IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 2 September 2017   (all times are UTC)

00:03
<dgroos>
but… when I try to login while sitting at a booted client, it says: “Permanently added the ECDSA host key for IP address ‘192.168.67.1’ to the list of known hosts” sits there for 30 seconds or so, then returs straight to the login screen.
00:03
Any ideas?
00:26
Need to leave, will post on ltsp-list. Thanks!
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09:28
<markit>
hi, 16.04, I've NO network manager (everything in /etc/network/interfaces) setup dnsmasq only as a dns cache (cache-size=1000, listen-address=127.0.0.1, listen-address=192.168.20.10 that is LTSP client side), but now resolution does not work, I don't understand how to make them play nicely, the doc I've found implies network manager that I've REMOVED (I don't want it)
09:29
any clue?
09:35
mmm seems related to that listen-address, removing and restarting then works
09:36
but I don't want to provide dns services on the (ltsp server) wan interface (eth0 that is 192.168.1.10)
09:37
mmm restoring the config works too... so seems a race condition, dnsmasq is run before resolver at startup... possible?
09:41
yes, rebooting seame problem, restarting dnsmasq solved :(
09:46
alkisg: having /etc/hosts with items like "192.168.20.101 ltsp101" ... "192.168.20.150 ltsp150" is necessary? Was necesary? Improves anything? Don't remember why I put them there
09:51
<alkisg>
markit: dnsmasq conflicts with nbd-client so it doesn't start half of the times
09:51
Solved with ltsp-pnp or ltsp-manager
09:51
It improves "reverse dns lookups"
09:52
E.g. if a client contacts the server, and IF you've configured the server to do reverse dns lookups, it'll need to do a dns lookup for 192.168.20.101, which might be slow depending on your setup
09:52
It's not necessary to do it normally
09:52
Normally mdns (avahi) takes care of this
09:58
<markit>
I've to setup this 12.04 to 16.04 server ASAP, so no time to dig into ltsp-manager (but I've took note to do very very soon). So better avoid dnsmasq at all at the moment
09:58
Hope they will fix this nasty bug of dnsmasq/nbd-client soon sigh
10:00
ok, found the fix in your doc (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPLiveUSB)
10:03
but seems network-manager related
10:04
also I've no nbd-client on ltsp server
10:04
shoudl I?
10:16
<alkisg>
I think it's easier to use something new that works, rather than re-do all those last months that I did troubleshooting stuff, by yourself again
10:16
But if you like bugs, sure, do it as you like :)
10:17
LTSPLiveUSB is based on some of my docs, but I didn't write it
10:17
Also, it's incomplete, it doesn't contain the new bugs that were found in 16.04
10:17
You don't need nbd-client on the ltsp server if you're not using ltsp-pnp
10:21
network-manager also conflicts with dnsmasq, even if you remove it
10:22
It would worked if you purged network manager, instead of apt-get remove, which leaves the conffiles in /etc behind
11:22
<markit>
alkisg: dpkg -l | grep ^rc shows no network manager left
11:23
<alkisg>
markit: ls /etc/dnsmasq.d
11:24
<markit>
and I did a purge
11:24
ls: cannot access '/etc/dnsmasq.d': No such file or directory
11:24
<alkisg>
It's strange to have dnsmasq without its configuration directory
11:24
Broken setup?
11:24
<markit>
ehm, of course, I've purged dnsmasq before
11:25
do you want me to reinstall?
11:25
<alkisg>
Maybe I misunderstood?
11:25
Are you using dnsmasq or not?
11:26
<markit>
alkisg: I WAS using dnsmasq, was unable to make it work, and since I used it ONLY as dns cache, I purged it to solve the issue fast
11:26
<alkisg>
[12:41] <markit> yes, rebooting seame problem, restarting dnsmasq solved :(
11:26
<markit>
(now I realize I did not wrote about that sorry)
11:26
<alkisg>
OK, I was talking about dnsmasq, I didn't realize that you removed it
11:26
Never mind then :)
11:27
<markit>
alkisg: yep, manually restarting dnsmasq or resolver, but at each reboot the dns is broken, so I removed dnsmasq
11:27
<alkisg>
That's what I was trying to help you with, yeah
11:27
I know what causes it and how to solved it...
