IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 29 October 2012   (all times are UTC)

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00:02
<cliebow>
winds picking up in Seawall!
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08:47
<ltspuser_33>
hi
08:47
<alkisg>
Hello
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09:01
<Hyperbyte>
Hiiiiiiiiiiiiii
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09:44
<ltspuser_14>
Hi
09:45
How can I use local apps?
09:45
I need to have all the apps on thin client chroot?
09:47
<alkisg>
Not all of them, just the ones you want
09:47
<ltspuser_14>
ok
09:47
so when I put in lts.conf local apps true
09:48
He only runs the ones that are installed in the chroot??
09:48
or He tries to run all the apps??
09:48
where I specify the apps?
09:48
and how?
09:49
<alkisg>
!lts.conf
09:49
<ltsp>
lts.conf: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
09:49
<alkisg>
Check the man page, the variables about local apps
09:49
LOCAL_APPS_MENU etc
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09:55
<ltspuser_14>
ok
09:56
but can you tell me only which flags I must use to enable LOCAL APSS?
09:57
<alkisg>
LOCAL_APPS and LOCAL_APPS_MENU.
09:57
<ltspuser_14>
only this two??
09:57
<alkisg>
Yes
09:57
<ltspuser_14>
I have never configured with local apps...
09:58
ok
09:58
thank you very much
09:59
LOCAL_APPSLOCAL_APPS_MENU
09:59
LOCAL_APPS= True LOCAL_APPS_MENU= True
09:59
right?
10:00
<alkisg>
Right, but basicallyl LOCAL_APPS is already true so you don't need that
10:00
Just LOCAL_APPS_MENU=True
10:02
<ltspuser_14>
ok
10:02
thanks
10:02
<alkisg>
You're welcome
10:02
<ltspuser_14>
and every app that is installed on chroot runs on client
10:03
right??
10:03
<alkisg>
Every app that has a .desktop file (shows up in the menus)
10:03
<ltspuser_14>
I just need to install the apps I want on chroot and enable that flag...
10:03
yes
10:03
I know that
10:04
but how the system knows that should run that particular app in client side?
10:12
I need to change the .desktop file?
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10:43
<ltspuser_14>
I have tried to install scribus on filesystem
10:43
on chroot
10:43
but I have this app on ubuntu...
10:44
and when I use this app, if I go to terminal and check what is running I didn't saw the scribus process
10:45
anyone knows how this Local Apps works?
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11:23
<alkisg>
stgraber: LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT crashes some nouveau-based clients when they open firefox, any advice? Should we just drop X51-opengl?
11:23
(server has nouveau as well, both mx4000 or something, no proprietary drivers in use)
11:24
<stgraber>
fun... no, we shouldn't remove that as it's making a huge performance difference for hardware supporting it
11:24
you may want to do a dmi/pci check for the broken ones and make sure there's a kernel/X bug as it really shouldn't crash to start with
11:25
<alkisg>
stgraber: dmi/pci check? How?
11:25
<stgraber>
get the pciid of the card on the client and check for it in X51-opengl if it's confirmed to always affect that card
11:25
<alkisg>
OK
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11:34
<ltspuser_14>
anyone?
11:34
about Local_Apps?
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13:09
<alkisg>
!LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT
13:09
<ltsp>
Error: "LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT" is not a valid command.
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13:57
<sbalneav>
Good morning all!
13:57
<alkisg>
Hi Scotty! What's up?
13:58
<sbalneav>
Chillin' like a villain.
13:59
-2 C here
13:59
Might even snow today.
14:00
<alkisg>
Wow, 15° C here... rainy, but warm enough
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14:11
<ltspuser_82>
Hello there
14:12
Joan from Spain, I need some help
14:16
<sbalneav>
!ask
14:16
<ltsp>
ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
14:17
<ltspuser_82>
OK sorry
14:17
<sbalneav>
So, what's the problem?
