IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 25 January 2011   (all times are UTC)

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02:08
<gnunux>
hi
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06:51
<tech_dvo>
anybody knows how to trouble shoot -- "not enough memory to load image" error?
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07:10
<Appiah>
tech_dvo: when does this error show up?
07:11
<tech_dvo>
during initram...wait
07:13
Loading initrd.img
07:13
Not enough memory to load specified image
07:14
<Appiah>
at PXE boot...
07:17
tech_dvo: what client(s) gets this error?
07:18
<tech_dvo>
celeron mainboard computers with 256mb ram
07:19
<Appiah>
I relate this to a kernel issue... (think I've seen it before and has nothing to do with LTSP)
07:19
what dist are you using?
07:19
<tech_dvo>
ubuntu 10.10
07:20
does that mean -- my thin client can't boot with ubunt 10.10?
07:21
or do I need to build a specific "kernel" for this kind of thin clients --w/c is more work as I have yet to experience building kernel :)
07:21
<muppis>
No, I got same kind of client which works fine with 10.10.
07:21
<Appiah>
did you change anything in the chroot?
07:21
<muppis>
Nope.
07:21
<Appiah>
asking tech_dvo :)
07:22
<muppis>
:P
07:22
<mgariepy>
tech_dvo, did you ran a memtest to make sure your memory is fine ?
07:22
<tech_dvo>
am not yet very familiar with what I did with chroot but I may have touch chroot
07:22
<muppis>
And I didn't read the nick.
07:22
<Appiah>
can you try to rebuild it ? ltsp-build-image
07:22
<alkisg>
Are you using etherboot or gpxe, and what version?
07:22
<tech_dvo>
did not run memtest -- can i do that over ltsp?
07:23
alkisg: I am using the program you gave me last week --
07:23
<alkisg>
Which program is that?
07:24
<tech_dvo>
it runs fine on types of thin clients already: ltsp-loader_0.6.21.exe
07:24
<alkisg>
Ah, so gpxe
07:24
<tech_dvo>
two types
07:25
<alkisg>
Maybe it's a problem with pxelinux, try loading the kernel directly
07:25
Press ctrl+b to gpxe to get a prompt
07:25
Run: dhcp net0
07:25
<tech_dvo>
okay -- will do that
07:25
<Appiah>
http://syslinux.zytor.com/archives/2008-July/010462.html
07:26
<alkisg>
dhcp net0
07:26
# Put the LTSP server IP in the following line
07:26
set next-server 10.160.31.10
07:26
kernel tftp://${next-server}/ltsp/i386/vmlinuz ro initrd=initrd.img nbdroot=${next-server}:2000 nbd_proxy=false
07:26
initrd tftp://${next-server}/ltsp/i386/initrd.img
07:26
boot vmlinuz
07:26
With those commands you boot the kernel directly, bypassing pxelinux.0
07:27
So if it's a pxelinux bug, you can either search for a newer/patched version, or bypass it completely.
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07:30
<tech_dvo>
ok
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07:41
<tech_dvo>
alkisg: I get connection time out in kernel tftp:..... part
07:43
<alkisg>
tech_dvo: did you put the correct IP there?
07:43
<tech_dvo>
yup 10.160.31.10
07:43
did it twice
07:43
same error
07:43
<alkisg>
That's my ip
07:43
Not yours
07:43
What's your server ip?
07:43
<tech_dvo>
i see -- 192.168.1.200
07:43
<alkisg>
Right, put that one
07:47
<tech_dvo>
initrd=initrd.img
07:47
command not found
07:47
i erase the = sign
07:48
i get the error initrd.img File not found (0x2d12603b)
07:48
<alkisg>
I didn't write such a command
07:48
I wrote this:
07:48
kernel tftp://${next-server}/ltsp/i386/vmlinuz ro initrd=initrd.img nbdroot=${next-server}:2000 nbd_proxy=false
07:48
That's ALL IN ONE LINE
07:48
<tech_dvo>
i see -- its just one command ok
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07:58
<tech_dvo>
alkisg: after boot vmlinuz ...... I get error
07:59
Begin:Running /scripts/nfs-bottom... chroot: can't execute '/usr/bin/test': Exec format error
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07:59
<tech_dvo>
chroot: can't execute '/usr/bin/getltscfg':Exec format error...
