IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 20 December 2018   (all times are UTC)

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12:42
<alkisg>
!cheap-client
12:42
<ltsp>
cheap-client: https://www.gearbest.com/tv-box-c_11262/?attr=2081-1279
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15:33
<||cw>
those touch screen boxes look interesting
15:47
<mwalters>
alkisg: I'm planning on cloning my lab ltsp server VM when I do my updates. I'm going to need to run ltsp-update-sshkeys on each of clones once I reconfigure their IPs, correct?
15:47
<alkisg>
no
15:47
<mwalters>
that's not a thing anymore?
15:47
<alkisg>
I fixed that around 4-5 years ago
15:50
<mwalters>
can I remove it from: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Commands ?
15:50
or just note it as deprecated
15:51
<alkisg>
It's not deprecated
15:51
It's just not needed when you change ip
15:51
As it's using a hostname now
15:51
The hostname is always the same, "server", so ltsp-update-sshkeys is needed only once when you build the chroot etc
15:51
And it's ran automatically
15:52
<mwalters>
oh
15:52
oic
15:52
nvm
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18:08
<josefig>
hello guys, i'm having a issue with my ltsp server, it dropps the connection of nbd_server but I'm not sure why, the syslog is http://pasted.co/af047d38 and I don't see any problem, they are connected to a gigabit switch
18:09
http://pasted.co/d5c19ced <- full log
18:11
<vagrantc>
hrm. that paste service doesn't show me any content
18:12
ah, javascript
18:13
josefig: what do you mean by drops connection? ldm has a process that by default opens a connection to the nbd server and disconnects just to check if there's a new image version
18:13
<josefig>
maybe at that situation the connection drops, but there is no new image version
18:14
<vagrantc>
what is the issue you're seeing?
18:14
<josefig>
vagrantc, the computer hangs and the person cannot do anything and must restart the ltsp client I use fat client
18:14
should I try with thin client ?
18:15
<vagrantc>
ok
18:15
i don't recommend thin clients anymore, no
18:16
what distro and version?
18:16
!ltsp-info
18:16
<ltsp>
ltsp-info: please run ltsp-info and paste the output to http://ltsp.pastebin.com
18:17
<vagrantc>
oh, i guess ltsp.pastebin.com is dead
18:18
ltsp: learn ltsp-info as please run ltsp-info and paste the output to https://pastebin.com and post the link here
18:19
!learn ltsp-info as please run ltsp-info and paste the output to https://pastebin.com and post the link here
18:19
<ltsp>
The operation succeeded.
18:19
<vagrantc>
!ltsp-info
18:19
<ltsp>
ltsp-info: (#1) please run ltsp-info and paste the output to http://ltsp.pastebin.com, or (#2) please run ltsp-info and paste the output to https://pastebin.com and post the link here
18:19
<vagrantc>
!forget ltsp-info 1
18:19
<ltsp>
The operation succeeded.
18:19
<vagrantc>
!ltsp-info
18:19
<ltsp>
ltsp-info: please run ltsp-info and paste the output to https://pastebin.com and post the link here
18:20
<josefig>
ok let me try
18:20
I use ubuntu 18.04 LTS 64
18:20
oh, maybe the image is the problem because the PC is core 2 duo the pcu
18:21
<vagrantc>
how's that?
18:21
!ppa
18:21
<ltsp>
I do not know about 'ppa', but I do know about these similar topics: 'sbalneav-ppa', 'greek-schools-ppa'
18:21
<vagrantc>
!greek-schools-ppa
18:21
<ltsp>
greek-schools-ppa: https://launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr/+archive/ppa/ supports LTS Ubuntu releases with newer LTSP versions, bug fixes etc
18:21
<vagrantc>
josefig: are you using that ^^
18:22
<josefig>
https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/zFM4WD7gkX/
18:22
I'm using greek-schools-ppa
18:22
<vagrantc>
looks like it, yeah
18:23
<josefig>
I followed this gude, everything goes well only not that freeze pc http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation/Ubuntu
18:23
i thought maybe the issue is related with the cpu arch, I could try with a chroot images for amd64 and i386
18:23
<vagrantc>
a core 2 duo should run amd64 fine
18:24
does it hang in the same place every time?
18:27
or is it a bit random?
18:27
is it a single machine, or several different machines?
