IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 27 December 2013   (all times are UTC)

00:10gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host81-130-35-88.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
00:17gbaman has left IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host81-130-35-88.in-addr.btopenworld.com, Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
01:04clepto is now known as ChadLepto
01:14gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host81-130-35-88.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
01:18gbaman has left IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host81-130-35-88.in-addr.btopenworld.com, Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
01:35adrianorg has left IRC (adrianorg!~adrianorg@177.156.58.138, Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
01:37adrianorg has joined IRC (adrianorg!~adrianorg@177.156.58.138)
02:15gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host81-130-35-88.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
02:20gbaman has left IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host81-130-35-88.in-addr.btopenworld.com, Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
03:17gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host81-130-35-88.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
03:18vagrantc has left IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@freegeek/vagrantc, Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:22gbaman has left IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host81-130-35-88.in-addr.btopenworld.com, Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
04:13alkisg has joined IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg)
04:29shogunx has left IRC (shogunx!~shogunx@rrcs-67-79-182-229.se.biz.rr.com, Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
04:29hachque has left IRC (hachque!james@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fe96:5060, Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
04:35cyberorg has joined IRC (cyberorg!~cyberorg@opensuse/member/Cyberorg)
04:40shogunx has joined IRC (shogunx!~shogunx@rrcs-67-79-182-229.se.biz.rr.com)
05:05
<alkisg>
!nfsmount
05:05
<ltsp>
Error: "nfsmount" is not a valid command.
05:11
<cyberorg>
alkisg, hi, we use AOE and we don't use ltsp-update- script
05:11
<alkisg>
cyberorg: nice, could you also tell me your default pxelinux.cfg command line?
05:12
Basically the KERNEL and APPEND lines from there...
05:13
<cyberorg>
https://sourceforge.net/p/kiwi-ltsp/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/kiwi-ltsp/ltsp/include/kiwi-ltsp-functions.sh
05:14
<alkisg>
Ah, very nice, thank you
05:14
<cyberorg>
see setup_pxe() setup_pxe_boot_menu() and after
05:17
pxelinux.cfg/default looks something like this http://cyberorg.co.in/default
05:18
<alkisg>
cyberorg: also, you're not using nbi.img images, are you?
05:18
<cyberorg>
no
05:19
<alkisg>
cyberorg: any real benefits to using aoe vs using nbd?
05:20gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host81-130-35-88.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
05:22
<cyberorg>
nbd has been hit and miss, AOE always worked flawlessly https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=776027
05:24
i think kiwi also supports images over NFS besides plain nfs root export
05:25gbaman has left IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host81-130-35-88.in-addr.btopenworld.com, Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
05:26
<cyberorg>
we use clicfs for ltsp image, but now with squashfs xz will probably go back to using squashfs
05:26
<alkisg>
Ah you're using the old style configuration for nbd, with port numbers instead of image names
05:27
That's been deprecated for years and it might be why it's broken...
05:27
<cyberorg>
yeah, as AOE worked never bothered to move to name based nbd
05:29
if all distros move to single initrd creation tool then common code for ltsp makes sense for this part, may be we should all use dracut :)
05:29
<alkisg>
Did you have problems with AOE and ethernet flow control, on networks with 1 gbps servers and 100 mbps clients?
05:29
cyberorg: I don't think debian and ubuntu can use dracut...
05:30
It's just about pxe configuration though, not about initrd generation
05:30
<cyberorg>
dont have it in your repositories?
05:30
<alkisg>
There's no reason to change a distro default tools just for ltsp
05:30
debian and ubuntu use initramfs-tools, there's no reason for ltsp to try to change that
05:31
If the distros ever decide they want to use a single tool, fine, ltsp will follow then...
05:33
<cyberorg>
"Another issue we currently have in our distribution is maintaining 3 different initrd implementations : mkinitd (for installed system), kiwi (for generated image) and installation initrd (for installer)"
05:33
https://features.opensuse.org/310491
05:35
we now also have dracut available to play with :)
05:38
<alkisg>
I haven't looked into what dracut provides over initramfs-tools that would make debian switch to it...