14:18
<ltspuser_82>
We've got this PC (512 Ram, integrated S3 ), wiht PXE boot, loading a LTSP image (ubuntu 12.04)...
14:18
lts.conf tells the box to connect via rdesktop to a Terminal Server
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14:20
<ltspuser_82>
It connects without problem, everyting seems ok, but if I try to work in Control Panel, o browsing My Computer... it freezes, the whole box
14:21
<sbalneav>
The LTSP terminal freezes? Or the Windows Terminal Server?
14:21
<ltspuser_82>
I can't even move to SCREEN02 where I've got a SHELL
14:21
The LTSP terminal
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14:22
<sbalneav>
it's probably going to be a bug in the S3 video driver.
14:22
Have you tried throwing in a different video card, and disabling the S3?
14:23
<ltspuser_82>
Good one, I'll try now... Thanks, sbalneav. Couple of minutes and I let you know
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14:46
<ltspuser_82>
Hi sbalneav! Tried with an ATI card and after 10 minutes working everything seems OK, no freezed box. Thank you very much
14:46
<alkisg>
ltspuser_82: did you install the s3 graphics driver?
14:47
It's not preinstalled in ubuntu 12.04
14:49
<ltspuser_82>
ohhh, I see. Well, after installing a second video adapter, and disabling the intagrated S3 vga, the box works fine, no hungs, no freezed so far. But I'll try to install S3 drivers and check if it resolves the problem
14:49
Than you alkisg
14:50
<alkisg>
xserver-xorg-video-s3
14:50
In the chroot, + update image
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14:50
<ltspuser_82>
Great, thank you very much
14:54
after chroot, shall I run "apt-get install xserver-xorg-video-s3"?
14:54
<sbalneav>
ltspuser_82: Good to hear. A general rule of thumb is, if you've got any box with an S3 in it, and it's having a problem, it's the S3 that's the problem :)
14:56
<ltspuser_82>
Yeah, so It seemed
14:56
<alkisg>
ltspuser_82: yes, sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get install xserver-xorg-video-s3; sudo ltsp-update-image
14:56* alkisg has S3 in a few labs, after installing the driver no big problems
14:57
<alkisg>
Of course it does have some glitches, e.g. if the monitor/xvideo width is not a multiple of 2, it gets tearing
14:57
But no crashes fortunately
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15:19
<ltspuser_50>
Hi
15:20
how can I put my ldm session with my cdrom drive?
15:20
<alkisg>
You mean to use a cd rom drive to boot instead of booting from the network?
15:25
<ltspuser_50>
no...
15:26
having access to my cdrom drive like I have access to an usb device
15:26
in a LDM session
15:27
<alkisg>
Gnome session? You just insert the CD.
15:29
<ltspuser_50>
yes...
15:29
but I put a blank cd to burn and it didn't worked....
15:29
<alkisg>
Right, cd burning doesn't work
15:29
You need a cd burner app installed as a "localapp" for this to work
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15:30
<ltspuser_50>
oh ok
15:30
thank you
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15:33
<alkisg>
sbalneav: do you think cdpinger isn't needed anymore? http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=5063CC8C.5050301%40gmail.com&forum_name=ltsp-developer
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16:10
<sbalneav>
alkisg: Yeah, probably not. cdpinger was written when there were only udev events for when the cdrom was there, not for disk insertion and removal.
16:10
If udev's providing that, we can probably ditch it.
16:10
<alkisg>
Cool, I hope someone that knows a bit more than me about writing udev rules might have some free time to do that...
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17:21
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so, trying to resolve the bashisms in server/ltsp-config and client/share/ltsp/ltsp-cleanup
17:23
alkisg: i think this might work... sort of: http://paste.debian.net/204728/
17:23
although that doesn't really mimic the behavior of "read -p" when there's no input.
17:25
<alkisg>
back
17:26
vagrantc: why is "read -p" bad? Not posix?
17:26
It's there in dash...
