IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 8 October 2012   (all times are UTC)

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09:49
<ltspuser_43>
hello. I need to put my ubuntu filesystem read only... How do I need to change?
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10:13
<vlt>
ltspuser_43: You mean you want to mount it in read-only mode? Or remount it?
10:37
<Hyperbyte>
ltspuser_43, also please tell us -why- you want to do that. What goal you are trying to achieve. Because there may be better ways of getting there. Generally speaking, you can't put "a whole filesystem" read-only, because the OS -needs- to write certain things at boot/login in order for things to work.
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10:38
<Hyperbyte>
LTSP clients by default, for example, use a read-only filesystem via NBD on Ubuntu, but several other temporary writable filesystems are overlayed in places where the clients - need- to have write access in order to function.
10:40
<ltspuser_43>
I am using NFS instead of NBD...
10:40
and with several terminal they all try to write in the same files
10:40
I want to avoid that...
10:40
<muppis>
That's why you should use nbd.
10:40
<ltspuser_43>
theres another way?
10:41
but to work withe the scenario that I have I need to use NFS...
10:42
I folllowed this how to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWithoutNFS
10:42
the part to revert to NFS...
10:43
I have a Debian etch server providing all the filesystems...
10:44
if the solution is to use NBD I can install a NBD server and configure
10:45
this Debian server have all the users accounts and is the DHCP and DNS server...
10:46
<Hyperbyte>
Why did you choose for NFS over NBD?
10:46
<ltspuser_43>
because in my Debian server I only have NFS configured...
10:46
you suggest to use NBD??
10:47
with NBD I don't have this problem?
10:47
with multiple sessions?
10:47
<muppis>
Yes.
10:47
<Hyperbyte>
muppis, ltspuser_43, if you're going to do NFS with LTSP you should mount your root read-only
10:48
This can easily be done by editing /etc/exports on the server.
10:48
<muppis>
But isn't then overlay needed anyway?
10:48
<Hyperbyte>
muppis, yes, but you need overlay with NFS or NBD regardless
10:48
So it doesn't matter.
10:49
I -think-, even with rw NFS, LTSP does the overlay anyway
10:49
Although since ltspuser_43 obviously greatly modified their setup (Debian server, Ubuntu clients, NFS, etc) it is a bit difficult to say what exactly happens and what doesn't
10:50
<ltspuser_43>
I already changed my /etc/exports...
10:50
<Hyperbyte>
My advice is to always deploy LTSP with as much of the recommended settings as possible... that way you keep your setup simple, making it easier to transfer to another admin, to upgrade and also easier to get support. When you have a complicated, customized setup, it is more difficult to find people who can support you properly.
10:51
<ltspuser_43>
but when I change the sysmtem can't mount and not boot...
10:51
system*
10:51
I understand...
10:52
<Hyperbyte>
mhm
10:52
<ltspuser_43>
but I didn't have a choice...
10:52
<Hyperbyte>
Well, then this is what I mean with making it difficult to support
10:52
Because now I can't tell you anything anymore, besides what muppis said... ubuntu uses NBD by default, that works.
10:52
And sure you had a choice. :)
10:52
<ltspuser_43>
ok
10:52
I will try with nbd...
10:52
<Hyperbyte>
I'm running Fedora and I want a Ubuntu LTSP server. I created a virtual machine with Ubuntu (qemu-kvm), and then ran LTSP in there.
10:53
<ltspuser_43>
but this solution is not a choice for me...
10:53
I will try with NBD:..
10:53
<Hyperbyte>
ltspuser_43, why isn't it?
10:53
<ltspuser_43>
thank you :)
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10:53
<Hyperbyte>
:)
10:53
Are you working with fat clients or thin?
10:54
<ltspuser_43>
because I already have this server virtualized...
10:54
thin clients...
10:54
<Hyperbyte>
I'm confused now
10:54
You have thin clients - then why do you have a Ubuntu client chroot?
