IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 1 April 2008   (all times are UTC)

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00:16
<johnny>
dberkholz, how formal did you want to make this process? should i just commit all these ebuilds to the overlay as both ~amd64 ~x86 ?
00:17
<dberkholz>
johnny: keyword as whatever arch you tested
00:17
nothing more, please
00:17
<johnny>
ok.. formal it is then
00:19
got two with ~x86, and one with ~amd64 and one with both :)
00:22
so.. category for ltsp-client and ltsp-server ?
00:24
<dberkholz>
johnny: easiest way is net-misc just like ltsp is now
00:27
<johnny>
sure, but is that really correct?
00:28
<dberkholz>
johnny: it's reasonable
00:29
you can spend a long time arguing about this kind of thing when there's no perfect solution, or you can get on to things that actually matter
00:30
<johnny>
no need to argue
00:31
just wondering
00:31
<dberkholz>
arguing, discussing, thinking, whatever you like
00:31
point is it's not worth it =)
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01:23
<daduke>
vagrantc: cheerio! back from Spain?
01:24
<vagrantc>
daduke: well, actually that whole spain thing was a ploy for my trip to antarctica
01:24
<daduke>
*shudder*
01:25
<vagrantc>
hace frio
01:27
<daduke>
vagrantc: .. but in medias res: I upgraded ldm yesterday, and according to the changelog directx should be back? Doesn't seem to make a difference tho...
01:27
<dberkholz>
muy frio...ay
01:27
<vagrantc>
daduke: well, i tested it, it worked.
01:27
daduke: so what's the issue?
01:28
<dberkholz>
or was it mucho for weather? been a few years...
01:28
<vagrantc>
ah!
01:28
<daduke>
vagrantc: it just doesn't seem to faster for = true than for = false. It's *working*, I'm just not sure it's *direct*
01:28
<vagrantc>
daduke: there was something i added to the wiki that you needed to do to get LDM_DIRECTX working on some versions of ltsp
01:29
daduke: /root wasn't writeable before the version in sid
01:29
<daduke>
vagrantc: but I do see the new 'creating xauth..
01:29
<vagrantc>
daduke: hmmmm...
01:29
<daduke>
vagrantc: all right, let me see...
01:31
vagrantc: echo 'copy_dirs="$copy_dirs /root"' >>/opt/ltsp/i386/etc/default/ltsp-client-setup is what you're talking about?
01:31
<vagrantc>
daduke: if the DISPLAY is set to IPADDRESS:N ... i don't see how it couldn't be working.
01:33
daduke: yes
01:33
daduke: otherwise it should fail to login and just kick you back to a login screen
01:33
<daduke>
vagrantc: I've had /root in copy_dirs for quite some time now (since we first tried using the .Xauth file). It's just that before, youtube videos (I know..) were usable, now they're not.
01:35* vagrantc wonders how instable this internet connection is
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01:43
<Pascal_1>
bonjour !
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01:47
<daduke>
Pascal_1: salut!
01:47
<Pascal_1>
hello daduke !
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02:41
<daduke>
vagrantc: now we know ;)
02:42
<vagrantc>
daduke: what do you know?
02:42
<daduke>
vagrantc: how instable this internet connection is....
02:42
<vagrantc>
ah, yes.
02:43
<daduke>
vagrantc: I'm just trying to find out if there's any difference in ps -afx between directx true and false...
02:46
vagrantc: all right, directx=true has an additional DISPLAY=IP:7. I wonder why it isn't any faster...
02:47
<vagrantc>
i remember gadi complaining that it wasn't really working.
02:47* daduke is not alone!
02:48
<vagrantc>
i can't really think of how to test it, though...
02:48
unless the xauth stuff actually introduces some slowness that wasn't present with "-ac"
02:48
<daduke>
vagrantc: I don't know much about xauth, but this would be *strange*
02:49
<vagrantc>
daduke: ah, you could try with the same binary, remove the /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/rc.d/*xauth* hook, and add "-ac" to the X server in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ltsp/screen.d/ldm
02:49
daduke: that would basically be identical to the old behavior
02:50
daduke: if that's still not faster, maybe you have some other slownesses ...
02:50
<daduke>
vagrantc: I'll try, please stand by...
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02:50
<vagrantc>
daduke: have you compared two terminals side-by-side, one with directx and one without?
02:51
<daduke>
vagrantc: I haven't, it's just that videos used to be smooth, and now they're not
02:52
<vagrantc>
oh yay! someone made a localization patch for ldm ... maybe it at least somewhat works :)
02:52
er, i18n/l10n
02:53
<daduke>
vagrantc: I don't have /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ltsp/screen.d/ldm
02:53
vagrantc: create it?
02:53
<vagrantc>
daduke: copy it from /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ltsp/screen.d/
02:55
<daduke>
vagrantc: right. now where to put -ac? line 90?
02:56
<vagrantc>
ldm vt${TTY} ${DISP} $X_ARGS
02:56
<daduke>
vagrantc: that's 90 ;)
02:56
<vagrantc>
i'd stick it right after $X_ARGS
02:57
daduke: well, can't know which version you're using and if the line numbers match up
02:57
<daduke>
vagrantc: sorry, you're right. just rebooting now
02:57* ogra_cmpc decided to go with xdmcp in hardy instead ... ldm will just be a link to the xdmcp script
02:58
<ogra_cmpc>
i just packaged lbus to make localdev work
02:58
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: not a bad idea
02:58
ogra_cmpc: i'm thinking we should really make XFS support rock solid, too.
02:58
<ogra_cmpc>
indeed
02:58
thats my next step
03:00
and switch away from ip based to dns, with a zone file for every client
03:01
<daduke>
vagrantc: it's -ac now, but it's not faster either... strange. nothing else changed in our setup.
03:01
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: that could really allow the flexibility we've always wanted.
03:02
<ogra_cmpc>
right
03:02
finally
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03:02
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: i know we're pretty much abandoning ldm, but did you see that i18n/l10n patch for it?
03:02
*almost* makes me reconsider.
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03:03
<ogra_cmpc>
vagrantc, i didint read all my mail yet, i guess thats in pkg-ltsp-devel ?
03:03
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: yeah. with more de.po strings, too
03:04
<ogra_cmpc>
hmm, i wonder why the second underscore is needed in all these strings
03:05
i always thought one before the quotes is enough ....
03:06
msgid "Error: wait() call failed"
03:06
urgh
03:07
<vagrantc>
oh well.
03:07
<ogra_cmpc>
thyat surely needs a better msg :)
03:07
<vagrantc>
heh
03:07
<ogra_cmpc>
+msgid "Fatal error, missing mandatory information"
03:07
that one too
03:07
<vagrantc>
well the patch applies cleanly at least :)
03:07
no idea if it builds or works
03:09
<ogra_cmpc>
you likely need a buiklddep on gettext etc
03:10
but thats impressing ...
03:10
i wonder if one of us would ever have made it that far
03:11
<vagrantc>
wolfgang has been helping out lessdisks and ltsp for quite some time now.
03:11
<ogra_cmpc>
do you know where he is located ?
03:12
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: no
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03:12
<ogra_cmpc>
i'd paty him a beer at linuxtag in berlin
03:12
*pay
03:12
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: well, i'm sure a kindly email suggesting as much would be well recieved :)
03:14
<ogra_cmpc>
yeah
03:14
i shall do so
03:21
<vagrantc>
well, it builds with the patch...
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03:22
<ogra_cmpc>
generate a de locale, add LANG=de_DE.UTF-8 to the call in the screen script and see ?
03:23
<vagrantc>
well, have to figure out what additional files to include in the .deb first ...
03:23
i see de.gmo and fr.dmo ...
03:23
er, fr.gmo
03:23
<ogra_cmpc>
oh, right you dont have the buildd magic we have in ubuntu
03:24
<vagrantc>
well, our packaging doesn't actually use Make to install anything
03:24
<ogra_cmpc>
right
03:24
<vagrantc>
which we should probably re-think a little
03:24
<ogra_cmpc>
our buildd strips out all translations that are shipped in the source
03:24
<vagrantc>
nice
03:24
<ogra_cmpc>
and adds the to the language packs
03:24
*them
03:25
which then get built separately
03:25
(which is not what i want for ltsp)
03:25
<vagrantc>
so every package upload with i18n could potentially require a rebuild of the language packs?
03:25
<ogra_cmpc>
language packs are huge ... i just want the ldm translation installed
03:26
if the .po files changed, yes
03:26
our langpack mechanism allows langpacks to be updated separately as well though
03:26
so if there are new translations in a stable re;lease we can get them in al the time
03:27
<vagrantc>
that's cool
03:27
<ogra_cmpc>
(langpacks are the only packages that get updated constantly, separated from the release cycle)
03:27
yeah
03:27
that was marks most important target from the beginning
03:28
we eqarned a lot of money already through doig paid translation work for customers ;)
03:28
its part of our business model
03:28
(ubuntu is the only distro i know providing xhosa translations :) )
03:29
<vagrantc>
hrm.... well i can't quite figure out what needs to be installed where...
03:29
<ogra_cmpc>
or other strange african languages you never heard of
03:29
<vagrantc>
*.gmo == *.mo ?
03:29
<ogra_cmpc>
hmm, not sure
03:29
look at other packages ?
03:30
<vagrantc>
i might have to work on this another day ...
03:30
but i'm so excited to get it fixed :)
03:31
<cyberorg>
.gmo are discarded, mo are installed
03:32
<vagrantc>
there are no .mo files generated
03:32
<cyberorg>
they are generated when we compile
03:33
<vagrantc>
well, they weren't when i did
03:33
this has been the problem with getting i18n support working ... not knowing enough of what's supposed to go where...
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03:35
<daduke>
vagrantc: I saw something in the ldm changelog about arbitrary xserver... can I use this to add Option "DPMS" in order to achieve ldm screen blanking?
03:35
<ogra_cmpc>
do you have gettext in the build deps ?
03:35
<vagrantc>
daduke: if there is an X commandline option to do so, yes.
