IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 18 November 2015   (all times are UTC)

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07:20
<alkisg>
vagrantc: have you seen https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/693151 ?
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07:33
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i've seen the bug ... never had a dual-monitor setup to test with
07:35
<alkisg>
The person that sent the patch seems tired, like the devs are not even responding to patches etc
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13:55
<schlady>
Hi there!
13:55
Has anyone of you used Dropbox on LTSP FatClients?
13:57
I have the problem that the dropbox database seems to be corrupted everytime the FatClient is restarted and therefore always forced the user to login into dropbox again. Is that a problem with dropbox and ssfs?!
13:58
sshfs
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14:11
<bennabiy>
vagrantc, alkisg: The issue with that bug is it is two different issues people are running into. It is one I experience because of the thin client I use. Somehow it picks up a ghost display which is not present, which needs to be disabled (hence the LVDS fix) but the original poster was having issues with an actual dual display having the login split between windows.
14:11
Same issue, but two different issues
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15:40work_alkisg is now known as alkisg
15:40
<alkisg>
bennabiy: I think the main issue is that noone is working on upstreaming that bug :)
15:40
*patch
15:41
<bennabiy>
alkisg: In a few weeks I might be able to, but I do not have a dual monitor setup where I am at to confirm, but I know I can confirm it with the client I have (the second of the effects of the bug)
15:42
<alkisg>
Can you confirm that the patch solves the second issue?
15:42
Also, it's quite easy to arrange a multi-monitor setup in a vbox client
15:42
<bennabiy>
Ah yes, I forgot about that
15:43
I will test it and let you know
15:43
<alkisg>
That'd be cool, thanks
15:43
A comment in the bug report "works for me, solves the second issue with no regressions" should be enough to get it upstream...
15:45
<bennabiy>
I do not remember, did the fat client password hash make it upstream into 14.04?
15:47
<alkisg>
I think it's post-14.04
15:47
Maybe even post-15.10
15:47
It's available in the Greek schools PPA though
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15:58
<teknkik>
now that you guys mentioned it
15:58
the login screen being split across 2 displays shows up in the setup i administer as well
15:58
ubuntu 14.04
15:58
<alkisg>
teknkik: are you able to test the fix?
15:59
that's proposed in that bug report?
16:01
<lbssousa>
Phantomas, alkisg, I've just seen Epoptes' latest revisions (457 and 458). I presume my auto-reconnect branch is no longer needed, right?
16:02
<alkisg>
lbssousa: yup, I had to reject it, thank you though!
16:02
<teknkik>
well it's kinda an deployment system
16:02
but we're doing some maintenance on it on 12th of december, i'll add that to the list
16:05
<alkisg>
lbssousa: some of the issues are hard to solve correctly, that's why we don't work on them for a long time... some of your branches unfortunately target such issues... e.g. we'll probably do the same for the multi-seat branch, once ubuntu starts using systemd for the user sessions
16:05
So your branches are welcome; but unfortnately some of them aren't commit-able...
16:06
teknkik: I'll try to have an ldm build in one of the PPAs till then, so that you can test and comment more easily.
16:10
<lbssousa>
alkisg, Phantomas, OK. I'll test latest epoptes-client code and see if auto-reconnection works for me. I'll tell you if I find something relevant.
16:10
<alkisg>
Thank you lbssousa :)
16:11
<lbssousa>
Any comment about my x11vnc-wrapper branch?
16:11
It's the last one now.
16:16
<alkisg>
lbssousa: it's a bit "hackish" to have to slow down the mouse, that's why we aren't committing it without exploring other options first
16:17
And it's low priority, so that one will unfortunately have to wait too, sorry :-/
16:17
<lbssousa>
alkisg: OK :)
16:17
<alkisg>
It may be the best solution available, and thank you for that, but I don't think we can commit it without fully exploring it first (also for possible regressions)
16:18
Thanks! :)
16:20
<lbssousa>
BTW Please keep track of https://github.com/LibVNC/x11vnc/issues/18
16:22
<alkisg>
Nice!
16:34
<bennabiy>
alksig: testing on my client right now...
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16:35
<bennabiy>
patch does not fix second issue
16:36
If I do not have the video=LVDS-1:d then I get the split screen issue (with no second screen)
16:37
any other testing I should do before I remove the image?
16:39
is there a way to only target ltsp-update-image to build from one chroot, and not everything in the /opt/ltsp directory?
16:39
alkisg ^
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16:49
<afmorro>
hi guys. just a simple question. Is LTSP dead?
16:49
haven't seen any modifications/updates on the website in a couple years now
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16:50
<alkisg>
afmorro: no it's not dead, but it only has a couple of developers working on it now
16:51
<afmorro>
so sad...