10:55
<ltspuser_43>
because I tried with a squeeze filesystem and LDM was not working very well...
10:56
<Hyperbyte>
Well I have no idea about Debian... but LTSP thin clients don't use filesystems
10:56
They use the filesystem of the server, via NBD or NFS... it shouldn't matter what kind of filesystem you have on the server.
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10:57
<ltspuser_43>
yes
10:57
<Hyperbyte>
If you have this server virtualized, my advice would be to see if you can un-complicate your setup. LTSP on Debian should work. So make a clone of that virtual server, get rid of your Ubuntu chroot, build a new Debian client, and then see what happens
10:57
<ltspuser_43>
but the server is a Debian etch and doesn't have support for some things...
10:57
<Hyperbyte>
And if you have problems, come here and we will try to help you as best as we can. That would be a proper solution.
10:58
Well since it's virtualized, what's stopping you from installing a whole new one?
10:58
<ltspuser_43>
I understand...
10:58
but I have tried...
10:58
<Hyperbyte>
You can create a new virtual guest, install a brand new Debian there, with the newest LTSP....
10:59
<ltspuser_43>
but I have here some terminals and they need the driver geode to have a good performance
11:00
<Hyperbyte>
It will be a lot of work now probably, but will save you lots of headache in the long run.
11:00
<ltspuser_43>
and in debian etch I couldn't have this driver...
11:00
so I tried squeeze
11:00
but with squeeze I had themes problems...
11:00
<Hyperbyte>
What do you think is easier to debug:
11:01
a) A problem with themes
11:01
b) A problem with filesystems not properly being made read-only in a highly customized LTSP setup with Debian as server and Ubuntu as client
11:01
<ltspuser_43>
in Unity the icons close, minimize, etc pass to the right corner...
11:02
but with Ubuntu it's working...
11:02
<Hyperbyte>
You have fixed your theme problem, but in such a way that you setup becomes incredibly complicated, to the point where you run into much more complicated problems.
11:02
<ltspuser_43>
I am going to try with NBD and after this I can try with a new Debian...
11:03
<Hyperbyte>
I have another bold question for you.
11:03
Why are you using Debian, instead of Ubuntu?
11:03
<ltspuser_43>
because the server is Debian...
11:03
I can't change tha
11:03
that
11:03
<Hyperbyte>
It was virtualized you said
11:03
You could easily create another virtual server that is Ubuntu
11:04
<ltspuser_43>
yes I know...
11:04
I will try
11:04
thank you for all the support ;)
11:04
<Hyperbyte>
If you feel lucky, try an installation of Ubuntu 12.04, see if that doesn't fix all your problems in one go.
11:05
Good luck... if you need anything, we'll definitely try to help you here. :) But understand that the more complicated you make your system, the less likely it will be that we can help you properly.
11:05
<ltspuser_43>
I understand
11:05
thank you very much
11:06
<Hyperbyte>
Welcome. :)
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11:08
<gvy>
"the more complicated you make your system, the less likely it will be that we can help you properly" and "Why are you using Debian, instead of Ubuntu?" contradict to me, btw
11:17
<Hyperbyte>
Hehe, well, we can distro-war whatever you want.
11:17
Fact is, I'm a Fedora man. I don't like Ubuntu very much.
11:17
But when it comes to LTSP, it IS the most popular distro out there, and by far the easiest one to get support for.
11:19
<muppis>
Me neither do like Ubuntu, but well.. It's easier set up tha Debian and.. that's what I like.
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11:24
<ltspuser_43>
I saw on ubuntu deplyment thar with NBD is provided an i386.img
11:24
what is this image?
11:25
<muppis>
It's the image what is used over nbd.
11:25
<ltspuser_43>
yes... but for what?
11:25
this image have some info?
11:25
<muppis>
It's the system waht clint uses.
