IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 4 November 2009   (all times are UTC)

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00:32
<sbalneav>
ltspbot: status
00:32
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: I am connected to freenode as ltspbot.
00:32
<sbalneav>
!topics
00:32
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: Error: "topics" is not a valid command.
00:33
<sbalneav>
!flash
00:33
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: Error: "flash" is not a valid command.
00:33
<sbalneav>
sigh
00:33
!karma
00:33
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: Error: "karma" is not a valid command.
00:33mushroomtwo is now known as bedroomblue
00:33
<sbalneav>
johnny: no.
00:34
Gotta get the bot going first :(
00:34
meh, get that going tomorrow.
00:34
<johnny>
we'll survive
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00:47
<sbalneav>
Well the X performance HAS gotten a lot better.
00:47
Warcraft III for the kids will be better
00:48
and warzone2100 for me seems peppier.
00:55
f-spot came back, that's good
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01:38
<mcarter>
hello
01:38
I specified a custom xorg.conf file in my lts.conf, and now when the client boots it has the proper resolution on the login screen. After I login, I have a black screen (with the proper resolution) and a mouse cursor, but thats it. It seems like an x session is active, but nothing else. Any ideas what the cause might be?
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03:28
<Sireorion>
how do i use ltsp after i rebooted the server
03:29
<alkisg_work>
Sireorion: what do you mean? you just boot the clients...
03:29
<Sireorion>
no it dont word
03:30
i restarted my ltsp server and after that my clients dont find any server... sorry for my bay inglish
03:30
<alkisg_work>
Any messages? do they get an ip address? do they load the kernel?
03:31
<Sireorion>
1 it dont get any ip from dhcp
03:31
<alkisg_work>
What distro/version is that?
03:32
<Sireorion>
ubuntu 9.10 Ltsp v5
03:32
<alkisg_work>
Is your dhcp server running'
03:32
?
03:32
sudo invoke-rc.d dhcp3-server status
03:33
<Sireorion>
Status of DHCP server: dhcpd3 is running.
03:35
<alkisg_work>
And it was working before the reboot? Are your cables ok?
03:35
<Sireorion>
yes
03:36
changed the cables
03:36
now it come a massage "boot file server protocol not specified"
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03:37
<alkisg_work>
Can you upload your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf file to pastebot?
03:37
!pastebot
03:37
<ltspbot>
alkisg_work: Error: "pastebot" is not a valid command.
03:37
<alkisg_work>
...to http://pastebot.ltsp.org ?
03:38
<ltsppbot>
"sireorion" pasted "lstp problems" (22 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/4
03:40
<alkisg_work>
Sireorion: is it possible that you have another dhcp server in your network?
03:41
<Sireorion>
found a successful DHCP server or relay agent - 192.168.2.8
03:41
successfully connected with bootfile server - 192.168.2.8
03:42
boot file server protocol not specified
03:42
<alkisg_work>
and that's your ltsp server?
03:43
<Sireorion>
yes 192.168.2.8
03:45
alkisg_work, i think i have to specify ltsp to use tftp
03:48
<alkisg_work>
tftp is the default boot protocol, I don't think the problem is there.
03:49
<Sireorion>
okey a freind sayed something about "option option-221 "tftp";"
03:49
<alkisg_work>
I've never heard of anyone needing such an option to boot its clients
03:50
<Sireorion>
he used that on this thin when hi had them
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03:58
<Sireorion>
alkisg_work, do u have any sulotion
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04:51
<AlecTBM>
sbalneav: still here? Memory: 128MB Flash/256MB RAM
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04:54
<AlecTBM>
they are just going to be used for websurfing and msn
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05:07
<dmarkey>
has anyone came up with a management interface for LTSP
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06:24
<alkisg>
I'm thinking of making a package that will provide /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img *without* the chroot. It will also depend on nbd-server, ltspfs, openssh-server etc, but *not* on ltsp-server. It'll use dnsmasq as the tftp and (proxy)dhcp server.
06:24
The target group is small schools without sysadmins. Any reasons why this would be a bad idea?
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06:25
<Sireorion>
alkisg: do u have any sulotion on my probleme i told u about
06:26
<alkisg>
Sireorion: do you have a client with a cd or floppy drive? It would be easier to debug this if you booted with gpxe (etherboot.org)
06:27
<Sireorion>
no i dont have any cd o floopy drive,
06:28
but i got an usb cd drive but isnt boot compatible with the clients
06:28
'i got cf 4 gb in it cant i just install dsl or something on that?
06:28
<alkisg>
Sure
06:29
<Sireorion>
can i do the install on a outher pc or how does that work
06:29
<alkisg>
Do you have an outer pc that you can use as a client?
06:29
That would be easier...
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06:31
<alkisg>
Sireorion: e.g. if you have a laptop running ubuntu, you could troubleshoot with this...
06:32
<Sireorion>
okey can i run live ubuntu on my big computer
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06:53
<alkisg>
Sireorion: ok put your big computer into the same switch that you use for the thin clients...
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07:06
<rjune>
What's the multi workstation desktop viewer?
07:10
<alkisg>
italc?
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07:14
<rjune>
alkisg, yeah, that's it
07:14
danke
07:15
<alkisg>
bitte :)
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08:52
<sbalneav_ep>
Morning all
08:52
<Brian_H>
what is the proper way to install new applications for thin clients? in the chroot?
08:53
morning :)
08:53
<sbalneav_ep>
Sigh, upgraded my home box last night, forgot to install sshd
08:53
now I can't get to my irssi session
08:53
having to use epiphany <shudder>
08:54
Brian_H: Are you running localapps?
08:54
<Brian_H>
no
08:54
<sbalneav_ep>
if not, then no, just install them on the server.
08:54
<Brian_H>
ok, just want to make sure "I'm doing it right" :)
08:55
so for non-local apps I can just install the app on the ltsp server (not the chroot) and it will work?
08:57
<ogra>
sbalneav_ep, epiphany ?
08:57
<sbalneav_ep>
yes.
08:57
yup
08:57
<ogra>
why not firefox ?
08:57
<sbalneav_ep>
I'm nothing if not predictable.
