IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 6 May 2014   (all times are UTC)

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05:33
<vagrantc>
w 4
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12:24
<gp>
Will USB speakers work with LTSP clients?
12:28
Or maybe a USB sound card
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12:50
<jmilot>
Hi, i have some problem with sound
12:51
I search why sometimes sound works and why sometimes not
12:52
the problem appears only with one thin client
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12:55
<||cw>
gp_: as long as the client has a driver for it, I don't see why not
12:57
<jmilot>
the sound doesn't work every time
12:57
i don't knwo what to do to solve this problem
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13:13
<jmilot>
could it be link to a bug in debian ?
13:17
<gp_>
thanks
13:26
<||cw>
jmilot: is the sound driver on the client itself working every time?
13:26
<jmilot>
how i can see it ?
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13:28
<||cw>
try to play a sound locally? used to be able to cat /dev/random to a dsp device and get white noise. been years since i have to diag sound issues though
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13:31
<jmilot>
i have this :
13:31
root@ltsp466:/dev/snd# ls by-path controlC0 hwC0D2 pcmC0D0c pcmC0D0p pcmC0D1p pcmC0D2c seq timer
13:34
how i can cat to a dsp device ?
13:42
<||cw>
do you have speaker-test ?
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13:48
<Chap>
Is epoptes the current favorite for remote client viewing?
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14:01
<alkisg>
piet: hi
14:03
<jmilot>
i make this change : -L module-suspend-on-idle \ add in /usr/share/ltsp/ltsp-init-common, then after reboot sound works
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14:29
<willou>
hello
14:30
<sebd>
hello, topic proposal link is broken
14:32
<alkisg>
Hi, yeah the whole ltsp infrastructure lacks maintainers :)
14:33
<willou>
I just a question please, is possible to use ltsp without nfs for prevent to lag and networks break. I want a solution to simply load the file system and apps in RAM ( rdesktop, iceweasel, .. )
14:34
<alkisg>
willou: which distribution?
14:35
<willou>
Debian 7
14:36
<alkisg>
vagrantc has submitted a script that loads the nbd image in RAM
14:36
Check ltsp-trunk, and copy it to your initramfs
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14:39
<willou>
ok thank you, and where can I find the vagrantc script?
14:39
<alkisg>
!ltsp-trunk
14:39
<ltsp>
ltsp-trunk: The LTSP code is at https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk
14:41
<willou>
great thank you so much !!!!
14:41
<alkisg>
willou: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/view/head:/client/Debian/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-bottom/ltsp
14:41
if [ "$LTSP_NBD_TO_RAM" = "true" ]; then
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14:41
<sebd>
Last year I configured a Debian LTSP server for a max 15 current users organisation using XFCE4. Works fine. Now I am asked to install 2 distinct networks with about 70 current users each. I guess I should use the LTSP-Cluster project. But I see no evolution since 2010. Is the LTSP-Cluster project is still up ?
14:42
<alkisg>
I don't think it's maintained
14:42
Why not go for ltsp fat clients instead?
14:42
!fatclients
14:42
<ltsp>
fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
14:42
<sebd>
Ok let's check fatclients
14:43
<Chap>
Or *really* big servers :)
14:43
We have a few that don't blink at 20 users... but that's not 70.
14:43
(actually, our old server didn't blink at 20 users; the new one scoffs)
14:44
<alkisg>
!flash
14:44
<ltsp>
flash: Yes, flash sucks. An HD full screen 30 fps video needs 2.5 Gbps bandwidth (1920×1080×4×30)! Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try some flash replacing plugin like http://linterna-magica.nongnu.org
14:44
<alkisg>
It's hard to give 2 Gbps to each client....
14:44
<Chap>
True.
14:44
<alkisg>
Fat client have big benefits over thin ones
14:44
<Chap>
alkisg: Dude yesterday afternoon was experiencing same NBD problem I was. Doesn't look like he said much after I had to log off.
