IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 8 February 2016   (all times are UTC)

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06:20
<alkisg>
Yey, new LTSP/LDM :)
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14:15
<brentb>
good morning everyone
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14:19
<brentb>
With some help last week I was able to install ltsp using the ltsp-pnp. It is now up and running, but I have a strange error I was hoping to get some help with.
14:20
When I network boot and connect, it is showing the wireless icon instead of the ethernet icon. On top of that, it shows there is no connection, but I do have internet connection.
14:28
<sbalneav>
Does the machine actually have a wireless card?
14:28
<brentb>
the physical machine booting, yes
14:32
<sbalneav>
That's probably why.
14:33
Network Manager seems to like to give priority to the wireless card.
14:36
<brentb>
sorry, got pulled away for an IT issue.
14:37
hmm, I can try turning off the wifi card (physical switch) or disabling the card via device manager?
14:38
<sbalneav>
Simplest would be disabling the wifi in bios.
14:38
That will require the least amount of effort.
14:40
<brentb>
ah, i could try that. I just noticed that I already have the physical switch for wifi turned off. I will try the bios change.
14:48
<alkisg_away>
brentb: that's network manager running, but it's not allowed to manage the ethernet card of ltsp, so as to prevent users from disconnecting it
14:48alkisg_away is now known as alkisg
14:49
<alkisg>
It's there so that you can manage other cards if you have them, or add VPN networks etc
14:49
If you don't want that, you can remove it from lts.conf RM_SESSION_SERVICES directive
14:50
Sorry, RM_SYSTEM_SERVICES, like this:
14:50
RM_SYSTEM_SERVICES="apache2 bluetooth clamav-daemon clamav-freshclam dnsmasq mysql nbd-server network-manager nfs-kernel-server nmbd php5-fpm shared-folders smbd ssh squid3 whoopsie x2goserver"
14:50
Removing network manager also removes the applet from ltsp fat clients
14:53
<brentb>
Oh, interesting
14:55
I suppose it does not harm anything, so I don't need to remove it. I thought it was a bug or misconfiguration
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14:57
<alkisg>
Nope, it's a feature :)
14:59
<brentb>
Yesterday I think you mentioned testing the thin vs thick client, where was that setting to toggle between?
14:59
right now it is running at whatever the default is.
15:07
<alkisg>
sudo ltsp-config lts.conf, if you haven't done that already,
15:07
then sudo nano /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386.conf,
15:07
and put LTSP_FATCLIENT=False under the [Default] section there
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15:45
<brentb>
I don't have that directory... I have /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/amd64/lts.conf
15:46
I see a default area in there that I can add the line to.
15:47
Do I need to "update the client image" after modifying this file?
15:47
<alkisg>
No, you just need to restart the clients
15:48
If you installed with amd64 cd, you can only boot 64bit clients now
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15:50
<brentb>
I don't think that will be a problem, but if it becomes one I can re-install. I have been keeping notes on how to install.
15:51
<Mazhive>
is ther some one who can help me , ive been set up a debian 7 as a ltsp and build the client arch i386 and amd64 still my client laptop does not boot up.
15:52
my ltsp has no dhcp this is done by my router.
15:52
set up the dhcp options into the router..
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16:03
<alkisg>
Mazhive: did you follow a tutorial, some wiki page?
16:05
<Mazhive>
using debian wheezy it's install automatic.. apt-get install ltsp-server
16:05
ltsp-build-client
16:05
etc
16:06
made sure it did not start dhcp
16:06
after that change dhcp options in my cisco router
16:07
i thought this should work now.. but along the way propably something went wrong..
16:07
or.. forgotten..
16:08
<alkisg>
Did you put next-server, boot-filename, and rootpath in your router? 3 things?
16:14
<Mazhive>
yes.. wait ill copy the dns masq
16:15
https://paste.fedoraproject.org/319934/54948133/
16:26
<alkisg>
dhcp-option=17,/opt/ltsp/i386
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16:28
<alkisg>
ltsp has an example ltsp-server-dnsmasq.conf for you to see the directives, but I think that's ^ the one you're missing
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16:31
<Mazhive_one>
yep i just rebooted my router i saw a misconfiguration
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18:18
<alkisg>
vagrantc: good job on releasing ltsp/ldm :)
18:19
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i largely just uploaded, you did most of the work... and whoever it was that came up with the ldm multi-screen patch
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18:20
<vagrantc>
though i did catch a bugfix here and there
18:20
<alkisg>
I'm not 100% sure that uploading that patch was a good idea, we'll see...
