IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 14 July 2011   (all times are UTC)

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08:35
<rickogden>
morning all
08:37
when I try to log in to a fat client, it restarts the gdm and has "nbd9: unknown partition table" in /var/log/messages, does anyone have any idea what the problem is?
08:43
<alkisg>
rickogden: the problem is that you're using gdm instead of ldm :)
08:45
<rickogden>
sorry, I meant ldm
08:45
"the graphical login screen bit"
08:45
<alkisg>
Ignore the nbd9 warning, it's not relevant
08:45
Do you get an entry in the server /var/log/auth.log for the client trying to login?
08:46
<rickogden>
alkisg: yes I do
08:46
<alkisg>
OK, then it might be that X is crashing. What graphics card on the client, and what on the server?
08:47
<rickogden>
alkisg: it's an onboard intel card
08:47
this was working perfectly until I installed netbeans
08:47
(on the fat client)
08:47
<alkisg>
Hmm, that shouldn't matter, I believe something else caused the problem
08:48
distro/version?
08:48
<rickogden>
Ubuntu 10.04 64 bit
08:48
<alkisg>
With a 32bit chroot?
08:48
<rickogden>
with i386 fat client
08:48
yep
08:48
just out of interest, is the 64 bit chroot stable?
08:49
<alkisg>
I think in general canonical, mozilla, adobe etc etc suggest using 32 bit anywhere
08:49
<rickogden>
ah ok
08:49
<alkisg>
So personally I'm using 32bits even on servers, with pae so that they see all the ram
08:49
OK... for starters, get a local shell on the client:
08:49
!SCREEN_02
08:49
<ltsp>
alkisg: SCREEN_02: to get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using%20a%20shell%20SCREEN.
08:49
<rickogden>
just some of the terminals have 4gb of RAM, and with it being a fat client I wondered if it would be worth it
08:50
<alkisg>
You could put a -pae kernel in the chroot
08:50
<rickogden>
alkisg: already got that
08:50
I'm logged in as root on the client
08:50
<alkisg>
But for casual use, 3 or 4 GB RAM don't make a difference to clients
08:50
OK. What's the output of `lcpci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA` ?
08:51
*lspci
08:52
<rickogden>
vga compatible controller
08:52
sorry, this test machine isn't an onboard one (sorry) it's an nVidia GeForce 8400gs
08:52
<alkisg>
Right. Let's see if temporarily disabling compiz helps:
08:52
!disable-compiz
08:52
<ltsp>
alkisg: disable-compiz: To disable compiz for all users, run: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity.
08:53
<alkisg>
Run this command as root on the client. It's temporary, it'll go away on the next reboot.
08:53
Then try to login *without rebooting the client*
08:55
<rickogden>
nope, exactly the same
09:10
<alkisg>
rickogden: sorry I was afk. Two questions, (1) does the lspci command above show that the nouveau driver is in use? and (2) do other clients work?
09:12
<rickogden>
1) yes 2) not tried, as I'm only testing it with one test client at the moment (and it used to work)
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09:15
<alkisg>
rickogden: ok, try with another client, it's the fastest way to see if the problem is X related or not
09:15
Even a virtual one (e.g. vbox) would do
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09:20
<rickogden>
alkisg: just tried a different client with different graphics card and processor
09:20
and mother
09:20
board
09:20
and it did exactly the same thing
09:21
<alkisg>
OK. Can you (1) also try with another user, and (2) check the ~/.xsession-errors file, or pastebin it?
09:21
I assume that you didn't get any apt-related errors when you installed netbeans, right?
09:21
<rickogden>
alkisg: I already checked with a variety of different users
09:22
<alkisg>
Because netbeans, java etc shouldn't be at all related to login problems
09:22
But if e.g. you got a prompt to select between gdm and ldm, and you selected gdm, then that would make a difference
09:22
<rickogden>
and should the .xsession-errors file be on the client or the server?
09:22
<alkisg>
The same
09:22
On the server, and it's mounted on the client with sshfs
09:23
Btw you're using sshfs, not nfs, right?
