IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 8 July 2013   (all times are UTC)

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13:11
<intekk>
hi folks i need to query an issue i have with an lts - one issue is (after updates) no no longer get a display on the server, i can however connect to the server via a client. My other (more major) issue is that my wireless clients do not detect wireless adapter ~ as well as getting a mismatch error with network manager. -edubuntu
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13:36
<workingcats>
intekk, mismatch error? what is the output of ifconfig when you run it as local root on the clients, does the interface show up? does the network interface work if you try to boot a client from a *buntu livecd (of the same version as what you're trying to use with ltsp)?
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14:14
<intekk>
eth0 lo lxcbr0
14:14
no wlan0
14:15
"the system network services are not compatible with this version" when accessing Network in settings
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14:41
<sbalneav>
Morning all
14:42
<bengoa>
sbalneav, morning
14:43
<sbalneav>
bengoa!!!!
14:43
How's fisl?
14:43
<bengoa>
sbalneav, it was nice.
14:43
missing you and jim
14:44
<sbalneav>
Cool. But you're coming up for ltsp hackfest, is the rumour.
14:44
<bengoa>
hehe. I'm doing my best to be there on October
14:46
Jim and you will expend that few days on NYC this year?
14:47
<ogra_>
do we have a date yet ?
14:47
<bengoa>
I guess it will be on late October
14:48
<ogra_>
sure, as always ... i meant more a fixed date so we can plan vacations and book flights etc
14:48
<intekk>
thanks for your help
14:48* ogra_ is pondering to drive up the coast from NY this time
14:48
<ogra_>
and take a few days extra
14:48
<bengoa>
I don't know the exact date yet
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14:49
<bengoa>
I'm thinking to fly to Detroit and make all the way trip with Jim and Scotty
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17:52
<DJUnreal>
eveninig all
17:52
how goes?
17:54
<muppis>
Sleezz..
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18:46* DJUnreal stretches
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18:48* dead_inside takes nap
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19:07
<DJUnreal>
Welcome Back alkisg
19:07
<alkisg>
Hi DJUnreal, hi all
19:08
<DJUnreal>
question... ltsp-cluster... the docs don't suggest it's mainstream for anything other than ubuntu... will it play nice with debian?
19:09
<alkisg>
Dunno, I've never tried ltsp-cluster. The ltsp debian maintainer is vagrantc, but I don't think he has tried it either, so if it's available in debian, it might not be in a good state...
19:10
<DJUnreal>
it doesn't appear to be in apt... i'm wondering if downloading the tar files direct from ltsp-cluster will work...
19:10
To Be Honest i'm not fussed about the intelligent features
19:10
but after last weekend's attempt to get a second login server working, and hitting a brick wall when the client i chose to test with tried to connect to server 2...
19:11
<alkisg>
Setting up a second login server without -cluster shouldn't be hard...
19:11
<DJUnreal>
what i've done so far:
19:11
install a second base system
19:12
install ltsp-server packages
19:12
set up NIS and confirmed that works
19:12
set up NFS to share home dirs to help with NIS
19:13
checked that worked too
19:13
built the client on the master server
19:13
mounted /opt/ltsp on the slave server through nfs RW, re-exported ro
19:13
so from my thinking... the second server should have everything it needs to be a login node...
19:14
'cept when a client tries to connect to it, it gets 'connection refused' after it's picked up the boot image, when it tries to establish the remote-X session
19:14
<alkisg>
Why the /opt/ltsp mounting? I don't think it'll help, unless your networking is strange...
19:14* DJUnreal wasn't sure if it was needed or not on the slave server
19:14
<DJUnreal>
so i figured better safe than sorry
19:15
<alkisg>
Anyway, since it booted, it's ok, it might just be slower
19:15
<DJUnreal>
yeah, the client boots. from the master server, gets its IP, gets the TFTP image
19:15
<alkisg>
So, try getting a shell screen on a slave client, and login from there to the server with ssh
19:15
!screen_08
19:15
<ltsp`>
screen_08: To get a root shell on a Debian thin client, put SCREEN_07=ldm, SCREEN_08=shell and SCREEN_DEFAULT=07 to lts.conf.
