IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 26 June 2014   (all times are UTC)

00:41
<map7>
ageis, applications for thin clients are to be installed on the server not in the image.
00:42
There are fat clients where you install all the apps for the fat clients in the image and a hybrid of thin & fat which is a pain to get working.
01:03
<ageis>
map7: cool, so what's in the image anyway, only the minimum of what you need to boot?
01:06
<map7>
The kernel & X are in the image.
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03:30
<ageis>
map7: so my image is almost 2gb. that sounds pretty excessive and like I got more than I need
03:37
<map7>
my chroot area is 1.4GB and when I the images in /opt/ltsp/images are 496MB
03:37
so if you image is 2GB that is too big
03:37
<ageis>
yeah thought so
03:38
map7 should I consider ltspfs or zfs opposed to nbd?
03:39
<map7>
I haven't used with ltspfs or zfs. nbd should do the job fine.
03:40
I'm using debian so if you are using something else maybe the image would be bigger
03:41
<ageis>
I think we just got more software on there than we need. I didnt realize the thin clients were using the usr/bin and var and /opt etc from the host.
03:42
so i had duplicate installed some stuff in both the chroot area+image and on the host.
03:42
<map7>
ok, so you may want to rebuild your image from scratch.
03:43
you can try booting with a large image it won't hurt, it will just take a long time.
03:43
<ageis>
im guessing it should just be a bare deboostrap, with X installed ?
03:45
<map7>
i think it also requires tftp & dhcp client
03:45
<ageis>
right
03:49
<map7>
https://gist.github.com/map7/1719528c4dd0e326f547
03:49
There are all the packages I have in my chroot
03:49
Note: I've added VLC as a special hybrid local app, you don't need that there
04:27
<ageis>
map7: i'll show you mine.. I actually just cut the image size down significantly
04:28
map7: https://gist.github.com/ageis/5558864ea933181f90ff
04:29
pretty standard right? i dont think theres anything that shouldnt be there anymore. the issue is that I had installed libreoffice and firefox and thunderbird and all this crap
04:29
<map7>
yeah that looks pretty good.
04:30
update the image and try booting.
04:40
<ageis>
it seems like the older LTSP versions don't use compression. on my newer ltsp server the same image gets built to half the size. is compression well supported now?
04:45
<vagrantc>
hope so.
05:03work_alkisg is now known as alkisg
05:03
<alkisg>
ageis: it was always well supported; but nbd-proxy had bugs and people mistakenly thought that the problem was in compressoin
05:03
!nbd-compression
05:03
<ltsp>
nbd-compression: In Ubuntu >= 10.04, to make your clients go faster, you can reenable NBD compression: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients#Reenabling_NBD_compression
05:04
<alkisg>
...I think from 12.04+ it's re-enabled by default
05:05
ageis: note that the image size doesn't matter at ALL to the boot speed or the ram needed by the client etc
05:05
It ONLY wastes some hard disk space on the server, nothing more.
05:05
So it's possible e.g. to boot an 128 MB RAM client with a 5 GB compressed NBD image in 30 seconds...
05:08
<vagrantc>
i would think having to download fewer blocks over the network would improve speed, if anything... ?
05:17
<alkisg>
vagrantc: why would there have to be fewer blocks downloaded?
05:17
Local installations with 100 GB in the hard disk, don't boot slower than local installation with 10 GB in the hard disk...
05:19
The only thing that would make an installation read more blocks, is if it loads more services, e.g. if you install apache - and we disable most known services from lts.conf by default
05:22
(btw I've actually benchmarked boots with 5 GB images vs 200 MB images and I saw no difference in boot speed)
05:23
<vagrantc>
alkisg: compressed blocks vs. uncompressed blocks
05:24
alkisg: i.e. compressed NBD would in most cases be faster than uncompressed NBD
05:24
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I was replying to:
05:24
(06:30:26 πμ) ageis: map7: so my image is almost 2gb. that sounds pretty excessive and like I got more than I need
05:24
(06:42:44 πμ) map7: ok, so you may want to rebuild your image from scratch.
05:24
Compressed NBD is 2.5 times faster, sure. But rebuilding the image shouldn't make any difference.
05:25* vagrantc was responding to
05:25
<vagrantc>
22:05 < alkisg> It ONLY wastes some hard disk space on the server, nothing more.
05:26
<alkisg>
Right, e.g. booting thin clients from a 5 GB fat image, vs booting thin clients from a 200 MB thin image, doesn't make any difference to the client boot speed, it only wastes some hard disk space on the server
05:26
<ageis>
excellent thanks for the inf oya'll
05:26
<alkisg>
But I failed to make it clear that I was no longer talking about compression... :)
05:26
<vagrantc>
ah
05:27
there might be an extra service thrown in that's on the whitelist of services? or are those pretty well defined as thin/fat specific whitelists?
05:27
but all things said, what minute performance differences there might be aren't worth worrying about
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05:29
<alkisg>
When implementing RM_SYSTEM_SERVICES, I've extensively tested boot speed + RAM needed by the services. When I was done, fat clients booted faster and needed less RAM than thin clients, up to LDM! (due to pulse running in system mode in thins)
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05:30
<alkisg>
Sure, if someone installs services not in the lists, and doesn't want them to be running on boot, he should put them in the lists by himself...
05:30
<vagrantc>
oh yeah, it's blacklists instead of whitelists
05:36
now that support for the cubox-i and wandboard are in debian, i need to start testing them as thin clients again
05:36
and fat clients, really
05:36
only 16-bit color depth, though :(
05:36
which is still the default for thin clients?
05:37
<alkisg>
vagrantc: in debian: thins => 16 bit, fats => 32 bit
05:37
<vagrantc>
well, fat => default
05:37
<alkisg>
In ubuntu, I think stgraber has a patch for thins to default to 32 bit for unity to work... yet I don't think unity works in thin
05:38
<vagrantc>
some hardware only does 24 bit, if i remember correctly
05:40
still, 2GB of ram, quad core arm 1GHz, HDMI video ... pretty reasonable specs for an LTSP client.
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05:43
<vagrantc>
till another day...
05:45
<map7>
vagrantc, I have a cubox and would love to use it as a thin client one day. I would be interested in how you go with this
05:46
I'm currently using Shuttle DS47 which is great
05:46
<vagrantc>
map7: cubox, or cubox-i ?
05:46
<map7>
I have a cubox pro
05:47
<vagrantc>
i'm not sure how well the cubox is supported in debian, but the cubox-i has pretty good support for the kernel in debian experimental
05:48
at any rate...
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07:30
<ageis>
I'm trying to get my thin client VM to boot here. I've gone through isc-dhcp-server, then switched to dnsmasq (with DNS disabled and proxied to my router, but using it for DHCP, and apparently working listening on port 67) tfpd-hpa (fully working, listening port 69), and nbd-server (seems to be working, listening port 2000).
07:31
but the DHCP request launched from PXE gets nothing
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07:48
<ageis>
here is a paste of most of my relevant configs, if anyone experienced wants to take a look, it would be appreciated: http://pastebin.com/pFkjTqd9
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07:59
<ageis>
I can run dhclient through my server running dnsmasq and it works fine (proxied to my router)
08:00
i can also download all the files with tftp client
08:00
cant test nbd stage without fixing the dhcp issue, which is the issue. im sure the PXE client is fine, but maybe its timing out too early or something. its just not hitting the dnsmasq server
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08:50
<ageis>
map7: assuming my thin clients have a nice graphics card, then I should equip the image with the right drivers?
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20:01
<bennabiy>
has anyone noticed a recent update to cause their system to freeze up for moments at a time?
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