IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 19 September 2011   (all times are UTC)

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02:06
<MitaVerb>
anyone here?
02:06
I've been doing a project and I"m about to go live with it
02:06
but I have one issue
02:08
video and flash sites are slow and I need to find a way to improve their usability
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02:10
<MitaVerb>
I have found a way to improve them by using a gig eth
02:13
the main client I'd like to use is our older Dell GX-150 machines with 256Mb ram
02:14
the one that seems to work better is our Dell GX-270 with 512MB ram and actual graphics card
02:14
whereas the 150 has built on board junk
02:14
both of those only have 100Mb eth
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02:59
<cptkrf>
I finally got on here
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07:59
<bakytn>
hey hey hey! do you use Captive Portal or any other traffic control/shaping systems in your LTSP environment? Trying to find a way to shape the traffic
08:26
<Hyperbyte>
bakytn, what do you want to shape exactly?
08:26
You want to prevent one client from taking more than X mbit/sec of bandwidth?
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08:41
<bakytn>
Hyperbyte, hello! I want to be able to limit users bandwidth. Say 1Gb per month. (not the speed limit, though)
08:41
Hyperbyte, looking at various captive portal solutions atm
08:45
<Hyperbyte>
But this is for internet, right? Not local network?
08:47
Limit their internet usage, not limit their usage of the local network?
08:49
<bakytn>
Hyperbyte, yes, for internet
08:49
Hyperbyte, yes
08:49
<Hyperbyte>
You are using thin clients, right?
08:49
Not fat clients?
08:49
<bakytn>
Hyperbyte, not fat clients. Yes Thin Clients only
08:49
<Hyperbyte>
Well, then you can use anything that works with Ubuntu.
08:50
As the LTSP users are basically just local users on the server...
08:50
(assuming you don't run Firefox as a local app)
08:50
Then anything that'll work with Ubuntu will work with LTSP. This means you'll also be able to look for support in #ubuntu, which has a lot more people.
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08:55
<bakytn>
Hyperbyte, yes this is rather general question, I just thought may be somebody solved this problem
08:56
Hyperbyte, using Firefox as a server app. Chrome is not reponsive for some reasons in LTSP, interestingly. May be rendering issues. (for example when you scroll up/down)
09:03
<Hyperbyte>
Personally I'm not too thrilled with Chrome.
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09:54
<nima_>
Hi! Any1 here who could help with local apps (gtk)?
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10:10
<Hyperbyte>
http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/19/realvnc-demos-bios-based-server-at-idf-2011-video/
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10:12
<muppis>
Neat. I'd like to see some kind of PCI card which pretends to be gpu and kb for the machine and vnc to out.
10:24
<Hyperbyte>
Well those exist already
10:24
Although it's not PCI cards
10:25
But there's remote consoles which you can just connect to the back of your PC, and it creates a remote console for you to log in to
10:25
Problem is that with this solution it requires seperate power, cpu, memory, network connection, etc....
10:26
Same would be with a PCI card. The PCI card would need it's own controller, CPU, memory, network connection...
10:26
If you do it directly from BIOS, you have all these things.
10:27
<muppis>
That's my point.
10:28
<Hyperbyte>
Yeah, but PCI card still can't use CPU and RAM of a machine directly.
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10:28
<Hyperbyte>
That's my point. :P
10:29
<muppis>
I know, put I think enough powerfull pic's that can handle things needed.
10:31
As there is still are such a things like iLO by HP and DRAC by Dell, which does the job.
10:32
<Hyperbyte>
Ah, yeah, no doubt... I was thinking more about the costs. :)
10:33
A purely software solution could be integrated into every motherboard for $5 or so.
