IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 5 April 2008   (all times are UTC)

00:03
<johnny>
dberkholz, you around?
00:04
or as the locals say..
00:04
ping
00:06
<dberkholz>
johnny: sure
00:08chupa has quit IRC
00:08
<johnny>
so, did you see the see it?
00:09chupa has joined #ltsp
00:09
<johnny>
got my ping from around 11pm your time yesterday?
00:19
i'm still working on the init scripts.. mosty it's just copied from the debian/ubuntu one
00:21
vagrantc was talking about moving some of the functions in the ltsp-client-setup initscript to ltsp-init-common
00:21
so it wont' be duplicated for long
00:22
i should try pulling virtualbox from svn
00:23
that one actually lets you do ctrl + alt + f*
00:23
which is nicer for dealing with crashed X
00:23
<dberkholz>
johnny: what exactly would you like me to see?
00:24
<johnny>
did you look at the ebuilds? and at my bzr link i gave?
00:24
http://devel.localmomentum.net:8082/ltsp/ltsp_gentoo/changes
00:24
<dberkholz>
johnny: was my nick in front of them?
00:24
if not, i probably didn't
00:24
<johnny>
yes .. i said i pinged you :)
00:25
<dberkholz>
i just grepped my irc log for johnny.*dberkholz and i didn't see any links
00:25
<johnny>
oh.. it wasn't in the same line.. you needed more -C
00:26
oh.. i updated the global overlays file so you can layman -a ltsp
00:26
<dberkholz>
johnny: would it be more helpful for me to suggest changes to you, or just commit them?
00:27
and you could then look through my changes
00:28
<johnny>
i'd prefer if we could stay in the know for anything other than small bugfixes for the initial period of getting it working
00:28
<dberkholz>
johnny: that really didn't answer the question, since both things i suggested were ways of staying in the know
00:29
<johnny>
suggest then.
00:29
for nwo
00:29
for now
00:34
<dberkholz>
that quickstart client option seems really poorly named
00:36
<johnny>
i agree
00:36
that's why i renamed it..
00:36
<dberkholz>
johnny: i'm unable to look at the .qs file
00:36
<johnny>
i just noticed that too
00:36
seems to be a bug in loggerhead
00:36
mime type confusion probably
00:37
<dberkholz>
the two plugins look generally ok. curious about PACKAGES being the early-packages list, since i don't really know quickstart
00:38
<johnny>
the name should just be extra-packages
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00:38
<johnny>
but.. if i do that.. i can overload our own needed packages in the quickstart profile, since the variables are named the same internally
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00:39
<johnny>
i'm not happy with what i had to do with the env variables passed to quickstart
00:39
<dberkholz>
which part aren't you happy with?
00:40
<johnny>
it just looks ugly seeing all the variables shoehorned in like that
00:40
i think there is room for some of them to be actual parameters of quickstart
00:40
<dberkholz>
make it a multiline command with end-of-line \, looks nicer.
00:40
<johnny>
yeah.. i'm gonna do that..
00:41
<dberkholz>
not just "nicer," also more readable i think
00:41
<johnny>
i don't know bash array foo to emulate that myself
00:41
<dberkholz>
not worth doing
00:42
it gets weird fast when you start having even mildly strange variable settings
00:42
<johnny>
it'd be nice to just say .. pass all the variables prefixed with LTSP to quickstart or something
00:42
so the list doesn't have to be maintained
00:42
<dberkholz>
somtehing like ${!LTSP*}
00:43
<johnny>
but it needs to explose them out to name value pairs tho?
00:43
explode*
00:43
oh..
00:43
uh
00:43
nuh
00:43
<dberkholz>
it gets tricky
00:43
<johnny>
yeah.. ok
00:43
<dberkholz>
that part expands to the names, then you can do an indirect reference on the names to get the values
00:44
for key in ${!LTSP*}; do echo $KEY=${!KEY}
00:44
you get the idea
00:44
<johnny>
ok.. looks familiar
00:44
seems useful for entire ltsp ..
