IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 26 March 2013   (all times are UTC)

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01:27
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: Ick, that's bad.
01:28
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: works great with lightdm and gdm3, though :)
01:29
sbalneav: although the killing backgrounded/screen/tmux processes is a bummer
01:29
dunno how to more clearly isolate processes that shouldn't be running when the session is over.
01:30
<sbalneav>
that's just that "ltsp-cleanup" shell script. we can just not run it.
01:30
<vagrantc>
if you don't run it, the X session never finishes
01:31
<sbalneav>
hmm.
01:31
<vagrantc>
we used to "kill $PPID" long ago ...
01:31
parent-process-id ... which may have left some processes hanging
01:32
but at least logout completed
01:32
gotta implement some of the stuff that was in screen-session.d now ... things like setting the default resolution don't work
01:33
and some sort of homedir mounting for fatclients
01:33
(and localapps, if we manage to re-implement that)
01:35
oh, and dynamically generating the /usr/share/xsessions/*.desktop files
01:36* vagrantc wonders a bit about server selection at login time...
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04:07
<jamesaepp>
how can I test if my tftp server is live?
04:09
nevermind, that is not the issue.
04:10
SO. I boot a client, it gets its IP, mask, DHCP IP and gateway IP and goes no further. Suggestions? I am running a pfsense router with it forwarded to the Host IP with filename ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
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04:11
<muppis>
!quiet_splash
04:11
<ltsp>
quiet_splash: to disable the splash screen in Ubuntu, in order to see any boot error messages, run sudo gedit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default and remove quiet splash plymouth:force-splash vt.handoff=7
04:11
<muppis>
jamesaepp, try that first
04:12
<jamesaepp>
muppis: That is not it, it gets its DHCP acknowledgments and all of that and then goes no further. Just a blinking cursor.
04:16
<muppis>
jamesaepp, those messages, what already see, comes from nic. It loads that that and moves control to kernel so you don't see nothing but blinking cursor by default if it stucks before loading that splash image.
04:16
<jamesaepp>
muppis: Ever since that change in code I am now getting tftp error access violation.
04:17
and internal error (blksize evaluation)
04:18
<muppis>
What is exact error from tftp?
04:18
<jamesaepp>
PXE-T02
04:18
and PXE-E3C
04:21
Again, keep in mind that I have an external DHCP server with forwarded options made.
04:21
<muppis>
E3C means file requested from tftpd was not found so check your tftpd configuration.
04:23
Doesn't really matter as long as dhcpd and tftpd are in same subnet. :)
04:23
<jamesaepp>
they are.
04:24
Where is the tftpd cfg?
04:26
<muppis>
Should be under /etc. Which distro you're running anyway?
04:26
(Gotta get to the work. Back in a hour..)
04:27
<jamesaepp>
:( Ubuntu
04:28
Working late xD
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06:18
<ltspuser_36>
Does anyone knows if HP T200 zero client are supported byLTSP?
06:23
Good night to all!
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11:29alkisg is now known as work_alkisg
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11:31
<andygraybeal>
is everyone using LTSP on 12.04 now? and it is working good with fallback mode?
11:32
is fallback mode the recommended way to run LTSP on 12.04?
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11:34
<work_alkisg>
I think ubuntu recommends unity-2d, which they dropped... personally I recomment gnome-fallback on 12.04, yeah, but generally if you're ok with 10.04 I see little reason to upgrade :D
11:39
<andygraybeal>
work_alkisg, wait, but they are killing desktop support next month in 10.04.
11:40
does this mean that ltsp is also going to need to move to 12.04 becaues it runs gnome-desktop ? or am i really confused.
11:40
i understand that server is still supported until 2015... but i thought that the whole desktop wasn't
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11:51
<andygraybeal>
maybe i'm not understanding something
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12:12
<andygraybeal>
work_alkisg, does that make sense? ubuntu is only going to support the server packages, but not the desktop packages... so the desktop packages will go untouched as far as security is concerned. i don't want to be stuck in a limbo with my desktop, right? ultimately, though i want to follow what you say to do.
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12:34
<andygraybeal>
sorry, i'm back now, if you responded, i would like to hear what you said
12:35
<muppis>
Said:
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13:29
<andygraybeal>
muppis, ?