03:35
<ogra_cmpc>
daduke, that should rather go into configure-x.sh
03:35
<vagrantc>
X -help
03:36
<daduke>
vagrantc: it's in the Monitor section of xorg.conf
03:36
<cyberorg>
http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/guide/project/howto is a good guide
03:36
<ogra_cmpc>
vagrantc, you will override user settings with the commandline ... if a user has a custom xorg.conf thats not nice
03:36
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: indeed.
03:37
ogra_cmpc: i wrote the default code to take that into consideration
03:37
<ogra_cmpc>
ah, k
03:37
i should look at the upstream code one day
03:37
:P
03:38
<daduke>
vagrantc: right now we're trying to use a /etc/rc2.d/S99powersave to blank ldm screens, but it's not working... xset +dpms and stuff
03:38* ogra_cmpc shakes his head
03:38
<ogra_cmpc>
warren stole one of my best co workers ... matthew garret starts at redhat it seems
03:38
sigh
03:38
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: i've got gettext and gettext-base installed ...
03:39
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, you need these changes in configure.ac http://gitweb.compiz-fusion.org/?p=fusion/plugins-main;a=commitdiff;h=40adf8b45cc754959f1feeb93e9df870868b073a;hp=6e5e034d629e4b6c1e64387864221b286f87d705
03:39
<vagrantc>
i guess i can easily tell if the patch breaks anything... as that'll need to be fixed anyways...
03:39
<ogra_cmpc>
+#ifdef ENABLE_NLS
03:39
you need to make it set ENABLE_NLS somehow in configure
03:40
else it will ignore it ... look at the code :)
03:40
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: the patch i'm working with is: http://bugs.debian.org/473674
03:41
cyberorg: specifically: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?msg=5;filename=ldm.diff;att=1;bug=473674
03:41
cyberorg: applies cleanly to ldm-trunk
03:41
<ogra_cmpc>
vagrantc, i guess you can set that variuable in rules somehow
03:42* ogra_cmpc sends some extra hate in direction of the autofoo inventors
03:42
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, you don't need ALL_LINGUAS="de fr", they should be listed in po/LINGUAS file
03:43
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: i guess, at the moment, i'm more interested in getting it working than every little detail
03:43
<cyberorg>
this has more proper changes that are required http://gitweb.compiz-fusion.org/?p=fusion/compizconfig/ccsm;a=commitdiff;h=b8d8fdc1a05fe7ed7b5e5db2195d4c74126ad81c;hp=be9abe1061afead316bb8240907104ee8d482146
03:43
<ogra_cmpc>
vagrantc, the variable above is the key ...
03:43
without it the code wont even take translations into account
03:44
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: are these patches you keep posting for ldm, or some other project?
03:44
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, they are for other project, but the idea is same
03:44
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: i'm too clueless to be able to understand how to apply it
03:44
<cyberorg>
Makefile.am, autogen.sh, configure.ac needs the same changes
03:45
may be i can have a look
03:45
prepare a patch for ldm
03:45
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: the patch changes all of those things, and i'm not prepared to compare it against similar changes in an unrelated project.
03:45
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, ok, i'll check and comment
03:45
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: you looked at the bug report?
03:46
<cyberorg>
yes, saw the patch
03:46
<vagrantc>
ok. just wanted to make sure we were working with the same thing :)
03:46
<ogra_cmpc>
vagrantc, erm
03:47
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: ?
03:47
<ogra_cmpc>
if you look close enough you will see that he just modified the exiustsing language stuff in the po/ dir
03:47
just regenerate as you always did
03:47
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, give me few minutes, apply patch and check it out properly
03:47* vagrantc never did
03:47
<ogra_cmpc>
it should vcreate the new translations
03:47
vagrantc, in ltsp you do
03:48
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: this is ldm
03:48
<ogra_cmpc>
the way to get the translations is the same here
03:48
<vagrantc>
no it's not.
03:48
make -C po all
03:48
make: Entering directory `/home/vagrant/tmp/20080401/ldm-trunk/po'
03:48
make: Nothing to be done for `all'.
03:48
<ogra_cmpc>
hmm, it should be, there is a po/ dir and a Makrefile.in.in
03:48
<vagrantc>
no .mo files are generated.
03:48
<ogra_cmpc>
*Makefile
03:49
<vagrantc>
but .gmo files *are* generated, whatever those are.
03:49
<ogra_cmpc>
do you hqave a makefile ?
03:49
<vagrantc>
yes.
03:49
<ogra_cmpc>
generated from the in.in
03:49
<vagrantc>
so, i don't know how to set the *NLS* variable you were talking about
03:50
<ogra_cmpc>
export it from debian/rules for a start ?
03:50
just set it to 1 or true
03:51
<vagrantc>
with configure somehow, or ... ?
03:51
<ogra_cmpc>
export ENABLE_NLS=1
03:52
put that into rules at the top
03:52
and see what happens
03:52
(there is surely a more proper way, but for testing that should suffice)
03:53
without it set the code wont take gettext into account at all
03:54
you can also just rip out the ifdef
03:54
<vagrantc>
oooh. tasty.
03:54
<ogra_cmpc>
for testing ...
03:54
<vagrantc>
right
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04:16* gvy is back (gone 85:13:42)
04:16
<gvy>
lol, missed vagrantc by ten minutes :D
04:16
ogra_cmpc, cyberorg, halo
04:17
<ogra_cmpc>
he'll be beack
04:17
i guess he went for breakfast
04:17
or early lunch
04:17
<gvy>
good idea btw (back from city/ltsp customer)
04:24
<cyberorg>
http://cyberorg.kicks-ass.org/ltsp/ldm-trunk.i18n/ with minor modifications
04:24
here is the build log, i18n works http://pastebin.ca/965893 it creates fr.po and de.po
04:24
hi gvy
04:28
installing de.gmo as /var/tmp/ldm2-0.1_080308-build/usr/share/locale/de/LC_MESSAGES/ldm.mo so gmo == mo
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04:58
<muh2000_>
h
04:58
hi
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05:38
<muh2000>
i am having trouble getting xorg stated with a amd-geode machine
05:42
<ogra_cmpc>
muh2000, the amd driver is broken upstream since a while
05:42
there is active fixing going on, but thats not finished ywt
05:42
*yet
05:43
<muh2000>
ogra_cmpc: so no way to start X ?
05:43
<daduke>
ogra_cmpc: we're using geodes here with the amd driver, we added it manually
05:43
<muh2000>
daduke: how to add? :D
05:45
<ogra_cmpc>
yeah,m there is a ppa with a fix
05:46
<Q-FUNK>
muh2000: define trouble
05:46
<muh2000>
Q-FUNK: x does not work
05:47
<Q-FUNK>
muh2000: does not start?
05:47
<muh2000>
Q-FUNK: i think it tries to start but fails
05:47
<Q-FUNK>
muh2000: on what hardware? using which distro and what release?
05:47
<muh2000>
geode lx debian lenny ltsp 5
05:47
<Q-FUNK>
lenny is broken
05:47
<daduke>
muh2000: you can try https://www.phys.ethz.ch/~daduke/amd_drv.so, X driver binaries are pretty distro (and even platform) independant...
05:48
<Q-FUNK>
which hardware exactly? what brand and model of thin client? what bios?
05:48
<daduke>
muh2000: goes to /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/amd_drv.so
05:49
<muh2000>
daduke: k
05:49
<Q-FUNK>
daduke: he is on debian. he'd need a brand new X core to be compiled for Lenny, but debian refuses to merge the 3 patches against x86emu.
05:49
<muh2000>
Q-FUNK: http://www.pcengines.ch/alix3c3.htm that thing
05:50
<daduke>
Q-FUNK: I'm on etch and use the alix1c.
05:50
<Q-FUNK>
muh2000: I suggest tracking xserver-xorg-core and the amd driver from unstable
05:50
daduke: etch works, because that has an X core using the old vm86 backend
05:51
<muh2000>
bios is the newest
05:51
<Q-FUNK>
muh2000: bios brand ?
05:51
<daduke>
Q-FUNK: which prevents my driver from loading?
05:52
<ogra_cmpc>
Q-FUNK, refused for lenny or at all ?
05:52
<Q-FUNK>
ok, award bios. that should work, but you'd still need a recent enough version of the driver. what's in debian/testing is outdated, thoguh
05:52
<ogra_cmpc>
(intrepid will pull sid's x)
05:53
<muh2000>
lol @ outdated debian testing ^^
05:53
<Q-FUNK>
ogra_cmpc: debian insists that they will not merge bartman's patches until upstream does. right now, they only merged one of the 3 patches and it's not the most critical one
05:53
<ogra_cmpc>
bah
05:53
i'll keep an eye on that for intrepid
05:54
<Q-FUNK>
muh2000: it's not that. recent X introduce bugs that made debian decide to keep new X in unstable
05:54
<muh2000>
so using unstable could work?
05:54
<ogra_cmpc>
fun ... debian still has half a year until release ... what a silly decision
05:55
s/release/proposeed release :) /
05:55
*proposed
05:55
<Q-FUNK>
muh2000: it should
05:56
ogra_cmpc: not so silly if you consider that X core 1.3 is the last good one, for many people, and that multiple head is completely borken on some chipsets, since xinerama was removed and replaced with the improve randr.
05:56
<ogra_cmpc>
it works in hardy (mostly) with the switch to xrandr for everything
05:57
hardy even has a neat and functional gui to set that up
05:57
<Q-FUNK>
http://release.debian.org/migration/testing.pl?package=xserver-xorg-video-amd
05:57
ogra_cmpc: what is the name of thta gui package, btw?
05:57
<ogra_cmpc>
good question
05:57* ogra_cmpc looks
05:58
<Q-FUNK>
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?which=pkg&data=xserver-xorg-core&sev-inc=critical&sev-inc=grave&sev-inc=serious
05:58
<ogra_cmpc>
seems it replaces gnome-display-properties here
05:59
and comes with gnome-cc
05:59
<Q-FUNK>
package gnome-cc ?
05:59
<ogra_cmpc>
gnome-control-center
05:59
<Q-FUNK>
ah!
