IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 28 February 2016   (all times are UTC)

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01:21
<r3pek>
hey guys
01:22
any info on why isn't ltspfs 1.4 tagget on lp?
01:22
*tagged
01:22
or released.... :-/ since it's actually tagged in bzr
01:39
<Hyperbyte>
r3pek, stick around... usually at this time there's not a lot of developers active in here.
01:39
<r3pek>
i will ;)
01:40
hope they see the message ;)
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07:28
<alkisg>
r3pek: what do you mean it's not tagged? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltspfs-trunk/changes/178?start_revid=178
07:28
1.4 is tagged in r178...
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14:21
<LanZ>
hi...
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14:23
<LanZ>
i'm looking for thinclient solution for school... with minimum budget... zero knowledge on linux... any recommendation?
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15:18
<r3pek>
alkisg: it's not on launchpad for download
15:18
how do i as a packager directly download the 1.4 version?
15:18
launchpad only has 1.1 :(
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15:20
<r3pek>
actually.... it had it yesterday.... today it doesn't
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16:12
<r3pek>
any dev around?
17:18
<alkisg>
r3pek: the launchpad milestones have not been in use for a long time, that's why I also deleted the ltspfs 1.1 milestone
17:18
Which distro are you packaging ltsp for?
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17:28
<alkisg>
Note that ldm and ltsp milestones as well are completely out of date...
17:29vagrantc has joined IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@unaffiliated/vagrantc)
17:30
<alkisg>
vagrantc: hi there
17:30
r3pek is asking about the ltspfs milestones and source releases in launchpad
17:30
E.g. https://launchpad.net/ltsp/, see the "series and milestones" diagram
17:31
I.e. where would he download the latest ltspfs tarball? He could of course get it from debian, e.g. https://packages.debian.org/sid/ltspfs ==> [ltspfs_1.4.orig.tar.gz]
17:32
But it seems that at some time we used to maintain source releases on launchpad as well, but we haven't done so in years
17:32
<vagrantc>
i don't recall ever doing so
17:32
<alkisg>
E.g. here's a downloads page from launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ltsp/+download
17:33
<vagrantc>
not sure what populates those milestone things
17:33
<alkisg>
It's a manual thing
17:33
Maybe knipwim did that to be able to get the tarball for gentoo
17:33
(for distros that fetch + compile from source)
17:33* vagrantc was never informed
17:33
<vagrantc>
sure
17:34
<alkisg>
So apparently ltsp-5.4.5.tar.xz is our last release and has 1776 downloads
17:34
<vagrantc>
yeah, that's kind of worrysome
17:35
<alkisg>
Are you in favor of deleting those, or maintaining them?
17:35
(let's also wait for r3pek to tell us his exact use case...)
17:36
<vagrantc>
well, i don't know how to put one there, and i don't really like the idea of having to do extra steps ...
17:36
<alkisg>
cyberorg: how do you get ltsp or epoptes source tarballs? Plain bzr branch?
17:38
vagrantc: I think that from https://launchpad.net/ltsp/ltsp-trunk we're supposed to click "create milestone" if we want to prepare for a release (ok we don't want that much overhead) or "create release" once it's released
17:38
I'll try to make one for the current ltsp
17:44
Meh, I need to create the tarball myself, then gpg sign it, then upload it to launchpad... some integration :(
17:44
Nope, I'm not willing to do that even as a test, case closed :D
17:44
<vagrantc>
eesh.
17:44
so, hopefully we can just delete them.
17:45
unless there's some way to import them from a distro release
17:45
some automated way
17:48
<alkisg>
OK I uploaded the one from debian (orig.tar.xz renamed to plain tar.xz), without gpg
17:48
https://launchpad.net/ltsp/+download
17:48
Let's see if anyone actually downloads that :)
17:49
<vagrantc>
and then we'll catch them!
17:49
<alkisg>
Haha
17:50
The "top contributors" list is also quite fun, "Lauri Võsandi 151 points", "Vagrant Cascadian 93 points"
17:51
We should start scoring more :P
17:52
Apparently, reviewing translations is much more effective for one's karma than writing the code :D
17:54
<vagrantc>
hah
17:54
<r3pek>
alkisg: i'm packaging for arch
17:55
<vagrantc>
so, i guess i really need to become fluent in other languages to really increase my karma
17:55
<alkisg>
r3pek: nice, have you been doing so for a while? is ltsp working fine there?
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17:55
<r3pek>
don't know ;)
17:55
<alkisg>
Ah, first time?
17:56
<r3pek>
just started packaging it
17:56
<alkisg>
r3pek: are the links from debian's site good enough for you?