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08:57
<garymc>
hi guys anyone know of an app for my macbook pro that I can load and I can be on my ltsp server aswell as my mac?
08:57
so i dont have to turn off the mac and pxe boot?
09:00
<evil_root>
you could ssh to your server and then your on your ltsp
09:00
but you want a virtual thin client on your macbook?
09:04
garymc?
09:04
<garymc>
sorry im here
09:04
yes virtual client
09:05
<evil_root>
i am 99% sure vmware fusion allows network boot
09:05
PXE boot
09:09
<garymc>
is that while I run all my other programs
09:11
<evil_root>
you should be able to yes
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09:29
<fly23>
hi
09:30
<evil_root>
hi
09:31
<fly23>
i've got a problem with ltsp clients
09:31
dhcp works, pxe works, tftpd works
09:31
i386.img distributed via nbd, works fine
09:32
login seems to work too, but system hangs after user credentials
09:33
.xsession-errors in the users home dir says something about 'cannot open display: localhost:11.0'
09:34
<Gadi>
fly23: have you tried disabling compiz?
09:34
!disable_compiz
09:34
<ltspbot>
Gadi: "disable_compiz" :: To disable compiz, try: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
09:36
<fly23>
does it disable compiz for every user?
09:37
<Gadi>
yes
09:37
<fly23>
hm, nice
09:37
seems to work ;)
09:38
big thanks! you saved my evening
09:38
<Gadi>
pleasure
09:38
sorry your thin clients won't be rotating cubes
09:38
:)
09:39
<fly23>
na, no problem
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09:48
<mistik1>
hello
09:54
<Gadi>
mistik1: !!
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10:02
<garymc>
so anyone know of a free software or something else that will let me login to my LTSP via my mac as you have to pay for vmware fusion
10:03
<fly23>
is there any virtualbox/qemu for mac ?
10:09
hm, is nbd-server supposed to be sitting in every rc?.d ? i thought it has to be summoned via inetd like tftp
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10:20
<mistik1>
hey Gadi
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13:15
<robehend1>
woo, ltsp saved the day again today
13:16
windows machines crapped out on me, had to have a class of 30 kids come into the lab in 20 minutes. Just booted to the network, logged them into LTSp, and it worked slick
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13:32
<robehend1>
say, random question. Running some 10.04 fat clients, and they keep randomly freezing. any idea?
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13:41
<robehend1>
alkisg: say, alkisg, you ever have difficulties with your fat-clients freezing up/
13:41
<alkisg>
Only with nfs /home with locks
13:42
statd problems, I solved them with "-o nolock"
13:42
<robehend1>
fat-clients, by default, use sshfs homes, correct?
13:42
<alkisg>
Correct
13:42
<robehend1>
hmm, weird.
13:43
<alkisg>
Ah, in a lab a person had problems with atl cards. Hmm but this too was nfs-specific.
13:43
<robehend1>
I'll have to figure out what the kids mean by "freezing up". Perhaps its just a program acting stupid.
13:43
<alkisg>
I've seen several freezes with KMS too
13:43
<robehend1>
these are all onboard intel, seems to run slick
13:43
<alkisg>
Many of them solved with "nomodeset"
13:43
<robehend1>
kms?
13:43
<alkisg>
Which intels?
13:43
8xx have a *lot* of problems with Kernel Mode Setting (kms) etc
13:43
<robehend1>
i'd have to dig into one to tell you, but there 5+ years old
13:44
which would be around the 8xx/9xx series..
13:44
<alkisg>
If it's 855, the main problem was solved a week ago upstream
13:44
If it's 845, try maverick, I don't know why but it's more stable there, it crashes on Lucid
13:44
<robehend1>
hmm
13:44
<alkisg>
9xx should be fine though
13:45
<robehend1>
i've been meaning to rebuild my chroot anyways, i guess. only reason I havent is becuase of having difficulties with Sabayon, and i dont want to deal with profiles again
13:45
<alkisg>
Start with: lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA
13:46
If you have 855, you'll need a kernel from a PPA in the chroot, so rebuilding won't help
13:46
<robehend1>
dont have a client in front of me, sadly. i'll have to wait until the kids are done for the day before I can commandeer one
13:46
<alkisg>
Didn't you say you installed sch-scripts?
