IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 16 July 2015   (all times are UTC)

00:00
<cstk421>
not currently no. there is no AD and all users right now have standalone machines with network drives mapped to the file server
00:01
as i understand it i need to create a file server for the "nfs" or some other format to host the home directories for the users
00:01
that is so they can customize their desktops i assume. they should not store any data there only on the file server
00:02
<maldridge>
ok, I'm confused, without AD, how are your users going to log into the windows image?
00:03
<cstk421>
as i understood it ltsp was to handle user auth
00:04
they log into LDM and it logs them in and auto run's the vbox windows vm
00:04
<maldridge>
so ltsp handles auth to get people into a *linux* session, what I'm wanting to know is once the VM boots, how are users logging into that
00:04
is it just a single shared account?
00:05
<cstk421>
good point i will probably setup autologin scripts per user for "their" instances
00:05
no its multiple users
00:05
everyone has their own acct
00:05
<maldridge>
so how do those users get provisioned onto the windows vm?
00:05
brb
00:05
<cstk421>
i will set that up manually the first time i assume
00:05
ok
00:10
<maldridge>
ok, so it sounds like you are trying to approximate citrix, is that correct?
00:11
<cstk421>
from my limited exp yes
00:11
<maldridge>
lemme phrase this differnetly, and you tell me if I've got it right
00:11
<cstk421>
i was told this would decrease network overhead significantly since my pxe clients are powerful
00:11
ok
00:13
<maldridge>
so the idea is that you want to effectivly have windows on your clients, but you want to manage windows from a single master image instead of installing it locally and using a windows domain. To that end you are pxebooting clients, and running windows locally in a VM on the clients which are authenticated through a central point, but then people also have a seperate but somehow linked windows account
00:13
right so far?
00:13
<cstk421>
sounds about right
00:14
<maldridge>
if you're able to tell me, what are you planning on running in the windows VM, because there may be an easier way to do this
00:14
and what is your network throughput
00:15
<cstk421>
office , browserbased crm, quickbooks, usual office work. this is a law firm environment.
00:15
the only other way was to use rdesktop to vm's running on my esxi server but i was told that will not working b/c of the network requriements so this is my alternative
00:15
100mb for clients server is gigabit
00:15
<maldridge>
is the backplane gigabit
00:16
looking at my whiteboard where I've written out this setup, this will be nigh impossible to maintain as currently designed just from the way that virtualbox manages snapshots
00:16
<cstk421>
3750V2-48PS checking the backplane now
00:16
<maldridge>
fast, plenty fast
00:16
<cstk421>
‚óŹ 32-Gbps, wire rate backplane
00:17
<maldridge>
far faster than you'll need here
00:17
<cstk421>
so the ltsp pxe rdesktop to windows vm's then ?
00:17
my original plan :)
00:17
<maldridge>
so this is my opinion, but if I had to build this out, I would load ltsp but use x2go back to a windows vDesktop cluster
00:17
I think you can use those features without needing a domain, but it will be complex
00:18
x2go will help on your network overhead, and as long as the server and clients reside on the same physical network, i.e. minimum speed is 100mbps, you should be fine
00:18
<cstk421>
they are on the same network no issue there
00:18
x2go is a terminal server isnt it ?
00:18
why ltsp then ?
00:18
<maldridge>
x2go has to have the client running somewhere
00:19
so you use ltsp to load a thin linux image on your clients, and use x2go to get back to what needs to be a very powerful windows server
00:19
<cstk421>
copy that
00:19
x2go uses rdp i assume ? or do i need to have a x2go app on the vm's as well ?
00:19
<maldridge>
I should point out that my method will choke for anything like a youtube video, but you could run a browser locally for that
00:20
you have an x2go server on the server
00:20
effectively this solution has no vm anywhere
00:20
<cstk421>
except for the windows vm's you mean right ?
00:20
<maldridge>
no, I'm almost certain that virtualbox snapshots won't work for this
00:21
<cstk421>
sorry i meant the vm's i will have will be on the esxi server i have
00:21
<maldridge>
you'd have a regular windows install with a lot of user accounts who's home folders you redirect to your existing nat
00:21
yes? I'm not sure where the exsi cluster comes into all this
00:21
<cstk421>
i wil have them pxe boot from ltsp then x2go will run on the pxe client and rdp to the windows vm on the esxi server ?