10:33
And it would be very nice for datacenters and such. :)
10:34
<muppis>
Sure. :)
10:35
I really was thinking something like this http://www.blackbox.com/Store/Detail.aspx/ServSwitch-Agility-DVI-USB-and-Audio-Extenders-over-IP-Kit/ACR1000A
10:36
<tarzeau_>
i've been forwarded to here because apport-cli failed on my ltsp client with ERROR: connecting to Launchpad failed: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'makefile'
10:37
You can reset the credentials by removing the file "/root/.cache/apport/launchpad.credentials"
10:37
the problem i'm having is this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-geode/+bug/853754
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10:48
<alkisg>
tarzeau_: so your problem is that apport-cli doesn't work on your thin client? Do you run it locally? How? And, does your client have direct access to the Internet, e.g. via NAT on the LTSP server?
10:50
<tarzeau_>
alkisg: i took the xserver-xorg-video-geode source package, built it, installed it, the geode driver is now loaded. all fine :)
10:50
<alkisg>
Ah ok. Which distro/version had this geode problem?
10:50
<tarzeau_>
alkisg: the client has direct internet access yes, but maybe no write access on the local filesystem (nbd image)
10:51
natty https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-geode/+bug/853754
10:51
Linux tc0036 2.6.38-8-generic #42-Ubuntu SMP Mon Apr 11 03:31:50 UTC 2011 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
10:51
<alkisg>
There's an aufs overlay on top of nbd, so that shouldn't be a problem
10:51
I.e. the client has read/write access to its root file system
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10:58
<tarzeau_>
alkisg: ok, then i'm not sure why it failed..
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12:36
<mgariepy>
good morning everyoen
12:36
s/everyoen/everyone/g
12:39
<muppis>
Tehre no mttaer in wihch oderr ltters are, yuor barin wlil oderr tehm to crrocet tehm awyney.
12:40
<shawnp0wers>
muppis: that is usually only true when the first and last letters are in place.
12:40
At least for near-native reading of garbled text.
12:40
man I'm a nerd
12:42
<muppis>
shawnp0wers, isn't there first and last letters in place in my sentence? And I ain't near-native reader and works for me.
12:43
<shawnp0wers>
yes, your sentence was exactly right. I just meant that it has to be that way, as any ol' garbling doesn't work well.
12:43
I could read your sentence quite well. ;)
12:43
<muppis>
:D
12:43
Damn, I'm good.
12:44
<shawnp0wers>
You're the bestest mispeller I know.
12:46
<muppis>
Took me for more than 2 minutes to write that one. If I write my native languagge, I mispell fluently. ;)
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14:10
<billyrubin>
I was interested in building a really light terminal server with debian. Is it possible to use ltsp with just X, no window manager installed at all and have rdesktop be the default login app?
14:10
or do you need all the gnome stuff
14:10
<alkisg>
You don't need the gnome stuff for rdesktop
14:10
<shawnp0wers>
billyrubin: I do that with LTSP4.2 for the clients I want to boot into Windows.
14:10
That way I can use really old clients, ones that can't handle 5.x
14:10
<alkisg>
You can boot rdesktop with debian with e.g. 64 MB ram clients
14:11
(with ltsp 5)
14:11
<shawnp0wers>
I can't get my older thin clients to even boot LTSP5 at all.
14:11
<alkisg>
How much RAM? 32?
14:11
<shawnp0wers>
regardless of what they might boot into
14:11
Some yeah, but the disklessworkstation P1000 machines
14:11
I think they have 128MB
14:11
<alkisg>
32 isn't enough for a recent linux kernel
14:12
<shawnp0wers>
Anyway, 4.2 booting into rdesktop for them works great.
14:12
<alkisg>
The others should work fine wrt RAM. If they have booting problems, it's something else
14:12
<shawnp0wers>
It's probably something else, really.
14:12
But I have no motivation to fix them.
14:12
<alkisg>
Yeah
14:12
<shawnp0wers>
I just have a VM running CentOS and LTSP4.2
14:12
<alkisg>
If you have already set up that
14:12
But for someone starting now, there's no point in installing ltsp 4
14:12
Unless he has < 64 RAM
14:12
<billyrubin>
do you use backports (or similar) to get 4.2? or build it yourself? or use an old distro?
14:13
<shawnp0wers>
Except that it "just works" with 4.2...