13:30
<muppis>
Nobody said anything during time what you were offline. :D
13:35
<andygraybeal>
aah thank yuo muppis
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13:41
<ltspuser_86>
HI all
13:42
Got a new install of ubuntu 12.04.1 alternate with LTSP installed
13:42
When the client boots all I get is the busy box
13:42
Any ideas ot pointers will be appreciated.
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13:46
<andygraybeal>
he was patient
13:46
<boom^time>
The impatience of folk looking for free advice is fascinating.
13:47
<elias_a_>
This is specific to this channel.
13:47
<boom^time>
Hah.
13:47
<elias_a_>
I bet people are booting the LTSP system up and using IRC from a client termina.
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13:48
<elias_a_>
boom^time: No, really. This is the worst case nightmare. This channel I mean.
13:48
<boom^time>
Oh I thought you were joking. I see people pop into channels where I've been waiting for days for a reply, they'll ask a question and the good ones will at least give it 15 mins.
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14:30
<Enslaver>
Someone had a q?
14:30
<otwieracz>
q
14:30
q
14:30
I have one.
14:30
<Enslaver>
Shoot
14:31
<elias_a_>
q
14:31
<otwieracz>
Wow! You also have q!
14:31
<Enslaver>
Im in my car driving to work but ill try
14:31
<elias_a_>
I have even more. q q q q
14:31
Enslaver: No, stop.
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14:31
<Enslaver>
Can i buy a vowel?
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14:32
<Enslaver>
Work is 1 min away
14:32
Ask and ill reply from desk
14:33
<elias_a_>
Sigh, North Americans....
14:33
:D
14:33
<Enslaver>
If it helps im south north american
14:37
ok I'm at desk
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14:38
<ltspuser_89>
Hi
14:38
<Enslaver>
low
14:38
<ltspuser_89>
I want to mount a windows share when I login in a ldm session
14:38
<Enslaver>
That's done through your window manager
14:39
<ltspuser_89>
I have tried with pam_mount but pam_mount has problems with ssh connections
14:39
<Enslaver>
i.e. gnome/kde
14:39
<ltspuser_89>
but I don't want to go to all users
14:39
<Enslaver>
try smbmount or smbclient
14:39
<ltspuser_89>
I want to have shares in windows like //server/user
14:39
yes
14:39
I know the command
14:39
<elias_a_>
Enslaver: Ok. Good for you!
14:40
<ltspuser_89>
but I want to know where is the best place to put so it runs on user's login
14:40
<Enslaver>
so you want to mount a remote cifs share in a local users home?
14:40
<ltspuser_89>
yes
14:40
<Enslaver>
well, if i remember correctly you can put it in ~/.Xsession
14:41
<ltspuser_89>
but I have to go to each user's folder right??
14:41
can I put in rc_file??
14:41
<Enslaver>
theres a global Xsession that the ltsp uses
14:41
<ltspuser_89>
where?
14:41
<Enslaver>
/usr/share/ltsp
14:42
<ltspuser_89>
thank you very much
14:42
<Enslaver>
you can put it in a file called /usr/share/ltsp/xinitrc
14:42
<ltspuser_89>
I will try to put it there
14:42
ok
14:42
thks ;)
14:43
<Enslaver>
np
14:44
on the client
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15:03
<ltspuser_89>
only one more question
15:04
in /usr/share/ltsp/xinitrc i have access to the login and password that you insert on greeter?
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15:15
<Enslaver>
if you can script you can write a zenity dialog to read their username then password
15:17
<ltspuser_89>
yes
15:18
but greeter gets the user's password and username
15:18
so it's stored somewhere
15:18
and I can use that to in that moment mount the share
15:18
no??
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15:30
<Enslaver>
no
15:31
That doesn't store the username and password anywhere, it simply authenticates/logs in to the server via ssh
15:31
<ltspuser_89>
ok
15:31
I need to do something auto
15:32
can't be manual
15:32
<Enslaver>
its insecure but you can store their username/password in a file in their home directory and have the client read that
15:34
<ltspuser_89>
yes
15:34
I just wanted to use the login and password that the user provides
15:35
the user authenticates via ssh and then I will mount the share
15:35
only that
15:35
but the greeter is compiled right?