06:00
<ogra_cmpc>
* debian/patches/101_cc-add-randr12-capplet.patch,
06:00
debian/patches/102_cc-randr12-makefile.patch:
06:00
- Add a capplet for configuring multiple monitors using xrandr 1.2
06:00
added Fri, 29 Feb 2008
06:01
<Q-FUNK>
here, I seem to have gnome-displauy properties
06:01
<ogra_cmpc>
but likely the old one
06:02
the new one still has a bug that doesnt let you test the config ... if you get the timeout counter in yours, thats the old one
06:02
(desktop team is just merging that in)
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06:02
<muh2000>
X.Org X Server 1.4.0.90
06:04
<Q-FUNK>
ogra_cmpc: yes, this seems to be a new one. howeve,r it freezes during reconfiguration of the external display
06:04
<ogra_cmpc>
bug !
06:04
file it :)
06:05
<muh2000>
hmmm x still does not start :/
06:05
<Q-FUNK>
muh2000: X from unstable and -amd from unstable?
06:06
<muh2000>
xserver-xorg-video-amd
06:06* ogra_cmpc just fiddles around with dhcpd and power management so dhcpd comes up properly again after suspend of an ltsp server
06:06
<muh2000>
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian sid main
06:06
<Q-FUNK>
ogra_cmpc: also, this seems to insist on making my external monitor the main screen, while I'd prefer it to be an extra display
06:06
<ogra_cmpc>
you should be able to switch them
06:06
<Q-FUNK>
dpkg -l xserver-xorg-core xserver-xorg-video-amd
06:06
<ogra_cmpc>
i dont have an external output anywhere to test that at all
06:07
<muh2000>
ii xserver-xorg-core 2:1.4.1~git20080131-2 Xorg X server - core server
06:07
ii xserver-xorg-video-amd 2.7.7.7-1 X.org server -- AMD Geode GX/LX display driver
06:08
<Q-FUNK>
muh2000: please file a bug at debian using "reportbug" to help us track what is causing this. mention your alix board and put the URL to the specifications you showed us above
06:08
<muh2000>
that is in my lts.conf XSERVER = amd
06:09
ok
06:09
<ogra_cmpc>
you shouldnt use lts.conf first place with ltsp5
06:09
only if it doesnt work (well, indeed it doesnt, but you always should try first without lts.conf before fiddling)
06:10
(and drop it inbetween if you changed package)
06:10
*packages
06:11
<muh2000>
ogra_cmpc: without lts.conf i have only a black display
06:11
<ogra_cmpc>
ok ...
06:11
just a hint ... :)
06:11
<muh2000>
well i can see the boot stuff but when it tries to switch to x => black screen. monitor is on though
06:11
<Q-FUNK>
muh2000: I'm not sure if vagrantc merged the autodetection part for amd
06:11
öö.. ogra_cmpc
06:12
<ogra_cmpc>
most of the breakage i supported in the last three years was caused by using lts.conf whetre it shouldnt be used
06:12
<Q-FUNK>
muh2000: but anyhow, please file a bug and include the logs that reportbug wants to include
06:12
ogra_cmpc: that too
06:12
<ogra_cmpc>
so dropping it for a test is always my first suggestion :)
06:12
<Q-FUNK>
yup
06:12
<vagrantc>
Q-FUNK: i'm not aware of any patches for autodetection for amd ...
06:13
<ogra_cmpc>
autodetection is done by X --configure
06:13
or -configure i forgot how many dashes
06:13
<Q-FUNK>
ogra_cmpc: lenny has old X. no configure yet
06:13
<ogra_cmpc>
oh
06:13
well
06:14
then you probably should have xdebconfigurator installed
06:14
<vagrantc>
lenny's X is probably better without xdebconfigurator
06:15
<ogra_cmpc>
how do you generate the config without support from X for that ?
06:15
<muh2000>
vesa:no matching dev found....
06:16
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: uh, X -configure has been in the X server since XFree86 days.
06:16
<gvy>
=> need to find matching developer eh? ;-)
06:16
vagrantc, ! :)
06:16
<Q-FUNK>
vagrantc: uh, no it wasn't try on etch
06:16
<ogra_cmpc>
vagrantc, sure ?
06:16
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: it even works reasonably well on etch
06:16
absolutely.
06:16score has joined #ltsp
06:16
<ogra_cmpc>
hmm
06:16
<Q-FUNK>
hmm
06:16
<muh2000>
hmmm i guess i switch to etch ^^
06:16
<vagrantc>
i'm not saying it's always worked well
06:16
<ogra_cmpc>
i tought that came only with 1.3
06:17
<Q-FUNK>
me too
06:17
<vagrantc>
so with any given piece of hardware, it may not be good enough at autodetection, but it's definitely been present in XFree86 4+
06:17
<Q-FUNK>
not before
06:17
<daduke>
muh2000: if you can... geode on etch is no problem at all
06:17
<Q-FUNK>
yes, etch is really stable
06:17* vagrantc wonders if we're talking about the same thing
06:17
<muh2000>
daduke: server would be lenny and ltsp etch hmm
06:17
<Q-FUNK>
you can build from the gutsy source package for etch
06:18
the only real solution would be to convince jcristau to finally merge bartman's other partches for x86emu
06:18
<ogra_cmpc>
which are in ubuntu and very likely in the upcoming fedora
06:18
<daduke>
muh2000: I think ltsp-build-client can handle that..
06:19
<Q-FUNK>
yup
06:19
warren made sure to merge them
06:19
<ogra_cmpc>
its just crack to hold them back
06:19
<Q-FUNK>
or at least he asked his team to look into it
06:20
<muh2000>
is there a way to select etch with ltsp-build-client ?
06:20
<vagrantc>
muh2000: if you do use etch ltsp chroot with a lenny server, be sure to use the backports: http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto
06:21
muh2000: you'll need the --dist etch option
06:22plamengr has joined #ltsp
06:22
<muh2000>
k thnx
06:24plamengr has joined #ltsp
06:27TelnetManta has quit IRC
06:37
<Pascal_1>
hello
06:37
i've got one question about localdev : why when i plug an usb device on 1 thin client it appear on the other thin client ?
06:39
<vagrantc>
Pascal_1: linux distro and release?
06:39
<Pascal_1>
oups hello vagrantc , debian etch and , i think the last version of ltsp from backports
06:40
<vagrantc>
Pascal_1: using GNOME ?
06:40
<Pascal_1>
yes
06:41
<vagrantc>
yeah, that's likely to happen- i think GNOME will show you all mounted devices, weather you can access them or not.
06:41
not sure if there's a workaround
06:41
<Pascal_1>
it's a "normal" behaviour ?
06:42
<vagrantc>
it doesn't surprise me
06:42
<Pascal_1>
ok but ubuntu use gnome also ? then is there the same behaviour on ubuntu ?
06:45
<vagrantc>
Pascal_1: ubuntu patched GNOME
06:45
<Pascal_1>
hmmm ok
06:46
<vagrantc>
newer versions of GNOME were fixed upstream, i think.
06:46
<Pascal_1>
then the best distro to use for ltsp is ubuntu ?
06:46
<vagrantc>
or debian supplied improvements
06:46
er, patches
06:46
<Pascal_1>
ok
06:46
<vagrantc>
s,supplied,applied,
06:47
!bestltspdistro
06:47
<ltspbot>
vagrantc: "bestltspdistro" is whatever you prefer
06:47
<vagrantc>
there is no best.
06:47
<jammcq>
vagrantc: hey, you made it to spain ?
06:47
<vagrantc>
there are features working, missing, or broken.
06:48
jammcq: well, i decided to go to antarctica instead.
06:48
<jammcq>
heh
06:48
<vagrantc>
you just don't forego opportunities like that
06:48
<jammcq>
shoulda come to michigan. same weather
06:49
<Pascal_1>
hmm vagrantc, have you got news about pam ? ;-)
06:50ogra_cmpc_ has joined #ltsp
06:50
<vagrantc>
Pascal_1: if i did, i would update the bug report.
06:50
well, with the i18n patches applied, ldm doesn't break. still no idea what files i actually need to include in the package.
06:51jammcq has quit IRC
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06:57
<ogra_cmpc_>
the .mo files need to go somewhere into the locale paths iirc
06:57
something with messagews in the pathname
06:58
/usr/share/locale/${LANG}/LC_MESSAGES/
07:01TelnetManta has quit IRC
07:02
<vagrantc>
well, it looks like, for whatever reason, it generates .gmo files, which seem no different from .mo files.
07:02
<ogra_cmpc_>
try it ?
07:02
just dump the de file into the path
07:03
and run ldm with de locale
07:03mhterres has joined #ltsp
07:03
<vagrantc>
tried it ... and i've set de_DE as the default locale ... but somehow it's not registering that. might try and set the locale in the screen script next.
07:04cliebow has joined #ltsp
07:05
<ogra_cmpc_>
you need to run locale-gen de_DE.UTF-8
07:05
and ets it to that
07:05
*set
07:06
there are no de locales by default
07:06
not even if you copy stuff into that dir
07:06
locale-gen is needed
07:06
<vagrantc>
well, i dpkg-reconfigred and selected de_DE and set it to the default
07:06muh2000 has quit IRC
07:06
<vagrantc>
which runs locale-gen
07:06
<ogra_cmpc_>
ah
07:06
we dont have that in ubuntu
07:06
<vagrantc>
but the screen scripts still run as POSIX
07:07
<ogra_cmpc_>
yeah, as i said in the beginning, just prefix the ldm call with LANG=
07:07
in the screen script
07:08TelnetManta has joined #ltsp
07:08
<muh2000_>
daduke: did you use lts.conf for amd/geode vga driver ?
07:09
<vagrantc>
wahooo!
07:09
i don't understand the LDM login screen!
07:10
:)
07:12subir has quit IRC
07:13
<ogra_cmpc_>
so adding lang helped ?
07:13
<vagrantc>
well, using the correct filename in /usr/share/locale helped
07:14* ogra_cmpc_ starts to consider to pull ldm from debian ...