14:13
for some older clients (like mine apparently)
14:13
<alkisg>
It's just kernel + X combinatoins
14:13
<shawnp0wers>
but finding the disks for LTSP4.2 is rough. :)
14:13
<alkisg>
Others will "just work" with ltsp 5, and not with 4
14:13
<shawnp0wers>
Right, in fact, most new stuff works great with LTSP5
14:13
<alkisg>
I'm using ltsp 5 with 12-year-old pcs
14:13
<shawnp0wers>
oh — my HP5000 thin clients won't boot to LTSP5 either.
14:14
They have 128MB of ram
14:14
<billyrubin>
I will be using brand new Dell (tm) ThinClients
14:14
<alkisg>
Many different brands of 12-year-old PCs, with 64-128 ram. They work fine.
14:14
<billyrubin>
so 5 might be better
14:14
<shawnp0wers>
but fail partway through the boot process
14:14
oh for sure use LTSP5 if you have new hardwre
14:14
billyrubin: new stuff likely wont' boot with 4.2
14:14
<alkisg>
shawnp0wers: if you even have motivation to switch to ltsp 5, you can just start troubleshooting the problem :)
14:14
*ever
14:14
E.g. it might be as simple as adding nomodeset
14:15
<billyrubin>
it is important to the boss that it say Dell on it and that it still smell like packing peanuts :)
14:15
<shawnp0wers>
Thansk. It might be worth it for the HP5000 series computers.
14:15
<alkisg>
billyrubin: how much RAM do those clients have?
14:16
<billyrubin>
Memory 1GB DDR2 667MHz
14:17
Dell Optiplex FX 130
14:17
<alkisg>
Sure then use LTSP5 and xfreerdp instead of rdesktop, it's being developed at a much faster pace, it'll soon have remoteapps features etc
14:17
No point in using ltsp4
14:17
With 1 gb ram you may even run vbox locally on them to server windows much faster :D
14:18
*serve
14:18
<billyrubin>
The target RDP server is a WinXP box with TSPlus installed ... one of the software guys is putting it together
14:18
<alkisg>
Is tsplus legal?
14:18
<shawnp0wers>
alkisg: what is xfreerdp?
14:18
<billyrubin>
TSPlus is 3rd party rdp for windows workstation os's
14:19
allows multiple logins
14:19
<alkisg>
shawnp0wers: it's a fork of rdesktop that is actually still maintained :)
14:19
<shawnp0wers>
fascinating
14:19
<alkisg>
billyrubin: yes, I think that's illegal to XP due to the MS EULA
14:19
<billyrubin>
I tried to explain that
14:19
<alkisg>
But anyway, whatever works for you
14:20
<billyrubin>
it is whatever works for him
14:20
<alkisg>
Local XP in vbox would also work fine without any RDP whatsoever
14:20
*when I say local I mean served via LTSP, of course
14:20
<billyrubin>
my role is to build the road ... he is driving on it
14:20
<alkisg>
And vbox is much, much faster than RDP
14:21
<shawnp0wers>
alkisg: A local VM of XP? LIke a localapp, but with the VM stored in home directory?
14:21
<alkisg>
Yes
14:21
So the user doesn't ever see linux or rdesktop
14:21
Directly boots into XP
14:22
You just waste about 200 MB RAM for the linux kernel + vbox, and gain the ability to run it in any hardware
14:22
(over the network, with single vbox image, etc etc)
14:23
<shawnp0wers>
Single VM?
14:23
<alkisg>
Yes, it's simpler than it sounds
14:23
<shawnp0wers>
so they share the XP install?
14:23
<alkisg>
Yup
14:24
And you only need to update it once to maintain it
14:24* alkisg needs to write a tutorial for that some time... in a few years when I'll actually have some free time to document windows stuff :D
14:25
<shawnp0wers>
hehehe, it sounds cool, that's for sure
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17:10
<FrozenZi1>
Question: Got an old desktop, BIOS has NW boot enabled, but when the thing starts up, it doesn't seem to "see" the network boot as an option. The NIC works otherwise, and the LTSP server is set up properly (booted another PC off the same connection w/o problems). Is it a NIC or mobo that will possibliy not support the NW boot?