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11:26
<Hyperbyte>
ltspuser_43, NFS transports a file/directory over network
11:26
NBD transports a disk image over network
11:28
With NBD, there's a command ltsp-update-image, which builds the i386.img file from the /opt/ltsp/i386/ folder
11:30
This is useful so you can do modifications and then "publish" them all at once, plus you can very easily back-up working images and NBD has much better speed than NFS
11:31
<ltspuser_43>
ok
11:31
thank you ;)
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12:24
<markit>
hi alkisg :) when scripts under chroot /etc/X11/Xsession.d are executed, home (or fstab_xx) are already been executed?
12:25
is there any docs about the ltsp "insights", scripts, and sequence?
12:53
<alkisg>
markit: Xsession.d does not run for LDM nor for thin clients
12:53
It runs for fat clients after /home is mounted, yup
12:53
<markit>
ok, thanks
12:53
<alkisg>
No docs available
12:54
Apart from the main .pdf
12:54
!docs
12:54
<ltsp>
docs: For the most current documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
12:54
<markit>
I'm opening 4 terminal, 2 on the server, 2 on the client, and will make a movie with iftop and iotop command
12:54
and I've moved startkde to startkde_original
12:54
and replaced startkde with
12:54
/usr/bin/strace -f -o /tmp/fat_strace_startkde.txt /usr/bin/startkde_vero
12:54
exit 0
12:54
do you think will be ok?
12:55
nfortunately, rebuild the nbd image takes a lot, so the "try and error" aproach is very time consuming
12:55
<alkisg>
You can make changes from screen_02=shell in the live image, or just use nfs as well
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12:59
<markit>
yep, but I think I've "intercept" the kde run script to put strace on front
12:59
ah, yes, I could edit on the fly and test, yes
13:00
I could also from a ssh connection
13:00
so copy and paste is easier
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13:08
<markit>
alkisg: at ldm login I've ssh into the fat, and mount shows that /var/tmp (fstab_02) is mounted, but fstab_01 /home is not... is it normal?
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13:10
<markit>
MY FOULT
13:10
I've both lines with FSTAB_1
13:10
sigh
13:24
mmm kde variables in /etc/X11/Xsession.d are ignored
13:24
wondering where I can put an "override" of the temp path variable
13:24
<alkisg>
In lts.conf
13:24
...possibly
13:24
<markit>
really?
13:24
like AAA=XXX
13:24
export AAA?
13:25
or just AAA=XXX?
13:25
<alkisg>
No, just VAR=value, but it will only affect some scripts, it won't go inside the user session...
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13:25
<alkisg>
Put it in the startkde wrapper you made
13:26
<markit>
I need something like KDEVARTMP=$(eval echo $HOME)/.cache
13:26
ok, good advice
13:26
<alkisg>
...remove the "eval echo" there
13:26
KDEVARTMP="$HOME/.cache"
13:26
<markit>
thanks A LOT
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13:29
<alkisg>
markit: don't forget to export the var, export KDEVARTMP="$HOME/.cache"
13:29
<markit>
ehm :)
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13:34
<markit>
mmm in fat I'm root, I can see /home, but if I do a cd /home/marco I have a "forbidden", I've no the permission
13:34
discouraging... and don't know if .cache is created before I need to use it
13:35
<alkisg>
markit: su - user
13:35
sshfs only exposes the file system for the user
13:36
<markit>
so nfs can't be used for home? I mean, if I see file permissions of my home/.kde are of nobody nogroup
13:36
is a problem of my nfs config?
13:36
<alkisg>
markit: nfs is mounted on system boot
13:36
Of course it can be used for home
13:36
(unless there's some bug that prevents nfs from being mounted)
13:37
<markit>
it's mounted, but files created there don't belong to the user
13:37
or am I wrong?
13:37
# LANG=C su - marco
13:37
su: Authentication failure
13:37
(Ignored)
13:37
marco@ltsp102:~$ ls -l /home/marco/.kde/
13:37
totale 8
13:37
drwx------ 3 nobody nogroup 4096 ott 8 15:32 cache-ltsp102
13:38
<alkisg>
has the user logged in?
