IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 30 July 2010   (all times are UTC)

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06:03
<wurzzero>
Good morning!
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10:13
<vagrantc>
Gadi: aha!
10:14
Gadi: any comments on http://bugs.debian.org/587900 ?
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10:36
<vagrantc>
stgraber, Gadi: plan to tag ltsp-trunk today ...
10:37
any pending commits, get em in soonish :)
11:05
<knipwim>
vagrantc: i have a gentoo commit i'd like to include
11:05
in how many hours are you going to tag?
11:09
<vagrantc>
knipwim: was hoping to soon ... but does gentoo even use the released version? :)
11:13* vagrantc is pretty clueless about gentoo processes
11:14
<vagrantc>
knipwim: how's the gentoo port going?
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11:17
<vagrantc>
might be later this evening, anyways...
11:18
alkisg: plan to tag ltsp-trunk today ... any issues you'd like committed/
11:18
?
11:19
alkisg: apparently, the sleep included with debian's initramfs doesn't support partial seconds ...
11:19
alkisg: you've got some hooks in the udhcpc script that call "sleep 0.1"
11:19
i guess we could include /usr/bin/sleep and hard-code a path to sleep...
11:19
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I thought I saw a debian bug about it, *closed fixed*
11:20
vagrantc: stgraber put those, I just left them there
11:20
<vagrantc>
hm.
11:20
<alkisg>
It's not in the right place anyway
11:20
<vagrantc>
we've currently worked around it by changing it to sleep 1
11:20
<alkisg>
It should be in local-top I think, not in init-premount
11:21
(man initramfs-tools describes the stages, I just haven't read that for a long time)
11:21
<vagrantc>
local-top doesn't get called from ltsp_nbd or nfs
11:21
<alkisg>
stgraber put it in init-premount exactly to avoid changing ltsp_nbd
11:21
I think we should change ltsp_nbd and call it, if udhcpc is installed
11:21
Now it bumps into a lot of initialization related problems
11:22
<vagrantc>
well, it's nice for it to work for nfs scripts too, though
11:22
<alkisg>
E.g. eth not initialized yet etc
11:22
OK, but still, we could put a symlink to it in nfs-top or something like that
11:22
Right now it's called too early
11:23* alkisg reads at the initramfs-tools manpage..
11:24
<alkisg>
local/nfs-top or local/nfs-premount, not sure which one should be more appropriate
11:24
vagrantc: did you commit Peter's change?
11:25
<vagrantc>
alkisg: the sleep change i didn't commit upstream
11:25
but the other stuff i did
11:26
<alkisg>
Nice. Busybox in sid still doesn't support decimals?
11:26
(or however they're called...)
11:28
<vagrantc>
nope!
11:28
<alkisg>
vagrantc: urm. It looks like it doesn't support it here either, so the 0.1 => 1 change probably needs to go upstream...
11:28
<vagrantc>
suppose could file a wishlist bug
11:29
ah, so much the better.
11:29
<alkisg>
Nah, the "sleeps" there are bad anyway
11:29
<vagrantc>
well, simpler
11:29
<alkisg>
I think if we move it in a later init stage, it won't be needed at all
11:30
<vagrantc>
i don't know that you can move it much later and have it available generally
11:30
<alkisg>
I think it's doable, as long as it's alphabetically before nfs-top etc... but I'm not sure
11:31
<vagrantc>
it's not a sort-order issue ... some directories aren't called from the nfs scripts, for example.
11:32
<alkisg>
vagrantc: ah, I just tried it in a client initramfs, it works fine
11:32
<vagrantc>
where did you put it?
11:32
the sleep 0.1 ?
11:32
<alkisg>
I don't know what ubuntu does to it's initramfs - `busybox sleep 0.1` doesn't work, while `sleep 0.1` in break=mount works
11:32
<vagrantc>
maybe it's using /bin/sleep ?
11:32
<alkisg>
*I mean busybox sleep outside of the chroot, on the server,
11:33
while busybox sleep 0.1 on break=mount works fine
11:33
<vagrantc>
oh
11:33
that's... ummm... confusing.
11:33
<alkisg>
I believe I saw a fixed bug in busybox about it, so not sure what's the problem - maybe the compile flags?