09:23
(the default is sshfs)
09:23
<rickogden>
alkisg: I'm using the default which I think is sshfs
09:24
ok, if I do a tail -f on the .xsession-errors file and try to log in, nothing is added
09:25
it doesn't look like it's getting as far as mounting the sshfs
09:28
ah ok, getting an output now
09:28
<alkisg>
You did say you got a login at /var/log/auth.log on the server, right?
09:28
<rickogden>
id: cannot find name for user ID 1007
09:29
X Error of failed request: BadValue (integer parameter out of range for operation)
09:30
Failed to start message bus: Memory allocation failure in message bus
09:30
EOF in dbus-launch reading address from bus daemon
09:30
<alkisg>
That doesn't sound good. Are you using something non-standard wrt user accounts? LDAP or anything/
09:31
<rickogden>
I am using LDAP, but this isn't an LDAP user
09:31
I've tried both LDAP and non-ldap and both are the same
09:31
I can ssh in fine
09:32
<alkisg>
If you run this as root on the client, you don't see any output, right? pgrep gdm
09:32
While this does give you output: pgrep ldm
09:33
<rickogden>
alkisg: correct
09:36
<alkisg>
rickogden: from ldm, go to the preferences button, and select the "xterm" session there.
09:36
Then try to login. Does the xterm session work?
09:36
<rickogden>
alkisg: I've already been through them all and all have the same result
09:37
<alkisg>
I suspect something goes wrong with the logic that copies the user accounts from the server to the client
09:37
E.g. if you had a syntax error in your server /etc/passwd, maybe the bash script that handles it would choke on that
09:38
And would result in no user accounts being transfered to the client
09:38
<rickogden>
the cursor changes to "working" then the whole screen goes black apart from a text cursor in the top left hand corner, then the ldm starts back up
09:38
<alkisg>
But debugging that is a little tricky to do over irc
09:38
<rickogden>
alkisg: right
09:39
strange how you can log in locally, via ssh and via nx perfectly though?
09:39
I've not altered any of the user settings at all
09:39
I might just recreate the fat-client from scratch
09:40
<alkisg>
But you say that you can login from ldm too
09:41
I.e. you see an entry in the server auth.log
09:41
Logging in isn't the problem; maybe getting the user accounts list is the problem
09:42
<rickogden>
when I try to login using ltsp it is logged, then says "subsystem request for sftp" and then "Received disconnect from..."
09:44
<alkisg>
Yup, that sounds like it's failing *after* login. And the message about the missing uid makes me thing about the bash script that handles user transfer
09:44
<rickogden>
yeah
09:44
and yet the only thing changed between it working and it not working is the running of ./netbeans-install.sh on the chroot
09:45* rickogden seriously considers version controlling the chroot directory
09:46
<alkisg>
If I had to guess, I'd guess that the problem is on the server, not in the chroot. E.g. a malformed /etc/passwd.
09:46
Anyway, gotta go, later... :)
09:47
<rickogden>
thanks for all your help alkisg!
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09:48
<Hyperbyte>
!alkisg
09:48
<ltsp>
Hyperbyte: alkisg: The LTSP oracle. Our beacon of hope in the world of LTSP. With the guidance of this divine emperor, we shall prevail..
09:48
<Hyperbyte>
All hail alkisg.
09:48
<rickogden>
agreed
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11:12
<blkdg>
hi, i am looking at k12ltsp. can i just download the live demo, burn to dvd and reboot? will i then have server capabilities, and machines with pxe can boot from me?
11:20
thanks anyhow
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11:42
<pedronveloso>
hi
11:52
<Hyperbyte>
Hey there
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12:52
<mgariepy>
good morning everyone
12:52
<andygraybeal>
heya, morning :)
12:54
<Hyperbyte>
Afternoon. :)
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12:56
<andygraybeal>
hi Hyperbyte :))
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15:07
<knipwim>
Hyperbyte: enjoying the weather?
15:09
<Hyperbyte>
Heh
15:09
Not this morning, no.
15:10
Had to go to city hall first, for passport... (going on vacation to Norway in august)
15:10
Which is the other direction from work...
15:10
Ended up spending a little under an hour on my scooter in the rain...
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15:18
<toddobryan>
Hey all! I'm using LTSP on Ubuntu and have a mixed environment with thin and fat clients.
15:19
I've tried setting the PATH variable in /etc/environment and /etc/profile on the fat client image, but the setting doesn't take.
