IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 9 October 2008   (all times are UTC)

00:00
<monteslu>
anyone awake using fedora 9?
00:00
this bridge stuff is not easy
00:00
I'm gonna have to go ahead and uh sort of disagree that it's the best way to go
00:00
<johnny>
i thought it was built to do that
00:00
and it just automatically worked
00:01
EXCEPT with network manager
00:01
that's the only caveat i've heard
00:07
<monteslu>
problem is that its was build to be used by two NICs
00:08
the bridge network 173.x.x.x is all over the configs
00:08
I dont want the ltsp server on a seperate network
00:08
i just want to hit eth0 and go
00:08
I was perfectly fine with it being my network's dhcp server
00:10
I have a couple of windows machines on the same network, and now they're getting 173 address
00:11
I dont want to nat everything throug the fedora box
00:11
this is a bad default. it's only purpose is to help in testing
00:13
but that could already be done on a bridge network using some other virtualization and the ltsp server as a guest
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00:45
<sbalneav>
night all
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02:52
<maalsa>
hey all, have a few questions about LTSP, anyone care to field them?
02:52
anyone? anyone? bueller?
02:53
anyone at all...
02:54
anyone even alive in here?
02:55
i'm patient, i'll wait.
03:00
maybe i'll just try back tomorrow during "normal hours" even though i could have swore these were "normal hours" for us linuxheads
03:01
<cyberorg>
maalsa, well mind reading plugin is underdevelopment, so till you ask it would be tough you will find someone to help :)
03:02
<maalsa>
haha well i was just testing the waters to see if anyone was even alive in here
03:03
<cyberorg>
maalsa, most people in IRC take it as trap and not answer to meta questions
03:03
<maalsa>
i understand the concept of setting up LTSP on a server, etc. but i'm still not exactly sure what goes on the thin client itself in order to connect to the server
03:03
<cyberorg>
you should just ask whatever it is and someone would answer sooner or later
03:04
TC should be PXE boot capable
03:04
<maalsa>
and what qualifies a TC to be PXE boot capable?
03:04
can PXE be booted off USB?
03:05
er, a USB flash drive?
03:05
<cyberorg>
maalsa, it has a boot rom built into it's LAN card, most motherboards made in last few years have on board lan that is PXE boot capable
03:06
<maalsa>
meaning it sort of boots via ethernet?
03:06
<cyberorg>
maalsa, yes
03:07
<maalsa>
and what if the TC itself already has an OS on it, such as Windows CE, but I want to boot and connect into a server running a distro of linux
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03:25
<v-pro>
are all the packages needed by ltsp in Hardy's main and universe?
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03:35
<cyberorg>
maalsa, LTSP does not care for hard disk, that is why it is called "diskless" system
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08:40
<sbalneav>
morning all
08:40
Nubae: About?
08:40
I did some more formatting on the doc tree last night.
08:49
<jammcq>
g'morning friends
08:50* ogra waves
09:00
<sbalneav>
Morning jammcq
09:01
morning ogra
09:01
<jammcq>
sbalneav: howdie
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09:04
<saxon>
hiya we have the "busy box" issue again, we just came back from holidays and wheen we switch these babies on only 4 of the 40 booted through to logon screen, HELP PLEASE
09:05
<sbalneav>
Which version of LTSP? 5 on Ubuntu?
09:06
<saxon>
we ra update sshkeys and image we are on hardy
09:07
<laga_>
does it work if you reboot the affected clients?
09:07
<Nubae>
yeah
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09:08
<Nubae>
ah there he is
09:09
<sbalneav>
Well, if they're sitting at the busy box, it usually means they can't mount the root either via nbd or nfs
09:09
you might want to restart inetd
09:09
<Nubae>
ok, well thats an eggdrop with a ircscroller frontend... let me put it up on the web, so we can see the logs
09:10
<sbalneav>
Nubae: I did more work on the docs last night, might want to update your branch if you're tracking it.
09:10
<Nubae>
ok, I'll take a look
09:11
do u know if freenode checks for bots?
09:12
<saxon>
sbalneav: how to restart inetd?
09:14
<Nubae>
do /etc/init.d/openbsd-inetd
09:14
restart
09:15
<sbalneav>
sudo invoke-rc.d openbsd-inetd restart
09:15
<Nubae>
if u are on ubuntu/debian
09:15
or dat...
09:15
<sbalneav>
Might also want to make sure there's not a firewall blocking things, or the like.
09:18
<saxon>
sbalneav: did not wwork
09:20
<sbalneav>
what happens if you do a
09:20
netstat -an | grep :2000
09:22
<saxon>
i get several ip address listed
09:24
<sbalneav>
can you paste the results to the pastebot?
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09:24
<sbalneav>
!pastebot
09:24
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
09:27
<ltsppbot>
"saxon" pasted "sbalneavlog" (17 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/28
09:29
<sbalneav>
Looks like you've got at least 13-14 connected.
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09:30
<sbalneav>
So you reboot, and it just immediately drops into the busybox?
09:31
<saxon>
yes
09:33
I am going to reboot server see you on flip side - 1minute
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09:40
<Nubae>
hmmm
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09:44
<saxon>
(16:44:35) saxon: hi now what use to bootup fails as well
09:44
<sbalneav>
Nubae: What we really need's a style guide or something. We've sort of got different formatting conventions in different areas of the manual. Not surprising, given the distributed nature of it's development.
09:45
<Nubae>
yeah and maybe a guide for how to get involved
09:45
like what software to use when editting and such
09:46
<sbalneav>
saxon: Hmmm, might want to try resetting the switch that the terminals are connected to. As well, have you recently installed a firewall on the machine?
09:47
Nubae: Well, we have that doco page on the wiki I set up, putting it there would make sense.
09:47
<Nubae>
yep
09:48
other than Vi, which is unfriendly for most people, especially educators and the like, what can spit out proper docbook XML?
09:48
<sbalneav>
I haven't found, so far, any WYSIWYG Docbook editing tool, and OpenOffice.org only seems to be capable of producing articles, and not the "book" DTD type we want.
09:48
<Nubae>
how about web based app?