16:51
<alkisg>
And outside contributions are now minimal
16:51
Well, you could maintain the site if you wanted :)
16:51
<afmorro>
to many things going on now. :)
16:52
<alkisg>
For all of us :)
16:52
<afmorro>
for sure.
16:52
<alkisg>
So at least it's still working fine
16:52
Even if the documentation is not updated frequently
16:53
<afmorro>
yeap, just cuz' usually we se lots and lots of updates on pretty much everything, and ltsp seemed to be stoped somewhere in 2013
16:53
<alkisg>
bennabiy: so you now have a ghost monitor and the login is at the virtual center of those 2 monitors?
16:53
<afmorro>
and since been a longe time I don't work with it, and now got a project for a public school, made me go searching documentations again
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16:53
<alkisg>
Some persons left the project then, yes
16:53
The guy that was working with the wiki included
16:53
<bennabiy>
on my actual thin client, yes, the main monitor is showing half a screen, with the logo pushed over to the right hand side.
16:54
<alkisg>
bennabiy: could you comment on the bug report?
16:54
<afmorro>
allright. Thank you for your help. Back to building up my server and making some students happy again.
16:54
<alkisg>
bennabiy: ltsp-update-image chroot?
16:54
afmorro: which distro/version will you be using?
16:55
<afmorro>
Maybe CentOS, which I like, but ubuntu and its derivates seem to be more user friendly, specially for people migrating from windows
16:55
<bennabiy>
alkisg: I thought I tried that, but I probably tried ltsp-update-image -a i386 or something like that
16:55
<alkisg>
afmorro: ltsp isn't maintained on centos, but it's working fine for ubuntu if you use our ppa
16:55
bennabiy: -a won't work, right
16:55
<bennabiy>
yes
16:56
<maldridge>
afmorro: highly recommend ubuntu, the ppa gets updates way faster than any other source
16:56
<alkisg>
!greek-schools-ppa
16:56
<ltsp>
greek-schools-ppa: https://launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr/+archive/ppa/ supports LTS Ubuntu releases with newer LTSP versions, bug fixes etc
16:56
<bennabiy>
alkisg: without the -a it works
16:56
thank you
16:56
<alkisg>
We're using that one in 1000+ schools
16:56
<afmorro>
I'll try. Will its derivates work fine also?
16:57
<maldridge>
afmorro: I'm running stuff here on xubuntu, haven't noticed any issues thus far
16:57
<alkisg>
afmorro: some of them. Gnome-flashback is the recommented one, lubuntu and mate will also work fine
16:57
Thanks maldridge for the xubuntu input
16:57
<maldridge>
np
16:57
<afmorro>
awesome.
16:57
<bennabiy>
afmorro: works fine in linuxmint
16:57
<alkisg>
Personally I don't recomment linux mint, its packaging sucks (unrelated to ltsp)
16:57* bennabiy sighs
16:57
<alkisg>
E.g. apt-get dist-upgrade => base files complains about /etc/os-release
16:58
<maldridge>
alkisg: can you suggest any sources for school management software in linux?
16:58
<alkisg>
The mint developers don't even know to at least use dpkg-divert...
16:58
<afmorro>
linuxmint... its... didn't like it
16:58
<alkisg>
maldridge: school management, as in timetable etc?
16:58
Or like epoptes, sch-scripts, i.e. computer lab administration?
16:58
<afmorro>
allright. Time to download xubuntu. Thank you alkisg and bennabiy
16:59
<bennabiy>
afmorro: good luck!
16:59
<maldridge>
alkisg: as in grade management, degree planning, transcript generation etc. I was tasked to find a replacement to a program that was EOL'd back in 2005 with XP
16:59
<afmorro>
thank you all
16:59
<alkisg>
bb
16:59
maldridge: sorry, I did see a couple of related apps but I haven't tried any of them, as we're using an in-house solution from our ministry of education
16:59
web-based
17:00
<maldridge>
ah, np; I note edubuntu but it seems like its more based torwards student facing stuff
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17:11* alkisg has been restarting epoptes and epoptes-client for half an hour, and the clients are still connected... success! :)
17:11
<vagrantc>
alkisg: epoptes and ltsp made it into jessie-backports
17:11
<alkisg>
Nice!!!
17:11* vagrantc hasn't pushed ldm yet, and there's no real reason to push ltspfs
17:12
<alkisg>
We'll make a new 0.6 release for epoptes, which will be the last one that won't depend on systemd
17:12
<vagrantc>
arguably, the ldm fixes might be worth pushing to jessie directly
17:12
<alkisg>
I'll test and commit the dual-screen issue with ldm
17:12
You might want to wait for that
17:12
<vagrantc>
that's a notable feature
17:14
<alkisg>
gym time!