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08:57
<sbalneav_ep>
Does firefox have a chat client?
08:57
<ogra>
does epiphany ?
08:57
<sbalneav_ep>
apparently it does, since I'm using it.
08:57
<ogra>
(do you mean empathy ?)
08:58
<sbalneav_ep>
ah
08:58
epiphany, emphathy
08:58
<ogra>
epiphany is a webkit based browser
08:58
:)
08:59
<sbalneav_ep>
ogra: You know anything about cups? Apparently there was a big transition either in jaunty or i* that all printing's done via pdf
08:59
<ogra>
no, no cups specialist
09:00
<sbalneav_ep>
Hmm, I'll have to track one down.
09:00
<ogra>
i usually hunt down tkamppeter in #ubuntu-devel if i dont get along with the two prints a year i have to do
09:00
<Appiah>
urggh printers
09:00
cups is scary , but was nice to me
09:01
easily let me configure a printer that only the teachers could print to
09:01
phew
09:02
<arx>
Ubuntu 9.10 LTSP: Trying to remove the suspend and hibernate options from the Indicator-applet-session applet. How do you do it?
09:02
<ogra>
they shouldnt be shown at all
09:03
<sbalneav_ep>
Cups is broken again. I fixed it once, but I suspect that the "new all pdf all the time" method is broken too.
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09:06
<arx>
ogra: they do... they don't work, but they still show up.
09:07
<ogra>
arx, file a bug against indicator-session please ... there is a patch that seemingly wasnt forward ported ... it should respect the LTSP_CLIENT env variable thats set by LDM on login
09:09
<arx>
ogra: there does appear to be a bug already... I think it's for the same thing anyway. bug #432598. it refers to gnome-power-manager though... same thing?!
09:10
<ogra>
arx, nope
09:10
thats about the gconf keys
09:11
<arx>
k
09:11
<ogra>
the fusa applet (as indicator-session was called before) had a patch that checked for LTSP_CLIENT being set in your environment (which the display manager we use in ltsp does) and didnt show these options at all
09:12
i assume you use a standard setup
09:12
and didnt tinker with things like XDMCP or some such
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09:22
<arx>
yes, standard setup... no tinkering
09:25
<Gadi>
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fast-user-switch-applet/+bug/282610
09:29
<ogra>
Gadi, yeah, thats the patch
09:29
arx, you could refer to that bug in yours
09:29
<arx>
ok
09:39
<squarepeg>
arrgth..damn kids are too smart..
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09:45
<sbalneav_ep>
argh, this is just.... completely broken.
09:45
Go into OpenOffice.org
09:45
go to page styles
09:45
edit envelope page style. Com 10, feeding from envelope feeder.
09:46
apply style
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09:46
<sbalneav_ep>
print
09:46
plain paper comes out.
09:46
<ogra>
saves ink :)
09:46
<sbalneav_ep>
No
09:46
<ogra>
probably the new "green cups"
09:46
<sbalneav_ep>
Means Linux won't work at this office anymore.
09:46
Means converting to windows.
09:47
Thats what it means.
09:47
<ogra>
nah
09:47
<sbalneav_ep>
yeah
09:47
if I can't fix it.
09:47
<Appiah>
ouch
09:47
<ogra>
just fix the printer driver
09:47
what kind of printer ?
09:47
<sbalneav_ep>
It's not a printer driver proble,
09:47
it's a cups/openoffice problem.
09:47
<ogra>
well, i have seen similar stuff with HP printers
09:47
with several
09:48
<Appiah>
what's the issue there? they using the wrong paper or what?
09:48
<IHS_Volunteer>
I think I find a hardware design error in these HP's optical drives. I just found 3 of them were jammed. Took a lot of effort even with a paper clip, and physical violence to the case didn't help, either.
09:48
<sbalneav_ep>
https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cupsys/+bug/307471
09:48
<IHS_Volunteer>
sort-of-wc.
09:49
<sbalneav_ep>
I spent 2 months fixing it in June of 2008
09:50
<Gadi>
sbalneav_ep: what does the %%IncludeOption directive do?
09:50
<sbalneav_ep>
Include's options. Like switching paper trays.
09:50* Gadi prints envelopes fine on Intrepid
09:50
<sbalneav_ep>
off to a meeting.
09:51
<Gadi>
ah - so when you select a tray in the driver, it doesn't listen?
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10:03
<arx>
ok... I'm clueless. I am at bugs.launchpad.net but I don't see anywhere to report a bug...
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10:22
<alkisg>
arx: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp
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10:27
<arx>
alkisg: thanks!
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10:40
<arx>
ok, so now that I have the bug submitted, I have another issue...
10:41
with jaunty, my clients would shutdown and reboot as expected. with karmic, the client hangs.
10:42
I think this is a kernel issue. Is there anyway to revert back to the "old" jaunty kernel in the chroot?
10:43
btw, here are the errors I receive on the clients screen when I try to do a reboot:
10:43
nbd0: Receive control failed (result p4)
10:43
nbd0: Attempted send on closed socket
10:44
end_request: I/O error, dev nbd0, sector 474346
10:44
error: squashfs_read_data faile to read block 0xe79d641
10:45
blah, blah, blah... a bunch more similar errors.
10:45
<alkisg>
arx: a bug for reboot in karmic was reported,
10:45
and a fix was submited (= -fp parameter to reboot or something like that)
10:46
Search in launchpad for the fix, and apply it manually, as I don't think it's in any ppa yet.
10:46
(in the ltsp bugs page)
10:46
<arx>
ok
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11:11
<arx>
found it... finally. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ldm/+bug/457702
11:14
...how do I apply this patch?
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11:21
<norbi905>
Hello all. Looking into setting LTSP up. But before I do, I have a question. I am a part time gamer myself. How is the thin-client/LTSP server for games? Am I barking up the wrong tree? Any input is appreciated.
11:24
The connection between server and switch would be dual Gig, meanwhile server/client would be 10/100.
11:32
<IHS_Volunteer>
Server could play games, the clients will be way to slow for anything that updates the screen often
11:32
<alkisg>
norbi905: you should be able to play the gnome games, but not anything sdl based :)
11:33
<norbi905>
Thanks, would this hold true for streaming movies as well?