09:49
<sbalneav>
I don't know of any, but that doesn't mean they don't exist
09:50
Anything we choose should be capable of not buggering up existing indenting. I don't mind if a new section gets added, if it's not indented correctly, but OpenOffice basically completely hoses indenting, which then makes it tough for people like me who DO just use an editor to manipulate the docbook code directly.
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09:52
<Nubae>
yeah, lets see if there isnt something else
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09:59
<mib_saga>
hii iam using fedoracore 9, i followed the installation instructions in http://wtogami.livejournal.com/23648.html but i cant start my ltsp-dhcpd service and the ltsp-vmclient is not booting up
10:00
any solutions?
10:01
https://www.mibbit.com/pb/0VdV6l this is my ltsp-vmclient output
10:01
<sbalneav>
So dhcpd isn't starting up?
10:02
<mib_saga>
yeah
10:03
<sbalneav>
Might want to check /var/log
10:03
on debian/ubuntu, dhcpd logs to daemon.log, not sure where on Fedora it logs to
10:03
but a quick grep should tell you that
10:03
saxon: Any luck?
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10:07
<mib_saga>
https://www.mibbit.com/pb/5hu7P1 mydhcp logs
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10:08
<ogra>
doesnt look like you have a working config for either device
10:08
<sbalneav>
Well, there's your problem. You haven't modified your dhcpd.conf to fit your networking
10:08
<mib_saga>
oh
10:08
<ogra>
or your networking to fit the config ;)
10:08
(which is the easier way round imho)
10:09
<mib_saga>
is there any guide available to configure dhcp?
10:09
<ogra>
sbalneav, did you see Lns mail to edubuntu-devel about nbd swap and the slowdowns ?
10:09
<sbalneav>
No, hold on?
10:10
<ogra>
warren submitted some code that actually has a bunch of bashisms i didnt catch so the dd process might hang while creating swapfiles and put a lot of load on the server
10:11
i havent had time to look yet, but that might be one of the causes
10:12
<sbalneav>
I'm not actually running nbd swap, since all my terminals have a gig of ram.
10:12
<ogra>
ah
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10:12
<ogra>
but i'm not sure the code isnt run anyway
10:13
<sbalneav>
I'm beginning to think that I'm being hit by the firefox /dev/random vs /dev/urandom thing.
10:13
I'm poking around with that now.
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11:39
<sbalneav>
Nubae: did you have a list of suggestions from yesterday?
11:42
<Nubae>
list of suggestions?
11:43
<sbalneav>
You had mentioned that you had jotted down a list of suggestions from yesterday that people made.
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11:49
<Nubae>
I gave them to u already
11:49
<monteslu>
sbalneav, is the new "/usr/bin/ltsp-localapps <some chroot app>" in fedora 9 the same thing you were working on?
11:49
<warren>
ogra: which file has bashisms?
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11:50
<monteslu>
morning warren. I got the system running
11:50
didn't get flash to work yet
11:51
<sbalneav>
monteslu: Yeah, I did some initial research/proof of concept, and warren, vagrant, and gadi finished it off.
11:51
<monteslu>
coolness
11:51
<Nubae>
warren: ltsp-client-setup
11:51
http://lns.wikidot.com/randomnotes
11:51
<ogra>
warren, the iterating over nbd devices
11:52
i didnt look yet for more but i suspect there is more
11:52
<warren>
Nubae: nobody else uses ltsp-client-setup yet, or do they now?
11:52
<ogra>
warren, thats our default initscript
11:53
<johnny>
warren, i use ltsp-client-setup
11:53
<ogra>
in ubuntu though, but i copied in your code from the upstream branch
11:53
<johnny>
my own slightly modified for gnetoo
11:53
gentoo*
11:53
it is 90% the same
11:54
<warren>
oh, i mixed that up with ltsp-chroot-setup
11:54
<ogra>
warren, how do you init your client if not using the initscript ?
11:54
ah
11:54
:)
11:54
<warren>
which initscript?
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11:54
<ogra>
ltsp-client-setup
11:55
<warren>
I don't even use that
11:55
at all
11:55
<ogra>
ah
11:55
well, we others do :)
11:55
<warren>
I actually touched that file?
11:55
<ogra>
no, i did
11:55
<warren>
so what did I actually break?
11:55
<ogra>
i copy pasted your fix to iterate over nbd devices but didnt check for bashisms
11:56
apparently there is quoting missing ... bash can cope so you dont need to care
11:56
not your fault, my oversight
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11:58
<sbalneav>
We don't have any USE_XFS parameters anymore, right?
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12:10
<loather>
sadly, XFS is deprecated :(
12:11
"LETS ADD EVEN MOAR BLOAT TO THE X SERVER AND MAKE IT DO THIS ITSELF!"
12:15
<sbalneav>
The new XRENDER extention is scads, SCADS better than the old XFS
12:16
XFS used to have a bad habit of hanging up. I had tons of problems in the old days of XFS taking down all my terminals.
12:17
There's lots of bloat to fault X for, but I don't think XFS is one of them, IMHO
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12:18
<loather>
i have problems with the X server chugging while it's rendering fonts.
12:19
usually i enabled xfs and used it instead to combat that problem
12:19
not so much with ltsp, as the terminals only have one CPU anyways
12:20
but on multiprocessor boxes there's no reason to have fonts rendered in the same thread as the rest of your display processing. they should have updated xfs to use the scads extensions instead.
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12:34
<ogra>
wohoo
12:34
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9116787&intsrc=news_ts_head
12:40
<monteslu>
troll
12:40
:)
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12:42
<ogra>
monteslu, pfft :)
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12:51
<nubae>
lo Lns
12:52
<Lns>
hi nubae !
12:52
How's everyone this fine Friday
12:52
<nubae>
Friday?
12:52
Its thursday here still
12:52
<ogra>
looking forward to it :)
12:53
europe is still thu ...
12:54
<Lns>
hold on, damn phone ;)
12:59
<sbalneav>
nubae: More updates. I'll push new versions to the wiki page.
