IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 1 November 2007   (all times are UTC)

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01:59
<edgarin>
Hi to all
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03:30
<kwak>
hi, i'm using k12ltsp 5 EL, anybody knows how to upgrade openoffice to the latest release?
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04:12
<mathesis>
se vagrantc
04:12
http://donmanolo2.sourceforge.net/ <<<<------------- good projecy
04:13
i want implement don manolo Point of Sale + LTSP :D
04:13
you know other apps?
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04:17
<vagrantc>
mathesis: only POS i know anything about is is4c
04:17
and then very little
04:17
mathesis: http://www.wedge.coop/is4c/
04:20
<mathesis>
vagrantc: is gpl isc4c?
04:20
<vagrantc>
mathesis: i don't know the exact liscense- it's open source
04:22
<mathesis>
vagrantc: i need isc4 in spanish :D
04:24
vagrantc: has instalado is4c con ltsp para produccion?
04:25
<vagrantc>
mathesis: no con ltsp
04:26
<mathesis>
IS4C became identified with the code which was then official released under the GNU GPL license.
04:26
vagrantc: con que?
04:27
<vagrantc>
mathesis: con installaciones con disco duros
04:28
<mathesis>
okas
04:29
vagrantc: conoces algun otro sistema interesante para complementarlo con ltsp?
04:29
<vagrantc>
mathesis: no
04:30
voy a dormir
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05:05
<osl>
I am trying to force dhcp3-server to assign a fixed address to a client , but it's not working , does this have anything to do with LTSP ?
05:07
cyberorg, ccherrett gu_ ibt joebaker Joris .. can anyone help ?
05:07
<cyberorg>
osl, yes ltsp keeps its dhcp configuration in /etc/ltsp, it annoyed me too :)
05:08
<osl>
cyberorg, OMG ! It killed me !
05:09
cyberorg, u saved me life ! thanx
05:09
<cyberorg>
osl, found it?
05:10
<osl>
cyberorg, yeah , i was editing /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf all the time :S
05:10
cyberorg, do u have any idea how can i force the DHCP server to read its settings from the original file ?
05:10
<cyberorg>
i dont understand what is the purpose of changing standard dhcpd.conf location, so on suse it is /etc/dhcpd.conf
05:11
osl, ln -s /path/to/original /ltsp's/path/file.conf
05:11
<osl>
cyberorg, that's tricky !
05:12
cyberorg, it should be set somewhere i guess ?!?!
05:12
<cyberorg>
osl, just linking the two files would ensure that there is only one copy
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07:26
<sonjag>
Good morning! Just looking for a bit of help here. I have exports set up so that 2 LTSP servers share one home folder location. It's been working for a few days now, but today, after a reboot of both servers, the export is not being mounted on the "client" server. I'm not sure what to check or what to look for. Any ideas?
07:27
<Blinny>
sonjag: What happens if you mount it manually?
07:28
<sonjag>
Blinny: I haven't tried because I'm nervous that I have users already logged in. They are "seeing" their home folders on the "client' server that are missing their files. If I manually mount, will it just transition over to the mounted home folders?
07:29
<Blinny>
Yes, it will.
07:30
<sonjag>
Blinny: No issues for the user? If not, is the command mount -a?
07:31
<Blinny>
mount -a mounts any unmounted entries in /etc/fstab
07:31
As far as 'issues for the user' that completely depends on your setup.
07:32
But, you can either do it now or do it later. :) If it's not 'just working' then you'll need to give it a try by hand to see what errors are being thrown.
07:32
<sonjag>
Blinny: Well, I just tried it and I'm going to go see how my users are doing... wish me luck :)
07:32
<Blinny>
Did it mount?
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07:45
<sonjag>
Blinny: mounted fine, but those who had files open couldn't save them to it, so we went to a flash drive and I'll load them later. But no death and destruction.... that's a good day :) Thanks for your help!
07:46
Blinny: Now for the longer term: why didn't it mount on reboot? Is there something I need to put in to make it mount?
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07:49
<Blinny>
What did you do to mount it manually?
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08:06
<sonjag>
Blinny: Sorry for the delay, had to help someone. I did mount -a. I do have the mount in fstab, so I thought it would mount automatically on boot.
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08:10
<sbalneav>
Morning all
08:11
<rhartman>
I keep getting a "not a valid image" error when i boot up my thin client, i'm running 5.0 on open suse 10.3, is there a way to manully create an image?