07:14daya has quit IRC
07:14
<vagrantc>
actually, we can just set LANG in lts.conf ... it exports all variables.
07:15
<ogra_cmpc_>
well, we have a locale plugin that should DTRT
07:15
<vagrantc>
still don't really understand the deal with the .gmo vs. .mo files ...
07:17
<muh2000_>
hmpf
07:17
backport wont work :/
07:18Guaraldo has joined #ltsp
07:19
<muh2000_>
it halts at "starting ltsp client...detected xorg server" "calling int 0x15 (f000:f859)" "eax is 0xbf01"
07:20
or without autoconfig black screen again
07:21
<ogra_cmpc_>
oooh, http://www.bstock.com/Lirpa1.htm
07:25
<vagrantc>
hrm.
07:25
now it's not working.
07:28
ah, forgot the .UTF-8 bit
07:29
don't know why it's not recognizing the system default locale ... but this is great progress to see :)
07:30
<ogra_cmpc_>
what release are you on atm ?
07:30
i think the default is now set in /etc/default/locale
07:31
Hailed as a genius in Birkina Faso, Lirpa has won the 2003 Nobel Prize for Cable and sits on the board of directors (though they are none too happy about it as Lirpa, now 89 has apparently never heard of the Atkins diet.)
07:31
hahaha
07:32
i love april 1st
07:39
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc_: yeah, /etc/default/locale is what dpkg-reconfigure modified ...
07:39
ogra_cmpc_: can't find the locale defined elsewhere. ..
07:41slidesinger has joined #ltsp
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07:53* ogra_cmpc_ dances ....
07:53* ogra_cmpc_ just ordered his next laptop :)
07:54
<cliebow>
bigger keyboard 8~)
07:54
?
07:54mhterres has quit IRC
07:54mhterres has joined #ltsp
07:54
<Q-FUNK>
bigger spoons.
07:55
<ogra_cmpc_>
http://www.notebook-paradies.com/oxid.php/sid/5edaa3940591eddf3d83ee1265734734/cl/details/cnid/34d47e3d0619f1822.57725514/anid/34d47e3d1da300ea6.34265928/<b>NEXOC-Osiris-S621---Tablet<_b>/
07:55
<vagrantc>
oh, i haven't figured out where to define ENABLE_NLS yet ...
07:55
<ogra_cmpc_>
its huge, 12.1"
07:56
<cliebow>
cool!
07:56
<ogra_cmpc_>
and a real keyboard (even though the next gen classmate has a better keyboard as well and 9" ... i actually wouldnt need a new lappie)
07:56plamengr has quit IRC
07:57
<cliebow>
im stuck with my "possessed" Christine Sony for the duaration
07:58* Q-FUNK got himself a Dell D430 recently
07:58
<ogra_cmpc_>
well, my "duration" is just over .... all three years i get a new one from canonical (as long as i accept to fix/report all probs i have with it)
07:59
and my old Hp is nearly falling apart
08:00
the sony i had before was actually the most robus one i ever had, its still working fine (with ubuntu arty install)
08:00
*warty
08:00
<cliebow>
ducttape works wonders..
08:00
<ogra_cmpc_>
cliebow, well, if the lid falls over all the time that gets tricky ... i was considering strings from lid to case already
08:00
<cliebow>
hahah!
08:01
<ogra_cmpc_>
at least the keyboard survived ...
08:01
<cliebow>
mine is not that bad..have to squeeze it together every time i use it
08:01gentgeen__ has quit IRC
08:01
<ogra_cmpc_>
i had an acer where the keys started to fall off right after warranty was over
08:01
<cliebow>
after i dumped it on the floor the cursor goes wherever it wants..somewhat inspired by Yoda
08:02
<ogra_cmpc_>
acer + keyboards + heavy daily usage = not good
08:02
<cliebow>
good to know
08:02
i actaually had a Dell handed down to me at school..but im afraid ill break it..
08:03
<ogra_cmpc_>
the very old sonys were very good from a case POV ... saldy sony usually has crap HW inside thats hard to upgrade
08:04Egyptian[Home] has quit IRC
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08:16Shawn_Powers has joined #ltsp
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08:16
<jammcq>
g'morning friends
08:16
<cliebow>
homies!!!
08:22
<Shawn_Powers>
g'morning all (as everyone wonders who the heck Shawn is...)
08:22
;)
08:27mccann has joined #ltsp
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08:37Ankleteeth has joined #ltsp
08:38
<Ankleteeth>
Anybody have any brand thin clients they can recommend that are idea with ltsp?
08:39
<Shawn_Powers>
apart from the sound not working yet (proprietary drivers) I *love* the PXE 1000 from disklessworkstations.com
08:39
cheap, low power
08:39
etc
08:39
<warren>
well, it is also really slow
08:39mhterres has quit IRC
08:39
<warren>
so slow that you feel it when using it as a dumb terminal
08:40mhterres has joined #ltsp
08:40
<warren>
some specific uses of it are fine
08:40
but regular desktop use, I wouldn't recommend
08:40
<Ankleteeth>
nice, i'll look at those
08:40
<Shawn_Powers>
My users generally web browse, and do a little open office work
08:40
so yeah, above that, they are pretty slow
08:40
<Ankleteeth>
low power consumption is high on my desires too, because I want several around the house
08:40
<warren>
Shawn_Powers, isn't it too slow to do even most flash in the browsers?
08:40
<Shawn_Powers>
hmm... I haven't had a problem with it
08:41
<warren>
watching animation in flash in my experience is more like a slideshow
08:41
<Shawn_Powers>
huh... I guess I could look some more
08:41
my standard test is homestarrunner.com
08:41
lol
08:42
<jammcq>
hey Shawn_Powers
08:42* Shawn_Powers is gonna have to go hook one up and play some more
08:42
<Ankleteeth>
I came across a Encore ENTC-1000 on ebay for less than $100USD
08:42
<Shawn_Powers>
Hey Jim. :)
08:42
<Ankleteeth>
it looks ideal, but with minimal experience with ltsp, I'm not sure what kind of problems I'm going to run into
08:43
<Shawn_Powers>
I'm not familiar with it at all, the Encore one that is
08:43
<Ankleteeth>
its only 200Mhz, so I imagine that would be slow with web performance too I bet...
08:44
<Shawn_Powers>
I reviewed the 1000PXE for Linux Journal (under a differnet brand) as a stand alone workstation, and it was slow, but worked with Puppy linux
08:44
which, admittedly, shocked me
08:44
:)
08:45
<Ankleteeth>
I suppose for nominal performance, I should be looking for a thin client with maybe at least 500Mhz?
08:45
<Shawn_Powers>
I guess I'm a bad judge -- my standard userbase is using old Pentium I computers for thin clients. :)
08:46
<Ankleteeth>
Well, I've got nothing against CPUs going that low in speed
08:46
I would at least like most web applications to run flawlessly though
08:46Pascal_1 has quit IRC
08:47
<Ankleteeth>
and they may with a 200Mhz thin client, but I wouldnt know :P
08:47mhterres has quit IRC
08:47
<Shawn_Powers>
I'll try to test 'em a bit later, but I'm working at the school here, plus I"m responsible for the shenanagans at the Linux Journal site today... so I'm kinda swamped
08:47
<Ankleteeth>
I've only just setup ltsp on ubuntu, and had my 2.2ghz desktop boot to it, so I cant really use that as a comparison
08:47
<Shawn_Powers>
(hehe -- yeah, 2.2Ghz is quite a thin client)
08:48
<Ankleteeth>
lol
08:48
<ogra_cmpc_>
Ankleteeth, i wouldnt recommend using the ebox 1000 at all with ubuntu unless you want kiosk terminals that only run firefox locally and nothing else
08:48
there is also no sound support
08:49
the old ltsp term 150 and 170 are fine for desktop use
08:49
<Ankleteeth>
hmm
08:49
<ogra_cmpc_>
i dont thinmk the 150 is available anymore though, it was my absolute favorite (500MHz, 128M ram)
08:50
warren, you stole one of my favorite co workers :( ... seems matthew garret starts at redhat soon
08:50
<Ankleteeth>
yeah, those are nice, I should just get something I know that works
08:50
<warren>
ogra_cmpc_, I don't know anything about this.
08:51ffhghgf is now known as navy_rat
08:51
<ogra_cmpc_>
warren, well, if he started you will find he is the #1 person for any powermanagement issues ...
08:51
<Ankleteeth>
I guess if I buy any cheapy off ebay though, chances are alot of things like sound arent going to work
08:52
<warren>
Ankleteeth, mhz alone doesn't tell the whole story
08:52
<ogra_cmpc_>
Ankleteeth, well, ask here with a list of specs ... we should be able to tell you what works
08:52
<warren>
Ankleteeth, 133MHz Pentium MMX was substantially faster than that 200MHz thin client
08:52
<Ankleteeth>
yeah I believe it
08:53mhterres has joined #ltsp
08:53
<Ankleteeth>
I have old boxes I could use, but I was hoping for lower power consumption with think clients
08:53
then even
08:53
wow...
08:53
<warren>
well, you also need a server to run
08:53
<Ankleteeth>
thin*
08:53
yeah, got that setup
08:54
<Shawn_Powers>
I do have some HP 5000 series thin clients that are really nice
08:54
I htink they were around $199 when I bought them
08:54
<warren>
don't get me wrong, I *like* the PXE 1000 and it is definitely useful for specific cases
08:54
<Shawn_Powers>
full sound, etc
08:54
<ogra_cmpc_>
something around 400MHz with 128M should be fine
08:54
<warren>
but anything with animation or regular desktop usage it isn't it
08:54
<Ankleteeth>
Thats my goal, is to have thin clients spread about, one in the den, one in the kitchen, one in the garage, and a central server
08:55
that way i'm not working on something on one box, and then going elsewhere, and having to pull the file from that specific box
08:56gonzaloaf has joined #ltsp
08:56
<Ankleteeth>
of course really, I just ideally want to have a browser handy in every room
08:56
<Shawn_Powers>
You could always buy a laptop... ;)
08:56* Shawn_Powers can be an arse
08:56
<Ankleteeth>
haha :P
08:57
too much work to move laptop from room to room though...
