IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 12 December 2015   (all times are UTC)

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07:16* gehidore pokes at work_alkisg
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09:11
<alkisg>
gehidore: hello
09:12
Any btrfs volume will do, there's no need to use an ltsp image
09:12
Justmkfs.btrfs and mkdir /usr somewhere
09:12
Or use your own /, /home, whatever you already have as btrfs
09:41
Nice, I was not able to reproduce it on ubuntu 14.04!
09:41
If it's specific to 16.04, no problem, it can be solved there...
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13:28
<work_alkisg>
Heh. It turns out it's indeed something about the image...
13:29
Maybe the encasulated MBR
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13:45
<alkisg>
Hi huafu
13:48
!vnc-dide
13:48
<ltsp`>
vnc-dide: To share your screen with me, run this: sudo apt-get --yes install x11vnc; x11vnc -connect srv1-dide.ioa.sch.gr - this is a reverse connection, it doesn't need port forwarding etc.
13:50
<huafu>
alekisg: thanks!
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13:50
<quinox>
j
13:52
<alkisg>
huafu: so, the problem is that qemu-arm-static is not copied
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13:53
<alkisg>
It's automatically copied by ltsp normally
13:53
Ah, do another vnc so that I check your ltsp version
13:53
<huafu>
alkisg: you rocks! but you should put this in the wiki page
13:53
<alkisg>
huafu: you followed a step wrong
13:53
I don't know which one
13:54
The copy won't persist if you run ltsp-build-client, it will be deleted, it's not a solution
13:54
Run another vnc so that I check what you did wrong
14:02
huafu: ping me when it stops
14:03
<huafu>
alkisg, you rocks, it passed now! So I have to figure out which of my extra option make it fail
14:03
<alkisg>
I just copied the conf file and the command from the wiki page :) I don't know what part you did wrong...
14:03
OK, glad to help, go on!
14:03
<huafu>
sorry mate!
14:03
thanks a lot!
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15:45
<huafu>
work_alkisg, does the firmware version matters in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/RaspberryPi#Preparing_the_folder_for_the_client_SD_cards
15:45
there you are using 4.1.10, but in the chroot env it is installing 4.2.xxx - should I install corresponding version in the chroot env?
16:36work_alkisg is now known as alkisg
16:37
<alkisg>
huafu: in that wiki page I don't mention to install the firmware in the chroot anywhere
16:37
It's needed for the bootloader, i.e. in the sd card, not in the chroot
16:37
You can download 4.2 I believe, yes
16:38
For pi-specific questions, you should be asking in #raspberrypi, for ltsp-specific questions, here. I.e. I don't know all the details about Pis, I just made sure the ltsp side works.
16:38
<huafu>
alkisg, yes I know, but I meant, the build-client does install linux-image-4.2.10-1014... anyway, I solved my issue, thanks again
16:41
<alkisg>
If needed, you can ping me to put 4.3 in the ppa: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-raspi2/4.3.0-1006.6
16:42
In 4.5 I've read that finally 3d will work for rpi2
16:49
https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/raspberrypi2-firmware ==> no other firmware version yet
17:00
<huafu>
wow 3d! nice
17:01
well I would not have use of it... or would this improve rendering under the mate desktop with compiz?
17:01
<alkisg>
If they do manage to have 3d and 2d and video acceleration with the GPU, then I'll start liking rpi2 :)
17:01
2d gets accelerated by using the gallium/3d code
17:02
Also note that gnome-flashback is a nice alternative to mate, which is much closer to upstream gnome
17:03
<huafu>
why would one prefer flashback over mate?
17:03
sorry, might be a stupid question, but I am looking for good balance between light software and user friendiness ;-)
17:03
<alkisg>
Gnome is developed by paid developers
17:04
Mate is developed by hobbyists that continue the old work of gnome developers
17:04
I prefer gnome to mate, and flashback is a thin 2d layer over gnome
17:05
I would be using gnome if all my clients supported 3d... so now that I need 2d, I'm using gnome-flashback
17:05
<huafu>
I'll have to do some tests and choose the less ressource consuming
17:06
<alkisg>
It's about the same, and with ltsp you can very easily cut it down by disabling a lot of services, system or session wide
17:06
<huafu>
yeah, I also need to do some research about improving ltsp clients
17:07
see everything I can disable, especially the animations lol. but first, create some fat clients and test them (what I am doing now)
17:08
<alkisg>
what animations? and why would you disable them in fat clients?
17:09
I didn't ever have to disable anything in gnome-flashback... except of course services like ubuntuone, zeitgeist etc
17:10
<huafu>
disable animations in THIN clients, especially the one with the top and bottom bars at the session opening
17:10
sounds like.... I am going to test gnome-flashback :D
17:10
<alkisg>
I don't see any animation in the top and bottom panel in gnome-flashback
17:11
<huafu>
in mate ;-)
17:11
<alkisg>
Thin clients need to get replaced by fat clients :D
17:12
<huafu>
well I am running on very old computers, last time I tried fat clients, they were taking forever to boot, and then they were extremely slow
17:12
so I am trying again, hoping that I did a mistake last time, since now I know a bit more about how all this work
17:13
<alkisg>
client ram/cpu?