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13:00
<sbalneav>
!docs
13:00
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
13:02
<nubae>
sbalneav: send me your log files
13:03
<sbalneav>
Email?
13:03
<nubae>
info@nubae.com
13:05
<sbalneav>
ok, I'm writing a "getting involved section" on the wiki page. At some point, we're going to want to merge what I've fixed up back into the ltsp-docs-trunk
13:06
<Lns>
ogra: ;) Err..crap, it's thursday here too. (I need to get more sleep)
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13:08
<Lns>
sbalneav, I'll monitor the ltsp.org wiki and try to get that info/link to it on the UbuntuLTSP wiki too - I'm trying to revamp it currently
13:11
<nubae>
sbalneav: how about using docbook wiki? http://doc-book.sourceforge.net/homepage/
13:12
sbalneav: cant u just branch a new ltsp-trunk, write over the XML file and then push?
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13:32
<Lns>
yikes....so much info on the UbuntuLTSP wiki is outdated.. i'm gonna have fun going through all of it!
13:33
<nubae>
yeah theres stuff in there for dapper and feisty
13:33
<ogra>
please leave dapper in but mark it as dapper
13:33
dapper is still supported
13:34
<Lns>
ogra: will do - trying to figure out a clean way to separate the versions yet keep it all sane
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13:38
<nubae>
I guess I should take out all the joins and quits from the logs
13:38
<Lns>
nubae: you talking about for putting the logs up for archive?
13:39
<nubae>
www.nubae.com/logs
13:39
<Lns>
oooo :)
13:39
<nubae>
but yes, archived logs will go there too
13:39
<Lns>
I wouldn't take the joins/quits out, it might be of use to some
13:39
<nubae>
ok
13:44
<Lns>
nubae: when do you think these logs will be available? I'll add your link to the wiki if it's soon, that's a pretty valuable resource
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13:46
<nubae>
well the ones that started today will be available from today
13:47
and the others, I have to see how to feed them into the bot and log to web converter
13:48
<Lns>
ok, i'll just put the link up now
13:48
<ogra>
can you mail the mailinglist ?
13:48
so people are aware
13:48
and jammcq should put it in the topic
13:48
<Lns>
ogra: who?
13:49
<ogra>
Lns, whoever puts the logs in a public place :)
13:50
<nubae>
they are in a public place
13:50
<Lns>
ogra: ok
13:50
<ogra>
right, make the community aware is what i mean and put the link to it in the topic ;)
13:50* ogra is out now
13:51
<Lns>
oh man... i can't wait to sift through all the logs from when i'm not there =p if there was ever something to take up my free time... :p
13:51
<nubae>
Lns why dont u write the email together with a mention of the new docs and the updated wiki
13:51
<Lns>
nubae: sure
13:51
<nubae>
should breathe some life into the mailing lists
13:52
<Lns>
yeah - I've also linked to all of the mailing list archives on the UbuntuLTSP wiki, should be nice to have all in one place
13:52
<nubae>
definetly
13:52
<Lns>
nubae: so you know a bit about bots, eh?
13:53
<nubae>
heh, long ago, I used to code them
13:53
when in Uni... but that was like 12 years ago
13:53
eggdrops and irc took up far too much of my time
13:54
<Lns>
;)
13:54
What is your view on a bot notifying IRC chan when a mailing list post is submitted?
13:55
<nubae>
well, anything like that can get annoying
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13:55
<nubae>
u can really put pretty much anything into these bots, from the tv shows playing and tech news to games and such
13:56
<Lns>
You think it'd be too annoying to have the bot notify the chan when a post is made in, say, ltsp-discuss?
13:56
<nubae>
well ltsp-discuss has almost no traffic, so no
13:56
<Lns>
that's what i was thinking too
13:56
I dunno, just thought it would be a neat way to tie the lines of communication together
13:58
<nubae>
yeah, Ill look into it... gonna add a wikipedia connect too
13:58
so u can do !wiki term and it spits it to the channel
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13:58
<Lns>
oh wow
13:59
nice
13:59
hmm, maybe a !list to show last x # of posts (sender, subject) to a list..?
13:59
instead of auto-notify
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14:03
<nubae>
yeah either way
14:05
!wiki ltsp
14:05
<ltspbot>
nubae: Error: "wiki" is not a valid command.
14:06
<nubae>
heh, the other one is gonna get mad of course, have to change the operator
14:10
<Lns>
yikes...dunno why my list posted 3x in ltsp-developer
14:11
oh nm that's my TB filters
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14:21
<IsleVegan>
i have an amd64 ubuntu 8.04 system as ltsp server and a toshiba tecra a5 notebook as the client. the client will show the orange ubuntu splash display with the oscillating orange bar briefly until the orange bar gets stuck and the caps lock key light blinks and it never moves past that point. this is the point where the bar bounces back and forth...it doesn't get to the steady horizontal progress point. i am using the arch -386, this i
14:23
<Lns>
IsleVegan: do you know how to check the chroot logs for clues and/or turn off the bootsplash to see dmesg?
14:23
<IsleVegan>
hmm, i don't know how :-)
14:25
i was trying various keys to see if it would turn off the bootsplash, but no success so far. F8 and various things
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14:25
<Lns>
IsleVegan: hmm can't find any docs on doing this, i'll have to create some
14:26
<IsleVegan>
LNS: ok, thanks!
14:26
<Lns>
IsleVegan: sudo vim /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
14:26
remove "quiet" and change "splash" to "nosplash"
14:26
reboot thinclient and watch for logs
14:28
<IsleVegan>
mahalo, doing it now
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14:28
<nubae>
@wiki ltsp
14:28
@wiki ltsp
14:28
<ltsplogbot>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ltsp (Requested by nubae)
14:28
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ltsp (Requested by nubae)
14:28
<nubae>
hehe
14:28
<Lns>
woo!
14:29
nice.
14:29
<nubae>
theres a google one too
14:29
hang on...
14:30
<IsleVegan>
"can't open /tmp/net-eth0.conf" "kernel panic, not syncing, attempting to kill init"
14:30
on the client
14:31Egyptian[Home]1 has quit IRC
14:32
<Lns>
IsleVegan: hmm. not sure about that one - what's your client hardware?