14:45
I still think it's NBD related b/c a restart of the NBD server fixes the issue.
14:45
(but since I can't get NBD transactionlog to work I don't know what to file iun the bug)
14:45
<alkisg>
Chap: net-eth0.conf is created when you get an IP
14:45
NBD is much later on
14:46
<Chap>
The evidence is to the contrary :(
14:46
<alkisg>
The problem is that /run/net-eth0.conf isn't there.
14:46
So, that surely affects your nbd connection later on
14:46
If you don't have anything in /run, as you say, that's a very big issue
14:46
Don't expect the system to work with that
14:46
<Chap>
heh
14:47
<alkisg>
And then, sometimes you do have things there, so it's a race condition about /run
14:47
Don't even think of troubleshooting other things, before you solve that part...
14:48
<Chap>
Gotchya. I'll create an LTSP bug as "race condition with /run"
14:48
<alkisg>
Whatever
14:48
<Chap>
Fun. I have another doozy that I'm tracking down/reproducing; more in a bit.
14:48
<alkisg>
I don't think anyone will work on that if you file it in ltsp without proof that it's ltsp related
14:49
<Chap>
Can you suggest an alternate package? udev ?
14:49
<alkisg>
If you want to make sure it's not nbd related, just for you, just switch to NFS
14:49
It's very easy
14:49
<sebd>
For 15 current users, all thin clients, gigabit ethernet, 16 MB RAM, Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E31230 @ 3.20GHz and XFCE4 for all, server can manage as long as the users do not try watching more than one flash video at a time. I had issues with large LibreOffice files also. And large QGis files.
14:49
<alkisg>
sebd: what are you client specs? cpu, ram?
14:49
<Chap>
sebd: Yes to libre & flash; don't know QGis.
14:56
<sebd>
alkisg: client specs : disk-less fan-less Atom N2800 @ 1.86GHz, 2GB RAM
14:56
and old PCs too
14:57
+ occasional X2Go sessions from outside (ADSL)
14:57
<||cw>
N2800's not that much of a slouch, tried fat clients?
14:58
2GB might not be enough ram for gis though
14:59
<sebd>
Ok, I will go for fat clients, sounds simple.
15:00
<||cw>
worth evaluating anyway
15:01
<sebd>
||cw: I was wondering how is the X server graphical memory used by such apps (QGis, LibreOffice). Would 2 more GB RAM client-side change something ?
15:03
(still as thin clients only)
15:03
<Chap>
Can epoptes be used to connect to clients on a remote, accessible LTSP server?
15:07
<willou>
I'm add 4 line to script ( without if ) ltsp init but there is no change
15:07
<||cw>
sebd: depends on the workload. we use autocad on 2GB ram on some systems here, but the cad files are pretty small ones
15:11
<sebd>
Mmmm but maintaining fat clients means maintaining 2 application collections (thin on the server + fat in the chroot) - because I will need to keep the thin client option for the oldest PCs on the network. And for the X2Go remote sessions. I will need to keep them in sync so to avoid automatic Firefox version / extension version mismatches for example.
15:12
anyway, still the best option.
15:16
<||cw>
the fat can share the /home
15:16
<sebd>
not /usr
15:16
because it would also need /var and /etc
15:18
<||cw>
well, you /could/ ... technically...
15:21
<Chap>
For me, easy epoptes on remote LTSP server: ssh -X servername epoptes
15:21
<sebd>
I could share /usr and mount it on the fat clients, but what about /etc and /var ? Instictively I would say it would contain process-specific information such as /var/run. And host-specific-information such as /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-*
15:23
I guess nobody ever tried doing that.
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15:51
<||cw>
/var/run would be session specific, so you don't want to mount that. /etc doens't tend to change that much
15:51
<sebd>
ok
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15:55
<alkisg>
!ltsp-pnp | echo sebd:
15:55
<ltsp>
sebd: ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
15:55
<alkisg>
With ltsp-pnp ,you only install the applications once
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18:35
<shut2000>
Hi all
18:35
I'm sorry any speak russian?
