IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 15 April 2016   (all times are UTC)

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17:01
<contactwajeeh>
hi
17:02
i was able to fix the issue, i basically wanted to rdp to windows TS which was achieved with customization of lts.conf
17:02
<alkisg>
Hello
17:02
<contactwajeeh>
and it now directly boots to windows logon screen
17:02
able to login and use it
17:02
<alkisg>
Ah, then you didn't need to login at all
17:02
<contactwajeeh>
have one issue where I am unable to get sound on the thin clients
17:02
any possible way to fix it
17:02
<alkisg>
No sound at all or no sound in rdp?
17:02
<contactwajeeh>
no sound if i connect via thin client
17:03
<alkisg>
I.e. is that an ltsp issue or a problem with your command line of xfreerdp?
17:03
<contactwajeeh>
if I rdp from a full blown desktop I am getting sound
17:04
my rdp options are as follows
17:04
RDP_OPTIONS="-f --no-nla --ignore-certificate --rfx"
17:04
<alkisg>
What command are you using to rdp from a full blown desktop?
17:04
Which rdp are you using?
17:04
<contactwajeeh>
i mean from a windows machine
17:05
xfreerdp
17:05
<alkisg>
Does it work if you run xfreerdp from a full blown linux desktop?
17:05
<contactwajeeh>
i havent tested it as i dont have linux boxes atm
17:05
<alkisg>
Try from a live cd
17:06
I don't think it's an ltsp issue but how you run xfreerdp
17:06
If you can't find how to make sound work in xfreerdp in google, them maybe you can ask in their mailing list
17:06
<contactwajeeh>
if i add anything like -r sound:local to the rdp options all I am getting is a black screen with cursor
17:06
<alkisg>
Don't use RDP_OPTIONS and RDP_SERVER etc
17:06
Use only this line in lts.conf:
17:07
SCREEN_07="xfreerdp -f --no-nla --ignore-certificate --rfx --whatever-else-you-want"
17:07
I.e. everything in a single line, with the server and all there
17:07
<contactwajeeh>
where do i add server info
17:07
<alkisg>
I think it's the last parameter of xfreerdp
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17:07
<alkisg>
SCREEN_07="xfreerdp -f --no-nla --ignore-certificate --rfx --whatever-else-you-want <server-goes-here>"
17:07
<contactwajeeh>
got it, let me give it a try
17:09
<alkisg>
contactwajeeh: for TESTING, you can also put this:
17:09
SCREEN_07=xterm
17:09
This will get you an xterm, and you can test xfreerdp from there
17:10
When you get the full command line that works for you, with sound and all, then you can put that whole line in lts.conf
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17:12
<contactwajeeh>
this info is great, thanks alkisg
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17:15
<contactwajeeh>
alkisg freerdp is better or rdesktop
17:15
<alkisg>
Is that a statement or a question?
17:15
Ah, "or"
17:15
Sorry
17:15
I read "of" :)
17:15
AFAIK xfreerdp is better, but I'm not using any one of them
17:15
I haven't really used windows since 2008
17:16
xfreerdp was actively developed some years ago, but I don't see any recent news about it
17:17
For good clients with e.g. 1 GB RAM, I'm telling to schools here to use virtualbox over ltsp (one windows installation only) instead of rdp
17:17
<||cw>
IIRC xfreerdp is required if you want win7+ or server 2008+
17:18
at least, if there's an AD involved
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17:24
<contactwajeeh>
its kind of baffled to see that any option i add to the existing set of options gives me a black screen with cursor
17:24
not sure where I am going wrong
17:24
if i revert back to my original set of options i get login screen again
17:25
<alkisg>
Start with SCREEN_07=xterm
17:25
<||cw>
and run the rdp command manually...
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18:36
<Guest42002>
Hi I'm doing a capstone class in CS and I was thinking about using Ltsp as a project to use legacy equipment in Third World countries as thin clients to new updated servers. In a nutshell instead of supplying new computers to each desk, supply a new server and configure legacy equipment to attach to it. Any ideas and suggestions out there? I'd like to get an idea how the best way to approach this is, what things to make sure that I
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18:39
<bWOLF>
Hi I'm doing a capstone class in CS and I was thinking about using Ltsp as a project to use legacy equipment in Third World countries as thin clients to new updated servers. In a nutshell instead of supplying new computers to each desk, supply a new server and configure legacy equipment to attach to it. Any ideas and suggestions out there? I'd like to get an idea how the best way to approach this is, what things to make sure that I incl
18:41
<vagrantc>
ambitious project
18:41
one thing i would recommend is making sure you know the local resources first
18:42
i recall a freind going to ghana and getting a bunch of old PIII computers shipped there (with massive problems in shipping, customs, and other logistical nightmares)
18:43
once they showed up, they found that the local school already had multiple labs full of P4 systems, unopened, in boxes, with dust on them
18:43
<bWOLF>
Fortunately I got a friend that takes care of all the shipping and logistics. After several years of supplying new computers to South American students, he has perfected sort of the process
18:44
<vagrantc>
that's good ... i can't count on both hands the number of good meaning projects that ended up poorly shipping computers around
18:44
i'd still recommend knowing what your local resources actually are, for real.