00:21
<maldridge>
oh, are you running a virtual datacenter?
00:21
<cstk421>
yes
00:21
i have a r710 virtualization server
00:22
<maldridge>
ok, that makes a lot more sense
00:22
<cstk421>
sorry
00:22
should have said that
00:22
<maldridge>
np
00:22
yeah, so you pxeboot up to the point that you can x2go or run local apps for things like web browsing, then your windows vm is running x2go as a monolithic terminal server
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00:23
<maldridge>
I have no idea how you'll do authentication with this, but you should be able to easily configure local policies on windows to use remote disks for volumes
00:23
<cstk421>
the second part of that is whats throwing me off. the windows VM which will have all the users's accts will be running this x2go server application. is that right ?
00:23
<maldridge>
user sessions can't live on NFS though, so you'd need to share your user homes on samba
00:24
yes
00:24
that is correct
00:24
<cstk421>
and they will be login to the ltsp LDM and then be presented with the x2go login and that should bring them up to their windows session ?
00:24
so they will have 2 logins unless i can do an autologin from LDM through to their windows acct ?
00:24
<maldridge>
yes, you could probably log them in directly and just use the x2go login, treating ltsp as a transparent platform
00:24
<cstk421>
ah
00:24
yes
00:24
good point
00:25
<maldridge>
I think x2go can actually log them into the windows session transparently, but I've never tried that
00:26
<cstk421>
as for the users's home directories why do they have to be on a remote locaiton ?
00:26
<maldridge>
I may have just hit a snag, I don't think x2go can natively run on windows
00:26
<cstk421>
lol
00:26
<maldridge>
I thought you wanted to put your users files on an existing nas?
00:26
<cstk421>
i was told i had to for the previous method
00:26
shouldnt apply here
00:27
b/c the vm is on the esxi server plenty of storage for those as well as network shares for company files
00:27
so the last issue we have is the x2go client
00:27
<maldridge>
x2go server actually
00:28
x2go client would run fine on linux, but now you have the issue of the terminal sessions on the windows VM, you could use Windows Terminal Services, but of course you need the right license for that
00:28
<cstk421>
how does the windows terminal server solve our issue ? does it replace x2go ?
00:29
<maldridge>
no, you use x2go as the client, but windows terminal server would handle the setup and teardown of virtual user sessions
00:29
<cstk421>
so windows TS would just replace the x2go server part of it
00:29
<maldridge>
yes
00:29
<cstk421>
meaning x2go client on the ltsp pxe client can connect to a windows session via windows terminal services
00:30
<maldridge>
yes, that is correct
00:30
<cstk421>
i think i understand that part
00:30
perfect
00:30
do i still have the streaming video issue ?
00:30
<maldridge>
streaming video over the network is expensive no matter how you do it, for streaming the desktop and the apps you mentioned, I don't think you'll have any issues
00:31
<cstk421>
got you. as for usb drives and audio and such i assume they work via this environment ?
00:31
<maldridge>
audio should work without any real issues, but I've never tried to do remote USB so I'm not sure how well that would work
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00:32
<cstk421>
kk. ill get started on this now. thanks again.
00:33
<maldridge>
good luck
00:34
<cstk421>
thank you sir
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06:26
<alkisg>
maldridge: x2go is for connecting <any os> to <linux server>, not to <windows server> like cstk421 wanted...
06:27
I really thin that the vbox solution is the best for him, and the next solution would be the w2008 server+xfreerdp one
06:27
*think
06:28
<maldridge>
alkisg: yeah, I realized the x2go thing a little far in
06:28
the problem is that vbox snapshots don't work like that
06:28
<alkisg>
maldridge: I've given a workshop 2 weeks ago about that solution
06:29
It's tested, not just a fantasy...