14:32
<IsleVegan>
it is a toshiba tecra a5 notebook
14:32
<laga_>
it probably means that it couldn't find the NIC
14:33Egyptian[Home] has joined #ltsp
14:33
<IsleVegan>
which is odd, since it is clearly communicating something with the server for a bit
14:35
<Lns>
I've seen that before with an Asus EEE subnotebook...the driver isn't loaded yet as it's just working off PXE until it loads the kernel driver (AFAIK)
14:35
You probably need to get the driver for your NIC and put it in the chroot
14:35
<IsleVegan>
hmm, ok
14:36
<Lns>
IsleVegan: have you updated the chroot?
14:36toptip has joined #ltsp
14:36* Lns loves suggesting that
14:36toptip is now known as Pascal_1
14:36
<IsleVegan>
lns: how do i do that?
14:36Pascal_1 has left #ltsp
14:36
<Lns>
IsleVegan: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/UpdatingChroot
14:36
<laga_>
you need to put it in the initramfs
14:36
<Lns>
laga_: ah
14:37
<nubae>
@google ltsp
14:37
<ltsplogbot>
nubae, * Google: http://www.ltsp.org/ More: http://www.google.com/search?q=ltsp
14:37
<IsleVegan>
i'm going to try and do what you are saying
14:37
<nubae>
@google fedora
14:37
<ltsplogbot>
nubae, * Google: http://fedoraproject.org/ More: http://www.google.com/search?q=fedora
14:37
<nubae>
hehe fun
14:38
@google Lns
14:38
<ltsplogbot>
nubae, * Google: http://www.lnsamerica.com/ More: http://www.google.com/search?q=Lns
14:39
<laga_>
@google miserable failure
14:39
<ltsplogbot>
laga_, * Google: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3298443.stm More: http://www.google.com/search?q=miserable+failure
14:39
<Lns>
nubae: heh.. it didn't find me :(
14:39
<nubae>
hehehe
14:39
<IsleVegan>
what is this line for in the updating chroot docs: mount -t proc proc /proc
14:39r3zon8 has joined #ltsp
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14:39
<nubae>
IsleVegan: u need that
14:39
<IsleVegan>
ok
14:40
<r3zon8>
need a little help setting widescreen res on ltsp4.2
14:40
<nubae>
it mounts proc in the chroot otherwise some packages like hal and dbus will complain
14:40
<laga_>
"what is this" - "you need it" - "ok" awesome ;)
14:40
ah
14:40
<IsleVegan>
ok, lol
14:40
<r3zon8>
its so difficult to find 4:3 lcds anymore
14:40
<IsleVegan>
:-)
14:40
i'll trust the masters here :-X
14:41elisboa has joined #ltsp
14:42
<IsleVegan>
there were no apt updates
14:43
regarding the initramfs and nic drivers, no idea how to do that
14:43job has joined #ltsp
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14:44
<Lns>
IsleVegan: there should be ~60 updates if you followed all the directions and haven't updated the chroot before
14:45
<IsleVegan>
well, i followed the directions, only a few days ago i did this ltsp install
14:45
so would it have acquired all the updates then?
14:45
when it did the arch -i386 build and so on
14:46
<Lns>
IsleVegan: how did you do the install, from ubuntu alternate cd?
14:47
ltsp-build-client does NOT pull from hardy-updates by default
14:47
ahh, new page :) https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting
14:47
<IsleVegan>
i installed the os install on the server months ago, but the ltsp on it a few days ago...i saw it going online and getting packages that looked like most of the basic OS stuff
14:48alkisg has joined #ltsp
14:48
<Lns>
IsleVegan: post your /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/sources.list file
14:48
<IsleVegan>
ok
14:49
cat /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/sources.list
14:49
deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hardy main restricted
14:49
deb http://security.ubuntu.com//ubuntu hardy main restricted
14:49
sorry :-o
14:50jc2it has joined #ltsp
14:51
<Lns>
IsleVegan: you didn't follow the directions :)
14:51
<IsleVegan>
hmm, i'll look again
14:51
<Lns>
IsleVegan: echo "deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy-updates main restricted" | sudo tee -a /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/sources.list
14:52
<IsleVegan>
sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd -u root i did that from the url i sent and now i don't know what the old password was :-o
14:53
<Lns>
huh?
14:53
<IsleVegan>
eric-home@o-o:~$ sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd -u root
14:53
Password changed.
14:53
<Lns>
ok
14:54
and then sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd
14:54
to assign a pw
14:54
<IsleVegan>
where / what is this password used for?
14:55jc2it has quit IRC
14:55
<Lns>
IsleVegan: to log into the chroot
14:56
I would advise to do a bit of reading on these concepts to familiarize yourself with them, it will make your life a lot easier :)
14:56
<IsleVegan>
yeah, that's what i'm trying to do
14:56jc2it has joined #ltsp
14:58
<Lns>
IsleVegan: the root account in ltsp chroot is disabled by default, passwd -u will activate it and passwd will prompt you to put in a password for that account
14:59
BUT we're trying to update the chroot....so you don't really need to worry about that
14:59
<IsleVegan>
ok
14:59
<Lns>
So you know what to do now?
14:59
<IsleVegan>
no, but i'm working on it
15:00
<Lns>
;)
15:01
When was NBD introduced to LTSP by default in Ubuntu? Was it 7.04?
15:01
<monteslu>
no. things worked in 7.04 :)
15:01
just a guess, i really don't know
15:01
<IsleVegan>
this may seem minor to folks here but to someone new, this kind of thing is confusing, "To fix this, we need to modify our existing /opt/ltsp/arch/etc/apt/sources.list file to include our releases hardy-updates repository as well, and then do an upgrade inside the chroot. First, let's modify our LTSP chroot sources.list (assuming we're using i386-based chroot on an Ubuntu Hardy installation): " some assumptions and understandings need
15:02CAN-o-SPAM has quit IRC
15:02
<IsleVegan>
updates are happening now
15:03
<Lns>
woot :)
15:03
<jc2it>
I have some Neoware Thinclients that I am PXE booting from LTSP + Ubuntu. How do I determine which Via S3 driver to use, for optimum results?