11:33
<IHS_Volunteer>
You might be able to do 1-2 clients playing 3D games if you use DIRECTX and gigabit ethernet.
11:34
Streaming movies needs DIRECTX, and a full screened Youtube video on a 800x600 screen used 30-38MB/s on my setup.
11:34
<alkisg>
norbi905: the formula for movies, when xv is used, is: width x height x 12 bit/sec. Do your math :)
11:34
x fps, I forgot that
11:35
I.e. an 640x400@25 movie needs about 50 Mbps independed of the screen resolution (the scaling happens on the client)
11:36
A DVD needs about 125 Mbps. Barely viewable with a 100 mbps client.
11:36
<johnny>
of course.. if your clients are powerful enough to run the games locally, you can keep everything else remote
11:36
startup time will probably be a little higher
11:36
<IHS_Volunteer>
flash videos are an extra pain in the butt, by the way.
11:36
<johnny>
but the games will play better
11:37
<IHS_Volunteer>
and my time is up, later.
11:37
<johnny>
so then the benefit is centralized management
11:37
and using *most* things from the server
11:37
just not all
11:38
<norbi905>
Ok, so let me try to understand this. I can stream a DVD quality video now wirelessly on a 54 connection and it works fine. This is just a workstation remotelly connecting to a Windows share on another computer. But if I understand correctly this is not possible in a thin-client/server way?
11:39
The games I can live without, but movie/audio streaming will really put me down if it's not possible :(
11:39
<alkisg>
"I can stream a DVD quality video now wirelessly on a 54 connection and it works fine." ==> you don't send the uncompressed picture. You stream the video. LTSP sends the uncompressed picture.
11:39
norbi905: to see the quality, do this:
11:39
ssh -Y a_remote_linux_machine
11:39
totem some_video
11:40
<norbi905>
AHH that makes sense. But why would the LTSP server not decode the video and send it then?
11:40
<alkisg>
The quality you'll see it pretty much the same as the LTSP will offer you.
11:40
<norbi905>
unfortunatelly i'm at work right now :) sorry
11:41
<alkisg>
The LTSP server doesn't know or care about what you do with X windows. Anything you see on your screen is "transferred" by X windows. So video is just screens that are being sent over the network. LTSP doesn't know or care about encoding/decoding.
11:42
So when you play a DVD, it's decoded on the server, and the uncompressed frames are sent over the network => much network traffic
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11:44
<norbi905>
AHH ok, thank you. I was under the impression that the client would have to do the decoding which did not make sense. So all is good provided your network connection between client/server is greater than the required bandwidth of the DVD file?
11:44
<alkisg>
yes
11:45
I.e. 125 mbps for dvd playback
11:45
<norbi905>
I do have 4 individual GiG ports on the switch, I might just use one for the home theater aspect of it. Seems like it is a must.
11:46
<mushroomblue>
though mp4/mkv playback is much better on your bandwidth.
11:47
had 25 boxes running Harold & Kumar in XviD, and it didn't stutter at all.
11:48
<johnny>
norbi905, if your clients are powerful enough.. run the media locally
11:54
<norbi905>
mushroomblue: These DVD are ripped collection and encoded with xvid. Your are saying that these would work better on a 10/100 connection? I will have to do some bandwith tests for sure. Thanks.
11:55
johnny: I do not have the clients just yet. In the planing stages currently, want to make sure I get the right things before I dive into it.
11:55
<mushroomblue>
norbi905: they'll definitely work better, but my LTSP server had GigE. :)
11:55
<norbi905>
mushroomblue: GigE to clients?
11:55
<mushroomblue>
indeed. I don't think we had more than 2 10/100 ports on the entire network.
11:56otavio has joined #ltsp
11:56
<norbi905>
mushroomblue: Unfortunatelly a fully populated 24 port GigE switch is out of bounds for me. Did manage to convince wife about a 24 port 10/100 including 4 GigE ports. I'm working on a tight budget here :)
11:57
<mushroomblue>
hah. LTSP will probably work fine for a home network, unless you have 9 or 10 boxes that do nothing but stream media 24/7
11:58Lns has joined #ltsp
12:01
<norbi905>
mushroomblue: At most I'd have 2 connecting to the LTSP server hitting it with media requests. I am a bit worried about the connection speed at which movies would play though. Have to look into compression though and try to see if I can do it through a 10/100 and which works the best
12:01shawnp0wers has quit IRC
12:01mikkel_ has joined #ltsp
12:02
<mushroomblue>
oh dude.
12:02
2 clients? that's fine.
12:04
<norbi905>
mushroomblue: So lets say 2 clients are connected to the LTSP server. One playing music audio, the other playing an Xvid coded movie. Will a 10/100 connection from each client be sufficient?
12:05
<alkisg>
norbi905: one client on a 100 mbps can't play a dvd properly. And forget all about HD :) xdiv / divx is usually fine, though...
12:05
<norbi905>
mushroomblue: Question, does the encoding of the movie make a difference? I am assuming not, since the decoded file being sent over the network would be just as huge as a movie endoded with a different codec. Am I right?
12:05
<mushroomblue>
yeah. mp3 is 320kbps tops
12:05
norbi905: yes. it does make a difference.
12:05
<alkisg>
The codec doesn't matter. Only the frame resolution and fps matter
12:06
<mushroomblue>
if you encode at 1080p, it'll be a much larger stream
12:06
but I've been able to stream 1080p mkv files to a ps3 over wifi
12:07
<alkisg>
The formula is: width x height x frames-per-sec x 12 if you use xv (YV12)
12:07
mushroomblue: the screens, or the file?
12:07
<norbi905>
I have a 16 drive RAID0 stripe set-up currently. My DVD's will be ripped to this RAID unit. I will encode them with one of most recommended free encoders, so it wont be pure DVD quality.
12:07
<Brian_H>
question: I have a quad core xeon for my ltsp server, linux sees 8 threads, should I tell ltsp to use 4 since there are only 4 cores, or 8 since linux sees "8 cpus"
12:08
<mushroomblue>
alkisg: ?