06:29
We had one pilot school working like that the whole year
06:29
And some others will follow this year
06:30
<maldridge>
well, if you have done it then I tip my hat to you, but my understanding of vbox is that it does not perform actual copy on write, and so you wind up with a system where you cannot alter the base image anymore
06:31
of course I will withhold comments on how he was clearly trying to run a windows domain without actually running a windows domain...
06:31
<alkisg>
The copy on write refers to individual sectors, and the .diff is written on a separate image than the base
06:31
It's possible to either discard or merge that .diff
06:32
Here we only allow the teacher to alter the base image, e.g. to install additional software on it, and at that time all the root OS .diff must of course be discarded so that the clients get the new software
06:32
<maldridge>
yeah, that's what I thought happened
06:32
<alkisg>
The users store their data in a vbox shared folder, which maps to /home/username/Documents on their Linux account
06:33
That's a feature for us, not a drawback
06:33
<maldridge>
as I understood, he wanted to let the users touch the windows snapshots and then keep them through base image changes, for things like "desktop background pictures"
06:33
yeah, its a great way of doing it, but I don't think that is what he was trying to accomplish
06:33
<alkisg>
Desktop background and other settings are in the user folder
06:34
The things he was quoting were from our discussion 3-4 days ago...
06:34
<maldridge>
which would reside on the image, unless he used profile redirection
06:34
<alkisg>
That's what he told me then, I don't know if he changed his requirements since then
06:35
<maldridge>
I speak only from my knowledge of windows domains that unless you write some policy, the user's session information is written to a number of places in the home folder, which cannot be copied/moved without windows being aware that you're doing that
06:35
<alkisg>
The user profile can either be in a vbox shared folder, without redirection, or it can be mapped to a different disk, e.g. D:\User, with 1 registry edit
06:35
<maldridge>
eh, ideally you'd use the local policy editor so that it is done cleanly
06:36
<alkisg>
You can also use the roaming profile option if you like, again with the vbox shared folder
06:36
The registry profile redirection works in all windows versions, while the local policy editors one in some of them
06:36
s/one/only/
06:37
<maldridge>
s/all windows versions/all versions prior to windows 10/
06:37
<alkisg>
Is there an UI to change the user home folder in windows home edition?
06:38
Why do you say "prior to windows 10"? Windows no longer uses the profile path from the registry?
06:39
<maldridge>
granted its still in an RC stage, but when I tried 10 on a few non-domain hosts, tons of registry stuff broke, lots of stuff in the user profile portion
06:39
<alkisg>
I think we're not speaking of the same method
06:40
<maldridge>
I did not spend time troubleshooting that issue, but I suspect that a base key has been renamed
06:40
<alkisg>
When you redirect the windows /home path in the registry, from C:\Users to D:\Users, all new users are created there
06:40
<maldridge>
no, we are not
06:40
I'm talking about fully moving all windows user session data
06:40
<alkisg>
So if you create a new user named "user", it goes in D:\Users\User
06:40
<maldridge>
yes, but with your method, some information about that user will still reside on the C: drive
06:40
<alkisg>
While C:\Users\Olduser and C:\Users\All Users remain in place
06:40
No, none at all
06:41
Completely all the account data is in D:
06:41
That method works from windows nt and up
06:41
Note that I'm usually talking about stuff that I've tested, not from my head
06:42
When I'm assuming things, I usually say that out loud, that "I think..."
06:42
maldridge: use google translate on that: http://alkisg.mysch.gr/steki/index.php?topic=4090.0
06:43
<maldridge>
I do not dispute that that works as you have stated it, but I question if it works correctly in a managed domain
06:43
<alkisg>
The VM solution is not related to domains
06:43
You can't have the same SID for many computers/users in the same domain
06:43
In this solution you only have 1 VM and 1 user for any number of real computers and users
06:44
<maldridge>
as much as I would like to continue this most interesting discussion, I must return to repairing a CUPS server that refuses to enable a doc-center; 'later
06:45
<alkisg>
bb
06:45* alkisg started completing his taxes :)
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07:31
<highvoltage>
hehe @ "started completing"
07:33
<alkisg>
...hehe, well actually it's the 4th day with those@#()*&#(* tax forms :)
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07:43
<highvoltage>
In 2009 my tax consultant dissappeared with all my paperwork, took me 6 years to sort out those taxes :(
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07:52
<alkisg>
Ouch :-/
08:01
<vmlintu>
Luckily the tax office prefills all the papers, so there's nothing to do..