11:27
But since you're not using it, nevermind
11:28
<markit>
I would love to use it, we have a very slow connection at school, but if it takes too long I have to give up and have a look another time
11:28
"dnsmasq conflicts with nbd-client" I have no nbd-client so decided not to bore you further on this topic
11:29
you are vey kind and helpful, but I don't want to waste (too much of) your time if not strictly necessary ;P
11:29
s/vey/very
11:29
<alkisg>
There are 3 reasons for dnsmasq to break, nbd-client and networkmanager are 2 of them, anyway ltsp-manager automatically solves all of them so np
11:29
I mostly care about the recommended ltsp setup, not about custom setups...
11:30
Custom setups require a sysadmin, so it's his job to troubleshoot them :D
11:31
<markit>
alkisg: you are right, the "problem" is (forgive me) I learned about ltsp-manager just a day ago, and since I have no time to understand and test it with my kubuntu install, I skipped but this does not mean at all I'm not very much interested in it, as I am in eveything you do for ltsp
11:31
<alkisg>
Hey I'm not blaming you for anything no worries!
11:31
<markit>
hahaha, ok, I'm the sysadmin, so you should write "a good sysadmin" ;P
11:31
<alkisg>
It's only my part; that personally I don't mind about bugs found in custom installations
11:32
ltsp-manager is the same as ltsp-pnp, which has been around for years
11:32
<markit>
really???
11:32
<alkisg>
It doesn't have any new or old bugs
11:32
Yes, it's just an automated ltsp-pnp installation
11:32
The ltsp-pnp page mentions how to do things manually, while ltsp-manager do them via a menu
11:33
(called initial-setup)
11:33
<markit>
ltsp-pnp... I don't use (yet) ltsp-pnp, I have to solve some problems kde related before (had no time so far)
11:33
that's maybe why I did not noticed
11:33
<alkisg>
I can't imagine how kde fat clients with work without ltsp-pnp and would break with ltsp-pnp
11:33
Do you mean that ltsp-pnp breaks things for you, and plain ltsp works?!
11:33
That would be very strange...
11:34
<markit>
no, I just have it to run some (custom) script I made to solve some phonon issues or directory links/paths
11:34
otherwise kde crashes or takes a huge amount of time to boot
11:35
I don't remember, I asked you about it when I tested ltsp-pnp (for one user), I took some note about your replies but had no time to investigate so far
11:36
<alkisg>
And that script works in ltsp and it doesn't work in ltsp-pnp?
11:36
I just can't understand what part would work in ltsp, and wouldn't work in ltsp-pnp...
11:38
<markit>
let me retrieve some info if I find them...
11:40
ok, found.
11:40
In fat chroot I create this script
11:40
'/etc/X11/Xsession.d/10ltspMM_rm_phonondevicesrc
11:41
and I put something like (took from my ruby scripts, so there are escapes for ruby)
11:41
"rm \"\$HOME/.kde/share/config/phonondevicesrc\"
11:41
"# change kde permanent cache path from default /var/tmp to ~/.cache"
11:41
"KDEVARTMP=\"\$HOME/.cache\""
11:41
"export KDEVARTMP"
11:42
this has to be done for ltsp clients and not for the Server regular users
11:42
so the question is/was: how can I do for -pnp?
11:43
I need this to be executed by the clients at startup of the session (I mean, when "normal" fat executes them from /etc/X11/Xsession.d/)
11:45
<alkisg>
You just do this on top of the script:
11:45
test -n "$LTSP_CLIENT" || return
11:46
Or you put it in /usr/share/ldm/rc.d/X*
11:47
<markit>
oh, you mean put in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/10ltspMM_rm_phonondevicesrc and with that test I can run only if a ltsp client? Cool
11:48
what about /usr/share/ldm/rc.d/X* ? What is it for?
11:49
<alkisg>
To run things when the Xsession starts, while also having access to the ltsp variables and lts.conf and the remote file system for thin clients etc
11:49
Check the scripts that are already there
11:51
<markit>
I've only X50-client-env, hope is enough :)
11:52
<alkisg>
Look in the chroot, in your case
11:52
You're not using ltsp-pnp now, so you don't have ldm in the server, you have it in the chroot
11:53
<markit>
I see!
11:58
btw, ltsp-manager is GUI based, is there something I can run in ssh instead? I remember a ltsp-config or something like that. I think is time to avoid my script and move to your stuff (for the next install). But with automated stuff I did not wrote I will loose even more control, so my low skill about what is going on will be even worse, what do you think?