13:47
Right click on a client and select "root terminal, locally"
13:47
<robehend1>
*smacks self in head*
13:47
<alkisg>
This way you'll get a client root shell in your own client
13:47
<robehend1>
woah. ran sch-scripts, big erros
13:49
alkisg: http://ltsp.pastebin.com/dfm3dsyC
13:50
<alkisg>
How did you run it? ssh to the server and exec sch-scripts?
13:50
<robehend1>
yep
13:50
<alkisg>
No display there :)
13:50
<robehend1>
bah
13:50
<alkisg>
Try ssh -X
13:51
<robehend1>
did that, same thing
13:51
<alkisg>
Does gedit work?
13:51
<robehend1>
nope. i've screwed something up with my displays it seems
13:52
probably when i was attempting to learn how to do vnc over ssh
13:52
<alkisg>
Erm, meaning?
13:53
Won't neatx or freenx fit the bill better there?
13:53
Or you want to share an *existing* X screen?
13:53
<robehend1>
it was more of a "wonder if i could do this" mentallity
13:53* alkisg doesn't go into such places :D
13:53
<robehend1>
i'm learning not to ;)
13:54
now to figure out how to stop and redo what i've done. after i figure out what i've done ;)
13:58
on the plus side, i'd been meaning to roll from ubuntu to edubuntu, so that works nicely ;0
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14:22
<robehend1>
alkisg: do you know of any way to limit the amount of ram a fat-client can consume? I remember when you used Localapps that firefox and such could eat up all the ram of the thin-client, and that caused crashes..wondering if it could be the same here
14:23
<alkisg>
robehend1: try putting a 512MB NBD swap
14:23
That should solve all your ram-related problems
14:23
<robehend1>
alkisg: and i would do that by..
14:23
<alkisg>
NBD_SWAP=True in lts.conf
14:23
<robehend1>
hmm, alright. easy enough
14:23
<alkisg>
And: $ cat /etc/ltsp/nbdswapd.conf
14:23
SIZE=512
14:24
<robehend1>
ah, ok. do i have to create a new nbd sharepoint on the server as well?
14:24
<alkisg>
No it should already be there
14:24
<highvoltage>
alkisg: talking of ram on thin clients...
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14:24
<robehend1>
the cat command gets run on the server, or chrooted into the client
14:24
<alkisg>
And those files are sparse so don't get scared if you see 50 x 500 MB in /tmp :D
14:24
Server
14:24
No chroot involved
14:24
<mgariepy>
alkisg, does the hosts.allow is necessary ?
14:25
<highvoltage>
alkisg: didn't you have a fix or workaround for limiting X memory usage on thin clients as well? (I might have the wrong end of the stick here so forgive me if I do)
14:25
<mgariepy>
nbdswapd: ALL: keepalive
14:25
<robehend1>
ah, ok. I'm assuming that if it starts swapping, it'll slow down dramatically?
14:25
<alkisg>
robehend1: not for the first 50-100 Mb (depending on use)
14:25
<robehend1>
hmm. alright. worth a shot, anyways
14:25
<highvoltage>
robehend1: it's only slightly slow while it's actually swapping, but having something slightly slow for half a second is a lot better than your whole session being destroyed :)
14:25
<alkisg>
After some critical amount of swapping, it gets reeeeally slow
14:26
As in, 2 minutes to open a menu
14:26
<robehend1>
hmm
14:26
hopefully it wont get that bad then ;)
14:26
so uh..that nbdswap.conf file doesnt exist ;)
14:26
<alkisg>
mgariepy: there are 2 uses for hosts.allow, one is for security and the other (keepalive) is to allow the daemon to shutdown if the client hangs
14:26
robehend1: create it
14:27
<robehend1>
wow. I am slow today, aren't I.