13:38
If not, there's no matching user name, that's why the nobody/nogroup change..
13:39
Once the user logs in, you'll see the correct owner
13:39
<markit>
I see... the ldm login went on but I have the infamous problem of the lnusertemp failed
13:39
$ echo $KDEVARTMP is empty in sudo -s marco
13:40
<alkisg>
If you put that in the startkde script, then it's logical that it doesn't show up for root
13:40
Anyways, time to go, bbl
13:40
<markit>
alkisg: thanks a lot
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14:21
<ltspuser_53>
probably been asked 100 times before - Raspberry pi integration?
14:35
<Hyperbyte>
ltspuser_53, it has. :)
14:37
Check out this IRC log: http://irclogs.ltsp.org/?d=2012-09-20
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14:57
<ltspuser_53>
Hyperbyte: it does? I'm a bit confused the the whole arm6 thing - I assume if I use a Debian base rather than an Ubuntu base (who dropped arm6 I think) it will work fine?
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14:57
<ltspuser_53>
basically wnat to link up two Pis to a beefy server
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15:00
<ltspuser_53>
(two kids wanting to play Minecraft - thought this may be one way to tinker and let them get on with it!)
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15:05
<ltspuser_53>
ah, well, sod it. Windows it is!
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15:50
<ltspuser_43>
how can I have a DHCP server and send to the terminal that the ltsp server is another machine?
15:50
send to the thin client
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16:04
<||cw>
ltspuser_43: you don't. you add that as a kernel option in the PXE
16:05
used to be ndb_server=... but i don't know if it's still the same for v5
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16:25
<alkisg>
ltspuser_43: that's the "next-server" (=tftp server) DHCP option
16:26
<ltspuser_43>
ok
16:26
thks
16:27
<markit>
alkisg: I've reduced kde I/O to 100MB instead of 600, but there are problems that I can't solve at the moment. Btw, with /home as nfs, should symlink work among files under /home?
16:32
<alkisg>
markit: yes
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16:38
<markit>
sigh, it creates a DIR cache-ltsp102 (in normal setup should be a link to /var/tmp/kdecache-marco)
16:38
and in /home/.cache, that is where I'm (just for experiment) directing the $KDEVARTMP
16:39
it creates an empty kdecache-marco + kdecache-marconux01l + kdecache-marcovgwoio
16:39
having "just" 100MB makes me feel a bit more optimistic, but I'm still far away from the solution, hope you will put the final world on this next week or so :)
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16:43
<ltspuser_44>
alkisg: I have my machine conf ind dhcpd.conf like this:
16:43
hardware ethernet F4:6D:04:17:C3:4B; fixed-address 192.168.69.213; option systemimager-server "192.168.69.199"; option root-path "/opt/ltsp/i386"; option log-servers 192.168.69.199; filename "/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0"; next-server 192.168.69.212;
16:44
but didn't found the tftp boot...
16:44
<alkisg>
ltspuser_44: do you have a tftpd running on your ltsp server?
16:44
<ltspuser_44>
the tftpboot is on the machine with the IP 212
16:44
<alkisg>
!tftp
16:44
<ltsp>
tftp: Here's a page to help you troubleshoot TFTP problems in Ubuntu: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/Troubleshooting/TFTP
16:45
<alkisg>
ltspuser_44: it's easier if you have a tftp server running on your ltsp server, even if you don't have a dhcp one
16:45
This way you don't have to transfer the kernel/initrd on each ltsp image update
16:45
<ltspuser_44>
the machine 199 has the two services...
16:45
<alkisg>
You can have 2 tftp servers, one on 199 and one on the ltsp server
16:45
<ltspuser_44>
and the 212 only has tftp
16:46
<alkisg>
212 is the ltsp server?
16:46
<ltspuser_44>
yes
16:46
<alkisg>
Right, so read the page I linked above ^
16:46
<ltspuser_44>
and I want to tell the thin client using the DHCP server in 199
16:46
<alkisg>
...to use the tftp/ltsp server at 212
16:46
That's "next-server", correct
16:48
<ltspuser_44>
but it's not finding...