12:02
btw, http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Ltsp-manager/Preparation I get (firefox) "This version of the UserMerge extension requires MediaWiki 1.25+"
12:02
<alkisg>
I'm playing with the wiki now, I'll fix it in a few minutes
12:03
ltsp-manager is gui based, but it has scripts underneath
12:03
One of them is /usr/share/ltsp-manager/initial-setup.sh
12:09
<markit>
alkisg: where is the official doc? I've found some link but seems obsolete, like http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/ that does not mention -pnp at all
12:09
<alkisg>
ogra_: can you delete that ^ because it's misleading people?
12:09
<ogra_>
eep ... i need to delete that dir i guess
12:09
<markit>
maybe I just have to try it in a proxmox VM and come back if I have issues
12:10
<alkisg>
ogra_: There's also a blueprint about ltsp-manager that needs deletion... thanks!
12:10
<ogra_>
(though the creation date should have told you something :P )
12:10
not sure i can delete blueprints
12:10
<alkisg>
markit: ogra had a project with the same name in the past, but they are unrelated
12:10
!ltsp-manager
12:10
<ltsp>
ltsp-manager: LTSP Manager is a GUI tool that makes LTSP maintenance easy. It's the recommended way to install LTSP in common setups. More info: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Ltsp-manager
12:10
<alkisg>
That's the official doc
12:11
<markit>
oh, I see, in fact I was confused by this
12:13
mmm sounds great (as usual is Alkisg's stuff I must say), just to understand the impact in how I've organized my stuff but I'm optimistic :)
12:15
<ogra_>
i removed the dir
12:18
<alkisg>
thank you ogra_ :)
12:30
<markit>
alkisg: I don't remember the requirement of the ltsp server to be named "server" if has been remove and/or is configurable somewhere. None of my servers have that name and things worked so far but...
12:31
btw, I've a lot of notes about our conversation, but is frustrating how difficoult is to translate it in a clear, updated and coherent/complete documentation. I feel lost and clueless so often :(
12:32
<alkisg>
markit: up until a year ago, if you didn't name it "server", then cups wouldn't work
12:32
I fixed it about a year ago
12:32
<markit>
oh, yes, now I remember, thanks
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13:49
<pop_>
hi all
13:49
anybady here/
13:55
<markit>
argh, I've 12GB ram and a i386 installation, and I see the reference to this bug https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=196157
13:56
wondering how bad will affect the boot of 24 fat clients
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13:59
<q9>
Hi, is it possible to use passphrase-protected ssh-keys for authenciation with ldm?
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14:08
<rkwesk>
alkisg: If you are not asleep, may I chat with a bit?
14:14
First of all I again congratulate the three of you for sending upstream the more flexible LTSP Manager.
14:15
I will try it with both Stretch and Ubuntu
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15:01
<markit>
alkisg_web: in http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Ltsp-manager/Preparation , Network, config has to be in /etc/network/interfaces or with NetworkManager or does not matter at all?
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15:26
<alkisg>
markit: 12 GB => you can limit them with mem=8G in the kernel cmdline
15:26
markit: about network config, ltsp manager configures dnsmasq in proxydhcp mode
15:27
If you are using isc-dhcp then you need to manually update ltsp-server-dnsmasq.conf
15:28
LTSP manager shouldn't break if you're using /etc/network/interfaces for static IP etc, it should work without network manager fine, but I haven't tested it
15:29
<markit>
I see, my problem is that teachers are clueless so if I expose the NM to them, they could break it and cry "nothing works, but nobody did anything wrong!"
15:29
I'm trying ltsp-manager in a vm, reading about shared dirs and trying to figure out that config
15:31
(I'm using ACLs for that, but I've some troubles and there is added complexity, windows ACL sigh seem better to me, i.e. if you copy a file it gets the acl of the destination dir, so if the dir is "everyone" becomes a shared file automatically)
15:31
<alkisg>
Teachers here like to see the network manager applet because it tells them when they pulled the network cable by mistake
15:31
And it shows the speed etc
15:31
Shared folders should work fine out of the box, without bothering about ACLs
15:31
ACLs don't properly solve the shared folders issue, that's why I used bindfs
15:31
<markit>
sure, but you told me time ago that your average teacher is not a clueless newbie, mine are
15:32
<alkisg>
The "sysadmins" aren't; but the normal teachers are
15:32
<markit>
is there an explaination about different roles? teacher, stuff, student, administrator...