17:13
and server ram/cpu?
17:13
and network, gigabit or not?
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17:13
<alkisg>
and how many clients?
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17:16
<huafu>
server: 4Gb (soon 8), 3.10GHz (dual core)
17:17
clients: for now 2 RPi2, 1 P4 laptop with about 1Gb RAM, 2 HP Compaq IDK the CPU, but doesn't support PAE and I think P2 or P3
17:18
hmmmm... it says P4 on the box outside but I do not believe it :D
17:19* alkisg hasn't seen a p4 without pae
17:20
<alkisg>
I think they do exist though
17:20
The P4's are usually better as fat clients, with 1 gb ram
17:20
<huafu>
alkisg, yeah that is why I do not believe what the sticker on the box says :D
17:20
<alkisg>
p2 and p3 are better as thins
17:20
rpi2... it depends... it's also armhf and some programs are not working well there or are not available, so sometimes it's better to use them as thins
17:21
<huafu>
my ethernet card for ltsp is 1Gb, the one for internet is 100Mb but I think this is not important since my internet connection is under 100 lol
17:21
<alkisg>
but if the network is only 100mbps, or the server is slow, it might be worth it to use them as fats
17:21
check also your lan with epoptes
17:21
!epoptes
17:21
<ltsp`>
epoptes: Epoptes is a computer lab administration and monitoring tool. It works on Ubuntu and Debian based labs with LTSP or non-LTSP servers, thin and fat clients, standalone workstations, NX clients etc. More info: http://www.epoptes.org
17:21
<alkisg>
!lan-benchmark
17:21
<ltsp`>
lan-benchmark: If you have a mixed-speed network (gigabit server<=>switch connection, and 100 Mbits/sec clients<=>switch connections), then you might suffer from the !flow-control issue. To benchmark your LAN with epoptes, see http://www.epoptes.org/documentation/lan-benchmark
17:21
<huafu>
the network is held by a switch on which the server and all clients are plugged
17:22
ok, benchmarking now, thanks for the tip!
17:23* alkisg waves, later...
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17:34
<gehidore>
work_alkisg: for proper comparison i wantedto use the same variables which included the image, seems you've worked it out though
17:38
<huafu>
work_alkisg, can't run the benchmark, it is telling me that I need to run epoptes-client on the client with root privilege, but when I run it it just does nothing and exit directly
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17:47
<huafu>
arg, forget me I guess it's because I did not install epoptes-client in the chroot... so it needs to run for each user on the server and as root on the thin clients?
17:50
rebooting (adding 4Gb of RAM to server while no client connected :)
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17:57
<huafu>
ok back
18:07
work_alkisg, ok now I can run the benchmark but at the end it stays on processing data forever
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18:51
<huafu>
work_alkisg, found the issue, the clients needs iperf too
18:55
work_alkisg, so yeah, the benchmark clearly shows that the server nic is used only at 100Mbps, and not the expect 1G
18:56
tho I disabled flow control with the help of your script (my NIC uses r8169 which doesn't have any option to disable flow control thru the module)
18:58
maybe the switch?
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19:01
<huafu>
OMG, my switch is a 100 one :(
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20:00
<alkisg>
gehidore: nah, I haven't figured it out; i just discovered that it happens on some images but not on all of them
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20:00
<alkisg>
huafu: then try to make more of your clients fat :)
20:01
<huafu>
alexxtasi, wait, slow net would have better perf with fat clients?
20:01
when it launch an app it takes forever, isn
20:01
...isn't it because it is downloading it from nbd?
20:01
<alkisg>
alexxtasi is a different person :)
20:02
<huafu>
ooops, alexxtasi sorry, yup just saw that :/
20:02
<alkisg>
When a fat client launches firefox, it needs to download e.g. 50 mb from the server
20:03
That takes a lot of seconds, ok
20:03
But then it can watch youtube etc at just 1 mbps
20:03
<alexxtasi>
I am someone else ;-)
20:03
<huafu>
alexxtasi, yes sorry, just used completion and didn't check what it completed with ;-)
20:03
<alkisg>
While on thins, launching firefox would need only a few mbps, and then watching videos would need 2.5 gbps per client
20:04
so yup fats behave better on 100 mbps network
20:04
You can also use local cache
20:04
!local-boot
20:04
<ltsp`>
local-boot: If you want LTSP fat clients on a low-speed network, you can put i386.img on e.g. C:\Boot\LTSP\i386.img and use this command line in pxelinux.cfg: APPEND ro initrd=ltsp/i386/initrd.img init=/sbin/init-ltsp root=/dev/sda1 rootflags=ro loop=/Boot/LTSP/i386.img; IPAPPEND 3
20:04
<huafu>
alkisg, ok but last time I tried, it was making the client almost unusable, at the point I did not even wait for it to open firefox totally lol
20:04
<alkisg>
For p4 with 1 gb ram?