16:48
and if I put the 212 with DHCP server it works...
16:48
<alkisg>
Read the wiki page above.
16:49
That way you'll verify that your ltsp/tftp server is correctly set up
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16:52
<knipwim>
hey guys, check out my lts.conf editor: http://project.flowledge.nl/lts.conf
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17:02
<markit>
mmm in FAT, with dolphin or terminal I see that all my home is owned by nobody:nogroup!
17:02
from server I see that is owned by marco:marco (correct)
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17:15
<ltspuser_85>
it's working alkisg
17:15
but only one terminal boots...
17:15
the other one freeze in the step "trying to load:..."
17:15
it's ubuntu 12.04
17:16
it's necessary to change something to have n terminals using this image?
17:30
I need to change my resolution
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17:38ltspuser_98 is now known as Luizcezar
17:39
<Luizcezar>
hello, i have a client here and im trying to boot with ubuntu 12.04 but i got the message: This kernel requires the following features not present on the cpu: cx8 cmov, can you help me?
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17:52
<Luizcezar>
alkisg: cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep lm
17:52
hello, i have a client here and im trying to boot with ubuntu 12.04 but i got the message: This kernel requires the following features not present on the cpu: cx8 cmov, can you help me?
17:53
<alkisg>
Luizcezar: ubuntu doesn't support this client, either use 10.04 or switch to debian or throw away the client
17:54
<Luizcezar>
alkisg: the client dont support the ubuntu 10.04 also?
17:54
i changed my client and now got this message
17:54
<alkisg>
It should be supported by 10.04
17:54
<Luizcezar>
oh my god, i will try the 10.04 then
17:55
<alkisg>
Btw, there's no need to ping specific persons, you can ask in the channel instead, so that anyone available can answer
17:55
<Luizcezar>
I did the question before, then after 10 minutes you entered, and paste to you, but sry about that.
17:57
i will be back later because i will format the server ;)
17:57
<alkisg>
Luizcezar: it's also possible,
17:57
to have a 10.04 chroot on a 12.04 server
17:58
Think if it suits you better before formatting
17:58
<Luizcezar>
hum
17:58* alkisg would switch to 10.04 :P
17:59
<alkisg>
(or wheezy...)
17:59
<Luizcezar>
would you switch to 10.04 without using chroot? sry i didnt understand.
18:00
<alkisg>
I mean that if I had old clients that don't support cmov, I'd either switch to 10.04 completely or to debian completely
18:00
<Luizcezar>
;D
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18:00
<Luizcezar>
I agree.
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18:06* muppis talked today with audit from Greece.
18:06
<alkisg>
Audit?
18:06
Audio?
18:07
<muppis>
Audenthicator.
18:08
Person who checks that regulations are followed.
18:08
<alkisg>
Ah
18:08
...we have that in Greece? :P :D
18:08
<muppis>
:)
18:09
Actually he check how those regulations are followed and reports to customer.
18:10
alkisg, banks and credit companies uses those.
18:26
<gvy>
wish these were *really* really audited
18:27
my sister used to work as bank auditor quite some time ago
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18:48* alkisg wonders how the BTS went...
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19:10
<Davew>
Am using Edubuntu 12.04 and note that Menu Editor and Profile Manager do not appear to work. Can someone advise me further about it ?
19:22
<highvoltage>
Davew: if you don't get any help here about it, could you also try the edubuntu-users mailing list? (it's on http://lists.ubuntu.com)
19:23
<Davew>
Sure will, thank you
19:24
<alkisg>
I want to check if imposing a tcp limit of e.g. 80mbps on the clients helps with the flow control problem (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FlowControl)
19:25
I found this in google, but I can't get it to limit the incoming rate when I run it on thin clients: http://lartc.org/howto/lartc.ratelimit.single.html
19:25
Could someone check what I'm doing wrong?