18:45
<bWOLF>
He goes down and sets up new computers in classrooms but I was thinking about a less expensive way that has a whole less bulk in shipping and when it comes time to upgrade to newer technology, the server is the only thing that needs upgrading (hopefully)
18:45
<vagrantc>
unfortunately, a lot of software doesn't scale well with thin clients anymore
18:45
mostly, with LTSP, we've been recommending fat clients lately ... still network booted, still centrally managed, but using the resources of the client hardware more
18:46
fortunately, all computers are a lot smaller these days
18:46
<bWOLF>
A lot of software doesn't scale well within clients anymore? H MM M I'm thinking more like classroom curriculum, Internet access – not much more
18:47
<vagrantc>
like, using a web browser?
18:47
<bWOLF>
Yes, and loading the server up with grade school curriculum
18:47
<vagrantc>
web browsers are some of the hardest things to reliably support, because a given website may consume *huge* resources
18:48
it's hard times for thin clients
18:48
that said, there's nothing like experimentation
18:49
if the site is willing to work with limits (e.g. going from no computer access to some computer access) ... you just have to have realistic expectations
18:50
reliable power can be an issue in some areas ... brownouts can be really hard on computers
18:51
<bWOLF>
Just curious then, if I was to take thin clients off the table for this project because of their limitations, am i stuck with having to take new computers down then or what might you suggest if you were trying to solve this problem of existing legacy equipment and thermal countries and upgrades?
18:51
<vagrantc>
with limited resources, you have to stress test it in as real-world of an environment as you can manage
18:51
bWOLF: first off, what kind of hardware are you thinking of as legacy hardware?
18:52
<bWOLF>
Existing desktops P2's and better, 200 megs of RAM
18:52
<vagrantc>
bWOLF: another thing people often overlook is responsible disposal of electronic waste ... most third world countries just end up tossing them in dumps where lead, mercury, etc. leaches into the groundwater when they break
18:53
bWOLF: with only 200MB of ram, they would barely even function as thin clients anymore ...
18:53
<bWOLF>
Yeah I saw that in Nicaragua
18:53
Upgrading RAM is simple
18:53
<vagrantc>
bWOLF: so, having a real plan for disposal is really important ethically
18:54
at least, that's my take
18:55
bWOLF: 1-2GB of ram? you might be able to do thin clients, although the power consumption on hardware older than core-2 systems is really awful
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18:55
<contactwajeeh>
alkisg: hi
18:56
I fixed my issue
18:56
thanks for your help
18:57
<vagrantc>
bWOLF: also, test the hardware before you ship it!
18:58
<contactwajeeh>
SCREEN_07="xfreerdp -f -a 32 --no-nla --ignore-certificate --rfx --plugin rdpsnd xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx"
18:58
these are the option set that worked, might be useful to somone
18:58
<vagrantc>
bWOLF: i'd also honestly price out the shipping of old computers vs. buying newer, smaller (a.k.a. easier-to-ship), faster, lower-power computers.
18:58
<contactwajeeh>
Sound=True
18:58
also added this
18:59
<vagrantc>
bWOLF: i say this coming from working at a computer reuse organization for 14 years
18:59
<bWOLF>
Lost my connection. Okay, I'll take the points into consideration. You have an idea about how I can get around some of the issues you pointed out or maybe your take on an alternative?
19:00
<vagrantc>
bWOLF: what was the last thing you caught?