12:08
<alkisg>
mushroomblue: I mean, did you stream the uncompressed video, or did you just connect the file system e.g. with ssh and stream that?
12:08
<norbi905>
Brian_H: Your Xeon CPU has 4 physical cores, and 4 virtual cores.
12:08
<alkisg>
There's a huge difference between those 2 methods
12:09
<Brian_H>
norbi905: ok, so what should I tell my ltsp kvm image to use 4 or 8 :) ?
12:09
<alkisg>
One needs 480 Mbps, the other one < 10 Mbps.
12:09
<chrisinajar>
norbi905: 16 disks in a raid0? that sounds like a disaster waiting to happen...
12:09
<Brian_H>
(I should of specified that early my apologies :p that would of helped frame the question a little better)
12:10
<norbi905>
chrisinajar: Backed-up regularly to tape :)
12:10
<Brian_H>
you could use drbd for realtime replication if you want HA :)
12:12
<norbi905>
Brian_H: I am not sure about your question. The Xeon CPU 5500 series that we use here are extremelly well capable of using all 4 "virtual" cores. Not sure why you would want it to be used.
12:13
<Brian_H>
norbi905: thats the same series I have, I was just questioning whether I should tell kvm to use all 8 for my ltps image or not
12:13
<mushroomblue>
alkisg: streamed uncopmpressed video.
12:13
<Brian_H>
the reason I ask is sometimes ltsp seems slugish on a client here and there
12:13
<alkisg>
mushroomblue: with 1080p? and how much fps?
12:13
<norbi905>
Brian_H: Maybe someone with more experience can help you with that question :) Sorry
12:13
<mushroomblue>
transcoded from .mkv to x264
12:13
alkisg: from what I could tell, it was 60fps
12:14
<alkisg>
mushroomblue: "uncompressed" => the format doesn't matter
12:14
Why do you keep mentioning the format? uncompressed == raw... no mkv, no x264, no xdiv, no divx... nothing, plain raw screens like LTSP does :)
12:14
At 60 fps, that would need more than 600 mbps
12:15* alkisg does the exact math...
12:15
<alkisg>
1492992000 bits per second
12:15
So unless your wireless is at 1.5 Gbps, there's no way to stream that uncompressed...
12:16* alkisg guesses that you stream the file through a network file system, not the video screens...
12:17
<alkisg>
bbl, bye all...
12:18alkisg has quit IRC
12:34woodthechuck has joined #ltsp
12:37
<kdegel>
ogra:
12:37
Gadi:
12:37
sbalneav_ep:
12:38
<sbalneav_ep>
yes?
12:38
<kdegel>
I have a question about this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/463369
12:38
over the weekend and the last couple days there was a good amount of updates
12:39Peste_Bubonica has quit IRC
12:40
<sbalneav_ep>
So what's the question?
12:40
<kdegel>
which fixed the server gui from being all flaky, but the thin clients still are unable to log in, do you think this is still an issue with the radeon driver? the #compiz team figured out that it is actually a graphics driver issue, I was working with the #radeon team on Friday but I had to leave and then the last couple of days I had meetings
12:41
I just want to make sure that I'm working/talking with the correct team, and the #ltsp channel seems to be the best at replying with information :)
12:42bieb has joined #ltsp
12:42
<sbalneav_ep>
Sounds to me like you're talking to all the right people.
12:42
Doesn't mean the bug will get fixed, though :)
12:43
<kdegel>
ok, just seems weird that the graphics driver on the server would keep the thin clients from logging in
12:43
<sbalneav_ep>
It's because of the compiz check.
12:43
<Gadi>
kdegel: is that even with the modified /usr/bin/compiz?
12:43
<sbalneav_ep>
compiz should disable the check.
12:44
<kdegel>
Gadi: yeah, I uninstalled compiz and it didn't do a thing, the compiz people said that it wasn't even triggering compiz because the grphics chip wasn't calling for it
12:44
<Gadi>
well, either compiz disables the check or radeon fixes the problem with the check
12:44
<kdegel>
the graphics chip is a server grade chip, so...
12:45
<johnny>
oh how i hate thee nvidia :(
12:45
<kdegel>
its ati
12:45
<johnny>
still no drivers for my 173xx for xorg 1.7
12:45
<kdegel>
I like nvidia
12:45
<johnny>
nvidia is terrible with drivers..
12:45
<kdegel>
oh sorry, nevermind what I just said
12:45
<Gadi>
kdegel: I thought last we left our hero, when you replaced /usr/bin/compiz, everything was cool on the client
12:45
and only the server was wigging out
12:45
<woodthechuck>
does LTSP 5 have drivers for the Realtek NIC r6040?
12:46
<johnny>
woodthechuck, ltsp has drivers for nothin
12:46
zero
12:46
<kdegel>
Gadi: yes
12:46
<johnny>
nada
12:46
<kdegel>
I think that is correct, have to look at the bug report again
12:46
<johnny>
woodthechuck, it matters whether your host distro has them and/or includes them in the initramfs
12:46
<Gadi>
woodthechuck: the question is does the distro you are using have them
12:46
<johnny>
Gadi, i was sayin it. .:)
12:46
<Gadi>
sorry - I have a bit of caffeine in me
12:46
:)
12:46
cant control my typing
12:47
<johnny>
/me puts glue on gadi's fingers
12:47
<woodthechuck>
Have not migrated to LTSP 5 still on LTSP 4.2
12:47
<johnny>
woodthechuck, ltsp uses the host distro for all such things now.. not like ltsp
12:47
ltsp4*
12:47
woodthechuck, so if it works by default in your distro .. like on a livecd.. you're good to go
12:47
likely anyways..
12:48
<woodthechuck>
Thanks Johnny
12:48
<Gadi>
kdegel: anyways, the compiz guys consider it an ati bug, and would rather see the bug fixed in their driver rather than turn off remote compiz completely
12:48woodthechuck has left #ltsp
12:49
<sbalneav_ep>
kdegel: Do you NEED to run X on the server?