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15:35
<Enslaver>
yes, but it runs bash scripts, i don't think it will export the user/pass to one though
15:40
if your using gnome check out Gigolo and gvfs
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15:46
<ltspuser_89>
ok
15:46
thks
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16:16
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: we need to implement story removal from ltsp.org, a school has asked for it...
16:16
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, and by 'we' you mean 'me'?
16:16
<muppis>
:)
16:16
<alkisg>
I can help in notifying the schools :P
16:17
<Hyperbyte>
I have a question though.
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16:17
<Hyperbyte>
Why do they want to remove themselves from the map?
16:17
<alkisg>
Because they're not using LTSP anymore
16:18
<Hyperbyte>
Did you tell them we don't support Windows?
16:18
<alkisg>
We (ts.sch.gr) do support windows over ltsp too :P
16:19
<Hyperbyte>
I don't.
16:19
If they reinstall LTSP, I can look into their request.
16:19
<Enslaver>
lol
16:19
<alkisg>
I think a few schools started ltsp as an experiment but they gave up on it due to hardware issues (e.g. missing server or gigabit switch)
16:19
Currently only one reported that it's not using ltsp anymore
16:20
But still the map should support removal
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16:22
<alkisg>
andygraybeal: it's like you said, no security updates for desktop components of 10.04.
16:22
On the other hand, in gnome-fallback the panel completely disappears in 10% of the times and noone has taken the time to fix it
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16:22
<alkisg>
So between unsecure components and unusable components, I prefer the first ones myself :D
16:22
<andygraybeal>
okay, i didn't realize there was a comprimise.
16:22
<alkisg>
gnome-fallback has been deprecated upstream too
16:23
<andygraybeal>
at least a compromise like that. between unsecure and unusable.
16:23
<alkisg>
Some people have been focusing on mate instead
16:23
<andygraybeal>
hmm okay
16:23
<alkisg>
Most schools here are using 12.04. But we don't urge schools that use 10.04 to upgrade, because 12.04 has a lot of issues.
16:25
<andygraybeal>
i understand.
16:25
thank you for explaining all of this. http://mate-desktop.org/ gives me hope because i see sbalneav name!!!!!
16:36
okay, thank you alkisg, you have given me something to think about.
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16:38
<sbalneav>
andygraybeal: If seeing my name gives you hope, you're in a lot of trouble :)
16:38
I'm a pretty hopeless case myself :D
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16:53
<alkisg>
sbalneav: does mate have any plans to use gtk3 instead of 2?
16:55
(btw, is that your voice on the first video at mate-desktop.org?!)
16:55
<ogra_>
alkisg, that would mean you nee GL again
16:55
<alkisg>
ogra_: gtk3 needs gl?
16:55
<ogra_>
*need
16:55
<alkisg>
Not gnome. Just gtk3...
16:55
<ogra_>
parts of it make use of it
16:55
at least of the composite stuff
16:56
<alkisg>
That's part of the window management though, not gtk3, right?
16:56
<ogra_>
if you want a gnome2 like desktop that uses gtk3, try cinnamon
16:56
<alkisg>
I.e. lxde, xfce et all will all be able to use gtk3 in the future, won't they?
16:56
cinnamon needs gl
16:56
<ogra_>
its even an option in raring now
16:56
<alkisg>
mate doesn't
16:58
<ogra_>
right, i think highvoltage maintains their panel upstream ... i guess he could tell you about the plans
16:58
<sbalneav>
alkisg: Yep:
16:58
<alkisg>
I knew about sbalneav being upstream for mate, but I didn't know about highvoltage... nice!
16:59
<sbalneav>
http://wiki.mate-desktop.org/roadmap
16:59
Add support for GTK3
16:59
Add support for Wayland
17:00
<ogra_>
heh
17:00
if wayland by then is shipped anywhere :)
17:00
(its only 3 years old yet :P )
17:00
<alkisg>
sbalneav: that's for the core components, so gtk2 libraries won't be loaded at all in the future, right?
17:00
<sbalneav>
Well, it's a roadmap. If the road goes to nowhere... :)
17:00
<ogra_>
yeah
17:00
<sbalneav>
eventually, yeah, that's the plan.
17:01
<alkisg>
Very nice
17:01
<ogra_>
sooner or later you wont find a distro shipping gtk2 ... like it was with gtk1
17:01
<sbalneav>
That's part of the deprecations work I did.