08:58
or too lazy c_c
08:58
laptop never tends to leave the bedroom...
09:05Pascal_1 has joined #ltsp
09:10
<warren>
ogra_cmpc_, today's rawhide report, we've dropped rpm and yum in favor of dpkg and apt.
09:11
<jammcq>
hahahhaha, that's soooo funny
09:11* jammcq crawls back under his rock
09:12
<ogra_cmpc_>
warren, really ? we decided exactly the opposite for ubuntu ... at least for the commercial enterprise edition
09:12
<warren>
URL?
09:12
<ogra_cmpc_>
gah, you got me
09:13
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc_: leaking sensitive information again?
09:13
<ogra_cmpc_>
happy first of april though :)
09:13
vagrantc, all the time
09:14
<warren>
vagrantc, somebody keeps leaking our source
09:14
<ogra_cmpc_>
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-April/003510.html was my favorite april 1st today
09:14
the community freaked out :)
09:18
warren, this one isnt bad either http://www.bstock.com/Lirpa1.htm
09:18
<warren>
ogra_cmpc_, a few years ago one of my co-workers made this for April 1st http://www.offshoreexecutive.com/
09:18
<ogra_cmpc_>
could help us with ltsp
09:18
<warren>
ogra_cmpc_, he continues to get threatening e-mail today =)
09:19
<ogra_cmpc_>
heh
09:21* vagrantc pushes the ldm patches for i18n
09:24
<warren>
vagrantc, oh?
09:25
<ogra_cmpc_>
warren, you surely sleep to much
09:25
<vagrantc>
warren: i marked a debian bug as request for help, and someone provided a patch :)
09:25
<ogra_cmpc_>
:)
09:25
we're translateable now !
09:25
vagrantc, did you find the switch for the ifdef ?
09:25
<vagrantc>
it may need a couple more fixes, but (clearly) i felt it was commit worthy :)
09:25
<warren>
although the language names are still incoherent
09:26
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc_: no, haven't figured that out yet.
09:26
warren: yes, but the user-interface at least can be translated
09:26
even if the list of languages isn't.
09:26
<warren>
vagrantc, did you check in an initial .pot file?
09:26
<ogra_cmpc_>
the list of langs first needs descritive names
09:26
<vagrantc>
i think they're technically two separate, though related, issues.
09:27
<Shawn_Powers>
ok, shameless self promotion, but I think it's funny as heck http://www.linuxjournal.com (I'm the guy in the video on the right)
09:27
<warren>
see how the new rewrite of gdm does languages
09:28
<ogra_cmpc_>
vagrantc, for the langs i'd just build dep on gdm and steal everything from there :)
09:28
warren, is that released already ?
09:28
<warren>
ogra_cmpc_, upstream and in Fedora 9
09:29
<ogra_cmpc_>
for the sessions we need to patch ldminfod to also provide the session names out of the 0desktop file
09:29
.desktop
09:29
<warren>
does ldm already use pango?
09:29
<ogra_cmpc_>
warren, upstream as in gnome 2.22 ?
09:29
i dont think so
09:29
<warren>
gdm displays the language names using the native character sets
09:29
<ogra_cmpc_>
ouch
09:29
<warren>
well, you really need that
09:30
<ogra_cmpc_>
that forces a lot of fonts into the chroot
09:30
<warren>
yes it does
09:30
<ogra_cmpc_>
which makes X startup slow
09:30
<warren>
ogra_cmpc_, oh, here's the thing
09:30
<ogra_cmpc_>
i had that
09:30
<warren>
ogra_cmpc_, if the font is missing it doesn't bother to display the language.
09:30
<ogra_cmpc_>
urgh
09:30
<daduke>
muh2000_: sorry, was in a meeting... yes, I use lts.conf
09:30
<ogra_cmpc_>
thats even more evil
09:30
<warren>
go complain upstream
09:30
<ogra_cmpc_>
fine for local gdm installs though
09:30
but bad for our usecase
09:30Pascal_1 has left #ltsp
09:31
<vagrantc>
that's why we need something like a font server for X windows :)
09:32* vagrantc hides
09:32
<ogra_cmpc_>
heh
09:32
<vagrantc>
warren: thanks for the offshoreexecutive.com link :)
09:33praveer_cool has quit IRC
09:33
<warren>
vagrantc, need to hire an executive? I get paid commissions if I refer you.
09:33
=)
09:35
vagrantc, the sad thing is that offshoreexecutives might become more expensive than local executives with USD evaluation.
09:35
devaluation*
09:35
<ogra_cmpc_>
nowadays for sure
09:35
<vagrantc>
and europe isn't foolish enough to use US executives ... or is it?
09:36
<ogra_cmpc_>
some are .... we had ron sommer for german telekom
09:37
my last company had heaps of british guys in the upper management
09:37
also some US
09:40mikkel has joined #ltsp
09:41slidesinger has quit IRC
09:41
<warren>
-# Copyright (C) YEAR Scott Balneaves
09:41
+# Copyright (C) YEAR THE PACKAGE'S COPYRIGHT HOLDER
09:41
vagrantc, ?
09:42
<vagrantc>
warren: it's a template. we maybe shouldn't even include it in revision control, as it is auto-generated.
09:42
<warren>
yeah
09:42
<vagrantc>
well, should be auto-generated.
09:43
though i've kept the other .pot files in revision control ... just to keep it easy to have around ... also makes it possible to update the comments as notes to translators
09:44
but i guess we could auto-generate that as well, with the comments added as a header template
09:51
<warren>
vagrantc, it is standard to have the .pot and .po files in revision control
09:51
vagrantc, although more complicated will be giving translators direct access to translate it
09:51
vagrantc, we might need to put it into a separate bzr tree
09:52
translators really don't like to go through intermediaries
09:52
especially when there are multiple and they can easily step on each other
09:52
<vagrantc>
up till now, we've mostly just been using debian's translation infrastructure (and sometimes ubuntu's) ... this is about to get very interesting.
09:53
<warren>
https://translate.fedoraproject.org/
09:53
Transifex is our project (this is our instance of it) that allows translators to do it on the website (gateways to the SCM) or directly to SCM.
09:55
<vagrantc>
warren: debian's process typically involves posting requests to l10n mailing lists, where it is (usually) peer reviewed and then posted as a bug report against the appropriate package.
09:55
it's mostly used for strings only within debian, but i've been using it for "upstream" ltsp as well.
09:55slidesinger has joined #ltsp
09:56
<vagrantc>
as a multiple-distro-oriented upstream for ltsp ... i'm not quite sure how we'll want to handle this.
09:57
<warren>
vagrantc, exactly like GNOME
09:57
vagrantc, allow translators to checkin directly to the source control
09:57
meaning we have to split it into a separate repository and occasionally sync it over
09:58
for releases
09:58
err... tags
09:59
<vagrantc>
how about just maintaining a branch that's translations only, and we merge it?
10:00Q-FUNK has quit IRC
10:01
<warren>
vagrantc, yeah, that's the idea.
10:01
vagrantc, ltsp-l10n or something
10:01
<vagrantc>
and ldm-l10n, and ltspfs-l10n (if it becomes needed)
10:02
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, http://cyberorg.kicks-ass.org/ltsp/ldm-trunk.i18n/
10:02* ogra_cmpc_ sighs while fixing up dhcpd's suspend/hibernate scripts
10:02
<warren>
*unless*
10:02
ogra_cmpc_, does launchpad allow you to give commit access only to certain directories/files to a different group?
10:02
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, it works http://pastebin.ca/965893 the build log, i had posted this earlier, just after you left
10:03
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: is this based on the recent commits?
10:03
<ogra_cmpc_>
warren, no idea
10:03
but i dont think so
10:03
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, i applied the patch that you posted, and minor change i made on that
10:03
in two different commits
10:03
<ogra_cmpc_>
warren, do you want to restrict access per distro ?
10:03
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: oh, i just committed the patch ...
10:04
<warren>
ogra_cmpc_, no, l10n
10:04
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, ok, then see the last commit in my branch
10:04
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: i'll just try and merge and see what happens :)
10:05
<cyberorg>
i have de.po and fr.po installed
10:05
*.mo, sorry
10:05
<ogra_cmpc_>
warren, thats what LP has rosetta for ... it can monitor our .po files in the branch, the translators have thier own group ACLs in the rosetta frontend
10:05
<warren>
ogra_cmpc_, URL?
10:05
<ogra_cmpc_>
https://translations.launchpad.net/
10:05
<vagrantc>
still non-free software?
10:06
<ogra_cmpc_>
ldm isnt registered yet, but the translatorss are awesomly fast ...
10:06
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, it is a service :)
10:06
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: yes, i prefer to minimize dependence on non-free services.
10:06
<ogra_cmpc_>
vagrantc, why does it need to be free ... as long as you can access all data freely .... its a tool
10:07
the translation files are all freely accessible
10:07
all rosetta adds is ACL and a webfrontend for editing, evqaluating and judging QA for the strings
10:07
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc_: it doesn't have to be free, but for all the reasons i like free software, i prefer to not be dependent on non-free tools.
10:07bobby_C has quit IRC
10:08
<ogra_cmpc_>
you dont depend on anything, you can grab all the files at every time from the tool, they are all standard gettext
10:08
it just provides frontends for editing and an awesome translator community for free
10:09
<warren>
ogra_cmpc_, do you have translators for the asian languages/
10:09
Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc.
10:09
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc_: well, if translators get used to that tool and no others, and we loose it, then we're not in a good place.
10:09
<warren>
vagrantc, it sounds like an optional gateway for translators to edit the .po files without needing us to get involved.
10:09
<ogra_cmpc_>
warren, https://translations.launchpad.net/+languages
10:09
<vagrantc>
warren: exactly
10:10
<ogra_cmpc_>
look for zh
10:10
<warren>
ogra_cmpc_, does it disallow people from doing it directly in bzr?
10:10
<ogra_cmpc_>
it only pulls the pot file from a given url
10:10
and we can pull the translations back in from it
10:10
<warren>
ogra_cmpc_, it is integrated into the bzr right?