18:31
<josefig>
is a bit random but in couple of pcs only
18:31
not always and not in all
18:32
yes afaik the core 2 duo should run amd64
18:32
i have my own terminal and it works good enough
18:32
could be the pc ?
18:32
<vagrantc>
maybe
18:32
<josefig>
or even the eth cable
18:32
<vagrantc>
memtest, check network cables, etc.
18:33
<josefig>
yes i'll do that, i'm getting the memtest iso to review that pc
18:33
<vagrantc>
swap network cables with a machine that was working fine, maybe
18:33
see if the problem follows the machine or the cable
18:33
<josefig>
yes, i'll try that first
18:33
I will build a call center with LTSP wish me good luck :P
18:34
<vagrantc>
glad to hear about people making use of it!
18:34
<josefig>
the cheapest solution i found
18:34
and you know, you can escalate many fat clients
18:34
<vagrantc>
yeah, fat clients are pretty light load on the server
18:35
<josefig>
for example for 200 terminals what would be like a good specs for hardware? fat clients all
18:35
<vagrantc>
and there are ways to make it even lighter, e.g. NFS for homedirs instead of sshfs
18:35
<josefig>
I use homedirs using NFS and work great
18:35
<vagrantc>
it really depends on the use ...
18:36
if they're using applications that write and/or read a lot to home vs. things that are CPU intensive, etc.
18:36
<alkisg>
(08:09:25 μμ) josefig: http://pasted.co/d5c19ced <- full log ==> that's normal, ltsp client checks if there's a new nbd image, it shouldn't be related to the hanging error
18:37
<josefig>
vagrantc, I understand
18:37
alkisg, ok so could be related to the pc or the network
18:37
<alkisg>
Or graphics drivers
18:37
<josefig>
ah! gotcha
18:37
<alkisg>
E.g. nvidia cards hang with 3d unless you enable page flipping
18:37
<josefig>
is there a way to see the log any part?
18:38
page flipping on kernel?
18:38
<alkisg>
What graphics cards do those clients have?
18:38
lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA
18:38
<josefig>
let me confirm
18:41
my terminal has > Intel Corporation Atom Processor Z36xxx/Z37xxx Series Graphics & Display [8086:0f31] -> Kernel Driver in use: i915
18:41
Let me confirm the other pc
18:43
<vagrantc>
been a long time since i've used GPUs other than intel on x86 systems
18:45
<alkisg>
Xorg no longer prefers the intel driver, they're using the "modesetting" driver instead, and it has real issues with 16 bit color depth
18:45
Other than that, intels are fine
18:45
<vagrantc>
ah
18:45
fat clients don't generally do 16-bit color, though
18:46
<alkisg>
Yes, no problem there
18:48
<mmarconm>
Hi all
18:50
<josefig>
alkisg, so, should I blacklist the i915 ?
18:51
<alkisg>
no, it's probably not to blame
18:51
<mmarconm>
josefig: how many pcs do intend to use with ltsp ?
18:52* vagrantc has gone almost three weeks without using an x86 system ... but time to bump the ltsp version
18:52
<josefig>
mmarconm, on my dev team they are 7 right now but increasing to 5 more .. now the call center is intending to have 200 terminals
18:52
<vagrantc>
can't hardly test that on an arm64 VM ... really.
18:52
<alkisg>
(so check networking and hardware, like you already said)
18:52
<mmarconm>
josefig: i am using 30 terminals fat client with ldap auth, bug good to know
18:53
its for school purpose or company ?
18:53* alkisg has set up a call center with 100+ terminals and multiseat
18:53
<alkisg>
(over ltsp, of course)
18:53
<josefig>
alkisg, the other pc uses Lenovo XEON E3-1200 V2/3rd Gen Core processor Graphics Controller Kernel driver in use: i915
18:54
nice, the call center is a very good market
18:54
<alkisg>
multiseat = ltsp clients have 2 graphics cards, 2 headsets, and 2 monitors
18:54
<mmarconm>
alkisg: using ssd disk for images ?
18:55
<alkisg>
There's only one disk on the ltsp server
18:55
ssd, but one
18:55
<mmarconm>
multiseat =( i hat then, a least here in brazil they sucks
18:55
<alkisg>
It doesn't matter much for ltsp...
18:55
<josefig>
alkisg, what is multiseat ?
18:55
<vagrantc>
alkisg: was multiseat worth the trouble?