17:01
<ogra_>
(iirc debian and ubuntu have the core libs but nothing else anymore)
17:02
<sbalneav>
exactly.
17:02
<ogra_>
like it is with old versions
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17:03
<sbalneav>
alkisg: Yeah, that's me, btw
17:03
<alkisg>
You sound much younger.. maybe lack of proper beer :D
17:03
ogra_: what do you think ubuntu will recomment for LTSP, for 14.04?
17:03
Unity won't work with LTSP, no gtk2 around... so?
17:03
MIR won't work on the desktop...
17:04
<sbalneav>
My voice is very nasal, and always sounds different on recording equipment than it does in person.
17:04
<ogra_>
alkisg, waht makes you think Mir wont work on the desktop ?
17:04
<alkisg>
ogra_: you said that a couple of weeks ago...
17:04
<ogra_>
Mir will be default on the desktop by 13.10
17:04
<alkisg>
That it's just enough work to make it run on ubuntu touch only
17:05
<ogra_>
probably still shaky by then ...
17:05
<alkisg>
OK, that's good news for MIR. But not good news for LTSP...
17:05
<ogra_>
Mir will be rocksolid on touch by 13.10 ... and will enter the desktop by then
17:05
why not ?
17:05
once it enters the desktop there will also have to be XMir
17:06
which means you can run the X protocol on top of Mir
17:06
that should be enough to get ssh -X to fly
17:06
<alkisg>
Thin clients are already slow, they'll be unusable by introducing yet another layer there
17:06
<ogra_>
LDM_DIRECTX might not work anymore
17:06
its not "another layer"
17:07
it replaces a lot of low level layers
17:07
i doubt you will see any perfomance differecne to todays X
17:07
and thanks to Mir you will be able to use any android device as thin client
17:07
imagine the ouya ;)
17:08
<alkisg>
What do you think will happen with the other desktop environments (LXDE, XFCE, Gnome...) and MIR?
17:08
<ogra_>
a wondeful $99 thin client
17:08
<alkisg>
They'll continue to use plain X?
17:08
<ogra_>
they will use GTKMir or XMir
17:08
GtkMir will get you a performance boost ... while XMir will just be similar to today
17:09
<alkisg>
So the other ubuntu flavors will need to support MIR, in order to be "acceptable"? Or they can choose to ignore MIR completely?
17:09
<ogra_>
we wont drop Xorg from ubuntu :)
17:09
they are free to choose what they like
17:09
like they are today
17:09
but i could imagine the better performance might drive some to Mir
17:09
(and the better HW support)
17:10
while i.e. lubuntu has a touchscreen edition, getting X on a tablet to work is a pain
17:10
<alkisg>
Will MIR run on all current drivers that even lack GL support? E.g. nouveau, via...
17:10
<ogra_>
if you have Mir support you just get that part for free
17:10
currently Mir runs *only* on these drivers on the desktop
17:11
the only accelerated bit is the GLES side (android)
17:11
<alkisg>
So how will they get performance improvements if it doesn't use hw acceleration?
17:11
Currently, X does have hw acceleration...
17:12
<ogra_>
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mir/Spec?action=show&redirect=MirSpec#Mir_Today
17:12
it uses the in lkernel DRM/KMS drivers
17:13
Xorg has multiple layers between the kernel and your display ... these will just be gone
17:14
imagine an Xserver in the kernel ... (thats super inaccurate ... but should give you an idea about the performance difference even when unaccelerated)
17:15
<alkisg>
I don't know... e.g. watching divx video on thin clients is completely smooth now
17:15
With XV gone, I don't think that will be possible anymore
17:15
We'll go to 32bpp instead of the current 12bpp
17:16
And I just hope that scaling will happen client-side... but I doubt that too
17:16
So we'll need a couple of Gbps for watching video on a single client, vs 50 Mbps now...
17:16
<ogra_>
no idea what the story for video playback is atm ...
17:17
i know that there is massive work in gestreamer going on though
17:17
but how much of that is network streamable, i dont know
17:17
<alkisg>
Did you hear anything about VNC and MIR?
17:18
Any new implementations or protocols going on there?