12:49
<kdegel>
Gadi: I'm looking over the logs from last Friday when we worked on this ,and yes, you gave me a different compiz config, the compiz people had me create a xorg.conf file and add an option
12:49
<sbalneav_ep>
Why not just disable gdm altogether on the server? Run it as a text console.
12:49
<Gadi>
kdegel: and they are prolly right, seeing as the local X on the server cant swallow compiz either
12:50
<kdegel>
sbalneav_ep: actually the issue now is that the thin clients won't log in :(
12:50Brian_H has quit IRC
12:50
<sbalneav_ep>
But, they're not logging in BECAUSE of the X on the server, right?
12:50
<kdegel>
the server doesn't mess up like it used to, but the thin clients still can't log in :
12:50
<Gadi>
kdegel: that you can fix with the modified /usr/bin/compiz
12:50
like last time
12:51
see, there are two issues here
12:51
one is that the ati driver has a bug
12:51
<kdegel>
sbalneav_ep: I'm not sure, I didn't think that was the reason...but maybe it is?
12:51
<Gadi>
and it cannot handle indirect glx stuff
12:51
<kdegel>
Gadi: yeah I will try that agian, didn't think of it
12:51
<Gadi>
to the point where it explodds
12:51
*explodes
12:51
thats problem #1
12:52
and should be fixed by the ati driver people
12:52alkisg has joined #ltsp
12:53
<Gadi>
problem #2 is that it would be nice for there to be an inverse to SKIP_CHECKS=yes - like a "COMPIZ=No" env variable to force the compiz script to fall back on metacity
12:53
then, we could pass that env variable thru lts.conf to solve problems like yours
12:53
and they wouldnt have to turn compiz off for all remote connections
12:53
but, you would have a solution until ati fixes their driver
12:53
:)
12:55
they are relying on the checks that they do to fail to fallback on metacity, not realizing that with a buggy driver, their checks might cause X to die completely
12:55
their response, its a buggy driver problem
12:55
true enough, and it should be fixed
12:55
but in the real world, people need workarounds while they're waiting
12:55
:)
12:56
<rjune>
!g
12:56
<ltspbot>
rjune: Error: "g" is not a valid command.
12:56
<rjune>
WTF?
12:56
<sbalneav_ep>
ltspbot's down
12:56
<rjune>
ltspbot, you're an idiot
12:56
<ltspbot>
rjune: Error: "you're" is not a valid command.
12:56
<alkisg>
The bot was upgraded to Karmic :P
12:57
<rjune>
!learn g is for Gadi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
12:57
<ltspbot>
rjune: Error: "learn" is not a valid command.
12:57
<kdegel>
Gadi: thanks for your information
12:57
<rjune>
*sigh*
12:57
sbalneav_ep, howdy
12:57
<sbalneav_ep>
supybot's broken in karmic.
12:57
Along with printing
12:57
compiz
12:57
<rjune>
PRinting is broken in karmic?
12:57
WTF?
12:57
<sbalneav_ep>
log-off app
12:57
<rjune>
I thought they fixed a bunch of "papercuts"
12:58
<Gadi>
welcome to the party, rjune
12:58
<sbalneav_ep>
BUT IT BOOTS IN 10 SECONDS SO IT'S FREAKING AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
12:58
<rjune>
broken printing is more like an ax cut than a paper cut
12:58
<Gadi>
sbalneav_ep: 1,2,3 anger's not for me
12:58
:)
12:58
<rjune>
Gadi, what's up?
12:58
I understand you need a workaround
12:58
<sbalneav_ep>
I can leave, if my anger's a problem for you.
12:58
<rjune>
heh
12:58
<Gadi>
no, I love it
12:58* rjune grabs some fuel for sbalneav_ep's fire
12:59
<Gadi>
just looking out for ur health
12:59
<rjune>
sbalneav_ep, I just *love* how it boots so fast and how UNR looks so pretty
13:00* Gadi wants to help, but he doesnt really understand the issue
13:00
<sbalneav_ep>
I've already resigned myself to the fact that, like Roy Batty, I will burn brightly, but not for long.
13:00
Gadi: The printing issue?
13:01
<rjune>
sbalneav_ep, does it boil down to somebody didn't test something properly?
13:01
<Gadi>
yeah - the bug talked about handling some directive - but not what the mishandling presents itself as
13:01
<sbalneav_ep>
Well, here's what we need to do at our shop
13:01
we produce letters
13:01
LOTS of letters.
13:01
<rjune>
define LOTS?
13:01
10?
13:01
5?
13:02
<sbalneav_ep>
thousands
13:02
per day
13:02
<rjune>
and is it per second, per day, per month
13:02
<Gadi>
rjune: stop
13:02
;)
13:02
<johnny>
i don't like using ubuntu.. it feels like they break something major in every release, and it never gets fixed during the cycle..
13:02
<Gadi>
sbalneav_ep: ok
13:02
<sbalneav_ep>
So, we have HP multi-bin printers. One bin letterhead, one plain, and an envelope feeder.
13:03
<Gadi>
right
13:03
<johnny>
and supposed stability takes precendence over getting fixes in
13:03
<sbalneav_ep>
Fire up openoffice, go to the "firstpage" style, and tell it it prints on Tray 2
13:03
default style prints on Tray 3
13:04
Envelope is a com10 style, on the "Envelope feeder" tray
13:04
so, create a letter. First page, apply "Firstpage" style
13:04
Do a manual pagebeak to the "Default" style for next page.
13:05
Do a mpb for an "envelope" page.
13:05
So, when we print, we should get 3 sheets.
13:05
1 letterhead, one plain, and an envelope.
13:05
<Gadi>
right
13:06
<sbalneav_ep>
With my patches in https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cupsys/+bug/307471/
13:06
<Gadi>
so, instead, they all are coming out from the same tray?
13:06
<sbalneav_ep>
applied to cups in Hardy, this works as expected.
13:06
yup
13:06
all 3 on letterhead
13:06
first tray you change for the document, is what everything else comes out on.
13:07
Now, I submitted that bug upstream
13:07
so, either one of two things has happened.