18:55
<josefig>
mmarconm, are you located in Brazil ?
18:55
we're developing a software for call center :)
18:56
<mmarconm>
josefig: basicly a harware thats allow you to use one cpu and 2, 3, 4 monitor and mouse, keyboard etc..
18:56
josefig: yes, i am from brazil
18:57
<vagrantc>
i guess multiseat means that many fewer machines consuming watts and putting out heat...
18:58
<josefig>
ah I see
18:59
<mmarconm>
the weekend i will setup a samba + ad for auth ltsp users and win users, smb share etc... god help me
18:59
<josefig>
nice
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19:18
<alkisg>
mmarconm: that's the bad multiseat; the good one is using upstream xorg/logind/systemd
19:18
vagrantc: multiseat is good for newly bought hardware, yeah
19:18
It runs without glitches
19:19
It's also cheaper since you only need to buy half the machines
19:19
And, the os is shared, so there's a bit of ram savings involved. Not much.
19:19
...and a bit of network bandwidth shared
19:20
So currently, it can be implemented with just a few lines in lts.conf, so it's rather easy
19:21
<vagrantc>
didn't even think of the extra hardware costs
19:22
<alkisg>
xorg/systemd/logind doesn't yet support dual head graphics cards properly though; it's best if you use the onboard + a pci-e one
19:22
<vagrantc>
i presume that means a few lines in lts.conf per ltsp client
19:22
<alkisg>
No, just a [multiseat] section is enough
19:22
<vagrantc>
wow
19:22
good work, as usual :)
19:22
<alkisg>
;)
19:23
I had to compromise with the usb ports like this: even ports => seat 1, odd ports => seat 2, and then people would have to remember them or use markers
19:23
That's much easier for the sysadmin, and it automatically gives one front port to each seat, etc
19:23
<vagrantc>
so only works for a two-seat multiseat
19:24
<alkisg>
Oh, one can use "modulo 3" instead in that logic
19:24
<vagrantc>
presuming it has the usb ports :)
19:24
<alkisg>
It's just my lts.conf that's configured for module 2
19:24
<vagrantc>
right
19:24
<alkisg>
Newer systems have 6-8 ports so they're usually enough
19:25* vagrantc wonders how it works with usb hubs
19:25
<vagrantc>
e.g. keyboard with usb hub and mouse connected to the keyboard
19:25
<mwalters>
alkisg: could probably use a powered up, set up closer to where the monitor/keyboard are for that seat
19:25
s/up/hub
19:26
<alkisg>
Sure they can easily do that without sysadmin/programmer involvement
19:26
<mwalters>
:D
19:26
<alkisg>
I split the pc ports; so a hub then belongs to a seat
19:26
<vagrantc>
got it
19:26
<alkisg>
...but of course it's just about one lts.conf line; that can be easily configured otherwise
19:26
<vagrantc>
right
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21:39
<mmarconm>
Lubuntu 18.04 is a good choice for ltsp ?
21:40
<quinox>
it's an excellent choice
21:41
LTS and you're good to go for the next 3 years
21:41
<mmarconm>
i was thinkin maybe kde, or mate
21:41
<quinox>
oh
21:42
doesn't matter
21:42
<mmarconm>
but, i like lxde for ltsp
21:42
<quinox>
I have awesome, KDE and Mate in my installation, it's all fine
21:42
<mmarconm>
yes, i tested with kde and mate, lxqt, everything works fine
21:42
<quinox>
well except KDE, they seem to have some long-standing bugs that just don't get fixed, but that's not my problem
21:43
but that's an KDE issue, not LTSP
21:43
<mmarconm>
Yep, now lubuntu maybe going to use lxqt
21:43
<quinox>
oh and fucking Mate screwing with my browser settings
21:44
I have a script called "99-fix-fucking-stupid-mate.sh" that I run inside my chroot to delete their bullshit
21:44
<mmarconm>
i configured the users when logout to reset the home, works better on lxde
21:44
ahaha
21:44
<quinox>
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mate/+bug/1605887
21:45
<mmarconm>
quinox: its possible tu use like a ltsp cluster, 2 3 ltsp servers to host the same fat clients ?