00:44
<dberkholz>
if you've got bash, not just sh
00:44
<johnny>
figured
00:44
<dberkholz>
ltsp-build-client does depend on bash
00:45
<johnny>
but quickstart wants to depend on sh only ..
00:45
<dberkholz>
this is how we're calling quickstart, not internal to it
00:46
<johnny>
yes
00:46
so.. now i'm back at the problem of getting the fs mounted ..
00:47
i have booted successfully into x btw
00:47
ldm freezes up tho
00:47
<dberkholz>
johnny: great news
00:48
<johnny>
see.. that's why i mentioned virtualbox earlier..
00:48
i could really use that ctrl + alt +f1 :)
00:48
trying to look at the log.. but it is difficult
00:48
oh.. duh.. i could start sshd!
00:49
this is with the default genkernel3.10_pre7 kernel config using gentoo-sources
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00:50
<johnny>
perhpas.. the problem is.. i'm not sure where i'm stuck at now
00:50
i know i'm stuck.. but i dont know why
00:53
vagrantc said something about using bind mounting tmpfs over ro nfs
00:53
but i'm not sure i have it setup completely right
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01:02
<johnny>
so.. if you end up finding the changes acceptable, i'd like to get stuff moved over to the launchpad space
01:02
bzr isn't too friendly on my own server , so i don't want it to stay there being used by ebuilds for long
01:05
<dberkholz>
johnny: the two plugins look reasonable, i can't see the .qs so it's hard to say
01:05
<johnny>
you could branch it?
01:05
<dberkholz>
how do i get at the code?
01:06
<johnny>
bzr pull bzr://devel.localmomentum.net/ltsp-gentoo
01:06
err
01:06
no.. branch :)
01:07
<dberkholz>
i did branch
01:07
the i386-ness seems weird, since $arch is used in there
01:09
<johnny>
i was going to ask you if we wanted to stick with that or not
01:09
see.. we have two different paradigms here..
01:09
debian needs to s/i386/x86/
01:09
and we need to s/amd64/x86_64/
01:09
or something..
01:09
otherwise there will always be an issue :)
01:09
<dberkholz>
use_linux32 somehow looks shady to me too, even though i don't know what it does
01:10
<johnny>
do you know the setarch command?
01:10
<dberkholz>
nope
01:11
i've had an amd64 for about 2 weeks now
01:11
<johnny>
if you run a command prefixed with setarch 686
01:11
uname -m will like to all askers called inside the program
01:11
err s/like/lie/
01:12
so.. your uname -m is x86_64
01:12
but inside it's i686
01:12
<dberkholz>
ok
01:12
my earlier point about i386 was more that i don't understand why it has to be an arch-specific quickstart file
01:12
<johnny>
linux32 is just shorthand for setarch 686
01:13
i was just passing down variables used by ltsp
01:13
it doesn't have to be
01:13
<dberkholz>
it seems like there's about 2 things in there that force it to be arch-specific
01:13
and they're the top 2 lines
01:14
<johnny>
linux32 needs to be conditional
01:14
oh.. btw.. linux32 also works in the case of pp64 vs ppc
01:15
<dberkholz>
if you're actually on a ppc64 multilib system =)
01:15
<johnny>
well whoever has it working.. somewhere in the world.. can use it.. with no effort on our part .. :)
01:16
ok.. so.. env variables
01:16
<cyberorg>
i am using linux32 by default if user tries to build on 64bit host
01:16
<johnny>
i'm kinda irritated about using environment variables in this way
01:17
cyberorg, warren does that too
01:17
they are essentially hidden parameters to our profile
01:17
<warren>
I allow them to specify x86_64 explicitly if htey want it
01:17
<johnny>
sure
01:18
dberkholz, we're defaulting x86 atm
01:18
and forcing ;)
01:18
dberkholz, see if you can convince agaffney to allow you to pass --arch as a parameter to quickstart :)
01:19
<dberkholz>
could make it listen to stuff like CHOST etc..
01:21
<johnny>
for?