15:03
<IsleVegan>
really though, there are many relatively well informed bits of knowledge that must be in place to do most of this. it's supposed to be so easy to do...not complaining but hoping that it were easier so it can be adopted more readily
15:04
<Lns>
jc2it: not sure, i have some neoware units at one site and the default seems to work..not sure if it's "optimal" though
15:05
IsleVegan: It's not necessarily "so easy to do" when you're digging in and troubleshooting. It's easy to set up, yes.
15:05
<jc2it>
Yes default works, but after reading documentation on Via's site I think they are capable of 3D
15:06
<Lns>
You need to understand how LTSP works fundamentally to be able to troubleshoot effectively - that's what the documentation is for
15:06
<IsleVegan>
i don't consider it to be set up if it doesn't work >:o
15:06
yep
15:06
and i thank you for helping
15:06
<Lns>
IsleVegan: you can't expect every hardware configuration under the sun to work perfectly...
15:07
<IsleVegan>
well, that laptop works with ubuntu directly, booted from the original 8.04 cd and the 7.10 cd before that
15:07
<Lns>
That would be akin to complaining that Windows XP didn't auto-install your hardware drivers for you ;)
15:07
<IsleVegan>
so, i figured, perhaps ASSumed that it would
15:07
<Lns>
IsleVegan: That's where the difference is shown between a local install and LTSP - things happen much differently
15:08
<IsleVegan>
hmm, yes. i was wondering if x actually runs locally on the client or if it's more akin to some kind of improved vnc arrangement
15:09
<Lns>
IsleVegan: X *server* runs on the client, after LDM logs you in (via ssh).
15:09
<IsleVegan>
ok
15:09
<Lns>
Everything else is handled on the LTSP server hardware
15:09
brb
15:09
<IsleVegan>
thanks again
15:09
<maalsa>
so really you're just using a front-end (x server) ?
15:10
piping in here after reading a bit... going to try to set up a small thin client network and unfortunately have very little linux experience
15:12
<Lns>
maalsa: Traditionally in *nix the "X Server" is what calls the "Client" programs. Its kind of backwards terminology
15:13
Think of the X server as *kind of* like a VNC client, but not really. The apps reside on the LTSP server (as client programs being called by the X server on each terminal). All the 'heavy lifting' (cpu/mem/etc) is mostly done on the LTSP server
15:14
and merely displayed on the X server (on the terminal)
15:15
<IsleVegan>
yesterday, i came across something about tftd or something like that...a daemon of some kind and there was a small config file that would make it active or not active, the default was no or not active i believe. i read a suggestion to make it yes, or active.
15:15
anyone know what that might have been?
15:16
tftpd maybe
15:16
hmm
15:16
<Lns>
IsleVegan: tftp is used in the PXE boot process
15:17
IsleVegan: http://www.ltsp.org/~sbalneav/LTSPManual.html#AEN161
15:17
<IsleVegan>
yes, earlier this year or late last year i had a successful ltsp setup
15:17
i believe i read these things several times, but it's been a while
15:18
i never had to do this chroot and update and such before
15:18
<Lns>
IsleVegan: updating the chroot is critical for bugfixes
15:18
<IsleVegan>
on the update, it finished, "update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-2.6.24-19-generic"
15:19
<Lns>
I recently discovered that hardy-updates isn't pulled by default, so hopefully that will be fixed soon
15:19
ok
15:19
<IsleVegan>
is that intentional that the updates aren't happening on their own?
15:19
or, perhaps, the correct updates
15:20
or will this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/UpdatingChroot be necessary for updating the clients' code for the foreseeable future?
15:20petre has quit IRC
15:20
<Lns>
IsleVegan: look at the bug report at the bottom of that page
15:21
<IsleVegan>
hmm
15:22
i get the impression that's kind of a big deal
15:22
surprising it's not fixed, since edubuntu is also such a big deal for ubuntu
15:22
maybe edubuntu has it right? i don't know
15:23rcy has quit IRC
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15:25
<IsleVegan>
ah, here's the file i changed yesterday /etc/default/tftpd-hpa
15:25
the line: "RUN_DAEMON="yes"" was no
15:25
no by default
15:31score has joined #ltsp
15:31
<Lns>
nubae: http://www.ltsp.org/~sbalneav/LTSPManual.html#AEN161 - "The thin-client then boots the downloaded Linux image, detects hardware, and connects to the LTSP server's X session (normally handled by LDM). " actually isn't correct - LDM is launched on the TC then starts an X session after login.
15:33
<IsleVegan>
eric-home@o-o:~$ sudo ltsp-update-image then "Error: chroot /opt/ltsp/amd64 doesn't exist." what is the syntax to get it to work on the i386 portion?
15:34
<nubae>
Lns: have u branched sbalneaes docs trunk?
15:34
<IsleVegan>
is it this: sudo ltsp-update-image --arch i386
15:34
<nubae>
u can then edit it and send up a merge patch
15:35
IsleVegan: rihgt
15:35
<IsleVegan>
YAY, thanks nubae!
15:35
<nubae>
--arch amd64 would be for loading 64 bit clients
15:35
it should really default to 386 though
15:36
<IsleVegan>
it didn't, i have an amd64 server with only an i386 client
15:36DonGnom has quit IRC
15:37
<Lns>
nubae: i haven't - not sure how to do the branching stuff yet
15:38
IsleVegan: ltsp-build-client defaults to the arch of the server install
15:38
<IsleVegan>
ok, that's what i figured. the https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/UpdatingChroot didn't seem to make a difference in the client behavior, but it did seem to get updates
15:39
<Lns>
IsleVegan: k.. well I'm not sure how to manually put drivers in the chroot... maybe someone else can chime in
15:39
if that's even the problem
15:39
<IsleVegan>
ok
15:41
<nubae>
sure, thats my area
15:41
=)
15:41
I'm the chroot customiser.... lol
15:42Guest56518 has joined #ltsp
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15:44
<Lns>
nubae: :p
15:44
<alkisg>
nubae, since you're talking about drivers in the chroot, how about a one-line how to for installing nvidia commercial drivers to the chroot? :)
15:45spectra has quit IRC
15:46
<nubae>
well, it should be similar to installing commercial drivers for ati, which I did about 6 months ago... that involved building the kernel modules as u do in a totally normal fat installation
15:47
<alkisg>
Wouldn't just sudo chroot, apt-get install nvidia-glx-what's-the-package-name be enough?