19:15
<DJUnreal>
i used SERVER= in the lts.conf
19:16
<alkisg>
No need for SERVER, better use LDM_SERVER=
19:16
<DJUnreal>
ah ok
19:16* DJUnreal will change that
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19:16
<alkisg>
And you can then ditch the /opt/ltsp mounting
19:16
<DJUnreal>
rgr
19:16
brb, gonna plug some cables in, fire up the servers and see if i can make these changes
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19:29
<DJUnreal>
Welcome Back vagrantc
19:33* vagrantc waves
19:33
<DJUnreal>
just about to do some more testing on this stack
19:34
blimey though, brb while i open some windows 'cause it's gettin' VERY hot in here!!!
19:35
take it from me... 3 enterprise class servers in a living room cause a lot of heat
19:36
especially 10-year-old enterprise class servers
19:37
<vagrantc>
setting up a little home network? :)
19:38
<DJUnreal>
hell no
19:38
this server stack is out at an event with 4000 kids again this weekend
19:38
and i gotta have it working better than it did last weekend
19:40
<vagrantc>
4000 kids in your living room?
19:41
<DJUnreal>
hell no
19:41* DJUnreal is off to the UK Scout HeadQuarters
19:41
<vagrantc>
may LTSP be with you
19:42* DJUnreal laughs, thanks
19:42
<DJUnreal>
it will be, as long as i get the second server to behave
19:47
and as long as i can slap the moron over the head who decided that he would 'fix' stuff
19:47
and made life far more awkward
19:50
<[GuS]>
alkisg: Hi, i dont know if you remember, but the last week i've ask you about rcfiles in Gentoo. The solution you gave me didnt work cause fails to create the file cause read-only
19:50
<alkisg>
[GuS]: I think gentoo is still using bind-mounts, so you'd have to add that file to the bind-mounts list
19:50
Grep for bind through the ltsp sources...
19:51
<[GuS]>
mmm ok...
19:51
<vagrantc>
wow. gentoo is slow to adopt new technologies! :)
19:51
<[GuS]>
sorry to disturb you alkisg... just that i cant never find knipwim to ask him....
19:51
vagrantc: really? :P
19:51
<alkisg>
No problem, but you shouldn't trust my answers much, I've never even seen gentoo running...
19:51
<[GuS]>
for me is a constant fight...
19:52
alkisg: hehe i know... sorry.
19:52
Well, to be honest.. since i work on this company, is the first time i ever used gentoo
19:52
<vagrantc>
[GuS]: well, even Debian has switched away from bind mounts in the last release, and it was feeling like a really antiquated approach for the last coupel years
19:52
<[GuS]>
and... i hate it... i am more debian lover...
19:53
vagrantc: indeed..
19:53
.but i think ltsp in gentoo is not to much mature enough...
19:54
<alkisg>
[GuS]: you can `cat /proc/mounts` on a client to see if gentoo is using bind mounts or not...
19:54
<[GuS]>
let me check
19:54
<vagrantc>
alkisg: finally uploaded a new libpam-sshauth...
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19:55
<alkisg>
Nice! Let's hope ltsp6 is ready for the new debian release... (forgot its name..)
19:55* vagrantc is hoping to make the push for LTSP6
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19:55
<vagrantc>
yeah, really need LTSP6 to be in decent shape in, say about 1 year from now to make sure it's good for Debian's Jessie release.
19:55
<alkisg>
I hope it's there for 14.04 as well, it'll be annoying to have to support different ltsp versions in irc :D
19:56
<[GuS]>
ltsp6? :)
19:56
<vagrantc>
we still see ltsp 4.2 questions, though less and less now that the hardware support is barely there.
19:56* alkisg wants to try out samba 4 before libpam_sshauth though...
19:56
<vagrantc>
alkisg: same idea, though, no?
19:57
ideally, ltsp6 could support any libpam module to accomplish our needs.
19:57
<alkisg>
That will still render LDM deprecated, yeah...
19:57
Let's hope the pam and *DM hooks will be enough to make this work
19:58
<vagrantc>
the proof of concept works, but we'll have to get really clever to figure out a clean way to integrate all the hooks we want.