01:21
compiling?
01:22
<dberkholz>
johnny: well, the idea being that if you're planning to cross-compile, you probably also want to cross-stage
01:22
<johnny>
uname -m is used outside of compiled stuff
01:24
<dberkholz>
oh good, you found /fastboot
01:24
<johnny>
i need to find out of it applies to openrc
01:24
i think we're going to need openrc
01:24
my current quickstart config doesn't reflect that
01:25
<dberkholz>
hm, doesn't look like it does have that.
01:25
<johnny>
i think can can do such a thing in the rc.conf file
01:26
i'm going to try to talk to cardoe about our boot process
01:26
see if he can help me do it the openrc way
01:26
<dberkholz>
i can probably help you out with that
01:26
<johnny>
if you're friendly with uberlord..
01:26
go to it
01:27
<dberkholz>
well, i don't think i need anyone's help
01:27
<johnny>
well.. sweet
01:27
<dberkholz>
i'm reasonably familiar with baselayout-2 and there weren't that many changes
01:27
(baselayout-2 before it became openrc)
01:27
<johnny>
i'm kinda wondering about that keyword stuff they put in there
01:27
it seems kinda wrong to me
01:28
to have to manually maintain that list
01:28
across files
01:28
<dberkholz>
right, you were mentioning that
01:32
<johnny>
why isn't there some sort of variable like init_pretend=blah blah blah
01:32
i'm sure somebody could come up with a better name
01:32
maybe i'm just missing the point?
01:34
<dberkholz>
johnny: i think there are arguments for the other side as well
01:35
<johnny>
i would like to know it
01:35
<dberkholz>
if you look at it from the perspective of the init scripts rather than the perspective of the use cases (vserver, etc)
01:35
the init scripts might like to have all the metadata relevant to them in one place
01:36
they already include dependencies in them, and this is similar to a dependency
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01:56
<johnny>
dberkholz, we still need to figure out the kernel, what are we going to do if we stick to genkernel3?
01:56
should we patch genkernel3 to do what we want?
01:56
and get it upstreamed?
01:57
or try to make genkernel4 do it ..
01:57
<dberkholz>
johnny: my mind is faulty -- what exactly isn't it doing at this point?
01:57
<johnny>
it currently will not run outside of the chroot
01:57
for 32bit clients with 64bit server that is
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01:58
<johnny>
you get the 32bit kernel, but then busybox won't run
01:59
we could compile it in the chroot, but i assume we plan on updating it outside of it
02:00
<dberkholz>
johnny: ok, so the 64/32 combo is the problem.
02:00
<johnny>
it also needs to be able to patch a kernel for unionfs, unless we use aufs
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02:01
<johnny>
we also need something for nbd in the future
02:02
but that's in the initramfs
02:02
we could just use initramfs-tools..
02:04
i'm just not quite sure HOW early we can jump into our rootfs and let openrc do the rest
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03:15
<johnny>
sleep time..
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04:23
<yanu>
someone knows how to remimber the choosen session with ldm, seems ldm always forget it and returns to the loginscreen
04:23
making a $HOME/.xsession doesn't help
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04:43
<yanu>
using LDM_REMOTECMD=/usr/bin/firefox-3.0 doesn't work
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05:37
<alexbodn>
hi friends
05:38
my bios won't boot from the network. can i set a bootable cd to continue the boot from the ltsp?
05:38
<laga>
alexbodn: etherboot has everything you need
05:39
<alexbodn>
laga: thanks, but they ask for too specific data on my nic. coul one cd support multiple nic types?
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05:49
<laga>
alexbodn: you can put the kernel + initrd on a bootable CD, but you'll have to hard code the address of your server then
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06:09
<alexbodn>
laga: isn' that findable by dhcp?
06:09
and tftp?
06:14
<laga>
alexbodn: only if your computer supports pxe
06:15
<alexbodn>
ok, so the bootin kernel can't hand the boot process to a ltsp kernel?
06:16
<laga>
what "bootin' kernel"?