15:47sharms has joined #ltsp
15:47
<alkisg>
(I do have 2 nvidia clients, I just never bothered to try it... :))
15:48
<sbalneav>
nubae: Do you have any objecttion if I merge my stuff into trunk?
15:48
<nubae>
not at all
15:49
<sbalneav>
ok
15:49
I'll do that tonight.
15:49
<nubae>
alksig it requires linux-restricted-modules-yourkernel
15:49
+ the driver u mention
15:50
<alkisg>
nubae, thanks, I'll try it
15:50
<sharms>
I am on a network where I can't override our existing DHCP setup, I want to use Ubuntu Hardy LTSP server, does anyone know of any LTSP client images that will work with a removable usb key
15:50
<nubae>
and if u want compiz u need to install that in the chroot too
15:51
<alkisg>
ehm... I think compiz would be too much for my extra-super-old thin clients...
15:51
<sharms>
also I dont have much experience in LTSP, will clients on a 1000M network have any issues playing videos etc? Compiz?
15:52
<nubae>
should we put a copy of the docs on one of the bots?
15:52
<sbalneav>
!docs
15:52
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
15:52
<nubae>
could do a !get docs then
15:52
no but actually download them
15:52
from the bot
15:52johnny has joined #ltsp
15:52
<sbalneav>
!get foo
15:52
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: Error: "get" is not a valid command.
15:53
<sbalneav>
Wonder if supybot can handle that.
15:53
hold on
15:53
<nubae>
eggdrop can
15:53
its just a tcl script, but bet supy can too
15:54
<Lns>
sharms: can you simply add DHCP options to your setup or no? You don't have to replace the existing DHCP server, just add some options for PXE clients (wont' affect other clients)
15:54
<sharms>
Lns: Don't have any control of current DHCP server
15:55
so I want to image a USB key with pre-configured network settings
15:56
<Lns>
sharms: try looking here: http://www.ltsp.org/~sbalneav/LTSPManual.html#network-boot
15:57
<nubae>
http://www.bitlbee.org
15:57
<Lns>
sharms: also, i'm sure Gadi would love to sell you one of these: http://thesymbiont.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=137&Itemid=145 ;)
15:57
<nubae>
thats way cool... tunnels traffic between IMs and irc
15:58
<johnny>
except it supports very little of xmpp nubae
15:58
<sharms>
Lns: thanks a bunch
15:59
<Lns>
np
15:59
<johnny>
and neither does that mcabber :(
15:59
<nubae>
johnny: who cares about xmpp
15:59* nubae hides
16:00* johnny kicks you in the irc
16:00
<Lns>
now, now
16:00
<johnny>
i'm connected right now to this irc channel via xmpp
16:00
<nubae>
:p
16:00
<johnny>
go go irc transport..
16:00* johnny <3 gajim
16:00
<Lns>
jabber pwns, there's no doubt about that
16:01
<johnny>
got my pgp encryption too
16:01
btw.. keith olberman said pwn on the air
16:01
that was funny
16:01
<Lns>
hehe
16:01
<nubae>
and how did he say it?
16:01
<johnny>
something about hannity getting pwned
16:01
<alkisg>
sharms, I tried X -query with thinstation boot cd and it connected to an LTSP server
16:01
<johnny>
poh ned
16:02pmatulis has quit IRC
16:02
<Lns>
hehehhe, ned
16:02
<johnny>
just seperate it out
16:02
like powned
16:02
<nubae>
peh wo ned
16:02
<Lns>
oh
16:02
<johnny>
lol
16:02
<alkisg>
sharms, but you could also modify the init scripts in the chroot to make ipconfig use a static ip... too much trouble though.
16:02
<Lns>
poh ned flanders?
16:02
<johnny>
you know.. how a gamer would say it
16:02
owned with a p
16:03
<nubae>
pauned
16:03
<sharms>
ya I will see whats out there and document the process
16:03
<nubae>
@wiki pwn
16:03
<ltsplogbot>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pwn (Requested by nubae)
16:04
<nubae>
pwnalated
16:04
heh
16:05
<alkisg>
sharms, and you may also have 2 dhcp servers, e.g. I have 2 dhcp server in my lab, one only gives ip addresses to windows pcs and the other to ltsp clients
16:05
<sharms>
yeah I am at work right now and unfortunately if I introduce a network change I have to file like 8 weeks of change requests
16:06
<alkisg>
sharms, no, no network change, you don't have to touch the existing dhcp server
16:06
<Lns>
alkisg: 2 dhcp servers on the same network? isn't that kind of ....bad?
16:06
<johnny>
very bad.. unless they run on different ports
16:06
<Lns>
touche', johnny
16:06
<johnny>
sharms, you could run a second one on a different port
16:06
<alkisg>
lns, no, the dhcp protocol specifically allows for as many dhcp servers as you want, as long as each one "behaves".
16:06
<nubae>
heh, a school admins nightmare
16:07
<johnny>
and then setup a rom-o-matic floppy,cd,usb key ..
16:07
<nubae>
but they dont... the usually bring down the entire network
16:07
<Lns>
alkisg: how does the client know which one to use? It's a broadcasted request
16:07
<johnny>
BTW you can even get files via HTTP instead of tftp
16:07
<alkisg>
lns, "man dhcpd.conf" and see for required option
16:07
<johnny>
which is nicer
16:07
<alkisg>
lns, sorry, dhclient.conf
16:07
<johnny>
well.. there's authortative
16:07
and non
16:07
<nubae>
oooh.... gonna do that... add a @man option to the bot
16:07
<johnny>
don't see a reason for that option
16:08
unless you can run multiple
16:08
<nubae>
there will be no more stupid questions without stupid answers
16:08
heh
16:08
<alkisg>
lns, I've just sent a patch for klibc ipconfig, if it gets accepted we'll have that in ltsp also.