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17:19
<maldridge>
so epoptes 0.6 is the version to fork, noted
17:40
<lbssousa>
alkisg, I've just tested latest epoptes code here. It seems auto-reconnection is working as expected. I only needed to change my server FQDN (resolved by my local DNS) with its IP address in /etc/default/epoptes-client.
17:42
I only have a lillte suggestion: make socat timeout configurable in /etc/default/epoptes-client. Some users my want to give it a greater or smaller value, depending on their network characteristics.
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18:08
<lbssousa>
work_alkisg, I'll open a bug report to keep track of this.
18:20
<afmorro>
Hello again, quick question. I saw a few of my diskless clientes have a NVidia card on it, will it be possible to use its capabilities?
18:21
<maldridge>
afmorro: if you build your image with the correct drivers, you should be able to use it just fine
18:21
<vagrantc>
you'll need to use LTSP fatclients instead of thinclients to get the most out of it
18:22
<afmorro>
fatclients?
18:22
<vagrantc>
!fatclient | echo afmorro
18:22
<ltsp>
afmorro I do not know about 'fatclient', but I do know about these similar topics: 'fatclients', 'fatclient-printers'
18:22
<vagrantc>
!fatclients | echo afmorro
18:22
<ltsp>
afmorro fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
18:23
<vagrantc>
network booted, network root filesystem, but runs applications locally
18:23
<afmorro>
just got there.
18:23
nice... will give it a go
18:23
but seems I'll need more then one image
18:24
between thing and fat clients.
18:24
<vagrantc>
ah, you might need to write hooks to switch the mesa libraries at boot ...
18:24
<afmorro>
nope, sorry, just found a few arguments... FAT_RAM_THRESHOLD=800
18:24
it can be enough
18:25
<vagrantc>
worked on supporting a mixed nvidia/other environment until it turned out that the noveua drivers actually performed better on that hardware anyways...
18:27
<afmorro>
got it... but its okay. I'm pretty sure it will be easier to manage come pieces in and out, so I can have all of the "commom area" with same specs, and leave more powerfull ones to specific jobs
18:27
some* pieces
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19:13
<alkisg>
(07:19:35 μμ) maldridge: so epoptes 0.6 is the version to fork, noted ==> aren't you using xubuntu?!
19:13
lbssousa: in which case is the timeout not suitable?
19:14
afmorro: this is probably the easiest way to install and maintain ltsp:
19:14
!ltsp-pnp
19:14
<ltsp>
ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
19:22
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I hit this problem with KERNEL_DEVICE: on vfat partitions, the vfat module isn't available to modprobe it, so we can't access the partition in order to update the initramfs
19:22
A solution would be to move the script to the initramfs, where the vfat module is available,
19:23
but then I thought of something else... if the squashfs file system doesn't have /lib/modules/$(uname -r), then I think it's best to copy it from the initramfs, so that at least some of the modules are available
19:23
It will waste some swap space, but it sounds better than having only built-in modules available, what do you say?
19:26
(to sum up, I'm suggesting to cp -r /lib/modules/kernel-version from the initramfs to /rootmnt, from init-bottom/ltsp)
19:30
Hmmm although ntfs seems to work fine, as it's based on fuse...
19:36
<vagrantc>
alkisg: why isn't the module available?
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19:38
<alkisg>
vagrantc: because the kernel was upgraded+purged and then ltsp-update-image was ran
19:39
And the kernel/initrd was loaded locally from some hard disk
19:39
(this is used in raspberry pi and in cases where ipxe doesn't support the card)
19:40
I wonder why it worked when I was testing with Pi, and it didn't work in my tests today with an ipxe-unsupported card...
19:40
vfat in both cases
19:42* alkisg checks if it has to do with 3.2 vs 3.13 kernel...
19:47
<vagrantc>
kernel might have had vfat as a built-in?
19:47
alkisg: why not just add vfat to the initramfs modules?
19:48
<alkisg>
vagrantc: the script currently is in init-ltsp.d
19:48
vfat is already present as an initramfs module
19:48
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so load it from the initramfs :)
19:48
<alkisg>
So I imagine that if I copied the modules dir, it would work
19:49
That's the easy solution, sure
19:49
But if the modules dir is missing, then I imagine that more things won't work
19:49
<vagrantc>
just force-load it or whatever
19:49
<alkisg>
Like mice
19:49
And if we do copy it from the initramfs, they'll work
19:49
It's one `cp` away. Should I do that?
19:49
<vagrantc>
this is just done if it detects the update is needed?