10:10
<ogra_cmpc_>
its a separate tool
10:10
<warren>
oh
10:11
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: can we have it automatically detect which languages, rather than maintaining that in a separate file?
10:11
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, that is the standard way to do it, all languages has to go in LINGUAS file
10:12
it is just one time task, that file won't be touched once all the po files are in
10:12
<ogra_cmpc_>
warren, it uses the same backends
10:12
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: so, rather than simply dropping a new .po file in the directory, you also have to remember to edit the LINGUAS file ...
10:12
cyberorg: doesn't that seem ... redundant?
10:13
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, yes :) better than adding it to configure.ac
10:13
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: in ltsp-trunk/po it just detects all the .po files present and includes them.
10:13
granted, we're not using autotools
10:13
with ltsp
10:14
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, via script?
10:14
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: what's with the --force options ?
10:15gonzaloaf_test has quit IRC
10:15
<cyberorg>
maintaining LINGUAS file has several advantages, you can remove the languages that prevents building due to bad po files
10:15
<ogra_cmpc_>
warren, have a look aoround with a real app https://translations.launchpad.net/audacious/1.4/+pots/audacious
10:16
<cyberorg>
--force: Replace existing files if they exist
10:17
<warren>
ogra_cmpc_, heh, Japanese has nothing
10:18
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: could you try and merge ldm-trunk and resolve the conflicts?
10:18
<ogra_cmpc_>
for audacious
10:18
:)
10:18
its only one app
10:18
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, just apply last commit of mine over what you have
10:19elisboa has joined #ltsp
10:19
<ogra_cmpc_>
warren, but feel free to add a translation :) just click on the lang and you can make suggestions in the webform ... the translators will surely review it :)
10:20
<warren>
ogra_cmpc_, how can translators review it if there aren't any for that langauge?
10:20
<ogra_cmpc_>
there is surely a general japanese team
10:21
just none that cares for audacious specifically
10:21
they will be notified
10:21
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: ok. then we loose your commit message.
10:21
<ogra_cmpc_>
if you check "Someone should review this translation "
10:21
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, never mind that :)
10:22
just add "minor modifications to i18n infrastructure"
10:22* vagrantc uses bzr --shelve magic to make everything cool.
10:22
<vagrantc>
er, bzr shelve
10:23
<ogra_cmpc_>
warren, https://translations.launchpad.net/audacious/1.4/+pots/audacious/ja/+export would then give you .po and .mo (thats scriptable as well, so you could pull them at packge build time to get the very latest for example)
10:23
<warren>
ogra_cmpc_, should I interpret everything purple as "translated in ubuntu but we didn't bother pushing it upstream"?
10:24
<ogra_cmpc_>
?
10:24
i think that means its packaged in an ubuntu language pack directly from the LP files
10:24K_O-Gnom has quit IRC
10:25
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: i didn't know about the author/comitter distingushing ...
10:25
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, --author "someone <someone@somewhere>" -m "changelog message"
10:26
<vagrantc>
that's really cool :)
10:26
<ogra_cmpc_>
warren, no matter if upstream uses it or not, its up to the translators to push stuff upstream
10:26
or up to upstream to use rosetta for trnslations
10:27
<warren>
I might point out that is again the "making it available" fallacy
10:27
That is NOT the same thing as being proactive with upstream.
10:28
jcastro, ^^
10:30
<vagrantc>
if you have several different translations going several different directions with several different sets of strings ... it's going to get ugly and difficult to merge.
10:30* ogra_cmpc_ dies http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/superpiipii.html?cpg=70H
10:31slidesinger has quit IRC
10:34
<cyberorg>
hi guys, i would like to share this great news that just arrived, wyse is going to buy kiwi-ltsp technology for whopping USD $30 Million
10:35
<warren>
what exactly are they buying?
10:35
<cyberorg>
warren, everything we worked so far ;)
10:35
<warren>
are they making it proprietary?
10:35
<cyberorg>
they saw the prebuilt image and were impressed, no it will be open sourced
10:35
<warren>
kiwi-ltsp was already open sourced?
10:36
<cyberorg>
they will be hiring about 100 developers in china to work on it further
10:36
<warren>
Well, this makes sense, because wyse's previous images really sucked.
10:36
cyberorg, what does this mean to Novell doing LTSP? They just sold that "division" away and no longer do it themselves?
10:36
<cyberorg>
warren, novell never did ltsp
10:37
http://www.novell.com/products/thinclient/
10:37
<warren>
then what was kiwi?
10:38
<cyberorg>
kiwi is open source project, different than what novell uses for the above ^^
10:38
kiwi is not even hosted at novell
10:38
<warren>
I'm confused
10:38
what exactly is kiwi then?
10:39
<cyberorg>
warren, it is distro independent imaging technology
10:39
http://kiwi.berlios.de/
10:39
<warren>
Novell just happened to be involved with it?
10:40
<cyberorg>
novell's technology was known as Point Of Sale (not piece of shit)
10:40
<warren>
What is the relationship between Novell and kiwi in the past?
10:40
<cyberorg>
warren, the kiwi developer works for novell
10:40
<warren>
Novell wasn't shipping kiwi then?
10:40
cyberorg, then who received the $30 million?
10:40
<cyberorg>
of course it is shipped on openSUSE
10:41
warren, i, of course, who else ;)
10:41
i'll give a mill to shaefi and captain_magnus
10:41
<warren>
OK...
10:42* cyberorg thinks this lasted too long
10:42
<warren>
You actually did most of the work?
10:42
<cyberorg>
warren, do you have date command on fedora?
10:42
<warren>
cyberorg, yeah, isn't that standard?
10:42
<cyberorg>
warren, run it ;)
10:43* jammcq gets tired of silly april fools jokes
10:43
<warren>
oh
10:43
cyberorg, it sounded plausible because Wyse is dumb enough to do something that foolish.
10:43
<cyberorg>
LOL jammcq not when someone plays along
10:45Gadi has joined #ltsp
10:45* warren silent.wav
10:45* vagrantc waves to Gadi
10:45* Gadi does big stadium wave to all
10:45elisboa has quit IRC
10:46
<cyberorg>
hi Gadi you missed all the excitement
10:46gentgeen__ has joined #ltsp
10:47
<warren>
vagrantc, ogra_cmpc_: are you folks using the standard ldm theme?
10:47
vagrantc, ogra_cmpc_: i want to make my own, but I want to see what other folks are using first.
10:47staffencasa has joined #ltsp
10:47
<vagrantc>
warren: i used to ship a custom theme for debian, and made it the default, but i didn't since ldm split into a separate source package.
10:47
<warren>
cyberorg, "Stupid company does something foolish" sounded too real.
10:47
<ogra_cmpc_>
warren, mine are in the packaging
10:47
<Gadi>
cyberorg: do tell, /me rests head between backs of hands
10:48
<cyberorg>
warren, :D
10:48
<vagrantc>
warren: but the debian theme was identical to the ltsp theme with a debian logo instead
10:48
<warren>
vagrantc, just replacing the letters with a transparent background?
10:48
<cyberorg>
Gadi, warren is hired by wyse, will get 10 mill a year to work on ltsp
10:48
<vagrantc>
warren: just a different logo.png ... yeah.
10:48* ogra_cmpc_ ships four themes
10:49
<Gadi>
cyberorg: ur joking
10:49
<cyberorg>
nope
10:49
<vagrantc>
i've thought about making a separate source package for debian
10:49
<cyberorg>
ask him
10:49
<vagrantc>
debian theme
10:49
<cyberorg>
i am using modified theme
10:49
<ogra_cmpc_>
Gadi, vagrantc didnt want to, so they offered it to warren
10:50
<Gadi>
ah - I knew warren couldnt have been the first choice :P
10:52* vagrantc wonders what hppa hardware looks like
10:52
<vagrantc>
the only thing blocking ldm and ltsp is hppa now.
10:52* cliebow cliebow and Gadi will team up for next season's "Biggest Loser"
10:53
<warren>
vagrantc, vaguely like a moose.
10:53
<ogra_cmpc_>
vagrantc, very rough silicon surface
10:53* warren food
10:53
<vagrantc>
i need to hunt me down an hppa machine.
10:53
and kill it ... er ... build ldm and ltsp on it.
10:54
<ogra_cmpc_>
vagrantc, lamont does hppa in ubuntu and debian ... do you have bugs ? or does it just sit to far down the build queue ?
10:54* vagrantc can't imagine eating a moose-like rough silicon surface
10:54
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc_: it's just way down on the build queue ... hasn't migrated to testing for 78 days because of buildd issues.
10:54
ogra_cmpc_: including a proper fix for the RC security bug.
10:55
<ogra_cmpc_>
bah
10:55
<vagrantc>
(although a partial fix was included in testing-security-updates)
10:55makghosh has joined #ltsp
10:55* vagrantc thinks people don't properly distinguish between priority extra and priority optional
10:56
<vagrantc>
or the definitions in debian policy are poor...
10:56
<ogra_cmpc_>
bump it temporary to essential
10:56
*g*
10:56
<vagrantc>
and extra priority packages only get builds when higher priority packages are all finished
10:57
essential is weird.
10:57
it's a separate category (i.e. not priority)
10:58
<ogra_cmpc_>
err, required i meant :)
10:58
<vagrantc>
then it'll get pulled in by debootstrap :)
10:58
<ogra_cmpc_>
yeah
10:58
make sure popcon is enabled :)
10:58
<vagrantc>
but i think it ignores whatever priority i set on the package until the ftp-masters update the overrides
11:03
<ogra_cmpc_>
vagrantc, oh, i see you have an usbfloppy bug ...
11:03
i have one here, it doesnt register as floppy at all
11:03
only as /dev/sgX
11:05
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc_: but for ltspfs, we need to treat it as a floppy
11:05
<ogra_cmpc_>
that will need special udev rules
11:05
<vagrantc>
unless it provides insert/eject events
11:05
<ogra_cmpc_>
and i dont have any idea how other sg device will break through that
11:05
mine doesnt
11:06
it is a mechanical one, just has usb connection
11:06
the kernel doesnt treat it as floppy is the problem here
11:06
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc_: can you look in it's sysfs tree for anything that might distinguish it?