19:59
<alkisg>
Right... e.g. I don't know of any cross DM way to apply XRANDR_MODE_0...
19:59
<vagrantc>
yeah...
20:00
probably have to put a wrapper around X ... but even then
20:00
<DJUnreal>
vagrantc: as i said before... if you want me to test stuff for you on debian
20:00
i'm more than happy to
20:00
either on real steel or VMs
20:00
<vagrantc>
DJUnreal: well, still need to write more to test :)
20:00
<DJUnreal>
HeHe
20:05
i know it's a lot to ask... but can LTSP6 have a script or similar to handle multiple login servers?
20:06
<[GuS]>
well ,guys, thansk for all like always. have to go. Cya!
20:06
<vagrantc>
DJUnreal: it's not inconceivable
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20:06
<vagrantc>
DJUnreal: the current code supports that... depending on what you mean
20:07
<DJUnreal>
aye, it does, but there's no simple way for non-ubuntu OSs to 'just make it work' as far as i can tell :P
20:07
<vagrantc>
well, the feature was added in order to support a Debian network...
20:08
<DJUnreal>
the LDM_SERVER one?
20:08
<vagrantc>
supports multiple servers...
20:08
<DJUnreal>
ahh right
20:08* vagrantc uses it regularly
20:08
<DJUnreal>
'cause as far as i can tell, ltsp-cluster is ubuntu only in terms of packages...
20:08
hence my hacky attempt at clustering which is a tad on the awkward side :P
20:09
<vagrantc>
yes, nobody's managed to put the time in to port to Debian, but in theory it should be doable.
20:09
<alkisg>
With kerberos etc one would probably be able to create an ssh socket anywhere, so `ltsp-remoteapps <server> <app>` could be supported... i.e. run apps not only in multiple servers, but in multiple clients too
20:10
<DJUnreal>
THAT sounds scary!
20:11
<alkisg>
E.g. we have labs with 6 semi-good clients, 6 bad clients, and 1 lame server... those could be configured so that each bad client can use the CPU of one semi-good client....
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20:12
<alkisg>
It would be OK for 100 mbps networks too
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20:15* DJUnreal points vagrantc to his PM window quickly
20:20
<DJUnreal>
ok, so i've killed the extra mounting of /opt/ltsp
20:21
and tweaked the conf file slightly so instead of SERVER= it's now LDM_SERVER=
20:21
i'll add the root console bit quickly
20:21
<vagrantc>
extra mounting?
20:21
<DJUnreal>
yeah
20:22
i had my slave server mounting /opt/ltsp read-write from the master server
20:22
because i wasn't sure if it was necessary or not so figured it'd be worth doing anyway
20:22
alkisg confirmed it's not
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20:29
<DJUnreal>
Okay
20:29
so it's up
20:29
root shell on 8
20:29
error i'm getting is
20:31
UNKNOWN [10.0.0.2] 9571 (?) : Connection refused
20:31
would i be right in assuming that's a connection attempt on port 9571 ?
20:32
<vagrantc>
sounds like you don't have ldminfod running on 10.0.0.2
20:32
<alkisg>
Try `ssh user@ldm-server-ip` from the root shell
20:32
<DJUnreal>
yes, i can ssh back
20:33
10.0.0.2 is my slave login server
20:33
10.0.0.1 is my master ltsp server
20:33
err...
20:33
that's weird
20:33
REALLY weird
20:33
after i'd established the ssh connection back
20:33
it's now /partially/ worked
20:33
i've got a gui with icons
20:33
(i think i know why it's lost the wallpaper)
20:34
<vagrantc>
did it prompt you to verify the hostkey?
20:34
<DJUnreal>
on the ssh connection, yes
20:34
so it's as we thought on the weekend... a keys issue
20:34
<vagrantc>
so it didn't have the host key for the server.
20:34
<DJUnreal>
so i need to ideally make my slave server use the same host key the master uses
20:34
<vagrantc>
and this is why we're trying to invent ltsp6
20:34
<DJUnreal>
and/or include the slave's host key in the image instead
20:35
<vagrantc>
do the latter.