06:17
<alexbodn>
s/bootin/currently booting localy/
06:20
<laga>
that might be possible.. but if you already got a working linux install on that computer, then you might be able to use that to connect to the LTSP server
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07:21
<alexbodn>
laga: sorry for the delay. my line went off.
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07:21
<alexbodn>
but that would be a regular xdmcp?
07:26
<laga>
i dont know
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09:33
<vagrantc>
warren, ogra_cmpc, cyberorg, johnny, dberkholz, gvy, jammcq: i'm planning on tagging a new ldm version within the next few hours, please coordinate with me if you plan to make commits today.
09:34
<jammcq_>
umm, prolly no commits from me today
09:34
<vagrantc>
jammcq_: heh. :)
09:34
jammcq_: i'm not even sure you have commit access ... but i figured i'd let you know since you were in here :)
09:35
<jammcq_>
heh
09:35
even if I had commit access, I wouldn't know what to do with it
09:35
<vagrantc>
that's why you need some monkeys or something
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09:36
<jammcq_>
vagrantc: you still in spain?
09:36
<vagrantc>
jammcq_: yeah.
09:36
<jammcq_>
when you heading home?
09:37
<vagrantc>
jammcq_: leaving spain all too soon ... this monday i think.
09:37
<jammcq_>
any consensus on the timing of the portland hackfest?
09:38
<vagrantc>
jammcq_: but i'll slowly make my way back west from nyc -> pdx
09:38
<jammcq_>
train?
09:38
<vagrantc>
jammcq_: i haven't heard any consensus. seems like dberkholz can't make it before oscon, but i think most other people are ok with before oscon...
09:38
jammcq_: would be really good to get that sorted out sooner than later, eh?
09:39
<jammcq_>
I think i'm ok before too
09:39
yeah, get it sorted out, so those who have to buy plane tickets can get that going
09:40
<vagrantc>
jammcq_: i'll be stopping in buffalo, toronto and wisconsin before really heading back to portland
09:40
<jammcq_>
wow, whirlwind trip
09:41
<yanu>
someone knows how to remimber the choosen session with ldm, seems ldm always forget it and returns to the loginscreen
09:41
making a $HOME/.xsession doesn't help
09:41
using LDM_REMOTECMD=/usr/bin/firefox-3.0 doesn't work
09:41
<vagrantc>
i'd be really surprised if $HOME/.xsession doesn't work on debian or ubuntu.
09:42
<yanu>
it doesn't or something sits in the way?
09:43
<vagrantc>
if you've messed with LDM_REMOTECMD, i guess $HOME/.xsession might break...
09:43
will likely ...
09:43
<yanu>
permissions are 755
09:43
before i used LDM_REMOTECMD, .xsession didn't work either
09:45
problem is in fact; if i do not choose a session from the list offered by ldm, i'll get a black screen with the X-cross, and after a while, ldm restarts
09:45
choosing ea. gnome-session i'll get gnome, but i just want firefox for that user
09:49
<vagrantc>
yanu: could you paste your ~/.xsession file to the pastebot?
09:49
!pastebot
09:49
<ltspbot>
vagrantc: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
09:50
<yanu>
have to type it, moment
09:51
<vagrantc>
make sure it's exactly the same, then.
09:54
<ltsppbot>
"yanu" pasted ".xession" (6 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/500
09:56
<vagrantc>
yanu: ok, try one of the x sessions that LDM uses. might be something wrong with the command you are trying to run.
09:56
yanu: like, put one of those sessions into .xsession
09:57
<yanu>
ok, moment
09:57
<vagrantc>
you may need to run some kind of a window manager just to get it to work.
09:57
yanu: ah!
09:57
yanu: xsetroot -solid "#239EC4" &
09:58
yanu: add the & ... otherwise it will wait till that finishes before starting firefox
09:58
yanu: if that doesn't help, then you'll have to use one of the sessions just to know that .xsession is respected
09:59
<yanu>
took /usr/bin/gnome-session, not working
10:01
if i choose a session out of the ldm list, it works fine
10:02
how can i add, the firefox-line, to the ldm-list?