14:27
does it need [Default] like lts.conf, or just SIZE=512
14:27
<alkisg>
highvoltage: limiting X memory usage will get firefox to crash, right? I prefer to increase NBD swap and make it a little slower but not crash
14:27
robehend1: just SIZE=512
14:27
(it's a shell file, don't put spaces)
14:27
<robehend1>
alrighty, thanks :D
14:28
yep, no spaces. hopefully this fixes the "oh gods it breaking call IT call IT" messages
14:28
<highvoltage>
alkisg: yeah, it would eventually cause firefox to crash, but I'd give it a very high limit (as in, close to system memory), if I'd do something like that
14:28
<alkisg>
highvoltage: e.g. I tested firefox with some web pages that needed 500 MB RAM, and the client had only 256
14:29
After 30 secs or 1 minute firefox was done rendering, and everything was fast again
14:29
Removing compcache also helps there
14:29
<robehend1>
ooo, how you do that ;)
14:29
i'm all for speed
14:29
<alkisg>
As it gives an extra 25% of RAM to the clients
14:29
<highvoltage>
ah, I think that was what I was looking for
14:29
<alkisg>
nocompcache in pxelinux.cfg/default
14:29
<highvoltage>
how do I do that?
14:29
<robehend1>
nice
14:30
<highvoltage>
ok, just as a kernel line parameter?
14:30
<alkisg>
Right. We put that specifically to help LTSP clients, but I think it does more harm than good, maybe stgraber should remove it (it's in the packaging section)
14:30
compcache is good for live CDs but not for LTSP where we have other swapping methods...
14:31
<robehend1>
what does it do, exactly
14:31
<highvoltage>
it dedicates some of your ram for swap
14:31
<alkisg>
it compresses a part of the memory
14:31
<highvoltage>
so your ram gets swapped to compressed ram
14:32
<robehend1>
ok. and, by default, it doesnt do that?
14:32
<alkisg>
So yeah it provides swap but at the same time it consumes that memory. And 25% is very significant, NBD_SWAP could be used instead (for tmpfs etc) so that all real memory is available
14:32
On real systems compcache isn't used
14:32
For LTSP, we put it in the initramfs
14:32
<robehend1>
ah, ok. that makes sense then
14:32
<alkisg>
It's good for live CDs, but imho it's bad for LTSP
14:33
(and even for live CDs it's only used for systems with < 512 MB RAM)
14:33
<highvoltage>
hmm, on my thin client at the office I don't have that in my cmdline, and it's not using it, I guess it was taken out another way in our setup
14:33
<alkisg>
highvoltage: lsmod | grep ramz
14:33
<robehend1>
hmm. well, that works then. I'm just all for speed and stability with my users, so ya.
14:33
<alkisg>
(locally)
14:34
lsmoz ramzswap
14:34
*lsmod
14:35
<robehend1>
oh! before I forget, another thing i was going to ask you, all knowing alkisg. If I'm doing fat clients, is there a difference in server-sizing? i figured since its all on the client, i could go drastically smaller
14:35
<highvoltage>
alkisg: it was loaded, but I could unload it without complaint, and my amount of swap is still the same
14:35
<alkisg>
robehend1: sure e.g. you don't need a fast cpu on the server, any i386 would do
14:36
<robehend1>
hmm, ok. i'm just gonna virtualize it, so thats not the concern. more of the Ram alottment
14:36
<alkisg>
highvoltage: did it really unload?
14:36
robehend1: RAM is mainly used to cache the image
14:36
So e.g. for a 2 Gb virtual disk, maybe caching 512 Mb of it is enough
14:36
So in that case a 1 Gb server would suffice
14:37
<highvoltage>
alkisg: yep
14:37
<alkisg>
Not sure why/how/etc. We do instruct it to use 25% of the available RAM, though
14:39
<robehend1>
hmm
14:40
alkisg: so, if i'm understanding it right, I could setup a virtual server with 4 gigs of Ram, and it'd boot upwards of 200 clients easily, since its not really using its ram at all
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14:40
<alkisg>
robehend1: sure, the network is the main limit there
14:40
RAM and CPU are no problem
14:41
<robehend1>
its on gig network, best i can do for the moment. it wont be booting 200 clients anyways, as i'd need fiber for that i'm sure
14:41
<alkisg>
highvoltage: I don't see any code in $CHROOT/usr/share/initramfs-tools/hooks/compcache that would make compcache not create a swap file, except (1) the nocompcache parameter, and (2) RAM > 512 on the live cd (casper)
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14:41
<alkisg>
robehend1: more nics on the server
14:42
<robehend1>
alkisg: well, this server does have 2 nics. i've never bonded nics on ubuntu before though. off to google!
14:42
<alkisg>
No need for bonding, if you feel uncomfortable with it
14:42
<robehend1>
how else would one do it?