20:35
<DJUnreal>
can you give me a quick walkthrough on it please? my keys are a little rusty
20:37* vagrantc forgets if ltsp-docs documents tis
20:38
<vagrantc>
yup, it's in ltsp-docs
20:38
presuming it works...
20:39* DJUnreal goes to look
20:39
<DJUnreal>
i must say, you've just made my life very easy
20:39
<vagrantc>
hm.
20:39
--export seems like it may be broken
20:40
yeah, ltsp-update-sshkeys --export is broken, at least on wheezy :(
20:41
<DJUnreal>
i got an error even trying without --export on the weekend
20:42
also... one quick suggestion...
20:42
rather than having a link to the search page on the wiki homepage... integrate the search box there? :)
20:42
<vagrantc>
where?
20:42
<DJUnreal>
http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/LTSPedia
20:43
it's git a little link at the top to 'search' or 'browse our categories'... but it just took me ages to see the 'search' link... i was expecting a box to search in
20:43
could just be me being stupid though
20:43* vagrantc forgets who all is working on the website/wiki
20:46
<vagrantc>
i vaguely recall --export being broken a while back ... wonder if anyone fixed it since
20:49
oh, i guess you have to specify a hostname...
20:50
from server1: ltsp-update-sshkeys --export /etc/ltsp/ssh_known_hosts.HOSTNAME HOSTNAME
20:51* DJUnreal grins
20:52
<DJUnreal>
ooh wait... if it's in /etc/ltsp/ssh_known_hosts.HOSTNAME...
20:52
i should be able to get the keys for my second server and dump them in a file there, right?
20:52
<vagrantc>
ltsp-update-sshkeys adds all files in /etc/ltsp/ssh_known_hosts.*
20:53
<DJUnreal>
oh that's piss easy then
20:53
i just nick the keys from server 2
20:53
<vagrantc>
that's the idea
20:53
<DJUnreal>
paste them in there
20:53
and run an update
20:53* DJUnreal facepalms
20:53
<vagrantc>
but you have to format them in known_hosts format
20:53
<DJUnreal>
aye
20:53
<vagrantc>
i.e. hostname keytype KEY
20:53
<alkisg>
in master server: /usr/sbin/ltsp-update-sshkeys --export /opt/ltsp/ssh/ssh_known_hosts slave-server-ip
20:53
vagrantc: shouldn't that ^ suffice?
20:54
<vagrantc>
alkisg: but then they'll get overwritten when ltsp-update-sshkeys runs a second time without arguments
20:54
<alkisg>
Ah, true
20:54
<vagrantc>
alkisg: you want to store them in the server's /etc/ltsp/
20:54
<alkisg>
I think --export ignores its parameter, though... and always stores it in that location in the chroot
20:55
--export - and then > file might be better
20:55Phantomas has joined IRC (Phantomas!~Phantomas@ubuntu/member/phantomas)
20:56
<vagrantc>
it claims to default to /etc/ltsp/ssh_known_hosts.auto
20:57
<DJUnreal>
time to test again
20:57
i've done the key as .hostname
20:57
updated the lts.conf to point at hostname, not ip
20:58
and run an update-sshkeys
20:58
<vagrantc>
you'll also want to run ltsp-update-sshkeys without any arguments
20:58
<DJUnreal>
i did
20:58
i didn't do an export
20:58
just ran the update
20:58
<vagrantc>
got it
20:58
<DJUnreal>
ahh that's a better error
20:58
presumably if i edit the /opt/ltsp/arch/etc/hosts file
20:58
that'll get handed to the client on boot
20:59
<vagrantc>
yes, but if you run ltsp-update-sshkeys it will overwrite it
20:59
<DJUnreal>
it'll overwrite the hosts file?
20:59
<vagrantc>
er, /etc/hosts ... that may get overwritten anyways
21:00
<DJUnreal>
DNS is a hassle... hosts file entries aren't :P
21:00
<vagrantc>
i think /etc/hosts gets overwritten on boot
21:00
<DJUnreal>
bugger... seems like you're right
21:01
that or it's trying to query dns and since i've not bothered to set the hosts up in dns...