11:07
<Gadi>
ogra_cmpc_: does it also make a /dev/sda device?
11:07
<vagrantc>
the stupid thing is, a few months back, i actually had my hands on a usb floppy drive, and i used it to confirm the problem... but it got lost when an area at freegeek got cleaned.
11:08
<Gadi>
usually usb-storage will claim it and create /dev/sda
11:08
<vagrantc>
the floppy stratus was using used /dev/sd*
11:08
and the one i used
11:08
<Gadi>
I have code to solve unpartitioned USB sticks that should catch that usbfloppy as well
11:09
provided it creates /dev/sda and no /dev/sda?
11:09
<vagrantc>
oh really? :)
11:09
<Gadi>
:D
11:09
its all tested and pretty
11:09
well, tested anyway
11:09
its actually a certified gadi hack
11:09
but it works
11:10
<ltsppbot>
"vagrantc" pasted "stratus's original udev rules for usb floppies" (7 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/491
11:11
<vagrantc>
ATTRS{interface}=="FLOPPY" ?
11:12
<Gadi>
hmm... thats a new one to me, too
11:12
does it work?
11:12
<vagrantc>
worked back when i tested it...
11:12
<ogra_cmpc_>
hmm, it doesnt get recognized at all now
11:12
<vagrantc>
but the delayed-mounter stuff was totally different than it is now... so the patch doesn't apply anymore
11:13
<ogra_cmpc_>
[71010.584951] usb 3-2: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 5
11:13
[71010.799491] usb 3-2: device not accepting address 5, error -71
11:13
doesnt look good
11:14
<Gadi>
ogra_cmpc_: is there a floppy in the drive when you plug it in?
11:14
<ogra_cmpc_>
yes
11:14
the prob is on a lower level
11:14
same error with or without floppy
11:15
<Gadi>
yeah, usually those errors (error -71) is the driver not being able to talk to the device controller
11:15
if you can, try a different usb port
11:15
<ogra_cmpc_>
tried all two the classmate has :)
11:17* vagrantc looks, as if through a hazy fog, at a bzr branch that seems to be whisps of ether http://www.ltsp.org/~sbalneav/jetpipe/
11:17
<ogra_cmpc_>
heh
11:17
thats the C rewrite i think
11:17
<vagrantc>
yeah.
11:17
<ogra_cmpc_>
but not finished afaik
11:18
<vagrantc>
i also recently took a look at p910nd again
11:21
<ogra_cmpc_>
does it offer more than jetpipe ?
11:21
i actually like how simple jetpipe is
11:22
<vagrantc>
don't really know
11:22
we could probably start the python jetpipe from udev
11:22
if the C jetpipe isn't ready
11:22
<ogra_cmpc_>
its 30 lines of python or so
11:22
really really small
11:23
<vagrantc>
unfortunately, python is a little resource-intensive for pass-through printing as a daemon ...
11:23
would it make sense to run on-demand through inetd ?
11:23
<ogra_cmpc_>
that means inetd in the chrrot
11:23
*chroot
11:24
bad idea imho
11:24
<vagrantc>
or micro-inetd, which can be run for a single daemon on a single port
11:24
<ogra_cmpc_>
i'd propose udev
11:25
that doesnt add extra daemons and will only start it on demand
11:25spectra has joined #ltsp
11:25
<ogra_cmpc_>
even though io dont know much about udev vs parallel port
11:25
<vagrantc>
i also want to work on cdpinger through udev ... but that pretty much means dealing with debian bug #454478, ltspfsd should not recommends ldm
11:26
i.e. splitting it into ltspfsd-core and ltspfsd
11:26
<ogra_cmpc_>
i'm not opposed
11:26
i think i mentioned that
11:26
<vagrantc>
yesright
11:26
i also want to move the ltspfsd code out of the ltsp init script(s)
11:27
<ogra_cmpc_>
makes sense
11:27
<vagrantc>
so probably ltspfsd needs it's own daemon
11:27
<ogra_cmpc_>
initscript you mean
11:27
<vagrantc>
yeah
11:27
<ogra_cmpc_>
it is a daemon already :)
11:27
get out of the sun dude
11:27
:)
11:28
<vagrantc>
i'm getting snow-blindness
11:28
<ogra_cmpc_>
heh
11:28
<warren>
yeah, I really want to stop using inetd/xinetd
11:28
<ogra_cmpc_>
warren, for what ?
11:28
<vagrantc>
what's so evil about inetd?
11:28
<warren>
ogra_cmpc_, anything at all
11:29
<ogra_cmpc_>
and do what with the processes these handled ?
11:29
<vagrantc>
write standalone daemons for everything?
11:29
<ogra_cmpc_>
ugh
11:29
<vagrantc>
i think most of what we're currently using inetd for is pretty much an appropriate use
11:29
<ogra_cmpc_>
yep
11:31
<warren>
hm
11:31
I guess my main problem is inetd for tftpd
11:32
<ogra_cmpc_>
for things like ldminfod it would even just be wasted resources
11:32
to run something permanently
11:32
same goes for tftp
11:33
<warren>
xinetd solved the "having to add stuff to a single text file" problem only to introduce a new problem
11:33
<ogra_cmpc_>
warren, doesnt have fedora a default way to provide tftp ?
11:33
<warren>
"the /etc/xinetd.d/* files are modified merely to enable them"
11:33
ogra_cmpc_, via xinetd
11:34
<ogra_cmpc_>
i didnt even made that choice in ubuntu but use the distro default
11:34
*make
11:34
and i think we should just leave it to the distro defaults ...
11:35
all that matters is that your files are in the right place
11:35
my ltsp server side doesnt touch the tftp config anyhow ... all i do is depending on tftpd-hpa ... and copy the files into the right dir
11:36
(dir being also teh distro default)
11:36
and i think vagrant does exactly the same
11:43
warren, btw, do your daemons properly suspend and resume ? school admins/teachers love to use suspend or hibernate on classroom servers
11:43
<vagrantc>
well, ltsp-update-kernels will copy to both /tftpboot and /var/lib/tftpboot if they are both present.
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11:44
<warren>
ogra_cmpc_, they do? why?
11:44
<gvy>
(leaving for home) vagrantc, hope to get back to commit reordering/merging tomorrow -- is it possible you'll have some more time to help with that?
11:44
<warren>
ogra_cmpc_, I think it would work
11:44
<ogra_cmpc_>
warren, just because i ported our dhcpd scripts over to pm-utils today ...
11:45
<warren>
gotta go to an appointment now
11:45
ogra_cmpc_, ah yeah, I will have to look at that
11:47
<gvy>
we'll rearrange commits so that at least more easy merges can be merged
11:47
<vagrantc>
gvy: possibly some tomorrow. after that, i'll probably be focusing on debian for a while.
11:47
<gvy>
vagrantc, thx :)
11:47
<vagrantc>
gvy: that would be awesome.
11:48
gvy: after all, i did get sponsored to come here for debian ltsp stuff :)
11:48
<gvy>
vagrantc, re is_yes or boolean_is_false -- led tells he used that to test for custom vars in ltsp_config (being concerned that merging e.g. compache-related vars upstream might be tougher since these require custom kernel)
11:49
so hope we'll have some more discussion over the (current) rest and get back to you :)
11:49
<vagrantc>
gvy: sure. we'll work something out eventually
11:49
<ogra_cmpc_>
gvy, is compcache ever likely to go upstream ?
11:50
its a pretty heavy hack
11:51
<gvy>
ogra_cmpc_, don't know... we use it in thin client-specific kernel (that's custom for different reason, net swap anti-deadlock patches by Peter Zijlstra)
11:51
so no big deal
11:51
<ogra_cmpc_>
(i like it a lot though, but i doubt it will ever hit upstream)
11:51
<vagrantc>
it's more than just a module?
11:51
<ogra_cmpc_>
that excludes it for most of the participating distros as default option
11:51
vagrantc, i think it involves kernel patches
11:52
i'm going to focus a bit on subnotebook ram reduction in intrepid and will take a deep look
11:52
and discuss it with our kernel team
11:52
<vagrantc>
my quick glance suggested module... but if it requires kernel patching...
11:52
<ogra_cmpc_>
i dont get wht you need a separate blockdevice instead of just applying the compression to the ram
11:53
<vagrantc>
already recieved a spanish translation for ldm :)
11:53
<ogra_cmpc_>
vagrantc, i think the kernel needs lzma patches
11:53
vagrantc, saw that :)
11:53
<vagrantc>
oh, those nasty things.
11:53
<ogra_cmpc_>
they are so fast
11:54
<gvy>
another variable change deals with udev (there's code to stop it after initial /dev population so that 16M RAM is OK :)
11:54
<ogra_cmpc_>
how would any of the hw detection work then ?
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11:54
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc_: i'll be meeting the submitter of the es.po for ldm tomorrow, i think.
11:54
<ogra_cmpc_>
hehe
11:55
<gvy>
what (runtime) hw detection on 16M system???
11:55
<ogra_cmpc_>
pay him a beer from me
11:55
<gvy>
those didn't have usb outside mobo usually :)
11:55
ogra_cmpc_, so sorta tradeoff :)
11:55
<ogra_cmpc_>
gvy, that means a lot patches to distro packages by definition of ltsp5
11:56
<gvy>
ogra_cmpc_, well we didn't patch udev (and live with a hook in stock startup scripts by now)
11:56
<ogra_cmpc_>
since we wont sipt patched binaries in ltsp ... by definition it has to be distro packages
11:56
*ship
11:56
<gvy>
yup
11:56
*spit :)
11:56
<ogra_cmpc_>
heh
11:56* gvy . o O ( ltsp4 was like "dump" :)
11:56
<ogra_cmpc_>
right
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11:57
<gvy>
ogra_cmpc_, in short, we support that definition 100%
11:57
<ogra_cmpc_>
if you do it in startup scripts that wont apply to initramfs
11:57
<gvy>
initial udev has much smaller footprint... and isn't around by the time init kicks in [here]
11:58
<ogra_cmpc_>
so it wouldnt help in debian or ubuntu, we'd both need initramfs hooks for that
11:58
<gvy>
so it's as well custom as you can see :) the question is how could we better merge custom things w/o spoiling anything common, right?