17:26
<vagrantc>
yeah, asking in debian-devel about that one
17:26
<alkisg>
vagrantc: also, I think I had incompatibilities somewhere with echo -n, maybe printf would be better?
17:27
<vagrantc>
works fine in both dash and bash, as far as i can tell
17:27
<alkisg>
Maybe it was -e then
17:27
And I don't remember well
17:27
<vagrantc>
the "echo -e" behaves wildly different in dash and bash
17:28
<alkisg>
That was it, then
17:28
<vagrantc>
dash effectively always has bash's -e enabled
17:28
and so outputs -e
17:29
<alkisg>
printf seems to respect the \n that I put there for multiline ranges for dnsmasq, so it sounds fine
17:30
Wow there's even a bug report to remove read -p from dash!
17:30
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=510354
17:31
<vagrantc>
heh
17:35
alkisg: so, reading debian policy, we're required to only use the listed features, or explicitly use a shell that has the features we want.
17:36
<alkisg>
Posix is fine, I wouldn't want #!/bin/dash there everywhere
17:37
<vagrantc>
don't know how to implement "read -p" in posix, without dozens of lines of code.
17:37* alkisg is running ldmgtkgreet within his normal gnome session... fun, it's drawing the logo+entry in one window, and the preferences+time in another
17:37
<vagrantc>
yup.
17:37
<alkisg>
vagrantc: what's wrong with the one you did?
17:37
<vagrantc>
alkisg: it still outputs the prompt in non-interactive sessions
17:39
and for the 'echo -e' -> printf ... i'm not positive if printf "$foo\n" or printf "%s\n" "$foo" is the right thing to do
17:40
or if either are equally valid
17:40
<alkisg>
vagrantc: printf "%b\n" "$foo"
17:41
(in this particular case where we want the \n control code interpreted)
17:42
About read -p... should we make a function somewhere in ltsp-common? Does it really matter that echo -n always outputs to stdout even if noninteractive?
17:42
<vagrantc>
and of course i get links to all sorts of specs in debian-devel, and a word from a member of the release team saying not to bother fixing it, essentially.
17:43
alkisg: i think it's strange to ask a question without waiting for the answer...
17:43
alkisg: would be confusing in logs of an automated run...
17:46
alkisg: so i think the 'echo -e' probably slipped by actually as a dash-ism. i.e. we coded it to work with dash, but would break with bash.
17:46
<alkisg>
OK, let's replace that one with printf everywhere
17:47
That was the advice they once gave me in #bash as well
17:47
Or, actually, it was "don't ever use echo, use printf instead" :D
17:47
<vagrantc>
yes.
17:48
<alkisg>
$ grep 'read -p' /usr/bin/select-editor
17:48
read -p "`gettext 'Choose'` 1-$i [$simple]: " -r selected
17:48
<vagrantc>
the only other place we use echo -e is in ltsp-build-client, which relies on other bash features so is explicitly #!/bin/bash
17:49
well, only other place inn ltsp-trunk
17:49
seems like ldm and ltspfs are clean, too.
17:51
er, wait, no... it really is a bashism ... how'd that slip by
17:52
<alkisg>
vagrantc: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1315833/
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17:55
<vagrantc>
alkisg: ok. :)
17:56
even works with posh...
17:57
could land that in the common-functions...
17:57
read_prompt?
17:57
<alkisg>
Sounds nice
17:57
Sure
17:59
<vagrantc>
presuming test -t is consistant...
18:04
alkisg: http://paste.debian.net/204738/ ?
18:08
<alkisg>
vagrantc: no, no reply should be needed there
18:08
"$@" are the parameters to read
18:09
Although a problem is that those shouldn't be local variables...
18:10
Maybe we should just write 2 lines every time we need read -p:
18:10
test -t 0 && echo -n prompt
18:10
read params
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18:36
<vagrantc>
alkisg: doesn't seem to work for me the way you're suggesting
18:37
<alkisg>
vagrantc: with the 2 lines?