13:07
<Gadi>
you might want to actually attach that description to the bug
13:07
ie the use case
13:07
steps to reproduce
13:08
<sbalneav_ep>
I'm working on the most bog-simple postscript test file that will trigger the bug
13:08
<Gadi>
does Tools->Options Print give any options?
13:08
<sbalneav_ep>
Yup
13:09
<Gadi>
anything useful?
13:09
<sbalneav_ep>
The issue's not with OpenOffice.
13:09
<Gadi>
ah
13:09
<sbalneav_ep>
OpenOffice, if you print to a PDF is inserting the correct %%IncludeFeature *InputSlot Tray2
13:09
directives.
13:09
<Gadi>
so, ur saying now cups does its postprocessing thru pdf
13:09
<sbalneav_ep>
The problem is, cups just ignore's em.
13:10
right.
13:10
<Gadi>
if you take that pdf and do a pdf2ps, same thing?
13:10
<sbalneav_ep>
so I don't even know if the PDF postprocessing HAS bin handling in it.
13:10
ok, I can try that...
13:14
yeah, if I export the oodoc to pdf, and try printing that through evince, that's a complete no-go
13:14
everything on plain
13:14
<Gadi>
then, ur theory stands
13:14
thats good
13:14
in a way
13:15
<kdegel>
Gadi:
13:15Brian_H has joined #ltsp
13:15
<kdegel>
sbalneav_ep:
13:15
I'm stupid
13:15
<Gadi>
dont say that - the channel's logged
13:15
;)
13:15
<sbalneav_ep>
Yesterday was the day I lost faith that Linux will ever be generally ready for a business environment.
13:15
<kdegel>
it is still doing everything from before, I forgot to do a ltsp-update-image
13:15
this is why we should have 7 hour work weeks :)
13:15
work days*
13:15
<sbalneav_ep>
I mean, I'll keep using it, if I can get this bug fixed.
13:16Brian_H has quit IRC
13:16
<kdegel>
blaahh... thanks for all your help, I have some debugging to do so I can post on this bug report
13:17
<Gadi>
kdegel: thanks for spending the time to post the bug
13:17
<sbalneav_ep>
Unix was founded by a guy who had to get a printer working. The GNU movement was founded because Stallman couldn't get a printer working.
13:17
<johnny>
sbalneav_ep, you're blaming linux for an ubuntu issue?
13:17
<sbalneav_ep>
After 40 years, we still haven't nailed printing.
13:17
<johnny>
altho.. remember.. apple is the one who owns cups :)
13:17
<sbalneav_ep>
It's probably an upstream cups issue.
13:17
<johnny>
blame apple :)
13:17
lol
13:18
<Gadi>
well, you had it nailed, just the nails came loose
13:18
:)
13:18
<sbalneav_ep>
however, I WILL blame ubuntu for me filing a bug report WITH A PATCH and it still hasn't been released.
13:18
<johnny>
yes..
13:18
<sbalneav_ep>
Nobody even looked at it 'till yesterday, until I went and complained to Jorge Castro.
13:19
<johnny>
there's something wrong in the process of getting fixes included
13:19
<kdegel>
sbalneav_ep: link to the bug?
13:19
<sbalneav_ep>
Printing worked FLAWLESSLY on WordPerfect 2.0 for DOS fer crying out loud.
13:19
<johnny>
perhaps just not enough guinea bugs too early in the game..
13:19
because not enough enterprise users want to be that guinea pig
13:19
<sbalneav_ep>
kdegel: scroll back, I just posted it 10 minutes ago
13:20
Well, I'm starting my guinea pig process for Lucid, since we track LTS.
13:20
<kdegel>
thanks, sorry :)
13:20
<sbalneav_ep>
And what's the first bug I run into? One I spent 2 months beating to death in June 2008
13:21
<rjune>
sbalneav_ep, are you feeling unappreciated?
13:21norbi905 has quit IRC
13:22
<sbalneav_ep>
I'm feeling I have 13 years, 11 months and a bit until I retire to my cottage, where I pray to God, Vishnu, Buddha, Xenu, and Zoroaster that I will never ever have to touch a computer again until they plant me.
13:23
Which, at the rate I'm going will be in 14years, 11 months and a bit.
13:24Brian_H has joined #ltsp
13:24
<sbalneav_ep>
But the doctor will fill me in on that Friday morning at my physical.
13:27
Well, now that I've completely killed all the conversation in the room..... :)
13:27
I'm such a downer.
13:28
<stgraber>
;)
13:28
<arx>
How do you apply the patch that is mentioned in this bug? : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ldm/+bug/457702
13:29
<sbalneav_ep>
arx: well, you'd need to do an apt-get source ldm
13:29
apply the patch
13:30
make sure you have the dev tools installed
13:30
build a pbuilder
13:30
and rebuild the package.
13:30
http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/rebuilding-ubuntu-debian-linux-binary-package/
13:30vagrantc has joined #ltsp
13:30
<sbalneav_ep>
should help
13:31
<arx>
ok cool! thanks. I'll take a look there :).
13:31six2one has joined #ltsp
13:31
<arx>
ok, so another question... why is it when I do an "echo $DISPLAY" on the client (in X) it shows localhost:11.0?
13:31
<johnny>
is that a problem?
13:32
<sbalneav_ep>
because X is tunneling through ssh.
13:32
<arx>
ya, because I have scripts setup that use rsh.
13:32
<johnny>
rsh.. that's deprecated..
13:32
<Gadi>
people still use rsh?
13:32
<arx>
I put DIRECTX = True in lts.conf...
13:32
<johnny>
switch to ssh..
13:33
<arx>
I tried it a long time ago... it has way too much overhead and ran into tons of little problems.
13:33
<Gadi>
arx: yeah, LDM_DIRECTX=True will make DISPLAY be the thin client IP
13:33
and since you aren't worried about security...
13:33
:)
13:34
<arx>
no, not worried ;)
13:34shawnp0wers has joined #ltsp
13:34
<johnny>
arx, you have LDM_DIRECTX right? not just DIRECTX ?
13:34
<arx>
doh!
13:35rjune has quit IRC
13:36
<squarepeg>
sbalneav_ep: you will ALways Rock in my book..
13:36
<sbalneav_ep>
squarepeg: Well thanks.