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18:37
<shut2000>
ok - any body is here?
18:43
<alkisg>
!ask
18:43
<ltsp>
ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
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19:43
<elias_a>
alkisg: Απλά πράγματα είναι μερικές φορές τα πιο περίπλοκα αυτά ...
19:43
:D
20:28
<alkisg>
elias_a: haha, nice ;)
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21:25
<Ark74>
hi guys!
21:27
i'm having a weird issue, i have upgraded a 10/100 switch to a 10/100/1000, there is only one gigabit card on the network (besides the server) and that machine is the one with worst perfomance on a video streaming test
21:28
<||cw>
Ark74: did you enable the direct_x option?
21:28
<Ark74>
all the other 10/100 machines have a similar performance.
21:28
yep
21:28
<||cw>
LDM_DIRECTX=true, right?
21:28
<Ark74>
that's the onw
21:28
*one
21:29
<||cw>
k, what kind of video, and is the player app XV capable?
21:29
<Ark74>
i'm thinking if it could be flow control related, but it doesn't make sense
21:30
AFAIK, the performance should be the same as the 10/100 nics
21:30
<||cw>
the server nic is actually report 1G full duplex right?
21:30
<Ark74>
yeah its full duplex
21:30
<||cw>
and the client?
21:31
try a bandwidth test such as iperf?
21:31
<Ark74>
i used epoptes on a one-one test server client, and i gor speeds 980MBps
21:31
Mbps
21:32
thats gigabit speed, but when streaming is really bad :-/
21:32
i use vlc for both streaming and playing
21:32
and that machine has xv support
21:35
i missed the chance to do a iperf test with all the machines at the same time
21:35
maybe i could see the real speed that delivers to the gigabit nic when streaming
21:38
on the other hand i have a machine that is not xv capable, and that is a real pain in the .... to stream video, since it would use x11 to redender video
21:38
that generates a lot of traffic
21:40
||cw any advice when streaming video?
21:41
i'm thinking that maybe there is something lighter than vlc
21:46
<||cw>
mplayer is about as light as you can get, and with the -vo option you can force xv or any other .
21:46
generally, it's hard to make thin clients play video decently
21:48
<Ark74>
i like the way the screen on VNC/Epoptes is sincronzed on every machine, but it's difficult to get that with streaming
21:49
each macine handle the data differently so there are some delays from one to another
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21:51
<vagrantc>
use fat clients for streaming video... it's not realistic to use thin clients for video streaming.
21:51
or localapps
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21:51
<vagrantc>
unless the video is of very low quality, and even then...
21:51
<Ark74>
i'll go for localapps
21:52
fat clients admin like having to admin N number of machines
21:52
mplayer+localapps that should do it
21:52
<alkisg>
LTSP fat clients are the same, admin-wise, as LTSP thin clients
21:52
They're just "all localapps"
21:53
Still netbooted, diskless etc
21:53
<Ark74>
mmmm, i really should complete reading the docs, not only the things that i need :P
21:54
<alkisg>
!fatclients
21:54
<ltsp>
fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
21:54
<alkisg>
!ltsp-pnp
21:54
<ltsp>
ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
21:55
<vagrantc>
outside of LTSP, fat clients are sometimes referred to as disked machines, which is why i didn't like the term for use with LTSP
21:55
<Ark74>
still localapps will do it for it, as i've told before the machines on the network are really old
21:55
<alkisg>
Let's change the term then, many people do that mistake... :)
21:55
<vagrantc>
this comes down to finding a better term ...
21:56
<alkisg>
Thick?
21:56
<vagrantc>
i had proposed "Diskless Workstations" ... but disklessworkstations.com is kind of thin-client focused...
21:57
modest clients
21:57
<Ark74>
"modest" :)
21:57
<vagrantc>
sturdy clients
21:57
<alkisg>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diskless_node
21:58
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_client
22:05
<vagrantc>
that chart in Diskless_node sure spells it out
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