17:11
(wondering if it makes sense to try a different NIC in the same mobo)
17:14
<alkisg>
!gpxe
17:14
<ltsp>
alkisg: gpxe: the successor to etherboot (http://etherboot.org). To download bootable floppy, cd, usb, kernel etc images, visit http://rom-o-matic.net/
17:14
<alkisg>
You can also try that one and see if it boots your client
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17:20
<FrozenZi1>
alkisg: sorry for the (silly?) clarification request - was that answer for my question?
17:21
<alkisg>
FrozenZi1: yes, gpxe is a method to netboot clients even if their bios doesn't support network booting
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17:21
<FrozenZi1>
alkisg: Ok, so it would be the BIOS that is the problem here, and not the NIC?
17:21
<alkisg>
If your desktop has a PCI nic, and not an onboard one, it's possible that it doesn't have a PXE rom
17:22
<FrozenZi1>
yep. PCI nic
17:22
<alkisg>
In this case it would be a problem with the nic
17:22
Cheap ones (e.g. 6 €) don't have boot roms, while more expensive ones (e.g. 20 €) do have
17:22
And, gpxe will solve your problem :)
17:22
Do you have an OS in that client?
17:22
Windows, Linux etc?
17:23
<FrozenZi1>
OK -- I sorta figured that if the BIOS has an option for NW boot, then the mobo must automatically support that.
17:23
No, this is an old old machine, currently no hard drive, nothing.
17:23
<alkisg>
No, because it doesn't know about all possible pci nics
17:23
<FrozenZi1>
alkisg: got it. Makes sense.
17:24
<alkisg>
OK, put a floppy or a cd to it
17:25
<FrozenZi1>
Hmmm -- if I
17:25
am going to be using this with old hardware,
17:26
would you recommend the LISO version?
17:26
(ISO bootable w/legacy floppy emulation)
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17:26
<FrozenZi1>
Or is basically any PC with a CD drive going to be able to boot from the CD drive?
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17:27
<alkisg>
Any pc will be able to boot from the cd drive
17:27
The legacy floppy emulation is for rare cases
17:27
Where the bios doesn't support el torito
17:28
<bakytn>
Hello! Guys, bascially there shouldn't be any problem having both, local and server apps at the same time? Or are they mutual excluded? I want to keep Firefox for both, as local apps and server app. In theory I don't see any problem. Any information on that?
17:29
<alkisg>
No, it doesn't cause any special problems
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17:34
<bakytn>
alkisg, thank you
17:47
<FrozenZi1>
alkisg: sweet - booting up as I write this...
17:47
tx!
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18:03
<FrozenZi1>
Ok, I'm having some issues with my Debian Edu install. First of all I tried to follow the instructions to add a user, seemed to go thru just fine, but I could not log on as the new user I had just created.
18:04
Now with this gPXE boot I just did, I just tried to log in on the client as root -- no go -- login failed. What?
18:04
<alkisg>
Open a terminal on the server
18:04
<FrozenZi1>
Any clues?
18:04
<alkisg>
and run: sudo adduser test
18:04
Then try to login as test on the client
18:05
If that fails, ask in the debian edu channel, they may be using something non-standard for authentication
18:07
<FrozenZi1>
Nope, not working. Weird. What is the debian edu channel called?
18:10
<alkisg>
No idea
18:10
Ah sorry
18:10
Not sudo
18:10
<FrozenZi1>
something I read said just to go to #debian
18:10
<alkisg>
On the server, run: su -
18:10
and then adduser test
18:11
Did adduser succeed?
18:11
<FrozenZi1>
yeah, it seemed to
18:11
<alkisg>
Can you login with: `ssh test@localhost`
18:11
?
18:11
(still on the server)
18:12
<FrozenZi1>
Yeah, ssh to the server (from the server) works just fine.
18:13
<alkisg>
And, on the client, you see the ldm screen?
