining 2 more lines in packaging that don't ever change should be less burden than maintaining themes...
15:58
Nah, the rules can build the default theme on ubuntu
15:59
<vagrantc>
doubt that will be just two more lines in the package
15:59
<alkisg>
Anyways, it sounds like you're negative about this, so let's forget it
16:01
<vagrantc>
that said, i should try to get some minor fixes into the theme for debian :)
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16:01
<alkisg>
We'll need to put those lines in the ltsp-manager packaging though
16:01
So that it recommends different themes on debian vs ubuntu
16:02
Maybe an ldm-ubuntu-theme | ldm-themes will be enough for both worlds
16:02
<vagrantc>
i think it uses the X-Ubuntu-Recommends or whatever
16:03
<alkisg>
I didn't put X-Ubuntu-Recommends in the ltsp-manager packaging
16:03
I don't support X- directives yet there
16:03
It sounded like too much burden to maintain
16:03
I prefer simplicity
16:04
<vagrantc>
well, it's bad form to depend on packages that aren't present in Debian, even if another alternative is available
16:04
<alkisg>
I know, I'm the one that proposed it ;)
16:04
<vagrantc>
might even be an explicit policy violation...
16:04
<alkisg>
But I wouldn't want it in ltsp-manager if I can avoid it...
16:04
I prefer packages that are the same in debian as in ubuntu, e.g. epoptes...
16:05* vagrantc suspects it won't really be avoidable
16:06
<alkisg>
This is the ltsp-pnp line:
16:06
apt-get --yes --install-recommends install dnsmasq ltsp-server-standalone ltsp-client ldm-ubuntu-theme
16:06
So that would roughly translate to this Recommends: dnsmasq, ltsp-server-standalone, ltsp-client, ldm-ubuntu-theme | ldm-themes
16:07
Does Debian need something different there?
16:07
<vagrantc>
well, ldm-ubuntu-theme isn't in debian
16:07
so it would fail... ??
16:07
<alkisg>
No, it would be satisfied with ldm-themes
16:07
The actual line I'm using now is: Recommends: apturl, bindfs, dnsmasq, epoptes, ethtool, iperf, ldm-ubuntu-theme | ldm-edubuntu-theme | ldm-kubuntu-theme | ldm-lubuntu-theme | ldm-xubuntu-theme | ldm-themes, ltsp-client (>= 5.4.0), ltsp-docs, ltsp-server-standalone (>= 5.4.0) | ltsp-server (>= 5.4.0)
16:07
<vagrantc>
ah, not calling apt-get explicitly?
16:07
<alkisg>
It did install fine on debian
16:07
No, it's in debian/control => recommends
16:08
<vagrantc>
sure, it installs fine, but it will eventually get bug reports about being incorrect
16:08
oh, ltsp-docs
16:08* vagrantc sighs
16:09
<vagrantc>
alkisg: it's technically fine, it's just not correct :P
16:10
<alkisg>
vagrantc: what do you suggest that we do?
16:12
<vagrantc>
alkisg: if you really must have that, have different dependencies in ubuntu
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16:12
<alkisg>
vagrantc: have what? ltsp-manager recommending all the required packages, instead of the user manually selecting all of them?
16:12
<vagrantc>
alkisg: alternately, ship a differtent ldm-themes package in ubuntu
16:13
<alkisg>
OK, let's then rename ldm-ubuntu-theme to ldm-themes in Ubuntu and we're done
16:13
And drop all the ldm-edubuntu/kubuntu etc ones
16:14
<vagrantc>
and it could Provide: ldm-ubuntu-theme in order to have backwards compatibility with previous dependency chains
16:14
<alkisg>
Cool
16:14
<vagrantc>
i don't see what's so hard about different dependencies on ubuntu and debian, though
16:15
<alkisg>
It increases the chaos instead of decreasing it
16:15
I don't see why ubuntu *must* have different dependencies when it doesn't need them
16:15
It's ltsp; we're the programmers; we're maintainers for both distros; why must we make it hard on ourselves
16:16
<vagrantc>
well, the core reason is we want different themes :P
16:17
<alkisg>
The packaging can just cp $DISTRO.png to target
16:17
Anyways, I think we got a solution
16:19
<vagrantc>
build a different default theme on ubuntu?
16:19
a little bit larger theme in the source package isn't so bad.
16:19
within reason
16:21* alkisg needs to go & waves, see you guys later :)
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