08:11
<sonjag>
Morning sbalneav :)
08:11
<sbalneav>
rhartman: cyberorg would be the fellow who could help you with that.
08:12
<cyberorg>
rhartman, how did you install?
08:12
<sbalneav>
morning sonjag
08:12
<cyberorg>
hi sbalneav
08:12
<sbalneav>
Hey cyberorg.
08:12
<rhartman>
using opensue's yast .ymp file
08:12
<cyberorg>
sbalneav, nice to read about local app :)
08:12
<rhartman>
*opensuse's
08:12
<sbalneav>
Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
08:13
\o/ for us
08:13
<cyberorg>
rhartman, followed this completely? http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP
08:13
<sbalneav>
We couldn't beleive we got it working so flipping easily!!
08:14
<cyberorg>
sbalneav, DS environment do work magic :)
08:14
<sbalneav>
ltspbot`: learn suse as You can find out about OpenSuSE's LTSP5 implementation at: http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP
08:14
<ltspbot`>
sbalneav: The operation succeeded.
08:14
<sbalneav>
!suse
08:14
<ltspbot`>
sbalneav: "suse" is You can find out about OpenSuSE's LTSP5 implementation at: http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP
08:14* Blinny applauds loudly
08:14
<cyberorg>
sbalneav, its spelt openSUSE
08:15
<sbalneav>
ah, oh, my apologies
08:15
<cliebow>
sbalneav:link to info om local app??
08:15
<rhartman>
yes, the setup appears to completing just fine, I have double checked all sysconfig settings, DHCP works fine, yet pxelinux.0 supplies a bad image
08:15
<sbalneav>
ltspbot`: forget suse
08:15
<ltspbot`>
sbalneav: The operation succeeded.
08:15
<sbalneav>
ltspbot`: learn suse as You can find out about openSUSE's LTSP5 implementation at: http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP
08:15
<ltspbot`>
sbalneav: The operation succeeded.
08:16
<sbalneav>
cliebow: At the moment, just the blog post.
08:16
<cliebow>
where??
08:16
<sbalneav>
and in bits and peices on my laptop
08:16
<cyberorg>
rhartman, pastebin your /srv/tftpboot/pxelinux.cfg/default
08:16
<sbalneav>
and of course on the ltsp-localapps page on launchpad.
08:16
<cyberorg>
and output of ll /srv/kiwi-ltsp
08:16
<Blinny>
cliebow: http://ltspthinclient.blogspot.com/2007/11/local-apps-2-next-morning.html
08:16
<sbalneav>
cliebow: Now that I have you, can we get laundry done on the island?
08:17
<cliebow>
there is a launromat in swh
08:17
<sbalneav>
I'll last to saturday, but I'll need to do a load then.
08:17
<cliebow>
or hell just use mine
08:17
<sbalneav>
Wonder if he's got a washer/dryer at the hotel?
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08:18
<cliebow>
ill find out..
08:18
<sbalneav>
You are my hero.
08:18
<cliebow>
i wish to be
08:20
yep:there are laundry facilities
08:20
at the Seawall
08:20
<sbalneav>
Awesomeissitude.
08:20
<rhartman>
k.. its at http://pastebin.com/m6c96d569
08:21
<cyberorg>
rhartman, are you sure there were no errors when you ran kiwi-ltsp-setup -s ?
08:22
<rhartman>
yes, no error were displayed during install. Are there logs that I should be taking a look at?
08:22
<cyberorg>
rhartman, check if linux and initrd exists in /srv/tftpboot/boot/ and ltsp image in /srv/kiwi-ltsp
08:23
rhartman, there should be 160M ltsp-suse-10.3.i686-0.0.2 in there
08:24
logs are onscreen and in kiwi-ltsp.log
08:25
<rhartman>
yeah my ltsp-suse.10.3.i686-.0.0.2 is only 80M
08:26
<cyberorg>
rhartman, hmm so the process has failed somewhere, you can enable LTSP_DEBUG="1" in /etc/sysconfig/kiwi-ltsp and build the image again
08:26
<rhartman>
i will give that a shot and report back
08:27
<cyberorg>
rhartman, make sure you have i586 DVD/iso mounted somewhere and use that as installation source
08:30
<rhartman>
yes, i have the DVD mounted and is pointed to in the kiwi-ltsp portion of sysconfig
08:30
<cyberorg>
rhartman, ok
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08:33
<moquist>
sbalneav is my hero.