05:39
I think it was too simplistic and they didn't even consider using it...
05:40
(by default, that is, while it _is_ available as an option...)
05:41
<cyberorg>
yeah, available as option is good, if fedora, gentoo and suse also have it then we can create common script to use dracut to create initrd for ltsp for all distros
05:42
or have it autodetect in ltsp-update- script and use if available
05:42
<alkisg>
Why?
05:42
It's much _less_ work for ltsp to use the distro defaults...
05:44
<cyberorg>
so each distro can have identical features in ltsp implementation, unlike now, we use AOE+clicfs, gentoo uses dracut with something else, ubuntu uses nbd and debian uses nfs
05:44vagrantc has joined IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@freegeek/vagrantc)
05:45
<cyberorg>
either way as long as it works no issues there :)
05:46
<alkisg>
I don't think dracut would help in the ltsp distro-maintainers to agree on a default method to serve the image
05:46
For example, debian and ubuntu both support nfs and nbd out of the box; they just don't agree on which one should be the default
05:47
<cyberorg>
yup :)
05:47* alkisg waves to vagrantc
05:48
<cyberorg>
with common tool at least the choices would be identical, what defaults are used is not important
05:49
but as i said it is not that important
05:49
<alkisg>
I think all initramfs's support all methods... nbd, nfs, aoe...
05:50
<cyberorg>
cool, i thought aoe was missing
05:50
<alkisg>
What we're missing are the ltsp scripts to configure them... we can't rely on kiwi for that
05:50
We should invest on ltsp-config instead
05:52
<cyberorg>
kiwi has no scripts to configure them, that was kiwi-ltsp(scripts to build & configure ltsp using kiwi imaging tool)
05:52
<alkisg>
Right, those are the parts that ltsp developers should agree on
05:53
To provide a common set of tools to configure ltsp even if the underlaying tools are different
05:53
E.g. `ltsp-config aoe` whether one uses initramfs-tools or dracut or anything else...
05:54
<cyberorg>
yeah that would be nice
06:02alkisg has left IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg, Remote host closed the connection)
06:02* vagrantc waves to the now missing alkisg
06:04pppingme has left IRC (pppingme!~pppingme@unaffiliated/pppingme, Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
06:04alkisg has joined IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg)
06:06pppingme has joined IRC (pppingme!~pppingme@unaffiliated/pppingme)
06:13* vagrantc waves to alkisg
06:14
<alkisg>
I'm trying to set up an ltsp-pnp-nfs environment... :P
06:14
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so, for better or worse, i have the symlinks implementation as well as editable pxelinux.cfg/default implementation
06:14
alkisg: mounting the image over NFS?
06:14
<alkisg>
mount --bind / /opt/ltsp/i386 :P
06:14
<vagrantc>
eeyk!
06:15
<alkisg>
mount -o remount,ro /opt/ltsp/i386
06:15
+export :P
06:15
<vagrantc>
nothing excluded at all, eh?
06:15
<alkisg>
Yes... the other file systems like /proc etc aren't there, so I don't see why NFS doesn't like that
06:15
ltsp-pnp should be able to boot off of that
06:16* vagrantc is more worried about leaking secret things from /etc
06:16
<alkisg>
I'm exposing only to my VM subnet
06:16
host-only networking
06:18
<vagrantc>
so only for virtual machines... ?
06:18
just for development testing?
06:19
<alkisg>
Yes
06:19
If that fails, I'll just rsync / to /opt/ltsp/i386 and export that one instead...
06:20
<vagrantc>
the NFS image stuff was pretty cool.
06:22
<alkisg>
I've seen problems with flow control on 1gbps server/ 100 mbps client installations
06:22
if for some reason AoE didn't have those flow control problems, I'd switch to it the same day :)
06:22
<vagrantc>
problems with flow control using what?