17:18
<ogra_>
no idea, but you could ask in #ubuntu-mir ;)
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17:22
<alkisg>
Thanks :) I do think that reusing Qt and android drivers is a good plan, but I'm afraid that MIR will be problematic for LTSP at least for a few years until it's first published... Let's hope I'm wrong :-/
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17:36
<sbalneav>
Hey, anyone got a good pointer to how to set up an LTSP thin client for testing using KVM?
17:36
I got myself a sexy new laptop, with enough horsepower to run KVM, so I figured I could use that to simulate a thin client.
17:46
<ogra_>
alkisg, what will be hairy is xauth for sure
17:46
alkisg, since XMir will operate rootless
17:46
so tricks like dumping tokens on the root window wont work
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17:59
<sbalneav>
heh, so vagrantc mentioned that out of the 4 dm's that he's tried libpam-sshauth with, 3 work, and kdm crashes.
17:59
So, I go to install kdm in my chroot.
18:00
and the wall of text appears :)
18:00
367 packages to install! :)
18:02
<alkisg>
!kvm
18:02
<ltsp`>
kvm: To boot a fake thin client with kvm: kvm -ctrl-grab -net nic -net user,tftp=/var/lib/tftpboot,bootfile=/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
18:02
<alkisg>
sbalneav: ^
18:05
<sbalneav>
nice!
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18:08* sbalneav watches his chroot chug
18:10
<ltspuser_41>
Hi, could someone tell me if HP T200 ZERO CLIENT is supported
18:16
<sbalneav>
Looking quickly at it, I'd say "not out of the box", but I could be wrong.
18:17
Yup, libpam-sshauth definitely DOES segfault with kdm. That's bad.
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18:18
<sbalneav>
I'm usually pretty anal about making sure I'm checking my buffers and such, wonder what I'm missing...
18:19
<ltspuser_41>
The problem is that T200 communicate via UDP port 53200 to the server. How coud I make the server answer the request?
18:21
<alkisg>
ltspuser_41: zero clients are a completely different technology than netbooted clients with e.g. ltsp
18:21
I don't think you'll find answers here for them
18:21
"Requires HP MultiSeat ms6200 Desktop with Windows® MultiPoint™ Server 2011"
18:22
Try contacting hp support
18:23
<ltspuser_41>
T200 apparently comunicate in USB and needs USB-over-Lan. Could LTS do such a thing? No luck with HP support.
18:24
USERFUL fully supports T200 but I preferr LTSP if possible\
18:24
<alkisg>
No, LTSP is not related at all with zero clients
18:24
You need real clients for LTSP
18:25
<ltspuser_41>
Too bad...thanks for the info.
18:26
<alkisg>
You could e.g. use LTSP to netboot several userful servers, since _they_ are real clients
18:26
But not zero clients.
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18:31
<ltspuser_41>
I will look for alternative solutions... Have a nice day!
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18:55
<highvoltage>
ohi
18:55
alkisg: I'm not involved with upstream mate directly, but I've been in contact with them a lot recently
18:56
alkisg: old gnome stuff is mostly going to be known as 'flashback' now. just finished all the necessary beaurocracy/discussion for that hehe
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19:11
<ogra_>
highvoltage, oh, you took over gnome2 upstream ... alkisg sorry for the confusion ...
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19:15
<highvoltage>
it's ok even the upstream gets confused with everything hehe
19:16
<vagrantc>
there is a fork of gnome2 other than mate?
19:16
<gvy>
:]
19:18
<ogra_>
vagrantc, "flashback"
19:18
which is just gnome2 ....
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19:23
<highvoltage>
technically it's gnome 3 stuff
19:24
and technically it's not a fork
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19:31
<alkisg>
highvoltage: this one? https://live.gnome.org/GnomeFlashback ... does it require GL or LLVMpipe?
19:31
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: version 97 pushed
19:31
login under KDM works for me.
19:34
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: cool!
19:34
sbalneav: with your patches?
19:38
<highvoltage>
alkisg: yes that one, no it doesn't
19:40
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: or kdm just always worked for you?
19:40
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: yeah, it was cacking on something in process args. Theoretically, what I was doing before should have worked, but I got a lot more "paranoid" about the arg handling, and that worked.
19:41
When I first tried it, it was segfaulting. On rev 97, it doesn't
19:41
In fact, I did a remote login under KDM.