18:37
<vagrantc>
er, nevermind.
18:37
i don't understand how it works...
18:38
read with a single quoted argument shouldn't set any variables.
18:39
<alkisg>
$ set var1 var2
18:39
$ read "$@"
18:39
value1 value2
18:39
$ echo "$var1"
18:39
value1
18:39
The "$@" gets processed before it's passed to read
18:39
So it's actually: read var1 var2
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18:48
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so then, this should do it? http://paste.debian.net/204746/
18:49
<alkisg>
vagrantc: the problem with that is that the variable names shouldn't be local
18:49
I.e.
18:49
somefunction() {
18:49
local a b
18:49
read_prompt a b
18:49
==> a and b won't be changed by read_prompt, because they're local
18:50
<vagrantc>
we're not making them local variables... ?
18:50
<alkisg>
OK, but we need to remember that
18:50
<vagrantc>
oh, if you're calling read_prompt from some other function
18:50
<alkisg>
Right
18:50
So we either stick to the global "REPLY" variable that you introduced, or we write 2 lines every time we need read -p
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18:51
<alkisg>
test -t 0 && echo -n prompt; read a b
18:51
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i kind of like the latter approach
18:51* alkisg too
18:52
<vagrantc>
given that, in all of LTSP so far, we've only come across this once...
18:52
<alkisg>
Hey, local variables worked... let me test more...
18:54
vagrantc: so, using a function is fine in dash, bash, posh
18:54
<vagrantc>
the local worry isn't real?
18:54
<alkisg>
No problem with local variables, read_p can access them normally
18:55
<vagrantc>
ok, so now what's better? :)
18:55
i don't forsee a lot of this code coming up...
18:57* alkisg votes for the function
18:57
<alkisg>
Even if it's not to be used much
18:58
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so my last paste should work?
18:58
<alkisg>
vagrantc: yup
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19:15
<vagrantc>
stgraber: what's with the hardcoding pandaboard configuration in ltsp-update-kernels??
19:16
er, update-kernels
19:18
the only hardcoding is really in the mkimage -a and -e arguments, no?
19:20
seems like you need uboot-mkimage, not flash-kernels.
19:23
or rather u-boot-tools
19:23
and does the pandaboard use pxelinux.0 ? is that arch-independent?
19:37
since a lot of our code is hidden in snippets, checkbashisms doesn't catch some things...
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20:32
<alkisg>
Wow I didn't know that LDM supports displaying a combo box with a fixed user list, instead of the username entry box
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20:39
<knipwim>
vagrantc: concerning r2396, did you mean to say $foo?
20:46
<alkisg>
Actually "%b\n" "$replace"
20:48
So, the shift of the LDM logo + entry box a bit to the top is caused by the hiding of the autologin timer entry
20:48
I haven't yet found out why it's moved to the left after pressing enter...
20:49
And it's very strange that this is only happening on the first run of LDM, on the next runs it's not shifted to the left...
20:49
I wonder where some state for that can be stored, since xorg is reset after each time LDM is closed
20:50
<vagrantc>
knipwim: no, i didn't! :)
20:51
<alkisg>
vagrantc: remember not to use "%s" there
20:51
Use "%b" instead
20:51
<vagrantc>
why not?
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20:52
<alkisg>
printf "%s" "two\nlines"
20:52
printf "%b" "two\nlines"
20:52
<vagrantc>
it's almost like i don't know what i'm doing
20:53* vagrantc pouts
20:53
<alkisg>
%b translates escaped characters to their actual meaning
20:53* alkisg hangs vagrantc :)
20:53
<alkisg>
Or hugs...
20:53
errr :D
20:53* alkisg opens the dict
20:53
<vagrantc>
pretty significant difference...