06:22
<alkisg>
...those problems make the network 10 times slower...
06:22
<vagrantc>
ouch.
06:22
<alkisg>
Whatever ip-based
06:23
<vagrantc>
ah.
06:23
<alkisg>
probably even ethernet-based, probably
06:23
*s/probably//
06:23
The server tries to send data to pc01, and that one then complains because the server is sending them too fast and its buffers are full,
06:23
the server is then expected to pause for a while and not send data to pc01
06:24
The flow control problem is if the server decides to pause and not send data to _any_ pc :)
06:24
...which is the case in most cheap switches/network cards etc
06:27gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host81-130-35-88.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
06:51
<alkisg>
Whoops it seems 14.04 is having various problems mounting from nfs...
07:16telex has left IRC (telex!~telex@freeshell.de, Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
07:17telex has joined IRC (telex!~telex@freeshell.de)
07:25boospy has joined IRC (boospy!~kvirc@77.235.70.194)
07:28gbaman has left IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host81-130-35-88.in-addr.btopenworld.com, Remote host closed the connection)
07:42vagrantc has left IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@freegeek/vagrantc, *.net *.split)
07:42andygraybeal has left IRC (andygraybeal!~andy@h41.207.213.151.dynamic.ip.windstream.net, *.net *.split)
07:51andygraybeal has joined IRC (andygraybeal!~andy@h41.207.213.151.dynamic.ip.windstream.net)
08:00staffencasa has joined IRC (staffencasa!~staffenca@8-220.ptpg.oregonstate.edu)
08:05vagrantc has joined IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@freegeek/vagrantc)
08:07staffencasa has left IRC (staffencasa!~staffenca@8-220.ptpg.oregonstate.edu, Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
08:21boospy has left IRC (boospy!~kvirc@77.235.70.194, Remote host closed the connection)
08:33khildin has joined IRC (khildin!~khildin@ip-213-49-87-118.dsl.scarlet.be)
08:33vagrantc has left IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@freegeek/vagrantc, Quit: leaving)
08:48freedomrun has joined IRC (freedomrun!~freedomru@unaffiliated/freedomrun)
09:02bennabiy has left IRC (bennabiy!~Thunderbi@24-181-55-79.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com, Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
09:04bennabiy has joined IRC (bennabiy!~Thunderbi@24-181-55-79.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com)
10:02gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host81-130-35-88.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
10:07gbaman has left IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host81-130-35-88.in-addr.btopenworld.com, Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
10:25GrembleBean has joined IRC (GrembleBean!~Ben@cpc35-aztw23-2-0-cust207.18-1.cable.virginm.net)
10:28gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host81-130-35-88.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
11:00Fenuks has joined IRC (Fenuks!~Fenuks@176.51.96.60)
11:48
<alkisg>
!nbd-client
11:48
<ltsp>
nbd-client: To try mounting the NBD image from the client initramfs: nbd-client 192.168.67.1 -N /opt/ltsp/i386 /dev/nbd0
11:54
<alkisg>
cyberorg: do these numbers seem right to you? http://paste.debian.net/72695/
11:54
I.e. is NBD 13 times faster than AoE?
11:54
Or is it a problem with vbox?
12:00
<cyberorg>
alkisg, no idea
12:00* alkisg boots a real client to test...
12:08
<alkisg>
With 100 mbps clients they appear to be about the same... /me wants to test flow control with aoe too
12:16
<cyberorg>
openstack also uses nbd to serve images, wonder if they ran into the issue you are talking about
12:31
<alkisg>
Maybe they want to route them, aoe is local ethernet only
12:33lbssousa_ has joined IRC (lbssousa_!~lbssousa@177.35.173.160)
13:09freedomrun has left IRC (freedomrun!~freedomru@unaffiliated/freedomrun, Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
13:11
<alkisg>
Waaait, so, AoE then doesn't care at all about the IP-based networking, right?!
13:11
We could allow network manager to manage the network cards of the clients, then...