21:45
if u understand what i mean
21:45
<quinox>
I don't know if there is a standard way of doing that, but that should be fine
21:46
the booting happens over TFTP via DHCP, so you can change that to make it send people to different servers
21:46
<mmarconm>
ahhh XD
21:46
<quinox>
the LTSP image can be scp'ed between the servers no problem
21:47
you'll end up with different people's homes on different servers, which might be a bit annoying
21:47
unless you turn /home/ on those servers into some network file system mount, but I don't know if that's a good idea
21:47
<mmarconm>
quinox: i configured samba + ad, i have one at local, and another the main samba ad at amazon aws
21:48
like a roamin profile
21:49
<quinox>
you could also go the route of having standalone LTSP servers, orchestrated via puppet / chef / ansible / salt / whatever
21:49
you got many many many clients ?
21:49
<mmarconm>
50 clients
21:50
more 20 with windows
21:51
<quinox>
I have my LTSP setup / maintenance completely automated, even though I only have 1 server
21:51
<mmarconm>
quinox: where do u use ltsp, at school, like education ?
21:51
<quinox>
at my work
21:51
<mmarconm>
good to know
21:51
Here in brazil, almost no one know lsts or ethernet boot
21:52
<quinox>
up to 10 people, 1 server is more than enough for now
21:52
<mmarconm>
gigabit ethernet ?
21:52
<quinox>
yup
21:52
<mmarconm>
Ubuntu server ?
21:52
<quinox>
yup
21:53
<mmarconm>
without desktop i imagine
21:53
<quinox>
I inherited the installation, I managed it for the last 8 years, I suspect it's about 10 years now that we've used it
21:54
the server is a standard 1U server, SSDs in RAID for storage, hooked up via gigabit
21:54
it doesn't run a GUI
21:54
and I only have fat clients
21:54
<mmarconm>
the users account its created at server ?
21:54
<quinox>
(thin clients are on their way out in general, it's not advisable to use them)
21:54
LDAP
21:54
<mmarconm>
ahhhh openlad ?
21:54
<quinox>
eeeuh yeah probably
21:55
<mmarconm>
ahhahah, me too but with samba + ad, coz i have windows 10 too
21:55
each group with your folder bla bla bla
21:56
i setup ltsp with docker too, works like a charm
21:56
<quinox>
nice
21:56
I use VirtualBox from time to time, works great
21:57
for testing newer versions without disrupting my real server
21:57
I set up a VM as server, boot another VM as clients to test it; when that works I reconfigure my DHCP to send some real clients to my VM server
21:58
<mmarconm>
i wanna make a docker-compose to up all setup for ltsp server, just download and start and done
21:58
everything configured
21:58
yes, i am doing this right now with virtulbox
22:02
<||cw>
I just only run VMs
22:03
kvm is pretty solid, add virt-manager from a desktop and it's super easy to manage too
22:04
<quinox>
I have a few services running in Docker, I find it a pain in the ass
22:04
(unrelated to LTSP, just for your info)
22:07
<||cw>
I have a couple docker things in VMs, and I agree. docker seems great for "hands off" things that you manage via apis and web tools, and a pain for things you need to get in a tweak
22:07
<mmarconm>
i am build a docker manager for ltsp using python + django
22:08
<||cw>
that sounds handy
22:08
tho I think docker seems a bit odd for ltsp since it's designed to basically clone the OS, it's not just an application/service
22:09
<mmarconm>
be back later, storm comming
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22:27
<josefig>
I found the problem of the pcs' hangs
22:28
:)
22:28
coming from the chrootless image, i found with chroot image and worked awesome with mate
22:29
because it had couple of servers on the server as I use it for development, mea culpa
22:34
<vagrantc>
what was the issue?
22:44
<||cw>
josefig: if it's just extra services starting on the clients, there's an exclude option when you build the client
22:45
<josefig>
hello ||cw can you please help me with an example of that? sorry for too many questions, I'm newbie maybe a reference could be good.
22:45
<||cw>
!install
22:45
<ltsp>
install: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation/Ubuntu for Ubuntu, or http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation for other distributions
22:47
<||cw>
not at my server so i can't check
22:49
maybe not he best way, but add the service script file names to /etc/ltsp/ltsp-update-image.excludes ?
22:50
I thought there was an easier way, online man pages aren't revealing that
22:50
vagrantc: isn't there a command to exclude service by name?
22:50
not just files?
22:55
<vagrantc>
RM_SYSTEM_SERVICES
22:56
in lts.conf
22:56
<josefig>
ah I see
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23:51
<mmarconm>
and, i am back :)