15:32
<alkisg>
A computer teacher is the "sysadmin", but many teachers use the computer lab, which are clueless
15:32
administrator means "put him in sudo"
15:33
teacher means "put him in teachers and in epoptes"
15:33
student => none of those
15:33
<markit>
also would be great having the possibility to import/export accounts for creation/deletion/whatever from .ods or csv for mass management
15:33
<alkisg>
stuff => only in epoptes
15:33
It's there, read the docs :)
15:33
Import/export to .csv
15:34
<markit>
oh, I see, sorry for the noise, lol
15:34
(I searched under "users")
15:35
<alkisg>
We should probably merge the "file" menu with the "users" menu
15:36
Let's see if people like ltsp-manager first
15:36
<markit>
also I should shift from my "every user has it's own account" (and I have to create them every year) to your "fixed accounts, rotate users. Woundering if you have already created the tool/option to remove all the home content once the student has graduated and leaves
15:37
<alkisg>
Right click on the users, delete, and check remove home
15:37
E.g. select the c1, c2, c3 groups first, then select all users
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15:38
<markit>
also I've the option to reset the setup (removing i.e. .config or .kde) so if a user messes up the desktop or whatever, the teacher can "restore" a working situation in a snap
15:38
<alkisg>
I think I'll shift to the model of "u17a01", which means "user that got in the school in 2017 and got to the a class and works on pc01"
15:38
That should be an epoptes option
15:38
Right click on the user
15:39
In some cases it can go in ltsp manager too, sure
15:39
<markit>
ah, I don't create users in epoptes, to be sincere I don't use epoptes ad all (teachers do... well, some...)
15:40
<alkisg>
epoptes can't create users, but it can run commands on the logged in users
15:40
So if a teacher detects an issue, he could reset the panel etc without calling the sysadmin
15:41
<markit>
good, but as a sysadming then having that in ltsp-manager (so you can act against a user not logged) sounds good too
15:41
as you already said :)
15:41
<alkisg>
Yes, some actions are for the teacher and others for the sysadmin
15:42
E.g. "reset panel/desktop" is for the teacher, while "delete all files" is for the sysadmin
15:42
<markit>
or the evil teacher ;P
15:43
<alkisg>
Hehe
16:06
<markit>
alkisg: ltsp-chroot -a i386 -p -d -c, then nano /etc/cups/cups-browsed.conf and I get "Error opening terminal: screen.xterm-256color.". I don't remember anything like that in the past
16:06
(outside chroot works fine)
16:13
<alkisg>
Dunno I don't use chroots
16:14
They had a lot of issues that I didn't like to troubleshoot :)
16:15
<markit>
urgh, /etc/default/grub is not present in my server... wondering if has been removed by something by mistake, let's dig
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16:16
<markit>
mm 12.04 did not had it too...
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17:02
<alkisg>
markit: you can find the example at /usr/share/grub/default/grub
17:03
Copy it to /etc/default manually because it appears you deleted it
17:04
<markit>
I'm trying with a vm as thin client (ipxe boot), seems slow like hell
17:04
sorry, solved with a purge/reinstall of grub
17:05
now set 8GB limit, hoping in a kenerl fix soon but seems 32 bit is almost abandoned these days
17:13
mmm I forget that I reinstalled dnsmasq, then I purged it again, now seems fast in booting (maybe the reason is a different one), I just during boot I get a "FAILED failed to start simple desktop display manager" but things go well then, seems I'm ok, thanks A LOT as usual
17:13
btw, the model of "u17a01" seems bad since suggests to link an user to a PC
17:14
while the fabolous thing of ltsp is that if a pc is broken you can use another without issues
17:14
also happens that a student changes classes, i.e. from a to b
17:35
<alkisg>
markit: in schools, we use this model a lot
17:35
We have e.g. 2-3 students working on the same pc
17:35
and we want to keep them on the same pc to discover vandalism, broken keyboards etc
17:35
Of course they can work elsewhere, but that's where we want them
17:36
So, that model is per seat and per class
17:36
There are other 3 models for user accounts, read the ltsp-manager docs for the one that suits you
17:36
E.g. per student or only per seat etc
18:03
<markit>
I've to leave, thanks you again, have a good night :)
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