11:59
<ogra_cmpc_>
we cant ... every distro uses its own initramfs builders ...
11:59
<gvy>
vagrantc, btw could a functions-local hook in functions be reasonable or a gaping hole for abuse? :)
11:59
<ogra_cmpc_>
with stuff you do in there you are alone usually
11:59
<gvy>
ogra_cmpc_, yup
11:59
<vagrantc>
gvy: actually, i pretty much was thinking that's exactly the direction we should be heading ...
12:00
gvy: and have some common functions like ... detect_architecture ... in which the implementation was distro-specific, but the function name and how it is called and what it does is the same across distros
12:01
<ogra_cmpc_>
that sounds very sane
12:01
<gvy>
vagrantc, yes; i guess that would help microforks a bit too much but then again we can try to set up "deforking parties" to review the code which might be commoditized
12:02
<Led> like [ -f /usr/share/ltsp/finctions-$VENDOR ] && . /usr/share/ltsp/finctions-$VENDOR
12:02
<ogra_cmpc_>
$VENDOR fictions
12:02
<gvy>
(probably not exactly $VENDOR)
12:02
yeah
12:02
<vagrantc>
basically, yes. although we might want to hard-code $VENDOR when building the package.
12:03
<gvy>
vagrantc, i just told "build time" here 8)
12:03
<vagrantc>
sure
12:03* ogra_cmpc_ prefers real vendors to fictionary ones
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12:11
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: where's the intltoolize program come from?
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12:12
<cyberorg>
intltool-0.37.1-4
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12:14
<yopla>
heelo, is there a developper?
12:14
of ldm
12:14
<johnny>
hi ltsp folks
12:15
<vagrantc>
yopla: a few have been known to frequent this channel.
12:15
!question
12:15
<ltspbot>
vagrantc: "question" is if you have a question about ltsp, please go ahead and ask it, and people will respond if they can. please also mention the linux distro and release you're using. :)
12:15
<yopla>
sorry! Question : ldm-5-0-39. I've added a gtk label
12:16
<ogra_cmpc_>
gvy, minimal requirement for ltsp5 per client with gnome or kde desktop is 128M per session for the server, how to you get 20+ clients out of 2048M if the server itself needs 256M to operate at least ?
12:16
<yopla>
I need to fill it with a LDM_ like var from lts.conf
12:17
it is to dispaly per host message opn login screen
12:17
<gvy>
ogra_cmpc_, hm, my feeling is currently "100M with enough tabs"
12:17
but then again, altlinux comes with -Wl,--as-needed by default
12:18
considerable PITA with broken upstreams but it pays :)
12:18
<ogra_cmpc_>
gvy, we choose that default because even if everyone uses oo.o and ff at the same time on a gnome or kde desktop it will still work ...
12:18
<gvy>
e.g. gdm went down from 19 to 10 libs and 5% faster timed startup
12:19
ogra_cmpc_, well np :) i think he still should have enough reserve with 2 gigs
12:19
<ogra_cmpc_>
indeed
12:19
<yopla>
i thght about ldminfo_init is that right?
12:19
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: hrm. after applying your patches to ldm, i can't get ./autogen.sh to run ...
12:19* gvy is away: ~
12:20
<gvy>
thanks folks, really should run off the office
12:20
bb!
12:20
<ogra_cmpc_>
ciao
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12:20
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, error?
12:21
<ltsppbot>
"vagrantc" pasted "ldm ./autogen.sh error" (11 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/492
12:21
<ogra_cmpc_>
yopla, all lts.conf vars are exported as global vars ... if you feed it from an LDM_* variable via lts.conf just using getenv() should work
12:22
<yopla>
wow great
12:22
I try this
12:23
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: seems to be glib-gettextize
12:23
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, i get that too, echo $? returns 0 so it completed successfully
12:24
<vagrantc>
that's awfully noisy for a sucessful thingy.
12:24
<ogra_cmpc_>
not very unix style
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12:30
<yopla>
Wouwou ! thanks for the trick. It works like a charm
12:30
<ogra_cmpc_>
:)
12:31
<yopla>
could it be integrated in the next ldmgtkgreeter?
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12:33
<ogra_cmpc_>
mail a patch to the ltsp-devel list or supply a bzr branch with the changes
12:33
<yopla>
Ok, i'll do it tomorrow
12:34
have a nice day
12:34
bye
12:34
<ogra_cmpc_>
vagrantc, LP supports team based mailing lists since a week or so ... would it make sense to activate that and default to send commits to that ? (abuse that feature as public ltsp-upstream-commits list)
12:34
ciao yopla
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12:35
<ogra_cmpc_>
so people can get commits from gmane etc if they want
12:36
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc_: maybe a good idea.
12:36
ogra_cmpc_: well ... if it's an optional subscription ...
12:36
<johnny>
dberkholz, do you know what url i use to commit to the overlay?
12:39
<dberkholz>
johnny: the same one you checked it out with, if you did it right =P
12:41
git+ssh://git@git.overlays.gentoo.org/proj/ltsp
12:41
<ogra_cmpc_>
vagrantc, i have to check that, just noticed the new feature
12:43
<johnny>
ok.. just making sure
12:43
checking out worked, but pushing not so much :)
12:44
ok wait..
12:44
no.. pulling doesn't work
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12:44
<johnny>
ERROR:gitosis.serve.main:Repository read access denied
12:45
<dberkholz>
johnny: you've got the protocol and username the same as above in your .git/config ?
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12:45
<johnny>
uhmm.. no :) i'm just going by the instructions i've found on the overlay site
12:45
didn't see anything about ~/.git/config, i only see a ~/.gitconfig
12:46
in my home that is
12:46
<dberkholz>
johnny: those are for users, not developers, and .git is in your cloned repository, not your home directory
12:46
johnny: i was under the impression that you already had a copy of the repository with your commits in it. is that not the case?
12:47
<johnny>
not the overlay
12:47
ok.. so cloning is what doesn't work .. the last working one i had was anonymous
12:47
but i deleted that one
12:47
<dberkholz>
johnny: you can easily change that by simply editing .git/config as i mentioned
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12:48
<dberkholz>
if you can't get a clone using the above url, either you didn't get access set up properly or your ssh key isn't on your system
12:49
<johnny>
i'm guessing the first
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12:51
<dberkholz>
johnny: so `git clone git+ssh://git@git.overlays.gentoo.org/proj/ltsp` gives you that read denied error?
12:52
<johnny>
yes
12:52
<dberkholz>
johnny: ok, the overlays people should be able to fix that if you contact them
12:52
<johnny>
yes.. waiting for it :)
12:53
i've just been cleaning up my ebuilds anyways
12:54
removing spaces and stuff
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15:29
<warren>
ogra_cmpc_, do you know if it is easy to test the ldm gtkgreeter standalone? (to help the artist in theme development)
15:29
ogra_cmpc_, does your theme stick to 256 colors?
15:30
<Pascal>
bonsoir
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17:03
<vagrantc>
otavio: what to do about slow buildd's for ldm? now hppa is the staller. the last couple months it's been mips* ... sometimes alpha has fallen behind. and once in a while it's sparc. ldm hasn't migrated to testing since early january, and the only reason is one buildd or another holds it up.
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17:13
<otavio>
vagrantc: see if you can find someone you get it build there.
17:14
vagrantc: I'm with hardware problems right now and can't take a look at it for you
17:14
vagrantc: I guess I can help you better later today/tomorrow
17:14
<vagrantc>
otavio: good luck with that :)
17:14
<sutula>
What do people use in a classroom situation with ltsp, when you want the instructor to be able to view all the student's screens? Something like vnc that works well under X? Preferably something the students don't have to explicitly run?
17:14
<vagrantc>
otavio: tomorrow i'll be in extremadura :)
17:15
<otavio>
vagrantc: oh, that's great.
17:15
vagrantc: you can probably find someone over there to upload it.
17:16
<vagrantc>
sutula: the best i've heard of is italc, but last i knew it is typically run as the user ... not sure if they have to explicitly start it ... probably not hard to add it to /etc/X11/Xsession.d
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17:16
<vagrantc>
sutula: but i say this having not really used it much.
17:17
<sutula>
vagrantc: Thanks...I'll read up on it. Just looking for suggestions from anyone.
17:17
<vagrantc>
sutula: i'll be with the debian-edu folks in extremadura the next few days, though... i can ask around.
17:17
<sutula>
vagrantc: That would be appreciated
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17:22
<warren>
vagrantc, do you know if I should limit a ldm theme to any # of colors?
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17:32
<vagrantc>
warren: i don't think it's a requirement. of course, the fancier the theme, it will likely take *some* additional ram or maybe even disk access or whatever.
17:33
warren: though i think the number of colors that will look good to the eye might be your limiting factor :)
17:34
<ogra_cmpc_>
warren, i havent run the greeter standalone since the python days, i use to develop by copying the theme bits in place on a running client and restart ldm
17:35
my themes should match 256 colors, they are ripoffs of the gdm themes
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17:39
<vagrantc>
but technically, going over 256 colors is or isn't feasible?
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17:50
<ogra_cmpc_>
gradients look odd at 16bit if you do
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17:58* vagrantc wonders if the default theme has too many colors, then.
17:58
<vagrantc>
well, too many shades of blue
17:59
it doesn't look awful, but it would be nice if it were less grainy
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21:35
<hari>
hi friends...
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21:36
<hari>
i am using ubuntu gutsy for ltsp. my server using VGA card ATI Radeon X1550. do I have installed the vga card for my clients?
21:36
rgds
21:37
I mean do I habve install the same vga card for my clients?
21:45
<sutula>
hari: No
21:45
<johnny_>
no
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21:47* sutula is beginning to suspect that johnny follows him :)
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