10:02
<vagrantc>
yanu: which linux distribution and release?
10:02
<yanu>
gutsy
10:02* vagrantc assumes ubuntu
10:03
<yanu>
i upgraded that machine from edgy over fiesty to gutsy (ubuntu)
10:03
<vagrantc>
yanu: did you upgrade the chroot as well?
10:03
or re-install
10:03
<yanu>
ya, i made a new one
10:04
on mij debianserver (sid), my kids always have to choose a session also when logging in
10:05
i'll try a .xsession
10:08
hmm, on debian it works lik a charm
10:10
<vagrantc>
go debian! :)
10:11
<yanu>
indeed
10:11
strange although
10:15
debian works also on the same client (hardware ...)
10:17
other suggistions, logfiles to watch ???
10:21
vagrantc: :) that debian works very well, that means you do a very good job!! (just read the wiki)
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12:58
<johnny>
vagrantc_, hey
12:58
you about still?
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13:22
<vagrantc_>
johnny: yeah. adding one more translation to ldm, testing, and tagging and uploading it.
13:23
<johnny>
i need to have it working first, before i suggest changes :)
13:23
<vagrantc_>
heh
13:23
<johnny>
i just added netcat as a dep for my chroot
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13:24
<johnny>
so.. why is /var/lib/tftboot used instead of /opt/ltsp/tftp ?
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13:25
<vagrantc_>
because that is the default tftpboot directory on debian, ubuntu and soon to be fedora.
13:25
it is configurable.
13:25
<johnny>
i noticed the ltsp-update-image is a bit debian specific
13:25
i don't think warren is using it
13:25
<vagrantc_>
no, it's ubuntu-specific.
13:26
<johnny>
oh
13:26
<vagrantc_>
doesn't work very well on debian at all.
13:26
<johnny>
what do you use on debian?
13:26
<vagrantc_>
NFS
13:26
<johnny>
oh.. i thought you were doing nbd + ext2?
13:27
<vagrantc_>
yeah, i added a plugin to generate it, but it just creates an empty ext2 filesystem and then mounts it on /opt/ltsp/i386 and installs it like usual.
13:29
<johnny>
i'm having a bit of trouble getting the mounting worked out
13:30
<vagrantc_>
and default on debian is still NFS
13:30
<yanu>
and what is the best, nfs or nbd?
13:32* vagrantc_ doesn't believe in best
13:32
<johnny>
i modded the init scripts in the initscripts directory for my own usage, but i can't tell how i'm supposed to handle /var/run/drives, it doesn't seem to be listed in bind_mounts()
13:32
<vagrantc_>
they both have advantages and disadvantages, so it totally depends on what you want.
13:33
johnny: no need to handle it if /var/run is mounted read-write.
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13:36
<yanu>
ok, but it could be , that nbd is technicly better ...
13:36
got to go
13:36
<johnny>
vagrantc_, where is that supposed to happpen?
13:36* vagrantc_ will finish uploads before doing anything else.
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14:00
<vagrantc_>
grrrrr.
14:00* vagrantc_ forgot to modify po/LINGUAS when adding another language
14:08
<johnny>
i think i found a bug in ubuntu's default lts conf file
14:09
or in getltscfg itself
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14:09
<johnny>
aha.. you use your own
14:09
so you don't notice the bug
14:10
getltscfg will fail to parse an lts.conf file that is empty
14:10
as in.. empty with no [default]
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14:16
<johnny>
ogra_cmpc, you around?
14:17* johnny doubts it
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14:26
<t1>
hi everyone!!!!
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14:28
<t1>
i need the lts.conf file to work with 20 clients without hd and with 256m rma and local_apps enabled on ltsp5
14:29
my OS is kubuntu 7.10
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14:31
<t1>
any helpme
14:34
<johnny>
rephrase your question
14:35
<t1>
ok. my server is 3gb ram 120g hd with ltsp5 server. i have 20 clients but the clients are slow
14:35
<johnny>
aha :)
14:36
<t1>
my os is kubuntu 7.10. Do you understand portuguese?