16:08
<johnny>
klibc ? what about the one in busybox ?
16:08
<alkisg>
johnny, yes, the one we use in the thin clients
16:08
<johnny>
is that klibc too? i see most of the talk of uclibc
16:09
the buildroot script they host uses uclibc
16:09
<alkisg>
never heard of uclibc! :) But in ubuntu since 7.04 to 8.10 ipconfig is used...
16:09
(klibc)
16:10
<Lns>
alkisg: so what about non-PXE clients requesting an IP - how does the LTSP-specific DHCP server know not to give them addresses?
16:10
The require statement is only for clients needing specific options sent
16:11
<alkisg>
Lns, with the vendor identifier. E.g. "Linux ipconfig" or "PXEClient" => ltsp clients, "MSFT 5.0" => windows PCs
16:11
<Lns>
aahhhh
16:11
<alkisg>
The require statement is for ipconfig to only accept dhcp offers from the ltsp server
16:12
And gpxe has gpxe.priority option. so etherboot works too.
16:12
<Lns>
alkisg: do you mean ifconfig? or is ipconfig something deeper down
16:12
<johnny>
YAY.. cherokee is awesome now
16:12
except for the SSL bug
16:12
you can't have any non ssl vhosts atm
16:12
they aren't https only.. but you do have to have a cert
16:13
<alkisg>
Lns, ipconfig is ran on the ltsp clients at initramfs time
16:13
<warren>
"MSFT 5.0" is an actual dhcp client identifier?
16:13
<alkisg>
That's how they get their (second) ip from dhcp
16:14
warren, yes, for windows pcs with dhcp enabled
16:14
<warren>
oh
16:16
<nubae>
5.0 refers to XP?
16:16
or all windows clients
16:16
<alkisg>
nubae, I think it's the same for all windows clients. Not 100% sure though.
16:17
In any case you can use substring in dhcpd.conf, to look only for "MSFT"...
16:20
(I searched all that trying to make my laptop a plug-n-play ltsp server!!! I did it, I can put it in any lab and it just works (tm) :P)
16:20IsleVegan has left #ltsp
16:21
<Lns>
That's pretty funny...a stealth dhcp server!
16:21
goes right next to the stealth samba server.
16:21sharms has quit IRC
16:24
<johnny>
5.0 is win2k and above maybe?
16:26
<alkisg>
johnny, I've tried it with 2k and XP, and I think it's the same even for 9x, but didn't test it...
16:28
<johnny>
pretty sure that one was called 4.0
16:28
95,98,ME
16:29
<alkisg>
I don't know, but googling for "MSFT 4.0" doesn't show up anything...
16:29
Anyway, substring for "MSFT" should be sure enough! :)
16:30
you mean the internal windows version? I'm not sure that's what 5.0 stand for... or maybe they thought it would be better if it was constant...
16:33
OK, found it: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/266675
16:33
MSFT 98
16:34
<nubae>
@google msft98
16:34
<ltsplogbot>
nubae, * Google:
16:35ltsplogbot has left #ltsp
16:36ltsplogbot has joined #ltsp
16:38ltsplogbot has left #ltsp
16:38ltsplogbot has joined #ltsp
16:38
<johnny>
yeah.. i just figured it would go along with the internal windows version.. guess not :)
16:43
<staffencasa>
could anyone help me with a quick issue? I can't get X to run properly using the latest LTSP server
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16:43
<staffencasa>
I think it's a problem with my xorg.conf and lts.conf files
16:44
did the XF86CONFIG_FILE variable change?
16:44
<nubae>
staffencasa: can u be more specific, how does it not run properly?
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16:45
<staffencasa>
I see the X cursor, then it blanks out, then I get the blue screen that says "Failed to start the X server (your graphical interface). It is likely that it is not set up correctly. Would you like to view the X server output to diagnose the problem?"
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16:46
<staffencasa>
When I say Yes, I get "Warning Failsafe mode was already attempted within 30 seconds.
16:46
and then...
16:46
Warning: falling back to gdm to report the issue
16:46
"
16:46
that's it
16:47
<nubae>
X_CONF us that
16:47
use
16:47
<staffencasa>
yeah, I tried that and still no go..
16:47
<nubae>
ok, what card?
16:48
<staffencasa>
it's an onboard intel card
16:48
<nubae>
ok, intel sometimes requires 16 bit color
16:48
<staffencasa>
it worked with older versions of ltsp
16:48
<nubae>
set X_COLOR_DEPTH = 16
16:48
and if that doesnt work = 15
16:49
<staffencasa>
i have to do a ltsp-update-image afterwards right?
16:49
<nubae>
but if you have a custom configuration file I dont see why its not working... is the configuration file in the chroot?
16:49* staffencasa is still getting used to the new version
16:49
<johnny>
you could try just setting CONFIGURE_X=F
16:49
<nubae>
no... for lts.conf values, no reboot is necessary
16:49
<johnny>
if you don't need serial devices
16:49
<staffencasa>
I don't
16:50
<johnny>
nubae, that is.. unless they are editing the in in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf . the deprecated one
16:50
<staffencasa>
lts.conf is in /etc, not /opt/ltsp/i386/etc, correct?
16:50
<johnny>
also.. a new chroot should be generated after an upgrade
16:50
no
16:50
in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386
16:50
<nubae>
right
16:50
with [default] as the first line
16:50
<johnny>
the one in the chroot still works.. but you do have to update the image then
16:51
<nubae>
staffencasa: is it a new install or an upgrade?
16:51
<staffencasa>
it's a new install on a test server
16:51
<nubae>
ok, then use the /var/lib location
16:51
<staffencasa>
I copied my custom configs to the directory they used to be in
16:52
so change the lts.conf file in /var/lib, correct?