13:59freedomrun has joined IRC (freedomrun!~freedomru@unaffiliated/freedomrun)
14:05
<alkisg>
http://metsahovi.aalto.fi/en/research/projects/vlbi_research/mro/ata/
14:17freedomrun has left IRC (freedomrun!~freedomru@unaffiliated/freedomrun, Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
14:20dsugar100 has joined IRC (dsugar100!~dsugar@columbia.tresys.com)
14:46alexqwesa has joined IRC (alexqwesa!~alex@109.172.12.47)
14:54cliebow has joined IRC (cliebow!~cliebow@WatchGuard.ellsworth-hs.ellsworth.k12.me.us)
14:58dsugar100 has left IRC (dsugar100!~dsugar@columbia.tresys.com, Remote host closed the connection)
15:13andygraybeal has left IRC (andygraybeal!~andy@h41.207.213.151.dynamic.ip.windstream.net, Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
15:22dsugar100 has joined IRC (dsugar100!~dsugar@columbia.tresys.com)
15:25andygraybeal has joined IRC (andygraybeal!~andy@h107.218.213.151.dynamic.ip.windstream.net)
15:27staffencasa has joined IRC (staffencasa!~staffenca@8-220.ptpg.oregonstate.edu)
15:38gbaman has left IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host81-130-35-88.in-addr.btopenworld.com, Remote host closed the connection)
15:59freedomrun has joined IRC (freedomrun!~freedomru@unaffiliated/freedomrun)
15:59
<bennabiy>
vagrantc: You here?
16:05freedomrun has left IRC (freedomrun!~freedomru@unaffiliated/freedomrun, Excess Flood)
16:09freedomrun has joined IRC (freedomrun!~freedomru@unaffiliated/freedomrun)
16:10gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host81-130-35-88.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
16:16gbaman has left IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host81-130-35-88.in-addr.btopenworld.com, Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
16:22lbssousa_ has left IRC (lbssousa_!~lbssousa@177.35.173.160, Quit: Saindo)
16:30
<alkisg>
!learn overlayfs as modprobe overlayfs; mount -t overlayfs -o upperdir=/cow,lowerdir=/rofs overlayfs /root
16:30
<ltsp>
The operation succeeded.
17:00
<ogra_`>
is that mainline yet ? else you should probably add a note
17:01
(i know it was proposed for 3.10 ... but dont know if it actually landed)
17:01
<alkisg>
No idea, it's there as a module on ubuntu though
17:01
Add a note where?
17:02
<ogra_`>
to the bot response ...
17:02
that it is only available in certain distros and from a certain kernel version on
17:02
(ubuntu has it as distro patch since years ... others wont)
17:09
<alkisg>
Ah, never mind, it was just a personal note...
17:10
<ogra_`>
ah, k
17:10
<alkisg>
Yeah others are still using aufs, it has a lot less problems
17:10
overlayfs is too buggy
17:10
<ogra_`>
overlayfs is the upstream way
17:10
<alkisg>
"to be"
17:10
<ogra_`>
well, it was proposed for 3.10
17:10
and linus agreed to pull it in
17:10
but i dont know if he actually did
17:11
<alkisg>
Until it's upstream and stable, I'd much rather keep using aufs instead of getting problems with ssh sockets etc..
17:33PhoenixSTF has joined IRC (PhoenixSTF!~rudi@78.29.154.124)
17:33alexqwesa has left IRC (alexqwesa!~alex@109.172.12.47, Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
17:49Fenuks has left IRC (Fenuks!~Fenuks@176.51.96.60, Quit: KVIrc 4.3.1 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/)
17:52
<alkisg>
So, steps to use AoE on Debian/Ubuntu thin clients:
17:52
1) (server)# apt-get install vblade; vblade -r 0 0 eth0 /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img (or edit /etc/vblade.conf)
17:52
2) (chroot)# echo aoe >> /etc/initramfs-tools/modules; update-initramfs -u; (server)# ltsp-update-kernels
17:52
3) remove nfs/nbd from pxelinux.cfg/default, and put this: root=/dev/etherd/e0.0
17:54
I'll put some support for (2) and (3) in ltsp-trunk, instead of having to do them manually...