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19:27
<TheProf>
!ubuntu-2d
19:27
<ltsp>
ubuntu-2d: To select ubuntu-2d as your default session, put this line in your lts.conf: LDM_SESSION="gnome-session --session=ubuntu-2d"
19:27
<alkisg>
TheProf: you'll also need to install it on your server, sudo apt-get install unity-2d, although I think it's preinstalled in edubuntu
19:28
<TheProf>
Hmm.. so I just checked lts.conf and I already had that line about LDM_Session in it.
19:29
I also have unity-2d already installed.
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19:30
<alkisg>
TheProf: login with such a user, and then put the output of `ps aux|grep username` from the server, to pastebin
19:31
(also note it's LDM_SESSION, not LDM_Session)
19:31
<TheProf>
alkisg: sorry - it is correct in lts.conf ; I typed it incorrectly into IRC
19:33
alkisg: I am away from the school now unfortunately so I can't connect remotely (well I can via NX but the problem doesn't appear via NX). So I will pastebin it the next time I am at the school.
19:33* alkisg guesses that somehow the clients try to login with unity-3d
19:34
<TheProf>
most probably you are correct. I'm suspecting that the changes in lts.conf are not taking.
19:34
I've had a problem before where an extra enter at the bottom (or lackthereof) seems to throw everything.
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19:36
<TheProf>
So maybe it's not seeing the lts.conf notes.
19:41
alkisg: I just called someone at the school and had them manually change their session at the thin client login screen to -2D and they were able to make it work!
19:41
So, as you surmised, it is not taking the session setting from lts.conf but is instead using 3d
19:42
<alkisg>
You can pastebin your lts.conf if you want us to have a quick look there
19:42
Or run getltscfg -a from a local client console
19:43
<TheProf>
Just connecting back in via NX to do that now.
19:46
!pastebin
19:46
<ltsp>
pastebin: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
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19:47
<TheProf>
http://pastebin.com/XYEe6cph
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19:47
<TheProf>
The last part of the file with the printer I had to comment out since if I don't comment out, the thin clients refuse to load.
19:48
alkisg: I don't have getltscfg installed on my server.
19:49
<alkisg>
It's installed in the chroot
19:49
About the printer, see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/996533
19:49
<TheProf>
or right - my mistake. You said from a thin client.
19:50
<alkisg>
It seems OK, so it might be related to where lts.conf is stored, or to your dhcp settings
19:50
Are you using ipappend=3?
19:51
<TheProf>
lts.conf is in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/amd64/
19:51
I am not sure if I'm using ipappend=3 to be honest :)
19:52
<alkisg>
E.g. the client might be trying to find it in ltsp/i386/lts.conf, you could make a symlink there to verify it
19:52
<TheProf>
it was a clean installation of edubuntu 12.04
19:53
alkisg: I understand what you mean. Could I ask why would it look in i386 in some cases and amd64 in others? All the thin clients are identical hardware
19:53
<alkisg>
The others might also be missing lts.conf
19:55
<TheProf>
OK. So what I will do when I am at the school is first follow the steps on the launchpad bur report to resolve the printer and then see if the 2D/3D issue is resolved with a symlink.
19:56
<alkisg>
Or try getltscfg -a from a client
19:56
<TheProf>
alkisg: Yes I will do that.
19:58
Actually follow-up question. Will a regular apt-get update/upgrade automatically update the patch that is mentioned in the launchpad by Stgraber? It says it was pushed to the repositories.
20:00
<alkisg>
It's not available in precise-updates yet, it'll be in the future
20:00
<TheProf>
Thank you.
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20:41
<markit>
alkisg: some hours ago was thinking I've solved the issue, now seems to me that I'm falling back to the point it does not work. I've the feeling that when startkde is executed, the user does not have ownership of his home
20:41
and something like Error: "/home/marco/.cache/kdecache-marco" is owned by uid 65534 instead of uid 1001.
20:41
could happen to lnusertemp
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