16:52
<nubae>
yeah
16:52
<staffencasa>
okay, I'll give that a shot
16:56
I copied my lts.conf file from /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ and put it in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/ and still no go
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16:56
<staffencasa>
it might be worth noting that i'm using the -kiosk option when building the client
16:57
I was going to try imaging this box back to an older version and then upgrading it and see what happens
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16:58
<nubae>
try a normal chroot first
16:58
see if that works
16:59
<staffencasa>
k, so build a client w/o the kiosk option?
17:01
<nubae>
yeah just ltsp-build-client --chroot <nameofchroot>
17:01
if u dont wanna overwrite your kiosk chroot
17:01
<staffencasa>
I'll just move it
17:01
i don't need to update anything else if I do, right?
17:02
<nubae>
no
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17:34
<staffencasa>
nubae, I keep getting a "terminated abnormally" after it can't find xubuntu-artwork-usplash. Is Xubuntu not going to work for a server?
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17:36
<nubae>
not as a server I dont think, no
17:36
you can install a fat client... ie a chroot that contains xubuntu
17:37
<staffencasa>
yeah, I don't want any fatties
17:37
<nubae>
but thin clients running xubuntu, I'm not sure if thats being done
17:37
<staffencasa>
I did it with an older version, but there's no reason I need to
17:38
I'll just install Ubuntu and see what happens
17:38
thanks for your help
17:38
<nubae>
does xubuntu use hal/dbus/udev?
17:38* staffencasa shrugs
17:39
<staffencasa>
I was just looking at distros and liked xfce better, so I thought I would try it
17:44
nubae, I added universe to the 000-basic-configuration file and it worked
17:45
I'm staring at a Xubuntu login screen
17:45
on my client
18:08* stgraber is working on preseeded ltsp-cluster demo server.
18:09
<stgraber>
Basically you put boot the CD, select the main network card, enter a hostname and after rebooting the system will be running openvz with a VM for each service, load balancing in place and autologin turned on.
18:09
host being hardy and guest intrepid
18:10
<warren>
per-logged in user VM?
18:11
<stgraber>
well, you'll get: a host server running hardy and 5 VMs on top of it (intrepid): bootserver (nbd,tftp,dhcp), loadbalancer, controlcenter, appserver1, appserver2
18:11
the VMs are bridged with the second NIC
18:12
so you can then boot your thin clients, they'll autologin and be ready to use
18:12
(that was initially designed for demo setup for our customers)
18:13
<warren>
the VM's are only for paranoid reasons then
18:13
openvz would be great to make each user unable to see other user's processes
18:14
I tried that approach back with the old vserver (similar to openvz). It worked, but it was tiring because I had to build my own kernel.
18:15
<stgraber>
yeah, we also have some vserver at the office ... having to patch a old 2.6.22 to make it work.
18:15
openvz is proposed in hardy so it's easy to use :)
18:15
I just tell the installer to use a different kernel and that's it
18:15
<warren>
it is a bit crazy to ship that in your standard kernel
18:15
we had kernel engineers try VERY HARD to make it upstream capable a few years ago
18:15
architecturally it is just impossible
18:16
also consider that if your kernel has it, even if most users don't know about it...
18:16
that's a great way for someone to hide processes on someone's system
18:17
<stgraber>
it's not the default kernel. we have -generic (desktop), -server (server), -xen and -openvz as in-distribution kernels for hardy
18:17
<warren>
oh.
18:17
<stgraber>
well, not really as the host sees all the process running in the guests, you can't (AFAIK) hide a process from the host
18:18
(you can do that with vserver though)
18:18
<warren>
oh
18:18
vserver, the host cannot see processes by default
18:25
<nubae>
stgraber: how are u doing authentication across the cluster?
18:26
<warren>
http://www.ltsp.org/~sbalneav/LTSPManual.html
18:27
how do we get corrections into this?
18:27
it is not called k12ltsp
18:27
<stgraber>
depends on where we implement it
18:27
<warren>
also, wouldn't it be better to link each distro's own directions than to copy an outdated copy here?
18:27
also, I don't know a single case where copying the server's fedora.repo into the client is needed
18:28
<stgraber>
nubae: we have customers with existing active directory or novell directory, otherwise it's usually openldap
18:28
nubae: for the demo server, it's autologin so no need for any of that
18:30
<nubae>
warren: remember when I asked for instructions for Fedora Ltsp?
18:30
that was what it was for :p
18:30
but its located on launchpad... branch it from ltsp-doc-trunk
18:31
if u give me corrections though, I can do ti
18:31
it
18:35
<warren>
nubae: what if I don't want any fedora directions in there
18:35
nubae: I want only pointers to the fedora directions
18:36
<nubae>
fine give me the pointers and I'll change it
18:37
<warren>
nubae: we're busy moving everything now to k12linux.org... i'll write stuff after the move is done
18:38
<nubae>
k
18:41
<staffencasa>
nubae, I re-ran ltsp-build-client with the kiosk plugin and it worked. i'm thinking I monkeyed with it too much
18:44
since I'm new to this version, I'm still a little shaky on the process. If I add files to my chroot, I need to re-run ltsp-update-image, correct? For example, if my chroot is /opt/ltsp and I add a few scripts to run in /opt/ltsp/home/kiosk/, I would need to run ltsp-update-image, right?
18:45
<nubae>
yeah
18:45
everything changed in the chroot requires doing an update
18:45
<staffencasa>
sweet, thanks
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19:01
<Lns>
nubae: FYI xubuntu has had LTSP support for a loooong time :)
19:02
<nubae>
cool
19:02* Lns waves goodnight to chan
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20:38
<petre>
warren, ping
20:38
<warren>
i'm going to sleep now
20:38
please e-mail
20:38
the list
20:38
<petre>
will do
20:48
<sbalneav>
Evening all
20:48
<petre>
hey sbalneav
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20:51
<sbalneav>
Evening petre
20:53
<stgraber>
hey sbalneav
20:54
<sbalneav>
Eveing stgraber
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21:14
<petre>
any fedora folks around?
21:26
<warren>
(Notes the lack of other people working on the Fedora packages. The remaining changes to release are VERY SIMPLE yet everyone is waiting on me due to my high stress and health problems.)
21:26
add insomnia and extreme pain to the list
21:26* warren tries to sleep again
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