18:09GrembleBean has left IRC (GrembleBean!~Ben@cpc35-aztw23-2-0-cust207.18-1.cable.virginm.net, Quit: I Leave)
18:12gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host81-130-35-88.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
18:18gbaman has left IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host81-130-35-88.in-addr.btopenworld.com, Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
18:26gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host81-130-35-88.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
19:15prpplague has joined IRC (prpplague!~danders@rrcs-97-77-26-26.sw.biz.rr.com)
19:29staffencasa has left IRC (staffencasa!~staffenca@8-220.ptpg.oregonstate.edu, Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
19:31staffencasa has joined IRC (staffencasa!~staffenca@8-220.ptpg.oregonstate.edu)
19:40cliebow has left IRC (cliebow!~cliebow@WatchGuard.ellsworth-hs.ellsworth.k12.me.us, Remote host closed the connection)
19:53Phantomas has joined IRC (Phantomas!~Phantomas@ubuntu/member/phantomas)
19:59telex has left IRC (telex!~telex@freeshell.de, Remote host closed the connection)
20:00telex has joined IRC (telex!~telex@freeshell.de)
20:08prpplague has left IRC (prpplague!~danders@rrcs-97-77-26-26.sw.biz.rr.com, Quit: Leaving)
20:24PhoenixSTF has left IRC (PhoenixSTF!~rudi@78.29.154.124, Quit: Leaving)
20:31khildin has left IRC (khildin!~khildin@ip-213-49-87-118.dsl.scarlet.be, Remote host closed the connection)
20:34khildin has joined IRC (khildin!~khildin@ip-213-49-87-118.dsl.scarlet.be)
20:35alexqwesa has joined IRC (alexqwesa!~alex@109.172.12.47)
20:40alkisg has left IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg, Quit: Leaving.)
20:44staffencasa has left IRC (staffencasa!~staffenca@8-220.ptpg.oregonstate.edu, Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
20:45Phantomas has left IRC (Phantomas!~Phantomas@ubuntu/member/phantomas, Quit: Leaving.)
21:10vagrantc has joined IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@freegeek/vagrantc)
21:15ChadLepto has left IRC (ChadLepto!~chadlepto@unaffiliated/chadlepto, Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
21:33khildin has left IRC (khildin!~khildin@ip-213-49-87-118.dsl.scarlet.be, Quit: I'm gone, bye bye)
21:45staffencasa has joined IRC (staffencasa!~staffenca@8-220.ptpg.oregonstate.edu)
22:07staffencasa has left IRC (staffencasa!~staffenca@8-220.ptpg.oregonstate.edu, Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
22:09staffencasa has joined IRC (staffencasa!~staffenca@8-220.ptpg.oregonstate.edu)
22:19staffencasa has left IRC (staffencasa!~staffenca@8-220.ptpg.oregonstate.edu, Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
22:24staffencasa has joined IRC (staffencasa!~staffenca@8-220.ptpg.oregonstate.edu)
22:31gbaman has left IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host81-130-35-88.in-addr.btopenworld.com, Remote host closed the connection)
22:32gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host81-130-35-88.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
22:36gbaman has left IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host81-130-35-88.in-addr.btopenworld.com, Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
22:42gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host81-130-35-88.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
23:27Phantomas has joined IRC (Phantomas!~Phantomas@athedsl-91742.home.otenet.gr)
23:27Phantomas has joined IRC (Phantomas!~Phantomas@ubuntu/member/phantomas)
23:42gbaman has left IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host81-130-35-88.in-addr.btopenworld.com, Remote host closed the connection)
23:55vagrantc has left IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@freegeek/vagrantc, Quit: leaving)
23:59vagrantc has joined IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@freegeek/vagrantc)