11:33
There's another version in the initramfs and another in a normal ubuntu system
11:33
<vagrantc>
ah.
11:34
<alkisg>
(busybox-static, busybox-initramfs etc etc not sure about the details)
11:34
<vagrantc>
busybox-initramfs
11:34
<alkisg>
The problem with the current place for udhcpc is that it's broken for quite a lot of newer systems
11:35
<vagrantc>
still use klibc/ipconfig in debian
11:36
though the udhcpc hooks do kick in
11:36
<alkisg>
In many core 2 duo clients nbd can't connect because the card is not properly initialized (I assume because it's too early - if I put a break=mount, wait 2 secs, and then press ctrl+d, it boots)
11:36
<vagrantc>
well, if we can figure where to put it that works better for both debian and ubuntu, we're set :)
11:36* alkisg is using IPAPPEND 3 because stgraber put a clientid there which doesn't work for cisco routers :-/
11:37
<alkisg>
(to prevent duplicate leases in dhcpd)
11:37
<vagrantc>
looks like i won't manage to upload for a few hours anyways
11:37
<alkisg>
I won't have time to work on this neither today nor in the next few days, so don't hold back on my account...
11:38
<vagrantc>
ah, sure.
11:38
worse case is i leave it where it is with the sleep 0.1 patch
11:38
<alkisg>
It will need a lot of testing anyway, that's why I haven't even started it yet
11:38
Sounds good to me
11:38
<vagrantc>
could just change it to "true"
11:38
which will sort of act like a very brief sleep
11:38
<alkisg>
It won't leave the cpu free for other upstart scripts
11:39
sleep 1 would be better, I think
11:39
(udev etc)
11:40
vagrantc: ah, could you explain 1764. ltsp-chroot: fix argument processing for --arch and --base. ?
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11:40
<Gadi>
is the busybox in the initramfs compiled against glibc? (I wonder if that is why there is always that warning on boot ...)
11:41
<alkisg>
Gadi, no idea, but sleep 0.1 works in the ubuntu initramfs busybox...
11:41
<vagrantc>
alkisg: it would fail with an error message somewhat like: unknown directory /opt/ltsp/'armel'
11:41
alkisg: so i had to trim off the '
11:42
hopefully people aren't crazy enough to include ' in their directory names...
11:42
<alkisg>
vagrantc: hmmm ok but that makes it impossible to have a /opt/ltsp/vagrantc's-chroot :P
11:42
Heh
11:42
OK ok
11:43
Shouldn't 1765 be applied to ltsp-update-image as well?
11:43
<vagrantc>
alkisg: maybe so
11:43
alkisg: i don't use it much ... soo ...
11:44
<alkisg>
...heh, well, since you already started committing stuff I thought I'd ask that too :D
11:44
OK should I do it?
11:45
<vagrantc>
alkisg: sure, go for it
11:45
<alkisg>
ok, in 10'.
11:47
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so you're ltsp-chroot didn't have the ' when you used --arch ?
11:48
i guess i could make the sed more particular ... sed -e "s,/',/,g" -e "s,'$,,g"
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12:13
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I copied the --arch and --base code from ltsp-update-image without testing it
12:13
So any changes there would better go to both of those files..
12:13
<vagrantc>
ugh... we should put them somewhere that they both can use...
12:14
<alkisg>
Yeah a little refactoring would be nice
12:14
Although not all the parameters are in common
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12:18
<[GuS]>
Hi guys, i have a question: in the company i work still uses ltsp4.2 (gentoo). Now we have customers that wants to use a usb scanner connected to a thin client. Which package from here i need to so so? http://ltsp.mirrors.tds.net/pub/ltsp/ltsp-4.2/ or from somewhere else?
12:19* vagrantc sings a sad, sad song about ltsp 4.x
12:19* vagrantc really heads to lunch
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12:43
<[GuS]>
lol
12:54* alkisg thinks LTSP 4.2 was abandoned somewhere in the Mesozoic period...
12:58
<[GuS]>
alkisg: lol
12:58
damn :(
12:58
no help then :(
12:58
ltsp5 is far away to be stable in gentoo...
12:58
<alkisg>
Yeah ltsp 4.2 help is scarce at best
12:58
<[GuS]>
alkisg: indeed.