17:56
<r3pek>
well.... they are
17:56
<alkisg>
E.g. https://packages.debian.org/sid/ltspfs => [ltspfs_1.4.orig.tar.gz]
17:56
<r3pek>
stilll.... i like it where upstream actually have tagged releases ;)
17:56
looks weird to go get debians packages :-/
17:57
<vagrantc>
upstream has been the people doing the work
17:57
<alkisg>
orig.tar.gz is not a package though, it's the source code
17:57
<r3pek>
yeah... i get it
17:57
<alkisg>
Arch has binary packages, right?
17:57
<r3pek>
so, if there's not other way to get it, i'll get it from there
17:57
no problem
17:57
<vagrantc>
back when there were other distros, every distro would tag a release when it was ready for their distro
17:57
<r3pek>
alkisg: kinda
17:57
<vagrantc>
so there wasn't really an upstream release without a distro release
17:58
<alkisg>
r3pek: the "http://http.debian.net/debian/pool/main/l/ltspfs/ltspfs_1.4.orig.tar.gz" link, will you be the only one to use it, or does it go in some "build-from-source" recipe?
17:58
<r3pek>
i can do a -bin package
17:58
<vagrantc>
part of that is because the "upstream" code is pretty distro-specific
17:58
<r3pek>
normally it's build from source, unless we don't have source :)
17:59
<alkisg>
I think gentoo expects the users themselves to download the source
17:59
<r3pek>
gentoo was getting from i was getting
17:59
<alkisg>
That's why knipwim took the effort to manage upstream releases
17:59
<r3pek>
was following they're ebuilds
18:00
https://gitweb.gentoo.org/proj/ltsp.git/tree/sys-fs/ltspfs/ltspfs-1.1.ebuild
18:00
see? ;)
18:00
<alkisg>
The key question for me is:
18:00
Will the arch user ever need to download the ltsp source in order to use it?
18:01
<r3pek>
the package is supposed to build it from source
18:01
<vagrantc>
to be GPL compliant, need to make sure the source is readily available...
18:01
<r3pek>
if there is one
18:01
<alkisg>
Does the user build the package, or an arch server builds it?
18:01
<r3pek>
in my case
18:01
the user
18:01
i'm making the package to AUR
18:02
still not a dev :-(
18:02
but since i need it.... i'll put it on AUR
18:02
(aur aka Arch User Repository)
18:02
<vagrantc>
that's a user-contributed packaging repository?
18:02
<alkisg>
What goes on AUR? A binary package, or an ebuild file?
18:02
<r3pek>
they're kinda like ebuilds
18:03
but they can install binary packages
18:03
still.... it's weird when we should have the source
18:03
i know u guys use LP, but even github generates a tar.gz from tags
18:03
lp apparently does not
18:04
and i don't want to depend on bzr just to get the tagged release from LP
18:05
<alkisg>
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/tarball/2710
18:05
It's using a revision number though, not the tag
18:05
I think that you could start with "http://http.debian.net/debian/pool/main/l/ltspfs/ltspfs_1.4.orig.tar.gz", where only the version changes and it's easy to put it in an ebuild,
18:05
<r3pek>
ah
18:06
need to check that then
18:06
<alkisg>
and if all goes well and you still want the upstream tarballs, maybe you could manage them like knipwim used to
18:06
<vagrantc>
although http.debian.net is apparently having maintenance probelms :(
18:07
<alkisg>
(works for me from here...)
18:08
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i seem to recall you had problems when you generated a stretch image? apparently lots of users are reporting things like that
18:08
<alkisg>
vagrantc: yup, 2-3 problems tehre
18:08
I think we were talking about it here, so we can find them in the irclogs
18:09
<vagrantc>
alkisg: basically, the whole point of httpredir.debian.org is to redirect to a "close" mirror... but sometimes it's redirecting to broken mirrors, and it's broken mirror detection isn't working
18:09
<alkisg>
Ah, mirrors were not my only issue...
18:09
<vagrantc>
(and http.debian.net is a CNAME for httpredir.debian.org now)
18:10
better to use a reliable mirror like ftp.de.debian.org or ftp.us.debian.org
18:10
<alkisg>
http://irclogs.ltsp.org/?d=2016-02-20
18:10* vagrantc liked being able to use a generic, not location-specific mirror for the defaults
18:10
<alkisg>
The mirror was the first problem, but I also had an issue with linux-image-486 not being available
18:12
<vagrantc>
oh yeah, linux-image-486 ...
18:12* vagrantc needs to fix that
18:13
<vagrantc>
that was a change *late* in the jessie release cycle, but they left the old one in for jessie
18:14
<alkisg>
r3pek: if you need any help with ltsp, ping us... did you manage to boot any clients yet?