19:41
So that's pretty SWEEEET
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19:45
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: this is in libpam-sshauth, or ltsp-pam-examples?
19:46
sbalneav: so, basically, we've got support for GDM3, KDM and LightDM ?
19:58
<andygraybeal>
sbalneav, bro, first time today saw your website about MATE .... first thing, i love yerba mate; i like mine fresh not steeped. and it looks like your doing awesome work.
19:59
http://mate-desktop.org/
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20:05
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: yes. in libpam-sshauth. That's where I pushed up the fixes.
20:06
and yes, I've now tested 4 dm's light, g, k, and slim
20:06
andygraybeal: Thanks. I'm a bit player in both ltsp and mate, but I try my best to be useful.
20:07
<andygraybeal>
sbalneav, is mate mature enough to rollout in my business? alkisg if i stick with straight ubuntu i balance between not having security updates for the desktop package in 10.04 OR i risk having a non-working desktop in 12.04 .... so mate is supposd to save the day, correct?
20:07
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: how do you get slim to work?
20:07
<andygraybeal>
because i start not having desktop updates next month.
20:10
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: i had problems with session selection
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20:23
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: I had to edit the slim.conf file manually
20:24
vagrantc: Hold on, I'll try and find the changes....
20:25
I had to set:
20:25
sessions remote-mate,remote-twm,default
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20:26
<sbalneav>
remote-mate was a little shell script based on the xsession script in the ltsp-pam-examples file I plunked in /usr/bin
20:27
slim doesn't look at any .desktop files in /usr/share/xsession, which is unfortunate, so you have to manually cobble together some stuff.
20:28
andygraybeal: Well, 1.4 which is the current "production" has some issues, but the 1.5 "dev" version (which will become 1.6) is beginning to get pretty stable.
20:28
andygraybeal: I'm planning on switching to it in the coming months.
20:28
<andygraybeal>
okay, sbalneav, i will follow your lead.
20:29
i'm afraid to do anything
20:29
i'm also trying to leave my current job..and i'd hate to leave them in a limbo state
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20:29
<sbalneav>
I'd wait until we release 1.6 officially.
20:29
<andygraybeal>
sbalneav, thank you. i will remember that.
20:29
<sbalneav>
but that'll be in a month or two, rather than months and months
20:30
<alkisg>
sbalneav: doesn't https://live.gnome.org/GnomeFlashback that highvoltage is working on, make more sense than mate? I think that too focuses on getting a UI similar to gnome2, but with gnome3 components, supported upstream...
20:30
(upstream in gnome)
20:30
<sbalneav>
alkisg: Depends on your use case. Gnome's announced that they're not going to be supporting Flashback.
20:30
<alkisg>
sbalneav: flashback or fallback?
20:31
I thought flashback was to be officially supported...
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20:31
<sbalneav>
Maybe fallback. One of the two. Anyway, gnome fallback/flashback doesn't look exactly the same as Gnome 2.
20:32
And besides, people are welcome to run what they want.
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20:32
<sbalneav>
I liked gnome2. I liked the look, I liked how it works.
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20:32
<sbalneav>
it did everything I wanted, but still had a few nagging bugs.
20:32
<andygraybeal>
i just want something stable and supported.. and hopefully future proof :(
20:33
<sbalneav>
Well, nothing is future proof, even if you support it entirely yourself.
20:33
<andygraybeal>
i know i know ;(
20:33
i'm guess i'm whining now
20:33
<alkisg>
It's just a pity when similar efforts are divided, and each team gets half of the development power...
20:33
<sbalneav>
And certainly, I can forsee a day when LTSP itself may not be viable, with all this wayland, etc stuff.
20:34
<andygraybeal>
yea, mir now or something
20:34
it's such a moving target
20:34
<sbalneav>
I think it's a pity when a perfectly good and working desktop gets screwed up because somebody decides they want to more closely ape apple.
20:35
<alkisg>
People will need netbooted computers even when wayland and mir are around...
20:35
That is a pity too :)
20:35
<andygraybeal>
i agree with alkisg, but i don't know the alternatives
20:35
<sbalneav>
I think it's a pity we spend a lot of time now in the linux world rewriting stuff that works, for a new flavour of the month instead of fixing bugs
20:35
I think it's a pity I don't have a steak and a beer in front of me right now.