12:59
<Gadi>
[GuS]: if it is the latest 4.2, I believe there was an lts.conf param like XINETD_SERVICES = "saned" or some such
12:59
<johnny>
[GuS], the problem here is that we have no good solution for initramfs
12:59
actually ltsp on gentoo works fine except for that part
12:59
now that dracut for gentoo should be complete by end of summer
12:59
we should have a one click install
13:00
stable is almost meaningless in gentoo anyways..
13:00
for ltsp anyways
13:00
because we curate the package list
13:00
<Gadi>
[GuS]: see: http://www.mail-archive.com/ltsp-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net/msg26734.html
13:00
<[GuS]>
johnny: thanks for the info
13:01
<johnny>
atm the annoying part of ltsp gentoo is having to manually set the network cards
13:01
because genkernel is no good
13:01
but as i mentioned, dracut will take care of that
13:01
<[GuS]>
Gadi: ohh great, i was searching a lot but didnt found that
13:01
johnny: well, i had troubles even generating the client
13:02
which is posted in the bug report
13:02
<johnny>
ah.. i'll have knipwim look at that
13:02
we were using funtoo stages because they were more up to date
13:02
but i think we're going to switch back
13:02
<[GuS]>
which, i believe was cause of my locale
13:02
<johnny>
as hey changed the tar compression format
13:02
<[GuS]>
yep
13:02
<johnny>
ah.. a multilang person to test with ;)
13:02
<[GuS]>
i've read that on the bug report
13:02
johnny: haha
13:02
<johnny>
well i'd appreciate if you could idle here
13:02
<[GuS]>
yeah.. from Argentina :P
13:03
<johnny>
so you can talk to knipwim
13:03
<[GuS]>
ok, i will, since we are fighting in the company witgh the old ltsp
13:03
and we want to upgrade
13:03
<johnny>
i wrote the initial code, but don't have a powerful enough laptop to actually keep using it (still!!!)
13:03
so i make knipwim do the heavy lifting :) hehe
13:04
so yes, we'll hopefully get you fixed up soon then
13:04
i'm wondering if we should setup a sourceforge project..
13:04
i wonder how big of files they let you post, if iso size, then we could just allow people to download a working stage
13:05
i think they let you do that..
13:05
<[GuS]>
:)
13:05
well, i will try these days to back on the test and see if i can make some progress installing it
13:05
<johnny>
we'll help you get it together
13:05
<[GuS]>
thanks :)
13:06
<johnny>
i think sourceforge might be the way to go for the source snaps and the stage
13:06
<[GuS]>
this was my start http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=177580#c95
13:06
well, in fact http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=177580#c91
13:07
so, the other guy from the same company found that supposed is a locale thing: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=177580#c98
13:08
so we are stuck in there
13:08
<knipwim>
i'm looking at the bug now
13:08
<[GuS]>
=)
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13:09
<alkisg>
johnny: http://sourceforge.net/projects/knoppel/files/ ==> 725 MB
13:10
(greek knoppix)
13:11
<knipwim>
johnny: what problem is solved by maintaining other stage files?
13:12
ah
13:12
you mean working client installs
13:25
<wurzzero>
Hi..
13:25
I'm having problems to configure my ltsp server and i did some confgiurations to work, so decided to explain the hole situation to see if anyone has another to do this confs...
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13:26
<wurzzero>
i paste the problems in http://pastebin.com/Fdeau51Q
13:26
i thought it's better to read...
13:27
but i can paste here to...
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13:55
<wurzzero>
Hi, vagrantc... i'm having problems configuring ssh with another port and yesterday you told me to use SSH_OVERRIDE_PORT, but in my tests it only works with 'SCREEN_XX=ldm'
13:56
i paste a resume of the problem here http://pastebin.com/Fdeau51Q
13:58
<vagrantc>
i'm leaving in just a second
13:59
<wurzzero>
all right...
14:01
<[GuS]>
ok, finally i've talk to my partnert at work and after many modifications we reach to the ldm login at the client, where the characters are being displayed as squares. This could be a locale problem?
14:03
<otavio>
vagrantc:
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14:11
<johnny>
[GuS], try with plain..
14:11
then you'll know
14:11
<[GuS]>
johnny: what do you mean by plain?