19:00
<bWOLF>
You were working at a company reuse organization for 14 years
19:01
Computer
19:01
<vagrantc>
bWOLF: oh, other really, really, really important point that's frequently overlooked is making sure there's local skill to maintain the systems over time, and supporting the already existing IT or training them and following up with them
19:02
<bWOLF>
True
19:03
<vagrantc>
bWOLF: it's honestly a really difficult project ... i've seen many of the ways that sort of thing can go wrong ... not a lot of resounding success stories to model
19:03
<bWOLF>
ok thank you
19:04
<vagrantc>
bWOLF: i've been exploring very small, low-power arm systems, but they're even more finicky than your typical x86 systems
19:05
so, i wouldn't quite recommend those yet
19:06
<bWOLF>
I guess my last question would be
19:06
<vagrantc>
bWOLF: if you can actually get hardware capable of running as LTSP fat clients, i think it becomes much more feasible, at least technically
19:07
<bWOLF>
What is currently the best application for LTS P using thin clients?
19:07
<vagrantc>
the social and logistical problems will always be hard ... but it's also really imprtant work, so ... :)
19:08
<bWOLF>
Are you still there
19:08
<vagrantc>
if you've got a very limited environment, where you can design the curriculum around the thin clients, that might work
19:08* vagrantc waves
19:09
<vagrantc>
once you open a web browser, though, all bets are off :)
19:09
<bWOLF>
Define limited environment
19:09
A LAN?
19:09
<vagrantc>
basically, if the curriculum is designed to only use the applications on the server, and the server is capable of handling multiple users at once ... then i could see thin clients working ok
19:10
but even things like libreoffice are huge resource hogs
19:10
it really depends on what the goals of having the classroom are
19:11
<bWOLF>
How about setting up a LAN using thin clients and having a separate fat client for accessing the web in the classroom?
19:11
<vagrantc>
anything involving video streaming though, is a bad choice for thin clients, for example
19:11
yeah, a mixed thin and fat environment might work
19:11
and it's easy to configure in LTSP
19:12
<bWOLF>
Cool. Are there resources online that would show me how to do that?
19:12
<vagrantc>
!lts.conf
19:12
<ltsp>
lts.conf: (#1) http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf, or (#2) lts.conf manpage is available in the ltsp-docs package
19:12
<vagrantc>
!fatclient
19:12
<ltsp>
I do not know about 'fatclient', but I do know about these similar topics: 'fatclients', 'fatclient-printers'
19:12
<vagrantc>
!fatclients
19:12
<ltsp>
fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
19:12
<vagrantc>
!ltsp-pnp
19:12
<ltsp>
ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
19:12
<vagrantc>
actually, ltsp-pnp is really awesome.
19:13
that'd be my biggest recommendation
19:13
basically, you install the server with all the stuff you want, and then you build an LTSP environment out of that
19:13
and it can autodetect weather to run thin or fat based on ram when it boots
19:15
if you're running 32-bit clients, you'll need to also install a 32-bit OS on your server, but that should mostly be fine.
19:15
<bWOLF>
Cool. Looks like I have my work cut out for me. I'll let you go for now and get started on this. Is this the best resource to utilize if I get stuck?
19:15
<vagrantc>
get your clients up to at least 512MB of ram for thin clients, ideally 1-2GB for fat clients ...
19:15
irc is good, just be sure t ask questions and wait for a few hours for a response, it's not always active
19:16
there's also ltsp-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net
19:17
bWOLF: out of curiosity, where are you based, and where are you planning on to install these computer labs?
19:17
<bWOLF>
Can you run vMs on thin clients?
19:17
<vagrantc>
bWOLF: technically yes, but you're going to be severely resource-constrained
19:17
especially because older hardware doesn't tend to have hardware virtualization support
19:18
!map
19:18
<ltsp>
I do not know about 'map', but I do know about these similar topics: 'worldmap'
19:18
<vagrantc>
!worldmap
19:18
<ltsp>
worldmap: If you're using LTSP, please let the world know and share your story at http://www.ltsp.org/stories/ Your can add a nice pin to our world map at your location, plus your setup will count towards the global LTSP usage statistics.
19:18
<vagrantc>
bWOLF: if you do get something working nicely, feel free to add it to the worldmap ^^
19:20
<bWOLF>
I'm based out of Portland Oregon and I'm looking for an alternative to help my friend who goes to South America with new desktops. I was thinking, take servers, set up a LAN and use their legacy equipment is thin clients. I can see that there will be potential issues with power reliability, support and potentially a lot of unusable equipment once I get down there. He's all up on the particulars so I can't speak to them right now
19:21
<vagrantc>
bWOLF: hah! i'd be happy to meet up sometime, i'm in portland too
19:22
<bWOLF>
Cool. yeah Oregon City. Capstone is for my CSNA @ CCC
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19:23
<bWOLF>
I do coffee
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19:24
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: i remember there were a few packages you were hoping to get into debian, but i forget where we left that
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