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16:08
<alkisg>
!ServerAlias
16:08
<ltsp`>
Error: "ServerAlias" is not a valid command.
16:08
<alkisg>
!serveralias
16:08
<ltsp`>
Error: "serveralias" is not a valid command.
16:08
<alkisg>
!cups
16:08
<ltsp`>
cups: With thin clients running on a Ubuntu 12.04 server, you may run into CUPS limiting the amount of simultaneous connections from one host. Since all connections originate from the same host (the server), you'll have to raise MaxClients and MaxClientsPerHost. See: http://www.cups.org/documentation.php/ref-cupsd-conf.html
16:08
<alkisg>
!cups-
16:08
<ltsp`>
I do not know about 'cups-', but I do know about these similar topics: 'cups'
16:09
<elias_a>
alkisg: How much does a fibre optic internet cost in Greece?
16:09
<alkisg>
No idea!
16:10
We do have those in some schools, but I never had to bother with the budget there...
16:10
<elias_a>
alkisg: I have this idea of founding a sort of place where you could go abroad to a nice place to do our work at.
16:11
Greece would be a nice place to go to work in spring or autumn....
16:11* alkisg loves remotely :)
16:11
<alkisg>
Why not summer? Too many tourists?
16:11
<elias_a>
Yep, and too warm for scandinavians :)
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16:12
<elias_a>
And I have this thought of using local services and facilities _after_ the turist season (or before).
16:12
<alkisg>
Haha, yup you could go swimming in Spring here..
16:12
<elias_a>
That's the best deal for all parties.
16:13
alkisg: I just sailed a small sailing boat from Sweden to Finland. Guess what the water temperature was?
16:13
<alkisg>
If you want the opposite, someone living in Greece and working remotely, ping me :D
16:13
The temperature in Sweden?
16:14
Or in Greece?
16:14
<elias_a>
alkisg: Seawater in Baltic sea between Sweden and Finland.
16:15
<alkisg>
No idea, here it would be around 20° ?
16:15
<elias_a>
alkisg: Would you like to be in a group that loosely plans this kind of working farm?
16:15
alkisg: 16 Celsius. :D
16:15
alkisg: It has been a cool summer. :)
16:15
<alkisg>
Cool, I imagined it would be lower there
16:16
<elias_a>
alkisg: No storms. The surface is warm. If gets cooled when storms mix the surface.
16:16
<alkisg>
I don't know how I could help from here, but sure, if there's something I can do, ping me
16:17
<elias_a>
alkisg: Ok. Thanks.
16:19
alkisg: Given the events lately I also have a strong need to do something to help you guys out even a little. A bunch of talkative, outgoing nerds (are there such animals) would probably do no harm. ;-)
16:20* alkisg is quite good in coding but not so much in organizing teams and activities
16:22
<alkisg>
!forget cups
16:22
<ltsp`>
The operation succeeded.
16:22
<elias_a>
alkisg: I'll do the organizing. Don't worry! :)
16:23
<alkisg>
!learn cups as `Recent cups versions have issues with the hostname, either set "ServerAlias server" in <server>/etc/cups/cupsd.conf, or "CUPS_SERVER=server-hostname" in lts.conf and "server-hostname <server-ip>" in /etc/hosts.ltsp`
16:23
<ltsp`>
The operation succeeded.
16:23
<alkisg>
!cups
16:23
<ltsp`>
cups: Recent cups versions have issues with the hostname, either set "ServerAlias server" in <server>/etc/cups/cupsd.conf, or "CUPS_SERVER=server-hostname" in lts.conf and "server-hostname <server-ip>" in /etc/hosts.ltsp
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22:32
<Emmanuel>
Hi
22:32
question
22:34
I have 14.04 edubuntu out of the box (ltsp) But I have a problem loading tftp in pxe thin terminals "PXE-E32: TFTP open timeout"
22:36
i tried the live ltsp from the livecd and it works,
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