14:36
<johnny>
the local apps stuff is not well developed
14:36
no i don't
14:36
<t1>
why clients are slow
14:36
<johnny>
there is going to be work on that soon
14:36
what kinda network card?
14:36
<t1>
the clients have 256mb ram
14:36
<johnny>
and have you ran top on your server to see what is happening?
14:36
<t1>
on board asus
14:37
<johnny>
you should check to see where your bottleneck is
14:37
<t1>
my cpu load is 83.333% in server
14:37
<johnny>
ram?
14:37
how much memory is being used
14:38
<t1>
1.139.518 kb
14:38
with 6 clients on
14:40
<johnny>
now imagine how that would be with 20..
14:41
<t1>
its the problem
14:42
i'm need the lts.conf file customized
14:44
<laga>
for what?
14:44
<johnny>
well look at file lts-parameters.txt in your client chroot
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14:44
<johnny>
but.. i don't think it'll do much good for your situation
14:44
local apps requires more than that atm
14:44
<t1>
ok tks
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16:17
<johnny>
vagrantc, i looked at your packaging branch, is there a reason you don't copy over ltsp_client for initramfs?
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16:39
<vagrantc>
johnny: other than that hook never once worked, no reason really. :)
16:40
johnny: we should probably remove it entirely.
16:40
<johnny>
ok
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16:41
<johnny>
there are a few cleanups that would be nice in the src tree i can see
16:41
like that ltsp sound file in the root
16:41
and perhaps moving the man files into doc/man
16:42
<vagrantc>
there are a million changes, but i will do them after i'm done uploading :)
16:42
<johnny>
how's that going?
16:43
<vagrantc>
keep making mistakes with the nb.po
16:43
well, some of the mistakes were the translators...
16:43
but we've given them very poor strings to work with
16:43
<johnny>
i found an initramfs-tools ebuild
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17:47
<vagrantc>
ldm tagged and pushing.
17:47
<johnny>
so what next? :)
17:48
<vagrantc>
well, in 3 hours i get on a 4 hour bus to madrid ... and then hopefully get some sleep.
17:48
<johnny>
and until then?
17:48
<jammcq>
vagrantc: how are you doing with the language?
17:49
<vagrantc>
jammcq: too many english and german speakers around to really make much progress. but it's still good to get a little bit of a refresher.
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17:49
<vagrantc>
well, i think i'm the only native english speaker in the group ...
17:49
but still, the lingua franca is english
17:50
<jammcq>
I'm heading to brazil on the 15th. gonna make a real attempt to pick up more of the language this time
17:50
<vagrantc>
"the language of the french is english"
17:50
jammcq: ah, portuguese sounds like spanish with a french accent to me.
17:50
<jammcq>
it's all greek to me
17:50
<cliebow>
heeheeh
17:51
<vagrantc>
heh. that reminds me... mediterranean food means nothing to countries bordering the mediterranean.
17:51
<jammcq>
heh
17:54
<vagrantc>
so now the ldm UI is translated into german, spanish, basque, (partial) french, hungarian, norwegian bokmal, and sweedish.
17:54
that's probably my biggest accomplishment, though most of the work was others... i just tested that it didn't obviously break anything.
17:55
<stgraber>
vagrantc: how partial is the french translation ?
17:56
<vagrantc>
stgraber: as long as they don't click on any buttons, it's fine. there's someone working on updating it...
17:57
http://lists.debian.org/debian-l10n-french/2008/04/msg00016.html
17:58
<stgraber>
ok
17:58
<vagrantc>
the debian french team tends to do a lot of peer review, but i'm guessing in the next week i'll be able to upload it
17:58
the whole is 40 strings, i think.
18:01
<stgraber>
good you have reactive french translators, in case you need fast translation (but probably not following all their policies though) just ping me :)
18:03
<vagrantc>
good to know :)
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