15:19
When students open the terminal, the PATH is still the default value.
15:21
(I teach programming, so students use the terminal quite a bit.)
15:24
<alkisg>
toddobryan: afaik ldm doesn't source /etc/profile, that's why it doesn't work
15:24
search launchpad, there's a bug report about it + a workaround
15:24
<toddobryan>
OK...I'll go look.
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15:26
<toddobryan>
Is ldm LightDM?
15:27
<alkisg>
!ldm
15:27
<ltsp>
alkisg: I do not know about 'ldm', but I do know about these similar topics: 'ldm-trunk', 'ldm-source', 'ldm-dualhead', 'ldm-po'
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15:28
<alkisg>
!learn ldm as LDM is the LTSP Display Manager, required for LTSP thin/fat clients, because it authenticates the users to the server via SSH.
15:28
<ltsp>
alkisg: The operation succeeded.
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15:32
<Hyperbyte>
.
15:33
!lts
15:33
<ltsp>
Hyperbyte: lts: Long Term Support. Ubuntu usually releases one of these every two years. Instead of the 18 months support period, these are supported 5 years for server packages and 3 years for desktop packages. So far, that's: 6.06 (now end of support), 8.04 (only supported for servers) and 10.04. The next one will be 12.04..
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15:48
<toddobryan>
alkisg: Shouldn't a PATH setting in /etc/environment work? Do you think it's getting reset somewhere later?
15:55
<alkisg>
toddobryan: which /etc/environment? in the server or in the chroot?
15:55
<toddobryan>
The chroot.
15:56
Or do I need to set it in the server?
15:56
Or both.
15:56
I can do both...
15:56
:-)
15:56
<alkisg>
Did you update your chroot? If you cat /etc/environment on a fat client, is it there?
15:56
<toddobryan>
It is, and it has the correct PATH in the file.
15:57
But if you echo $PATH in the terminal, it's just the default PATH.
15:57
<alkisg>
I think that currently it should be working for fat clients, but not for thin...
15:58
<toddobryan>
I'll be at school tomorrow and will check everything to make sure, but I don't think it's working for fat clients.
15:58* alkisg is too deep into delphi code to task-swtch to ltsp code right now :D
15:59
<toddobryan>
Thanks. If you have time to look into it later, I'd appreciate it.
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16:59
<nivardus>
when attempting to boot a fat client it disconnects after nbd recieves the size of the file/device http://paste2.org/p/1520314 DHCP and everything else seems fine, ubuntu boot screen appears momentarily the first attempt
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17:05
<alkisg>
!quiet-splash | echo nivardus:
17:05
<ltsp>
nivardus: quiet-splash: to disable the splash screen in Ubuntu, in order to see any boot error messages, run `sudo gedit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default` and remove quiet splash ..
17:10
<dgroos>
alkisg: you really are advancing this !thing...
17:11
nice idea/time saver.
17:12
<alkisg>
Hey dgroos, how are you? Yeah it helps, most people here have reoccuring questions
17:13
<nivardus>
alkisg and ltsp: not much more to go by: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-9o3OM983y_k/Th8jWi012eI/AAAAAAAAAYQ/M8bjsBIf4ZE/s640/IMG_20110714_131125.jpg
17:14
<alkisg>
nivardus: first, ltsp is a helper bot that just remembers things and tell them back when someone instructs it,
17:15
and second, this screenshot tells that the nbd disconnection *isn't* the problem
17:15
<dgroos>
alkisg: Pretty good, busy with my summer :)
17:15
<alkisg>
Just before logon, a deliberate nbd connection/disconnection happens. So ignore that warning.
17:15
<dgroos>
How are you doing?
17:15
<alkisg>
So, moving on, it might be an X related problem. Can you try putting SCREEN_07=shell in your lts.conf ?
17:16
dgroos: fine - unfortunately too busy with my phd. Fortunately I won't miss my vacations because of it :D
17:19
<dgroos>
alkisg: Good. I'm taking off next year from teaching to finish mine--do dissertation.
17:19
...though it is filling up my summer some.
17:27
<nivardus>
alkisg: after defining SCREEN_07=shell in my image's default lts.conf area behavior is unchanged.