20:54
<alkisg>
Yeah definately the second one :D
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20:57* vagrantc wonders if i should use %b for 2398 too
20:59
<alkisg>
./client/share/ltsp/screen.d/xdmcp: error_delay "xserver failed, press <enter> to continue "
20:59
./client/share/ltsp/screen.d/startx: error_delay "xserver failed, press <enter> to continue "
20:59
==> doesn't matter... I'd use %b for consistence
20:59
consistency, damn I completely forgot my english today
21:01
echo -e wasn't even used there, it could be dropped
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21:11
<vagrantc>
just switch to "echo"?
21:11
<alkisg>
Sounds fine
21:11
echo -n
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21:12
<alkisg>
vagrantc: err #2
21:12
    echo -n -e "\n\rERROR: $1"
21:12
The -e is there for \n\r, not for $1
21:12
My bad
21:12
<vagrantc>
yeah, printf is needed...
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21:13
<alkisg>
So either leave it as is, or just put %b for consistency, printf "\n\rERROR: %b" "$1"
21:13
<vagrantc>
notably, printf %s isn't even in the manpage
21:13
<alkisg>
and all C format specifications ending with one of diouxXfeEgGcs
21:13
The last one
21:14
<vagrantc>
ah
21:14
so is %b then not all that portable?
21:15
<alkisg>
%b ARGUMENT as a string with `\' escapes interpreted, except that octal escapes are of the form \0 or \0NNN
21:15
Since it's in the man page, I assume it's portable
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21:15
<vagrantc>
most of the documentation recommends using %s ... so i wonder why
21:16
<alkisg>
Maybe they have no need for escaped strings as a parameter, they put it in the fixed string instead
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21:17
<alkisg>
We could also put the parameter inside the format string: printf "$parameter"
21:17
But then we'd need to be careful when using format specifiers, %s etc in the parameter
21:17
So I vote for %b
21:18
Anyway, 'night all...
21:18
<vagrantc>
thanks, as always!
21:18* alkisg thanks vagrantc for fixing the bashisms :)
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21:19
<vagrantc>
doh!
21:19
%b is apparently also a problem.
21:20
according to checkbashisms
21:24
or it's not consistant...
21:24
<||cw>
and dash has no equiv?
21:25
isn't one way around a bash specific feature to use /bin/bash instead of /bin/sh ? or is that "not allowed"?
21:25
<vagrantc>
it's not really technically bash vs. dash ... it's compatiible implementations of printf
21:25
it's allowed, just better to find a more portable way if possible
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21:44
<huizache>
hello
21:45
I understand the workstation should connect to the thinclient throught ethernet. what kind of ethernet card should the workstation have?
21:51
<muppis>
Workstation is the thinclient. PXE capable eth is nice, but iPXE gives a working wworkaround.
21:53
<vagrantc>
there aren't many network cards these days that don't support PXE, are there?
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21:54
<muppis>
Not really. All onboard's do support it at least.
21:54
<vagrantc>
at least, for x86
21:56
huizache: you want gigabit on the server at least...
21:56
dunn what you mean by workstation and thin client ...
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22:23
<huizache>
ok, sorry, was mistaken workstation for server
22:23
so i need a gigabit for the server
22:23
but how do so many clients connect to the server?
22:36
ok
22:36
got it
22:36
i need a switch
22:36
thank you
22:49
<gvy>
there are cheaper switches that have one or two gigabit ports and the rest are 100Mbps
22:49
in case every penny is 2012
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23:06
<stgraber>
vagrantc: I'd have to recheck later (at UDS), can't remember for the dependency, we indeed need mkimage to generate the image and flash-kernel would be the way of getting something generic to work on all boards. pxelinux.0 isn't used, only the pxelinux.cfg/* files are retrieved by the u-boot netboot code
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23:28
<vagrantc>
stgraber: cool.
23:28
stgraber: i was thinking of putting the hard-coded stuff into update-kernels.conf
23:29
in debian (and i think recent versions of ubuntu), mkimage is part of u-boot-tools
23:30
would probably be good to put a depends or recommends on u-boot-tools
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