14:11
<johnny>
a plain locale
14:11
like C
14:11
<[GuS]>
ahh ok
14:11
<johnny>
just make it work first
14:12
then try making it work with your locale
14:16
<wurzzero>
i'm using Ubuntu 10.04 i386 and set the autologin for ldm, but when i want to exit the client get in a loop and don't turn off.
14:17
anyone know how to fix this?
14:27
<knipwim>
[GuS]: i found that when you get squares, you're missing fonts in the client environment
14:28
<[GuS]>
knipwim: ahh ok
14:28
nice tip
14:29
<knipwim>
i installed dejavu on the client
14:29
<[GuS]>
knipwim: thanks, i will prepare my laptop to make tests as client
14:29
<knipwim>
i found a solution to your language problem as well
14:31
already mailed the fix to the quickstart maintainer
14:31
i'll also post it in the gentoo bug
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14:50
<knipwim>
johnny: since fonts are not installed by default in the client
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14:50
<knipwim>
i'm proposing to install them via the PACKAGES var
14:50
in ltsp-build-client.conf
14:51
giving the user a choice for which font to use
14:51
<[GuS]>
<knipwim> already mailed the fix to the quickstart maintaine ---> i saw the bug report, great.
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14:52
<knipwim>
johnny: already tested, either dejavu, font-bitstream-type1 or freefonts work
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15:30
<johnny>
ah,so we should install a font :)
15:32
<knipwim>
are you okay with the ltsp-build-client.conf solution?
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15:36
<johnny>
hmm.. no, there needs to be a default
15:36
ltsp-build-client.conf shouldn't be required
15:36
unless we're installing those conf files..
15:37
but ubuntu doesn't
15:37
i don't think debian does either
15:37
knipwim, also.. hopefully in the next few weeks we can use dracut
15:37
since gsoc is almost finished
15:38
perhaps it's already been completed, i'm not sure
15:38
<knipwim>
johnny: not according the developer's blog
15:38
<johnny>
knipwim, really tho, we should be putting it in a profile file probably
15:38
<knipwim>
which font?
15:38
<johnny>
it doesn't seem like it should be that hard to accomplish, i'm not sure why it is taking them so long
15:39
<knipwim>
i opt for dejavu
15:39
<johnny>
dejavu seems reasonable
15:39
yes
15:40
really tho.. we should probably switch away from quickstart, if agaffney isn't going to maintain it
15:40
perhaps catalyst can do the job
15:40
<knipwim>
i don't know catalyst
15:43
hmm, looks interesting
15:52
<[GuS]>
is a replacement for quickstart?
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15:56
<johnny>
not quite
15:56
it's the gentoo iso build system
15:56
quickstart is simpler
15:58
<[GuS]>
oks
15:59
my experience with Gentoo is almost new (since i work here). I am more debian based.
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17:19
<Kyle__>
Hello. I've got an LDM question. Can it be unbundled from LTSP and used on it's own? Say in an ubuntu lab?
17:19
Or is it too tightly coupled into LTSP?
17:21
<alkisg>
It's quite difficult, it's tightly coupled. Why would you want ldm in a non-ltsp client?
17:21
<johnny>
why would you want to?
17:21
<Kyle__>
If I understand it right, LDM can be used for authentication.
17:22
That's why. Simple authentication, without the need for ldap.
17:22
<alkisg>
It's much easier to use ldap for that. But you can also use fat clients instead
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17:22
<johnny>
Kyle__, it's just a frontend to ssh
17:22
so you'd still have to use ldap
17:22
<Kyle__>
Oh. Damn.
17:22
<alkisg>
johnny: not realy
17:22
*really
17:22* Kyle__ is listening.
17:23
<johnny>
i mean.. if you need distributed authentication..
17:23
<alkisg>
ldm copies the authenticated user to the client passwd, so it would work without ldap
17:23
<johnny>
i guess i'm still missing what authentication you need
17:23
<alkisg>
But, it's much much easier to maintain a fat client lab than a plain ubuntu lab
17:23
<johnny>
in which gdm doesn't provide
17:24
<alkisg>
Kyle__: sbalneav is planning on implementing a libpam-ssh authentication library, which some next version of ldm would use
17:24
<Kyle__>
johnny: GDM works with whatever the underlying OS works with, but only so far. If you use it with LDAP, it can be a bit of pain.