17:30
actually no, it's loading lts.conf from tftpboot/ltsp/i386 instead of the fatclient image's directory. I have a prompt
17:30
at least now I can troubleshoot the x problem, thanks :)
17:32
<alkisg>
!whatis nomodeset | echo nivardus
17:32
<ltsp>
nivardus nomodeset: Unfortunately, Kernel Mode Setting (KMS) doesn't work well with some cards. To disable it, open /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default and replace quiet splash with nomodeset ..
17:32
<alkisg>
Try this, it might help.
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17:50
<nivardus>
alkisg: "init: udev-fallback-graphics main process (1150) terminated with status 1 \n init: gdm main process (1164) killed by TERM signal" am I missing drivers?
17:51
or maybe shell issues from 11.04
17:54
<alkisg>
nivardus: lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA
17:55
This will tell you your graphics card + driver in use
17:55
What's the output?
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17:57
<nivardus>
Intel Corporation 82945G/GZ Integrated Graphics Controller [8086:2772] (rev 02) \n Subsystem: Dell Device [1028:01ad] \n Kernel modules: intelfb, i915
17:58
I started x manually I'm on the desktop on the ltsp client atm, mm
18:05
<alkisg>
nivardus: gdm? You shouldn't have gdm on the client, you should be using ldm instead
18:05
cat /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/default-display-manager
18:06
What do you have there?
18:07
<nivardus>
/usr/sbin/ldm but in my fatclient chroot, maybe it's loading from i386 even though I've set it to boot the fatclient image in dhcpd.conf
18:08
<alkisg>
You don't need 2 separate images, one fat chroot can serve both thin + fat clients
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18:09
<alkisg>
To see which image it loaded, on SCREEN_07=shell, cat /etc/ltsp_fat_chroot
18:11
<nivardus>
the fat client path is in ltsp_chroot not ltsp_fat_chroot so it's being loaded as a thin client I presume...
18:18
starting ldm manually: GLib-CRITICAL **: g_strsplit: assertion 'string != NULL' failed \n No such file or directory: No such file or directory...
18:19
<alkisg>
OK so to sum up, you're having problems with X on a thin chroot, right? You want to troubleshoot this? Or you want to try with the fat chroot instead? What do you have in your lts.conf currently?
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18:23
<nivardus>
SCREEN_07=shell is the only argument (in [default] )
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18:29
<nivardus>
I need to head out, but thank you very much for your patience and advice, alkisg. I think some of the issues may be from using ltsp server on an existing desktop machine, as I'm not sure why it would be trying gdm otherwise
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18:31
<Hyperbyte>
Speaking of !quiet-splash... I disabled the splashscreen on my LTSP installation, and me, as well as collegues, have the notion that the clients boot much faster
18:31
Is this between our ears, or do they really boot faster?
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22:32
<ball>
Is LTSP used with a variety of host Linux distributions? Are there a few that are most prevalent?
22:36
<Hyperbyte>
ball: LTSP should run be able to run on any Linux distribution, but setup will be difficult
22:37
Ubuntu, Debian and Fedora have best LTSP integration, for easy installation.
22:37
Debian I haven't tried, but supposed to be good. Fedora's integration is outdated, doesn't work anymore since Fedora 12 without tweaking
22:38
Ubuntu has a special LTSP spin, Edubuntu.
22:38
It's what I'm using after having ditched Fedora.
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22:48
<andygraybeal>
Hyperbyte, i'm interested in the quicker load without the splash answer also :)
22:49
<ball>
I wonder if Xubuntu have it as an option.
22:49
<Hyperbyte>
!quiet-splash | echo andygraybeal
22:49
<ltsp>
andygraybeal quiet-splash: to disable the splash screen in Ubuntu, in order to see any boot error messages, run `sudo gedit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default` and remove quiet splash ..
22:50
<Hyperbyte>
Not sure if it's quicker load though... it *seemed* quicker, but that could just be imagination. Let me know what your experience is. :)
22:50
<andygraybeal>
Hyperbyte, oh i mean you never got an answer as if it makes a difference on load time
22:50
*cool
22:50
<Hyperbyte>
ball, LTSP is included in default Ubuntu distributions
22:50
<andygraybeal>
aah i don't want to do it unless i hear more :)
22:50
<Hyperbyte>
apt-get install ltsp-server I believe
22:50
Edubuntu just has it as option during installation, and sets up the entire server and client ready-to-go.