20:36
Life is suffering. :)
20:36
<highvoltage>
you're an artist, sbalneav
20:36
<sbalneav>
I'm an errand boy, sent by grocery clerks, to collect a bill.
20:36
<alkisg>
...just hold on there until you have a lobster, a beer and a few friends in front of you :)
20:37
<sbalneav>
No, wait... that was a movie :)
20:37
<alkisg>
Life has its good moments too
20:37
<sbalneav>
Life has many good moments, I was being humourously philosophical. :)
20:38
<andygraybeal>
i like your humor scott
20:38
i'm extremely depressed
20:39
<sbalneav>
Don't be. "This, too, shall pass"
20:39
<andygraybeal>
i hope that things work out, i was hoping to move over to 12.04 in a week or so
20:39
i kind of hope to leave my job in a month or less if possible
20:39
<sbalneav>
Leave for what? Another Job?
20:40
<andygraybeal>
scott, yes, i hope
20:41
<sbalneav>
Well, don't leave the one you have until you have the next one lined up :)
20:41
<andygraybeal>
i'm working on it
20:41
<sbalneav>
And besides, remember, you can always help the old job out after-hours when you leave... for a little extra cash on the side.
20:42
Every job I've ever left I kind of "hung around" a bit after I left for a month or two. Usually they were more than happy to pay for some of my time. I didn't gouge, but I did make some beer money.
20:43
<andygraybeal>
true :)
20:43
i just want to make the right decision.. even changing the desktop seems to another interface seems like a bad decision :(
20:43
if i could have things look just like they look now in 10.04, that would be awesome and less painful for everyone.
20:43
<sbalneav>
That's why I'm moving to mate.
20:44
Our users are very "change averse"
20:44
so, I'd like to get LTSP to the point, in the next month or so, where pam logins and USB sticks work.
20:44
And have MATE work.
20:45
Then, the transition will be more or less "seamless" for my users.
20:46
<vagrantc>
yay.
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21:01
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: It work for you?
21:02
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: won't have a chance to test till later
21:02
sbalneav: was cheering on seamless transitions
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21:19
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: but did upload a patched package to http://cascadia.debian.net/~vagrant/debian/pool/main/libp/libpam-sshauth/
21:20
<sbalneav>
Once we're satisfied it works, should we bump to 0.4?
21:20
or 0.3.1?
21:22
<vagrantc>
so the ssh key support would be added with scripts? not in libpam-sshauth itself?
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21:23
<sbalneav>
Ah, well that'll be 0.4 then.
21:24
yeah, combo of both.
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23:08
<gbaman>
heres a question for you guya, is LTSP fat client without netbooting (OS installed on machine) possible?
23:09
but still having ease of adding new users, login screen and auto mounting of their server hosted network drive
23:09
<laurense>
i don't think if you can still call it an ltsp fat client
23:10
or just an active directory like setup
23:10
<gbaman>
i dont really mind what it is called
23:10
i just need a setup like that
23:11
trying to do it for raspberry pis, want to be able to log onto a network based account and it auto mount their home directory
23:11
<vagrantc>
gbaman: it is possible, it takes some hacking.
23:12
<gbaman>
just to make it even more complicated, it is as i said, on a raspberry pi, which is running a port of debian
23:12
:)
23:12
so far from my research, it is looking crazy complicated
23:13
while with windows, it is just AD and a roaming profile
23:13
and i love LTSPs ease of use (after it is set up) for adding new users
23:14
<vagrantc>
it isn't all that difficult
23:14
<gbaman>
and doing things like changing user passwords
23:14
<vagrantc>
you could also run the RPI as an actual thin client
23:14
<gbaman>
na, want it as a normal client
23:15
<vagrantc>
"normal" client?
23:15
<gbaman>
it is for a school and the pupils will be hacking away with stuff like the GPIO pins
23:15
so needs to be the local OS
23:15
<vagrantc>
sure
23:16
well, it's all possible, it just requires knowhow and experimentation ... nothing out of the box
23:16
<gbaman>
we may also do LTSP normal thin clients with them for other stuff
23:16
it is mainly the "knowhow" that i lack
23:16
i am quite new to linux based stuff
23:17
any ideas on how to get this "knowhow"? or anyone that would know how to do it?