20:05
Or for p2 with 256 mb ram?
20:05
If the client starts to use swap, then don't use it as fat
20:05
<huafu>
p4 which is actually 1.5Gb ram!
20:05
<alkisg>
p4 should be able to launch firefox in under 20 seconds
20:05
If it doesn't, you did something wrong
20:05
<huafu>
ok so I did something wrong :D
20:06
<gehidore>
mine did in testing on 64bit p4 over gigabit
20:07
<huafu>
alkisg, FYI I fixed my issue with your soft (epoptes) and so now I can see the machines' hw
20:07
<alkisg>
What issue, epoptes not being installed in the chroot?
20:07
<huafu>
Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz - RAM 1500 MB
20:07
<alkisg>
You need to read the installation pages more carefully :D
20:08
<huafu>
alkisg, well I don't know how I missed that but yeah, I basically started LTSP 3 days ago, heard about it but that's all until 3 days ago when I began to hack around lol
20:09
<alkisg>
You're very good at it
20:09
<huafu>
well, aparently not so good :p
20:09
<alkisg>
I'm just saying that those 2 issues you mentioned were already in the installation pages, raspberry + epoptes.org/installation
20:10
<huafu>
yup, I guess I am trying to do too much at the same time, totally missed the epoptes one
20:10
btw, what means epoptes in greek?
20:10
arg, I'll ask google sorry
20:11
<alkisg>
overseer
20:11
<huafu>
haha, google detects it is greek, but translates with the same word in english or french
20:11
ok makes sense, thanks ;-)
20:12
<alkisg>
(mentioned in epoptes.org :))
20:12
(we even have an mp3 for how to pronounce it :D)
20:14
<huafu>
haha
20:14
ok so I am going to make a fat client again :D
20:18
<alkisg>
!ltsp-pnp
20:18
<ltsp`>
ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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20:20
<huafu>
alkisg, yup I tried to follow that 3 times and none of the clients where booting totally
20:21
it's at that point actually that I realized my P4 were not handling PAE :/
20:21
<alkisg>
...ah I forgot that you always hit issues while following my wiki pages :P :D
20:21
Which p4 is that?
20:21
All p4 here do support pae
20:21
<huafu>
alkisg, didn't meant that at all, and your wiki pages are very useful!
20:22
<alkisg>
I've tried with P4 @ 1.7, 2.4, 2.8, 3.0 etc
20:22
<huafu>
alkisg, well, IDK, but it was showing a message like "cannot boot, your cpu doesn't have PAE, try to set forcepae option"
20:23
<alkisg>
It's not a pentium M, is it?
20:23
<huafu>
and with forcepae it continues but then some other errors or just hang forever
20:23
<alkisg>
You can install 12.04 with the generic kernel
20:23
<huafu>
in epoptes it says Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz
20:23
<alkisg>
Those support non-pae
20:24
right click -> open terminal => root, locally
20:24
less /proc/cpuinfo
20:24
Check the flags there for pae etc
20:24
# grep pae /proc/cpuinfo
20:24
flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae...
20:25
<huafu>
OMG, there is PAE there
20:25
<alkisg>
How did it boot now if it doesn't support pae? Which distro/version/kernel is in the chroot?
20:25
<huafu>
yeah it is also what I asked myself
20:25
<alkisg>
uname -a in the client
20:26
...or uname -r
20:26
<huafu>
Linux ltsp19 3.13.0-71-generic #114-Ubuntu SMP Tue Dec 1 02:35:20 UTC 2015 i686 i686 i686 GNU/Linux
20:26
but it does work now as thin
20:26
<alkisg>
Until the clients reach LDM, the login screen, it's the same as thin or as fat
20:26
The difference is after login
20:26
<huafu>
I might have done quite a mess with fat client, I keep reading about fat clients because I don't get why it has not worked before
20:27
<alkisg>
So it's not related to the kernel at all
20:27
<huafu>
ok, lemme build a fat client
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20:51
<huafu>
/msg NickServ identify coolinux
20:51
ok so I have to change my pass now :p
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20:56
<huafu_>
OMG, nice that I used a shit password :p
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21:32
<huafu_>
work_alkisg, ok so now it does boot and fast
21:32
I land on the ldm login
21:33
but then when I try to login it show the spinner cursor for some seconds and finally restart x (well the screen becomes black with the console cursor on top left and then it goes back on the login screen
21:33
will look on how to read logs
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21:58
<huafu>
work_alkisg, thanks again for all the help. I am going to bed now, too tired and so unproductive at that point...
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