22:51
andygraybeal, you could just try it, see how it works. In the file above, there's two options 'splash' and 'quiet'. 'splash' enables/disabled the splash screen during boot, 'quiet' enables/disables debug messages
22:52
Easily remove, easily put back. :)
22:52
*removed
22:52
<andygraybeal>
aah okay cool
22:52
<Hyperbyte>
To me it seemed faster, but it could just be that, because you're not staring at a white screen with "Ubuntu" on it, but rather some boot messages scrolling by, that it seems to go quicker
22:53
Or it could be because my thin clients have problems with setting the proper video mode during the splash screen and disabling it saves them time figuring out the video mode... I haven't looked into it that much yet, just experimented a little today. :)
22:53
I'm gonna sleep, g'night all. :)
22:55
<andygraybeal>
night night :)
23:00
<ball>
I didn't mind the Is it difficult to configure?
23:00
oops
23:00
I walked away from the keyboard mid-thought there.
23:01
That's what happens when the office manager gets talking about air conditioning.
23:02
I should start reading some LTSP documentation from the sound of things.
23:02
The server has two Ethernet ports. I'll use one to connect to the Internet (via an existing LAN) and the other will be for the terminals.
23:04
How difficult is it to create an image for each terminal type?
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23:16
<andygraybeal>
depends, are most of them i386?
23:17* ball nods
23:18
<ball>
Two types: one is a VIA EPIA M10000 "Nehemiah" board with 1 Gbyte RAM and Unichrome graphics, the other type is Compaq iPaq legacy-free.
23:19
(with probably 1M RAM, Intel graphics)
23:19
Both PXE-capable.
23:31
<TheMatrix3000>
how would i make ltsp redundant?
23:34
<ball>
Invent something better ;-)
23:34
I'm guessing you want fail-over though
23:34
...between different hosts, perhaps
23:36
<TheMatrix3000>
what if i did ltsp-cluster
23:36
with 2 application servers
23:36
the goal is to provide lots of uptime
23:36
<ball>
That's what I would like to do, eventually.
23:39
I have found it difficult getting straight answers about the practicality of that though, sadly.
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23:43
<ball>
...and a consultant would cost more than the second server.
23:54
<TheMatrix3000>
yea :(
23:55
is it possible though?
23:55
<ball>
Probably.
23:55
<TheMatrix3000>
andygraybeal: all are i386
23:55
<andygraybeal>
TheMatrix3000, should be easy then :)
23:55
<TheMatrix3000>
how?
23:56
how would you make a redundant ltsp settup
23:56
is ltsp-cluster redundant?
23:56
<andygraybeal>
TheMatrix3000, oh i thought you were responding to something eles
23:56
*else
23:56
<TheMatrix3000>
oh
23:56
<ball>
andygraybeal: Mine are all i386 too
23:56
(the terminals and the servers)
23:56
<andygraybeal>
ball, that's who i was responding too
23:56
:)))
23:56
<TheMatrix3000>
ahhh
23:56
lol
23:56
yea, i got it lol
23:56
<andygraybeal>
why would you need different images for i386 boxes?
23:56
<TheMatrix3000>
<<<< idiot
23:57
<ball>
andygraybeal: Different graphics chips, processors etc?
23:57
<andygraybeal>
TheMatrix3000, yea, some people in here have ltsp clusters :) i would love to have a fail-over machine too!
23:57
ball, graphics can be handled in lts.conf file
23:58
processors.. you mean like CPUs?
23:58* ball nods
23:58
<andygraybeal>
well.. what is the slowest CPU?
23:58
<ball>
800 MHz Celeron Coppermine
23:58
<andygraybeal>
these machines don't need to be very fast
23:58
<ball>
...or, arguably VIA C3 at 1 GHz ;-)
23:59
<andygraybeal>
celeron... omg. .. umm. my head stopped.. umm..
23:59
i bet you'd be just fine
23:59
i think you don't need different images for the setup.
23:59
are you planning on running as fat or thin clients?
23:59
<ball>
Thin, just graphical terminals.
23:59
<andygraybeal>
yea, you should be fine