19:50
<alkisg>
There are 2 checks
19:50
The first one is to check if the modules dir for the current version is missing
19:50
That's the one I'm talking about
19:50
In that case, we can make things a bit better by copying the modules dir from the initramfs to the real file system
19:51
So that at least all the modules included in the initramfs, are also available later on when the system continues to boot
19:51
That part has nothing to do with kernel updating
19:51
<vagrantc>
at least in debian, it's not uncommon for the modules dir to be identical, even though the kernel versions are different ... though i think in theory they should be compatible at that point
19:52
<alkisg>
I think modprobe refuses to load modules tagged with a different kernel version
19:52
And it doesn't even find them, it doesn't search in dirs other than $(uname -r)
19:52
<vagrantc>
yes, on debian, "uname -r" will match for multiple kernel versions, when it's ABI compatible.
19:53
the ABI rarely changes during a stable cycle, for example, but security updates and new upstream point releases come out all the time
19:54
<alkisg>
OK, but we're talking about different $(uname -r) now, right? Even if that happens more rarely in debian, it's still affected...
19:57
<vagrantc>
well, i'd rather not have old modules copied into the directory which may have security vulnerabilities
19:58
even if it's ABI compatible, it should only be done if needed.
19:58
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I don't get it. Old kernel without modules (i.e. broken) is better than old kernel with its own modules?
19:58
Ah, here's the difference. CONFIG_FAT_FS was "m" in 3.2, and it's "y" in 3.13.
19:58
Probably due to efi nowadays
20:03
<vagrantc>
alkisg: ok, i didn't quite catch you were talking about when the modules dir is missing entirely only
20:03
<alkisg>
Yup
20:04
<vagrantc>
in that case, i guess it makes sense
20:04
<alkisg>
About the local kernel upgrades, 3.13+ can read vfat and ntfs without the modules dir present, so np there
20:04
Let me see the size of the modules dir in the initramfs...
20:05
$ du -sh 3.19.0-33-generic/
20:05
31M 3.19.0-33-generic/
20:06
Hmmm that's a lot though, swap won't always be available....
20:06
And I'm guessing if I run mount --bind, then initramfs won't be freed
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20:36
<vagrantc>
fwiw, i seem to be using u-boot with rpi2 just fine...
20:37
guess i haven't tried network boot
20:45
<maldridge>
alkisg: I run xubuntu on one of the production clusters, but the LUG's cluster is SystemD-free
20:45
actually all the production clusters run xubuntu, we haven't got the dev cluster stable yet
21:02
<alkisg>
maldridge: why the mention about epoptes 0.6 (==last systemd version) then?
21:03
vagrantc: did you self-compile u-boot or did you download it from somewhere?
21:04
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i added it as a target to the debian source package ...
21:04
alkisg: i haven't even tested video yet, though
21:04
<alkisg>
Ah
21:05
It'd be nice to have an easy way to select between netbooted ltsp client, standalone ltsp client, or normal local boot...
21:05
<vagrantc>
video doesn't seem to work
21:05
<alkisg>
...i'll probably end up writing a menu inside the initramfs for this...
21:07
<vagrantc>
and a custom kernel built with rpi's patches and debian's packaging
21:07
and a really sloppy kernel config ...
21:07
<maldridge>
alkisg: honestly, I'm very curious what it could possibly be using that is systemd related
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21:09
<maldridge>
also, a custom menu inside initramfs is probably going to be easier than working with uboot, I've found its not very intuitive to get things done inside u-boot, and you can make a much nicer menu in initramfs
21:11
<alkisg>
maldridge: about epoptes, we'll be shipping only a systemd service instead of a sysvinit one, and we'll be using systemd-logind for session registration etc
21:11
<maldridge>
ah, any reason not using pam_tally?
21:12
the service one I can refactor easily, but the logind one is going to be much harder to synthesize
21:12
<alkisg>
Not for counting, but for registering the app inside the user session
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21:12
<alkisg>
So that it exits when the user logs out
21:12
non-xorg apps have an issue there
21:13
Currently we're using xprop for this, to test if xorg is still available
21:13
Why would you need to refactor it?
21:13
<maldridge>
ah, yes I've run into that before, wound up setting up a dm hook to pkill -u on exit
21:13
<alkisg>
xubuntu is using systemd...
21:14
<maldridge>
alkisg: because I'm slowly trying to stand up all of ltsp/epoptes on a distro that has no SystemD
21:14
<alkisg>
Which distor?
21:14
*distro
21:14
<maldridge>
Void Linux (init is runit)
21:15
I've got a lot of the base stuff up, now its just down to porting over some of the compiled bits, unfortunately I have more irons in the fire than I can tend at the moment
21:15
<alkisg>
OK, I'll try to make it easy to keep using it without systemd wherever I can
21:17
<maldridge>
many thanks, I'm not oppossed to needing helper software since it would seem sans systemd is rare now, but refactoring C++ is not my strongsuit
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