18:13
<FrozenZi1>
works fine from the router as well...
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18:13
<FrozenZi1>
Yes.
18:13
<alkisg>
(I think it's a blue screen on debian, with yellow letters)
18:13
And you type your username and password, and then what?
18:17
<FrozenZi1>
(sorry for delay - temporary network problems...)
18:18
Either I hit enter or click on the little arrow to "go forward", and get a "login failed" error and right back to the same screen.
18:19
Oh hey.
18:19
I think I need to go back and read something.
18:20
Seems like there was mention in some manual about needing to do something so that user directories would be shared/accessible over the network. Would that have an affect?
18:21
I swear I've been able to login as root from another PC with this same setup earlier though...
18:21
<alkisg>
FrozenZi1: for starters, see if you get an authentication entry in /var/log/auth.log for that user when you try to login in an ltsp client
18:21
<FrozenZi1>
Wondering if the gPXE has had some sort of affect?
18:21
<alkisg>
No, gpxe doesn't affect the booted system at all
18:24
<FrozenZi1>
Hmmm -- VERY interesting.
18:24
On the client I had gone to a terminal (control-alt-F1) to try a login from there,
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18:25
<alkisg>
That is a local login, don't try that. Use the ldm screen instead.
18:25
<FrozenZi1>
and now when I did control-alt-F7 to get the GUI version, there was a different looking login window, and now it worked just fine.
18:25
(and auth.log got an entry)
18:25
<alkisg>
There are no local user accounts in ltsp clients
18:25
So logging in from a local terminal doesn't work
18:26
You need to use ldm, which uses ssh to authenticate against the ltsp server
18:26
(the blue login screen)
18:26
<FrozenZi1>
The "ldm" screen I was first looking at had the skole penguin in the lower right corner.
18:26
<alkisg>
You can read the ltsp docs for some background info on how ltsp works
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18:26
<alkisg>
Ah, so they don't use the standard debian one, ok
18:27
<bakytn>
I started to get from the terminal: switching V4L2 to V4L1 (or something, can't catch it). What does it mean?
18:27
<FrozenZi1>
The one that worked didn't have a penguin at all, and just had a spot for loginname (which then changed to password once I entered my login name). The penguin screen had 2 boxes up front for login and password.
18:28
<alkisg>
bakytn: Those are video protocols, not ltsp related, ask in your distro channel, you'll get better answers there
18:28
FrozenZi1: the one that worked is the standard ltsp one, I don't know about the other one, probably debian-edu-specific
18:31
<FrozenZi1>
alkisg: the one that worked says "skolelinux" on it in the middle, and the other is the one that I get when I start up the server. Well, will investigate. Thanks!
18:32
<alkisg>
Do find the debian-edu irc channel, they'll know more about those questions :)
18:33
<FrozenZi1>
Apparently there's #skolelinux, but I'd need to brush up on my Norwegian.
18:34
<alkisg>
FrozenZi1: there's #debian-edu in irc.debian.org
18:35
(not in the freenode server)
18:35
<FrozenZi1>
tx!
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20:56
<pedronveloso>
I'm trying to boot a client but it gets a panic kernel with a message like "no interfaces available". it has a sis191 , does anyone experienced something similar before?
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21:00
<xsl>
pedronveloso can you please ask your question again?
21:00
<pedronveloso>
xls I'm trying to boot a client but it gets a panic kernel with a message like "no interfaces available". it has a sis191 , does anyone experienced something similar before?
21:00
*xsl
21:00
:P
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21:01
<xsl>
if you had a girl nickname you might get luck, I personally dont know the answer
21:05
<pedronveloso>
lol
21:05
<vagrantc>
pedronveloso: what distro/version are you running? do you know what module your network card uses? does the network card work with other setups?
21:06
<pedronveloso>
it's a laptop. I'm using ubuntu 10.04.3 , and I don't have this network card anywhere else to replicate the problem
21:07
<vagrantc>
you've never installed an OS on the laptop?