23:26
?
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23:29
<vagrantc>
gbaman: that's a bit broad of a question... basically you just need to install the ltsp-client package, and then configure /etc/lts.conf, and set up /etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts with the host keys of your server...
23:30
only real way i know to get knowhow is to start trying things ...
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23:34
<gbaman>
i have no clue where to start...
23:34
*sigh* why is there no LTSP forums...
23:35
<sbalneav>
gbaman: because we have an LTSP irc channel.
23:36
<vagrantc>
gbaman: i'd recommend learning how to do typical LTSP thin clients on more conventional hardware ... no sense trying to fly before you can walk.
23:37
<gbaman>
i already have set up an LTSP server (with a DHCP proxy server) and have got working with fat and thin clients
23:38
and already tested clients booting from it, still love tha bit
23:39
<vagrantc>
gbaman: i'd start by installing the ltsp-client package on your RPI, then.
23:39
gbaman: and whatever packages you want to run locally.
23:39
i.e. iceweasel, libreoffice, whatever
23:40
gbaman: you'll need a desktop environment of some kind ... maybe lxde or xfce4
23:40
gbaman: the magic is what to tell it at boot to behave like a fatclient.
23:40
gbaman: but that's a starting point
23:41
<gbaman>
just to clarify, the raspberry pi cant pxe boot
23:42* vagrantc helped get the 3.2 kernel working on the rpi
23:42
<vagrantc>
for raspbian, anyways
23:43
<gbaman>
ah, well in that case
23:43
you never know with people if they know about the raspberry pi :)
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23:43
<gbaman>
i still need a way for the pi to log in
23:44
<vagrantc>
i got LTSP booting on it loading the kernel and initrd off the sd card... though have yet to document it or check with more recent kernels
23:44
<gbaman>
to the LTSP server
23:44
<vagrantc>
gbaman: well, i've described the packages you need to install ...
23:44
<gbaman>
oops, read it wrong, sorry
23:45
I am able to start with rasbian, right?
23:45
because we will want to be able to easily update the SD card images each time the foundation release new images
23:46
so just add on some stuff to their images if possible
23:46
<vagrantc>
installing ltsp-client should basically be all you need to do
23:46
then
23:47
<gbaman>
didnt know there was a ltsp-client package
23:47
<vagrantc>
this is only the third time i've mentioned it :P
23:47
<gbaman>
:)
23:47
i am slow :)
23:48
ok, these are in the rasbian repo?
23:48
not at a pi right now
23:48
<vagrantc>
yes
23:49
you could also check at http://packages.debian.org/PACKAGE and there's a pretty good chance it's also available on raspbian
23:49
for wheezy
23:50
since raspbian is a rebuild of debian wheezy
23:50
gbaman: there's also a #raspbian channel on freenode
23:50
<gbaman>
so all i need to do is grab those
23:50
i know, already asked on the raspberry pi forums and got nothing useful
23:51
<vagrantc>
well, from a booted raspberry pi, sudo apt-get install ltsp-client
23:51
and then a few tweaks to the boot configuration
23:51
adding to bootargs: init=/sbin/init-ltsp
23:51
<gbaman>
to get it to go to login screen
23:52
<vagrantc>
then you'll need to add the server's ssh keys to /etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts and set SERVER=xx.xx.xx.xx and LTSP_FATCLIENT=true in /etc/lts.conf
23:53
think that's about it
23:53
<gbaman>
does the LTSP server need to any files for arm?
23:54
or any extra config files?
23:55
<vagrantc>
you'll want ldm-server installed on it
23:56
<gbaman>
should i not already have it?
23:56
i have run fat clients before off it
23:56
<vagrantc>
oh yeah, it should be good then
23:57
never hurts to double-check :)
23:58
<gbaman>
found the package in the debian repo, does have this under it
23:58
DO NOT install this package on a regular machine, it is intended only for installation inside a LTSP client file system
23:58
erm
23:58
<vagrantc>
the version in wheezy should be safe.
23:59
it used to be more destructive...
23:59
<gbaman>
but is available for arm, so all good :)
23:59
it is classed as testing for wheezy
23:59
<vagrantc>
yes, wheezy is still in development for a bit longer