13:36
<arx>
johnny wins! thx again guys....
13:37rjune has joined #ltsp
13:38
<arx>
I'm quite bummed that I can't use ssh... but under the gun and want to get this server out the door. I'll try it again at some point; don't want to rewrite a bunch of scripts just yet. ;)
13:38six2one has quit IRC
13:38six2one has joined #ltsp
13:38
<squarepeg>
sbalneav_ep: you know that spamfilter thing we banged our heads on..Weel come to find out someone was shipping an email with a header like 1200 lines long..
13:38
always crashed on the same email
13:51Brian_H has quit IRC
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13:54Brian_H has joined #ltsp
14:01
<Brian_H>
after I install an application on the ltsp server do I need to rebuild the client in order for the thin terms to have access to it?
14:01AlecTBM has left #ltsp
14:02Peste_Bubonica has joined #LTSP
14:03
<Peste_Bubonica>
Hi all... im trying to setup a gentoo box as ltsp server, but when I try to boot a client, ive got this error afeter all modules loads: attempt to mount NFS root: mount: RPC: Unable to send; errno = Network is unreachable
14:03
<johnny>
fun..
14:03
<Peste_Bubonica>
seems that the network card is not up
14:03
:(
14:03
<johnny>
you have to manually fix that yourself sadly
14:03
until gentoo either fixes genkernel
14:04
or we use dracut
14:04
Peste_Bubonica, go into your chroot and edit /usr/share/genkernel/x86/modules_load
14:04
and put your network drives in there
14:04
<Peste_Bubonica>
ok... have many modules info there
14:04
<johnny>
and then genkernel initrd
14:04
but not your network card i bet :)
14:04
the network card part is the weakest link in the whole thing
14:05
they want me to give me a list of cards manually.. and that is dumb..
14:05
<Peste_Bubonica>
let me see... have a intel here... but not the mine...
14:05
e1000
14:05
<johnny>
yep.. thus the problem
14:06
i had a helper supposably.. but he disappeared..
14:06
<Peste_Bubonica>
I will need to recompile the kernel?
14:06
<johnny>
Peste_Bubonica, i developed the gentoo support, but i currently lack any real hardware
14:06
you don't need to
14:06
<Peste_Bubonica>
chrooting the enviroment?
14:06
<johnny>
just chroot in there
14:06
and genkernel initrd
14:06
or maybe genkernel ramdisk.. depending on your genkernel version
14:06
and then copy it over to your tftproot
14:06
<Peste_Bubonica>
understood... let me try!!! many many thanks johnny
14:07
<johnny>
ltsp folks.. did we ever get any farther with symlinking /boot in the chroot for the tftpboot directory? :)
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14:15
<Peste_Bubonica>
johnny, ive mad this change: # Hardware (Network)
14:15
MODULES_NET="e1000 tg3 e100" ... added e100
14:15
<alkisg>
man tftpd => "=-s ...The use of this option is recommended for security..." Somehow I don't see this happening :(
14:16
<johnny>
alkisg, or just pointing directly to the chroot /boot
14:16
<alkisg>
But if someone wants to serve 2 images? Or wants to put other things than ltsp in his tftp boot dir?
14:17
<johnny>
the 2nd is the real problem..
14:17
<alkisg>
dnsmasq *doesn't* chroot into the tftp dir by default, though... :)
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14:22
<Peste_Bubonica>
johnny, ive remaded the initramfs, but they dont load the e100 driver
14:22
only e1000, and the e100 module exists
14:23
<johnny>
did you copy that to your tftp boot driver?
14:24
tftp boot directory*
14:24
<Peste_Bubonica>
yes... the initramfs? sure
14:24
and it loads normally
14:25
<johnny>
it didn't load it on boot tho.. so i don't think you have it right..
14:25
<Peste_Bubonica>
/lib/modules/2.6.30-gentoo-r8/kernel/drivers/net/e100.ko
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14:26
<Peste_Bubonica>
ive used this command to rebuild initramfs: genkernel initramfs
14:28
<johnny>
sure.. but just cuz the moduel is there, doesn't mean it will be loaded
14:28
there is no autoloading support at all..
14:28
one ofthe problems with genkernel
14:29
that's why you have to edit that file
14:29
and my guess.. is that the file you're loading isn't the one that was built
14:29
<Peste_Bubonica>
but ive edited the modules_load
14:30
<johnny>
look for it in the initramfs
14:30
i'm assume you've booted to a busybox shell
14:30
look in there for to make sure it actually has what you expect
14:31
i forget what the file name is in the generated intramfs tho
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14:32
<Peste_Bubonica>
johnny, the file is /usr/share/genkernel/arch/x86/modules_load right? only to confirm
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14:33
<johnny>
i think so
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14:34
<johnny>
if your clients are x86 that is..
14:35
<Peste_Bubonica>
johnny, now... e100 has loaded
14:35
but... the problem persists :(
14:35
<johnny>
is your nfs server started?
14:36
and you mount it manually?
14:38
<Peste_Bubonica>
yes
14:38
perfect
14:39
<johnny>
that works? just not on boot?
14:39
<Peste_Bubonica>
johnny, they reports error on "booting initramfs" something about the /dev missing giles ( console and null )
14:39
all kernel loads sucefully
14:39
<johnny>
hmm... sounds like a problem in the initramfs..
14:39
<Peste_Bubonica>
many modules is checked and loaded, including e100
14:39
<johnny>
we need to switch to dracut asap..
14:40
the initramfs code should be creating /dev/console and /dev/null
14:40
you definitely need those
14:40
<Peste_Bubonica>
how can I check that?
14:40
im not an expert on initramfs :)
14:48
johnny, I need to use init=/linuxrc on the default pxelinux.cfg?
14:51
<johnny>
ah
14:51
no..
14:51
but you do need something like
14:52
nfs=ip:/path
14:52
and ip=dhcp
14:52
i forget the rest now..