14:42
<alkisg>
2 different subnets or some iptable rules would also do
14:43
<robehend1>
ah. its not so much a comfort level, as a 'havent done before' kind of thing
14:43
<alkisg>
Ah, lets start with the basics, pci nics or pci-e?
14:43
<robehend1>
..onboard..
14:43
<rpm_>
Gadi: I found a workaround so gnome-panel comes up with likewiseOpen. What I did was log in as a new user and then when it hangs use "killall gnome-panel" to get the system to load. Then I logged out and got back in as an administrator and copied the contents of the newly created users home profile to /etc/skel. After doing that new users are able to get in the first time without killing gnome-panel.
14:43
<robehend1>
its a server class machine, 2 onboard nics, believe their intels
14:43
<alkisg>
robehend1: ...that doesn't say much :) pci bus speed is limited to 1 Gbps, so there's no point in putting 2 pci nics
14:43
Ah pci-e then, nice
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14:44
<Gadi>
rpm_: nice hack
14:44
<rpm_>
hope it helps
14:44
<robehend1>
alkisg: yep. the box its on was bought in 2008. 2 dualcore 3 ghz xeons, 32 gigs of ram, and 2 TB of memory
14:44
<alkisg>
robehend1: OK go with bonding, I written a page for it last year... https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/Trunking
14:44
<Gadi>
thx
14:44
<robehend1>
oo thanks
14:45
alkisg: i'm assuming that it still applies with 10.04?
14:45
<alkisg>
robehend1: I believe so, haven't tried it though
14:46
<robehend1>
well, then I'll let you know, and edit the wiki accordingly ;0
14:46
<alkisg>
Nice
14:49
<robehend1>
now hopefully this wont overburden my wee 3com switches ;)
14:52
alkisg: had a thought on your virtualbox-ltsp deployment dealio. I thought on it, and wondered how would one handle DHCP, since the teacher machine more than likely only has a single Nic in it. Sure, you can setup virtual nics galore, but it'll still pump out the same physical pipe..
14:52
best way i figured it would work was to setup some kind of program that would allow the teacher to input the MACs of the client machines, and then add those to the dhcp config, so it only provides IP's to those.
14:54
<stgraber>
highvoltage: IIRC compcache is only enabled if you have less than X MB of RAM (at least we didn't do anything to disable it at the office)
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14:59
<robehend1>
if one wanted to build a fat-client with the ubuntu-edu-* packages, i'm assuming you'd add them with the "late packages" feature?
15:00
<alkisg>
robehend1: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ProxyDHCP
15:00
The easiest way to provide dhcp services
15:00
<robehend1>
you know, i always forget that exists
15:00
<alkisg>
Completely seamless with existing dhcp setups
15:00
Also, it's possible to use regular dhcp with 1 nic
15:00
(within vbox)
15:01
There's no rule saying that you need 2 nics. It's just the "out of the box setup", nothing more
15:01
stgraber: that's only for the live cd, it checks for "casper"
15:01
<robehend1>
makes sense. i was over thinking it, i think
15:01
<alkisg>
(and more than 512 RAM)
15:02
if [ "\${BOOT}" = "casper" ]; then
15:02
if [ "\${TOTAL_RAM}" -gt 524288 ]; then
15:02
exit 0
15:02
...but we have BOOT=ltsp_nbd
15:04
<robehend1>
alkisg: can you bridge a bonded nic, so that i could use it with KVM?
15:06
<alkisg>
No idea. If you do that check for the effective bandwidth, I think that when I tried something similar with bonding + vbox, I lost the speed benefit
15:06
But it was 3 years ago, I forgot the details
15:06
<robehend1>
would make sense, since its being handed off to a virtual nic afterwards
15:07
<alkisg>
If it makes sense for you network, you can just use 2 subnets instead of bonding
15:08
<robehend1>
how so/
15:08
<alkisg>
192.168.0.x and 192.168.1.x
15:08
static IPs, update dhcpd.conf and ready
15:08
<robehend1>
hmm
15:08
thats doable as well
15:08
<alkisg>
"makes sense for your network" ==> if it can be separater into 2 physical subnets, check your switches etc
15:09
<robehend1>
thats not a problem, i've got two subnets running right now.
15:09
one for office staff, one for students
15:09
<alkisg>
You also need NATting for at least one of your subnets, to give them internet access
15:09
You'd also...
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<robehend1>
makes sense, makes sense
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