21:01* DJUnreal was hoping for a 'simple' option (ie hosts files)
21:02
<vagrantc>
DJUnreal: you can create /opt/ltsp/$arch/etc/hosts.ltsp and it will be appended
21:02
<DJUnreal>
i assume i'll have to import the keys as a .ip rather than a .hostname
21:02
ooh sweet
21:02
that'll do me
21:02
<vagrantc>
or use HOSTS_0=
21:02
in lts.conf
21:02
er, HOSTS_00 through HOSTS_99
21:03
the latter is probably cleaner
21:03* DJUnreal grins
21:03
<DJUnreal>
now THAT'S weird
21:04
this time when it booted
21:04
the first attempt to hit the server by hostname (resolving the correct IP through a hosts.ltsp) threw the error from earlier for the IP
21:04
but it promptly tried a second time
21:04
and worked
21:04
<vagrantc>
where are you seeing this error, anyways?
21:05
<DJUnreal>
when a client boots
21:05
it goes through all the normal messages
21:05
then the screen blanks as it tries to fire up the GUI
21:05
and then the error pops up instead
21:05
and then the screen blanks again as it retries
21:05
<vagrantc>
sounds like you've got an X configuration problem
21:05
the error is a bit of a red herring
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21:05
<vagrantc>
although you should be able to fix it by installing ldm-server on the ... LDM server
21:07
<DJUnreal>
why is that not handed out as part of ltsp-server?
21:07
<vagrantc>
ltsp-server-standalone includes it
21:07
<DJUnreal>
right... but my secondary server doesn't run -standalone
21:07
because it's not handling TFTP or DHCP
21:07
or anything complex like that
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21:07
<DJUnreal>
it's got ltsp-server installed on it though
21:08
<vagrantc>
and ldm-server wouldn't be appropriate
21:08
at least not as a dependency or recommendation ... it's totally feasible to have an LTSP server that doesn't have any applications on it
21:09
<DJUnreal>
ahh, this might be the question i needed to ask but haven't asked then
21:09
local_apps
21:09
i enabled it
21:09
in the lts.conf
21:09
but it appeared to make absolutely no difference to the performance of anything
21:10
do i need to chroot and install all the apps i want to run locally in the chroot?
21:11
<vagrantc>
yes, and you also need to explicitly run them
21:11
<DJUnreal>
ahh... that'd be where local_menus comes in?
21:11
<vagrantc>
unless you use local_apps_menu_items or something
21:12
for testing, you can run an individual app FOO using "ltsp-localapps FOO"
21:12* alkisg notes that LOCAL_APPS is true by default, no need to set it...
21:12* vagrantc nods
21:12* DJUnreal notes that the two guys who work on this project with him are grade A twits, and insist on him setting it in the config file so they believe it's done
21:13
<DJUnreal>
i've had a weekend of being shouted at by them for things not behaving the way they *THINK* they should :P
21:13* DJUnreal needs to cover his bases well and truly :)
21:15
<vagrantc>
explicit is often better than implicit, true
21:16
sometimes it can cause issues, as cargo-culted obsolete options spread like a virus
21:17* alkisg waves goodnight...
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21:17* vagrantc waves
21:17
<vagrantc>
futilely
21:18
<DJUnreal>
Laughs Out Loud
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21:32
<DJUnreal>
Okay
21:32
so i think that's the majority of the bugs ironed out
21:33
in the same way that etc/hosts.ltsp works
21:33
does etc/fstab.ltsp work too?
21:47
<vagrantc>
doubt it
21:47
the /etc/hosts.ltsp was a quick hack that later got improved with the lts.conf options
21:48
<DJUnreal>
bugger
21:48
is there a way to make the clients pick up specific nfs mounts?
21:50
and/or can you tell me how the hack works so i can implement a similar one for fstab?
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22:03
<vagrantc>
DJUnreal: FSTAB_0 through FSTAB_9 in lts.conf
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22:03
<DJUnreal>
ahh sweet
22:03
ta
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22:05
<vagrantc>
DJUnreal: i'd really recommend using HOSTS_* instead of /etc/hosts.ltsp
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22:46* DJUnreal nods
22:46
<DJUnreal>
sorry, was hooking my radio up
22:46* DJUnreal shall remember that and adjust tomorrow accordingly - put those in the defaults section?
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