18:20* vagrantc neither
18:21
<alkisg>
I'm afraid in some cases people will see a blank screen while they have a single-monitor (and a ghost monitor) setup...
18:21
<vagrantc>
it could be really annoying with hidden screens
18:24
<alkisg>
vagrantc: is there any chance that you could upload a new (small) release of epoptes, in the next e.g. 3-4 days? Phantomas was thinking of fixing an issue with screen locking...
18:24
If Phantomas fixes it in e.g. 2 days, and you upload e.g. in 4, with medium priority, it can still make it for 16.04
18:25
<vagrantc>
alkisg: happy to
18:25
if that's the plan, i'll hold off on backporting to jessie till then too
18:26
<alkisg>
Cool! It's up to Phantomas as he also has some exams, hopefully we'll hear from him within a couple of days...
18:26
I think I also made epoptes lintian-free
18:26* vagrantc claps!
18:29
<alkisg>
Ah, about mentioning revisions in bzr commits like "r2689" etc, ok, I'll stop doing that in case we ever switch to git _and_ try to preserve history...
18:30
I didn't know git didn't have a serial number for commits
18:30
It's strange that they don't list one, since history is supposed to be immutable
18:31
(of course it wouldn't be the same when 2 branches merge, but we don't plan to merge old history, ever...)
18:32
<vagrantc>
alkisg: it just has sha1sums
18:32
history in git is not at all immutable
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18:34
<alkisg>
So it would be possible for e.g. poettering to merge commits #1000 to #10000 from systemd, and other devs would pull, and get their history rewritten?!
18:36
<vagrantc>
sort of. it's just different
18:36
the concept of a linear history with git basically doesn't exist
18:37
it maintains many parallel universes
18:37
which is good for quantum state
18:37* alkisg fears some devs read too many stories from the marvel universe(s)... :D
18:38* vagrantc has been reading 1800s sci-fi lately
18:41
<ogra_>
do you recommend that before learning git ? to understand the multiverse concept first ?
18:41
<alkisg>
In reality though, I don't think r2689 will ever have a different number whatever VCS we use, it's just that git doesn't like to display a counter there
18:41
If we did rewrite history, it could change, but we don't do that, so...
18:41
<vagrantc>
ogra_: well, really parallel universes didn't really come into the literature until the early-mid 1900s
18:42
<ogra_>
yeah...
18:42
<vagrantc>
alkisg: even if we never switched VCSes, i still think referencing a commit by number means to know what it's referencing i have to look up the commit ... which is cumbersome
18:43
alkisg: so i thank you for your offer to switch habits :)
18:43
<alkisg>
But I do want to reference the other commit...
18:43
So that readers can then see what was undone, and why...
18:44
I can stop using a serial number, and I can put some extra documentation there, but I still want to reference the original commit
18:44
<vagrantc>
alkisg: if you could at least include some english text for context in addition to the commit number, i would really like that
18:44
<alkisg>
Sure
18:45
Btw, if git allows rewritting history, we could easily replace rXXXX with git's SHA-1 sums while migrating :)
18:45
<vagrantc>
too much hassle
18:45
<alkisg>
And it's easier to see the other commit then, good UIs support clicking on such hyperlinks
18:46
Nah, I've done it many many times while changing forum software + servers (URLs), while maintaining users + posts
18:47
Ah, a more serious issue...
18:47
Intel and AMD decided to put microcode blobs in the kernel
18:47
So, each initrd is now tailored (by update-initramfs) to the current CPU the LTSP server has
18:48
<vagrantc>
with git-remote-bzr it pushes back and forth, so conversion happens on the fly, and so rewriting commits isn't really viable
18:48
alkisg: ouch!