18:15
<vagrantc>
looks like i should test i386 too periodically...
18:15* vagrantc has gotten in the habit of only testing amd64
18:15
<vagrantc>
should also give armhf a whirl
18:16
heh. still have kfreebsd code in there!
18:16
haven't tested that since at least 2011 ... and it never quite worked
18:16* alkisg can't understand this in popcon:
18:17
<alkisg>
http://popcon.debian.org/ : amd64 : 141246 i386 : 50123
18:17
sounds reasonable
18:17
<vagrantc>
alkisg: ok, so the simplest thing to do is default to linux-image-586, and require manually specifying kernel on wheezy.
18:17
<alkisg>
http://popcon.ubuntu.com/ : amd64 680722, i386 2069066
18:17
...so in ubuntu, 3 times more users are using i386 than amd64?
18:19
<vagrantc>
prevalence of old i386 CDs or something maybe?
18:19
<alkisg>
They're talking about dropping i386 cds after 16.04, no idea...
18:20
*isos
18:21
<vagrantc>
considering that wheezy will be out of full support any day now ... requiring manually specifying the kernel seems reasonable.
18:22
<alkisg>
Isn't there a generic "linux-image" package that is valid in all cases?
18:25
<vagrantc>
alkisg: what do you think this is, ubuntu?
18:25
<alkisg>
Haha
18:29
<vagrantc>
i guess there's still some conditional logic for older releases ... i guess i can make a mess of this.
18:35
<alkisg>
Since you're in a mood, maybe also put an ltsp 5.5.6 wheezy backport out there? :D
18:36
<vagrantc>
didn't i already upload one to my test repository?
18:37* alkisg made the stretch image at that point and didn't get to test the wheezy one
18:41
<vagrantc>
deb https://cascadia.debian.net/~vagrant/debian/ wheezy-backports-sloppy-UNRELEASED main
18:42
<r3pek>
alkisg: still making the packages
18:43
i'll report back when everything is packaged :)
18:47
<vagrantc>
alkisg: er, probably http instead, otherwise you need to install apt-transport-https in both the server and the chroot.
18:47
though i guess that might be feasible with debootstrap includes
18:53
alkisg: ok, pushing a commit now for i386 kernel selection on debian
19:01
<r3pek>
someone correct me if i'm wrong. everything is gplv2 right?
19:02
<vagrantc>
i think that's the intention
19:03
we could do a better job of making it clear
19:03
<alkisg>
is it gpl2 or gpl2+?
19:03
<r3pek>
everything is kinda spread out all over the place....
19:05
<vagrantc>
r3pek: this isn't a typical probject
19:05
<r3pek>
not saying it is :)
19:06
<vagrantc>
r3pek: it's not like it's possible to simply ./configure && make && make install
19:06
<r3pek>
just trying to make some sense out of it while packaging ;)
19:06
<vagrantc>
that said, it could be organized much better
19:06
<r3pek>
need to make 2 ltspfs packages ;)
19:06
<vagrantc>
we've made various attempts at organizing over the years...
19:06
<alkisg>
LTSP is one of the most messy packages, as its main purpose is to work around other issues to make netbooting possible
19:06
<r3pek>
just becase there are files installed on the client that aren't on the server
19:07
<vagrantc>
yes.
19:07
ldm and ltspfs actualyl should build fine, but then you need to manually create the server and client portions
19:08
unless you just create one package that has all the bits and install it in both places
19:08
<r3pek>
that could be done
19:09
one package installs everything regardless of it's the server or the client
19:09
but since you guys say it should be different, i'll make it different
19:11
<alkisg>
Haha, I run 'ls' in some remote pc and got only the word "error" as the output...
19:11
It took me 1 sec to realize that's the only file in the current directory...
19:11
<vagrantc>
it gives a little more flexibility to have separate packages.
19:12
<alkisg>
cd $(mktemp -d); touch "$(ls asdf 2>&1)"; ls
19:13
Fun :P :D
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19:33
<r3pek>
guys
19:33
http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Packaging/LtspFS says "cp init-ltsp.d/common/* /usr/share/ltsp/init-ltsp.d"
19:33
but that "common" dir isn't there
19:33
should it be everything on init-ltsp.d/ ?
19:34
<alkisg>
./client/Gentoo/share/ltsp/init-ltsp.d
19:34
./client/share/ltsp/init-ltsp.d
19:35
Packagers should overwrite the files in the common dir with the distro specific files
19:35
The common dir was renamed to what I pasted above
19:49
<r3pek>
ah... ok
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