17:25
<alkisg>
That library could then be used from gdm or other managers, so that users would authenticate with ssh on your non-ltsp server.
17:25
<Kyle__>
alkisg: Neat.
17:25
<johnny>
your question was too vague
17:25
<alkisg>
But really, fat client labs are much easier :D
17:25
<johnny>
about what problem you're trying to solve
17:26
<Kyle__>
alkisg: With the ubuntu flavored fat-client, how different is it than stock 'buntu?
17:26
<alkisg>
Not at all. NFS is used for /home, ssh authentication though ldm, but everything runs locally
17:26
So you just maintain a chroot instead of e.g. 12 separate ubuntu installations
17:27
On a very new ubuntu lab the clients started in 50 secs with 9.04
17:27
I've installed 10.04 fat clients on that lab server, and they now start in 13 secs
17:27
<Kyle__>
johnny: unified login and groups, so I don't have to create all the maps and hacks to get every group pemission right through LDAP.
17:28
johnny: Dozens of packages need special groups, all of which would have to be mapped, or hacked a bit, to get working with ldap.
17:28
<johnny>
you can implement whatever pam method you want ... ldap or not
17:28
<Kyle__>
alkisg: It can use any network FS for /home though, correct?
17:28
<alkisg>
Kyle__: sure, you may even use local /home if you want to
17:29
No need for a network fs
17:29
<Kyle__>
alkisg: I actually have need for gluster in this case, that's why I'm checking.
17:29
<alkisg>
You'd need a small script to mount /home on boot
17:29
The nfs one is a couple of lines, so it should be pretty easy
17:29
<Kyle__>
Not a problem.
17:30
<alkisg>
What's your experience with gluster?
17:30
<Kyle__>
alkisg: Limited, but I put it through some decent testing for my needs, and it seems stable.
17:31* alkisg reads the web site...
17:32
<Kyle__>
My problem (one of them) is that I'll need a few terabytes of space for students to use, but haven't got the budget to get enough fast-enough drives for the server.
17:32
<alkisg>
If you have normal hard drives, you could use those. Backup will be a problem then though - you'd need to solve that somehow
17:33
(I mean, mount /home locally)
17:34
Maybe rsync'ing the local homes to the server at nights or something like that...
17:35
<Kyle__>
alkisg: I'm going to be creating a gluster-cluster where group A creates an appended volume, group B mirrors it, and one huge honkin drive on the server mirrors it.
17:35
<alkisg>
Sounds neat, please post your experiences somewhere when you're done setting it up...
17:35
<Kyle__>
alkisg: I will :)
17:35
OK, I'm digging through the LTSP wiki... am I looking for the term fat client?
17:35
Cuase I dont' see it...
17:36
<alkisg>
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
17:36
!fatclients
17:36
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: Error: "fatclients" is not a valid command.
17:36
<Kyle__>
Ahh, I was on the completely wrong wiki.
17:36
<alkisg>
!learn fatclients as You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
17:36
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: The operation succeeded.
17:38
<alkisg>
Kyle__: I've no idea how gluster works, but if you think it could also be used to export the chroot instead of nbd/nfs, please provide some feedback on that too.
17:39
<Kyle__>
I will.
17:39* alkisg would love the chroot being automatically mirrored locally on the client hard disks...
17:39
<alkisg>
It would make it possible to run a very large number of fat clients even on 100mbps networks
17:39
<Kyle__>
This will be a very odd setup :) But I'm looking forward to it.
17:40
K, printed that out. I'm gonna go read that on the train.
17:41
<alkisg>
k, good luck
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21:13
<intelliant>
hello Appiah
21:13
sorry could not get back on the ldap client config issue
21:13
have made some progress since then
21:13
but it seems pam auth fails
21:14
you had asked for the auth.log output
21:14
the symptom now is that it allows a ldap user to log in and then throws him out within a few seconds
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21:40
<intelliant>
now the problem is that without a root user that a default ubuntu install disallows, I am not even able to ssh back into the vm
21:40
so can't provide you with the logs :(
21:41
will have to restart the work on a cloned vm and will then post the logs before I close the session
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<vagrantc>
bah. i'm too tired to do an ltsp upload ... even though it's probably a pretty trivial upload...
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