18:48
<alkisg>
So, an Intel "X" cpu on the server, will have microcode for "X", and it won't have microcode for Intel's "Y" nor AMD's "Z" processors
18:48
We can modify the ltsp server to include all the microcode, but it makes the initrd a bit larger
18:49
<vagrantc>
right, that's what i figured
18:49
<maldridge>
how much is "a bit larger"
18:49
<alkisg>
Or we can hope that the microcode isn't too important and can be loaded later on from the real system, after the initramfs stage
18:50* vagrantc has always liked being able to swap disks without having to worry about compatibility in general
18:50
<maldridge>
in my experience you can run happily without microcode
18:51
<alkisg>
I did some tests but I don't remember the results, in general the microcode is a few KB, but there are hundreds of them, and will be more in the future
18:52
E.g. one of the recent bugs fixed was a specific multiplication with specific operands
18:52
Hopefully the initramfs won't be affected by such bugs, and then a service can load the microcode from the real system
18:53
The weird thing is that they just append the microcode, they don't really include it in the initramfs cpio
18:53
It's supported by the kernel, but it makes zcat initrd | cpio -i fail
18:55
<vagrantc>
ugh
18:56
hopefully it has some check to validate the microcode is appropriate for the CPU...
18:57
<alkisg>
Yup, it does
18:57
cat /etc/default/intel-microcode
18:57
That's where we can play with intel settings
19:01
Increase in size: from 36968783 to 37711485
19:01
...if we also include AMD's, let's say 1 MB larger
19:02
(it's lame that we have such a big initramfs though, it can't be uncompressed in under 100 MB RAM...)
19:03
They should use squashfs instead, and keep it compressed even in RAM :D
19:08
<vagrantc>
then you have the overhead of needing some kind of overlay
19:09
or some kind of tmpfs mounts at a few points
19:09
which i guess isn't all that hard
19:57
<alkisg>
vagrantc: sometimes I'm wondering if it wouldn't be much faster to provide the initramfs and the init-ltsp.d part in a read-only NFS file system, which would then pivot_root to the nbd cow system... afaik, the kernel does have some basic nfs support embedded, doesn't it?
19:58
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i doubt we'll be able to get the kernels to enable built-in NFS support.
19:58
i mean, technically, yes, but in a distribution kernel? not likely to happen
19:59
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I have this: CONFIG_NFS_COMMON=y
19:59
Isn't that enough?
19:59
<vagrantc>
no
19:59
<alkisg>
(by default)
19:59
<vagrantc>
alkisg: you also need CONFIG_NFS_*
20:00
<alkisg>
CONFIG_NFS_SWAP=y
20:00
CONFIG_NFS_V4_1=y
20:00
CONFIG_NFS_V4_2=y
20:00
<vagrantc>
and an NFS root option
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20:00
<vagrantc>
CONFIG_NFS_FS=m ?
20:00
<alkisg>
Yes
20:00
<vagrantc>
CONFIG_NFS_ROOT ?
20:01
er, CONFIG_ROOT_NFS
20:01
<alkisg>
No
20:01
Isn't that a kernel cmdline option?
20:01
<vagrantc>
it requires kernel support
20:01
<alkisg>
Ah
20:01
<vagrantc>
was happy to abandon that so many years ago
20:02
<alkisg>
OK so the stock kernel can't netboot... it would be nice if it could, even with just the undi stack...
20:02
<vagrantc>
not without an initramfs... :P
20:03
<alkisg>
I was seeing all those NFS*=y options and I thought it would be supported without an initramfs
20:03* vagrantc is trying to figure out why building the ltsp package embeds dates in the *.mo files, but calling the same commands manually doesn't
20:03
<vagrantc>
er, embeds the current date
20:04
i think the translations are currently only for ltsp-build-client
20:05
and are largely out of date
20:08* alkisg thinks we need to find a sponsor and rewrite the whole thing almost from scratch as ltsp 6 :)
20:12
<vagrantc>
there's something to be said for that
20:13
but the bounties campaign is going so well, this might slow that down!
20:14
<alkisg>
Hahaha
20:14
Well, only 1 person commented there on the list so it didn't gain any traction at all
20:14
And the google summer of code idea was turned down by jammcq...
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20:31
<vagrantc>
oh wow, i think i finally figured it out
20:33alkisg is now known as alkisg_away
20:36
<vagrantc>
-$(DOMAIN).pot: $(GETTEXTFILES)
20:36
+$(DOMAIN).pot: $(shell xgettext -L Shell -o $(DOMAIN).pot $(GETTEXTFILES))
20:36
hah, line-breaks didn't represent that correctly
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20:41
<yisraeldov>
\join
21:01
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: i think you merged some updates to libpam-sshauth ... do you plan to make a new upstream release?
21:02
sbalneav: there's a trivial build failure due to packaging that i haven't fixed on debian for some time, as i wasn't sure of the state of libpam-sshauth
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21:43
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: Sure, I could bump the version number. I'll do it this week.
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