21:08
<xsl>
it has a windows operating system on it
21:08
<vagrantc>
basically, you need to figure out if the module is included in the initramfs
21:08
or is supported by your distro at all ... could you try an ubuntu livecd or something?
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21:09
<xsl>
we are trying that, going to run a livecd as we speak
21:09
<vagrantc>
if that works, you could probably determine the module it needs, and check if that's in the initramfs, and possibly force inclusion in the initramfs if it isn't already there...
21:10
<xsl>
the livecd also panics
21:10
:(
21:10
<alkisg>
!adding-modules
21:10
<ltsp>
alkisg: adding-modules: (#1) If your clients won't boot with messages like 'eth0: link not ready', maybe you're missing an initramfs-module: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/AddingModules, or (#2) to add a module in the Ubuntu LTSP initramfs, follow the steps described in this page: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/AddingModules
21:11
<pedronveloso>
same problem with live cd. I've tried a ubuntu 10.04 live cd..
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21:11
<alkisg>
!forget adding-modules 2
21:11
<ltsp>
alkisg: The operation succeeded.
21:11
<alkisg>
pedronveloso: see the link above, you're missing a network module in the initramfs
21:11
<pedronveloso>
alkisg, but what module is for a sis191 ?
21:11
<alkisg>
In 10.04.3, sis191, sis190, bmx etc are missing
21:12
<pedronveloso>
so, the module name is sis191 ? ok.. , I'll try that
21:12
<alkisg>
No, it's served by sis190
21:13
These are the most common module names: atl1c bnx2 jme r8169 sis190
21:13
Put them all as the wiki page says
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21:13
<pedronveloso>
humm, ok. I'll try that then
21:13
<alkisg>
Yes, follow the wiki page
21:14
<vagrantc>
those modules tend to get excluded from the initramfs for some reason?
21:14
<alkisg>
Yes, initramfs-tools had a hardcoded modules list till some recent version
21:15
Lenny should be affected too, not sure about Squeeze
21:15
<vagrantc>
an ancient version, maybe.
21:15
<alkisg>
it was fixed in initramfs-tools 0.98
21:15
# In Lucid initramfs-tools (0.92), the auto_add_modules "net" function in # /usr/share/initramfs-tools/hook-functions only adds some of the network # modules, not all of them. it was fixed in initramfs-tools 0.98, so just # manually add a few common modules for now.
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21:29
<vagrantc>
alkisg: best i can tell, it was even fixed in 0.97
21:30
<alkisg>
Well, Lenny and Lucid are affected, recent versions nope. I think that's the clue.
21:30
<vagrantc>
or 0.94
21:30
<alkisg>
Maverick and Squeeze have 0.98
21:31
<vagrantc>
right
21:31
<alkisg>
I did check the sources when I wrote that wiki page, but I don't remember the details now
21:31
<vagrantc>
lenny-backports has 0.94.4~
21:31
<alkisg>
And it doesn't use a hardcoded list?
21:32
<vagrantc>
i was just looking at the git repo to figure out which versions included that change, and barring git's tendency to rearrange things, it looks like 0.94+ work
21:35
yup, 0.94 includes the fix
21:36
<alkisg>
http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=kernel/initramfs-tools.git;a=blobdiff;f=hook-functions;h=98597dbdf5188acf1b8e7be784b610daa473b461;hp=c40b3a4084a9fe7b3ded43e66df1c37bb92e8571;hb=cd63438f4bfc5c400aeed74ea29010dbc0c0ef4e;hpb=64882f7235362129e9bae0e7c7788981328d8077
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21:36
<alkisg>
The exact commit
21:36
<vagrantc>
yes
21:37
the other option would be to patch auto_add_modules in your local version
21:37
<alkisg>
Indeed, but it would break on security updates
21:37
<vagrantc>
not if you used /etc
21:38
though you would fork on security updates
21:38
which could be bad
21:38* vagrantc actually reads the wiki page
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21:39* alkisg doesn't give too much thought for backporting stuff... any workaround is ok for now, as long as it works out of the box in the next version ;)
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21:40
<vagrantc>
sure
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