14:52
uggh
14:52
oh root=/dev/nfs i think
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<Peste_Bubonica>
johnny, here is my append line: append initrd=initramfs root=/dev/nfs ip=dhcp nfsroot=172.16.0.13:/opt/ltsp/x86
14:56
<johnny>
i can't recall if you need a real_root or not
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14:59
<Peste_Bubonica>
letme try
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15:00
<Peste_Bubonica>
johnny, same error
15:00
:(
15:01
johnny, other users already have this problem no? i found a log of this channel, and a conversation between you and other users
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15:04
<Peste_Bubonica>
johnny, [11:20] [AmosSam] johnny: finaly it boot's! after I enable bootp protocol in kernel. but, how long it takes to pass part of init where it says "Setting up LTSP client"
15:07
johnny, my host is a 64bit machine... can I load a 32bit chroot?
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15:12
<Peste_Bubonica>
linux32 :)
15:16
<johnny>
Peste_Bubonica, i don't really have a gentoo box to do much about it tho
15:16
plus.. there was somebody who was goign to help, but disappeared
15:20
<Peste_Bubonica>
johnny, no problem... im now recompiling the kernel... but I cant use genkernel anymore... he does a mrproper on the sources :)
15:22
<johnny>
you can tell it not too
15:22
if you read the help
15:22
altho in the chroot you shouldn't have to
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15:29
<dro>
so can I ask a ubuntu question in here like jam did the other day? lol
15:30
network load balancing software for ubuntu, anything you guys might have had experience with before?
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15:35
<kdegel>
Gadi: I hope yo udon't mind, I pasted what you think is the 2 issues to the #radeon room
15:36
your explanation was far better than when I was trying :)
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15:46
<Gadi>
kdegel: np - I'll try to lay low and keep my head down
15:46
;)
15:49
<sbalneav_ep>
Man, it's getting pretty bad when #ltsp starts handling #ubuntu's questions :)
15:49
I mean, we're already patching their bugs BUT I'M NOT BITTER!
15:49
<adamk_>
I thought all channels handled #ubuntu's questions except for #ubuntu?
15:50
<sbalneav_ep>
I've been working all afternoon on the printing bug. I have a stack of dead trees beside me :)
15:52
<kdegel>
adamk_: hey there
15:52
thanks for helping out in explaining
15:53
<adamk_>
No problem.
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16:03
<Peste_Bubonica>
johnny, nothing... the error persist
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16:22
<Peste_Bubonica>
johnny, I dont know what to do anymore :(
16:23
<johnny>
neither do i
16:23
without being there
16:23
and able to play with a ltsp install
16:23
i just don't have time to truly help you atm
16:23
perhaps tomorrow
16:28
<sbalneav_ep>
heading home
16:28
be on later
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16:33
<Peste_Bubonica>
johnny, hey... many thanks anyway!
16:33
you helpme a lot
16:34
i will keep trying...
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17:11
<Peste_Bubonica>
johnny,
17:11
johnny, ive been build my own kernel and it works
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17:50
<dtrask>
hey...can anyone help with a quick question?
17:51
<sbalneav>
Don't ask to ask, just ask :)
17:52
<dtrask>
I want to be able to provide a link to install Sun-Java (sun-java6-plugin and sun-java6-bin) in the Open1to1 netbook image. I can't preinstall it, but would like to make a link on admin's desktop that the user can click and have it kick off in apt-get. I'd like to keep it as "GUIfied" as possible. Any ideas?
17:52
sbalneav: sorry ;-)
17:54
It can run in terminal, but I'd like to make the link automatically spawn the terminal and run it. I've been trying a couple things, but I need to get past the whole "Run in Terminal, Display, Run" piece. I want it to go in terminal by default
17:54
<sbalneav>
Just run your little script with gksu?
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17:56
<dtrask>
sbalneav: I tried that and it didn't seem to work....guess I'll try again.
17:56
<johnny>
maybe with packagekit..
17:56
not sure how that is
17:57
/me goes for a bit
17:57
<sbalneav>
you could do it with a small script
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18:09
<dtrask>
sbalneav: nm....got it....just create a .desktop file! :-)
18:09
sbalneav: using gksu as the beginning for the command
18:10
sbalneav: thx for at least heading me in the right direction :-)
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<sbalneav>
np
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20:45
<sbalneav>
Evening all
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23:34
<sbalneav>
ltspbot`: seen sbalneav
23:34
<ltspbot`>
sbalneav: sbalneav was last seen in #ltsp 2 hours, 49 minutes, and 1 second ago: <sbalneav> Evening all
23:34
<sbalneav>
!seen sbalneav
23:34
<ltspbot`>
sbalneav: sbalneav was last seen in #ltsp 11 seconds ago: <sbalneav> ltspbot`: seen sbalneav
23:34
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: sbalneav was last seen in #ltsp 11 seconds ago: <sbalneav> ltspbot`: seen sbalneav
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23:35
<sbalneav>
!S
23:35
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: Error: "S" is not a valid command.
23:35
<sbalneav>
!helpo
23:35
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: Error: "helpo" is not a valid command.
23:35
<sbalneav>
!status
23:35
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: I am connected to freenode as ltspbot.
23:36
<johnny>
he's back
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23:50
<sbalneav>
!status
23:50
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: I am connected to freenode as ltspbot.
23:50
<sbalneav>
!s
23:50
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
23:50
<sbalneav>
!karma
23:50
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: Highest karma: "jammcq" (8192), "sbalneav" (7), and "dtrask" (7). Lowest karma: "Ahmuck" (1), "moxie" (1), and "brendan" (1). You (sbalneav) are ranked 2 out of 12.
23:50
<sbalneav>
there
23:50
got the bot working agaiin
23:51
<vagrantc>
that's a great disparity of karma.
23:51
!karma
23:51
<ltspbot>
vagrantc: Highest karma: "jammcq" (8192), "sbalneav" (7), and "dtrask" (7). Lowest karma: "Ahmuck" (1), "moxie" (1), and "brendan" (1).
23:51
<vagrantc>
i'm not even ranked.
23:53
!iaminterestedinyourproductspleasetellmemoreaboutthelimitedtimeoffers
23:53
<ltspbot>
vagrantc: Error: "iaminterestedinyourproductspleasetellmemoreaboutthelimitedtimeoffers" is not a valid command.