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08:36
<sbalneav>
moquist: yeah, productive halloweeen!
08:37
<sonjag>
Hey all - I'm running a couple of edubuntu 7.04 servers. Both have xterminator installed but I'm not sure it's running. In any case, after a full day of running (yay! a whole day without a crash!! I set the bar low ;) I looked at top this morning to see that 5.2GB of 6GB on one server and 2 out of 3 on the other were being used, and they only had 2 users logged in combined, and those users weren't active. How can I t'shoot this? I hope this makes sense :)
08:38
<sbalneav>
Ram? Probably not a problem
08:38
Linux allocates free ram as a dynamically resized disk buffer
08:39
rather than just have ram sitting around "free", it allocates it to disk cache.
08:39
<sonjag>
Yes, RAM. Not a problem? Oh god, just read your second response... what does that mean?
08:39
<sbalneav>
Well, when you write or read to a disk, it keeps a copy in ram, to speed things up
08:40
run the "free" command.
08:40
like this:
08:40
<ogra>
sbalneav ROCKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
08:40
<sbalneav>
sbalneav@vger:~$ free total used free shared buffers cached
08:40
Mem: 506304 500300 6004 0 14212 210204
08:40
-/+ buffers/cache: 275884 230420
08:40
Swap: 1485972 0 1485972
08:40
You'll notice a huge amount of my ram goes to "cached"
08:40
that's the buffers
08:41
as you start to use more ram with user processes, it will just steal away some of the buffers, and use it for user processes.
08:41
so it always looks like you're using all your ram.
08:41
Which is a good thing. If you paid for it, you might as well use it for something :)
08:41
ogra: :)
08:42
<sonjag>
sbalneav: thanks :) you do rock. In top, it does have a buffers stat... same thing?
08:42
<sbalneav>
right, that's for network buffering, etc.
08:43
the IMPORTAND line is the second column of "swap"
08:43
You'll notice mine is "0"
08:43
That means I'm not swapping.
08:43
so long as THAT number is either 0, or a very low percentage of the total swap, then you're ok.
08:43
<sonjag>
This morning, I did see some swap on the 3G machine. I know I swap when kids are logged in at times. Should the swap clear itself out when users log out? Or does it just stay there?
08:44
<sbalneav>
yes, clears it'sef out.
08:44
<sonjag>
so something's not quite right if I have plenty of RAM but swap is still being used?
08:44
<sbalneav>
When you move to the -server kernel on the other machine, and get the full amount of memory, things will improve there too.
08:45
Well, a little swap isn't a problem (10-15%), but if you're using 50% of swap, something's eating ram.
08:45
<sonjag>
I built the NFS server yesterday and will try to get that up and running this weekend. Once that's up, I'll rebuild Mendel.
08:45
Mendel will then have server kernel
08:46
<sbalneav>
That will help
08:46
<sonjag>
So I think something's eating RAM, but Mendel's going to get rebuilt pretty soon so I won't worry.
08:47
<sbalneav>
if the 6 gig one's ok, and the 3 gig one's not, then I'd say that's a fair assessment
08:48
<sonjag>
My other issue this morning was that I rebooted both Mendel (serving the export) and Crick (mounting the export) is that Crick didn't get it's export automatically on reboot. I did a mount -a when I found out and all was fine, but why didn't it mount on reboot?
08:48
<sbalneav>
hm
08:49
<sonjag>
If Mendel boots slower than Crick and the export isn't ready when Crick looks for it, does it just fail or try again?
08:49
<sbalneav>
I'm assuming you let mendel completely boot before you rebooted crick?
08:49
It'll just fail
08:49
<sonjag>
That's gotta be it. When I have an NFS server that's always up (hah!) then this probably won't happen. Thanks!
08:59
<rhartman>
cyberorg: i have reinstalled using kiwi-ltsp-setup -s and have included the status of the installation at http://pastebin.com/d2692fb24, you can iqnore the DHCP error for which i have manually corrected it
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09:01
<jammcq>
sbalneav: hey, you around?
09:02
<rhartman>
cd ..
09:03
<jammcq>
ogra: ping
09:03
<cyberorg>
rhartman, looks ok, did it create 160mb image?
09:04
<rhartman>
yes 158M
09:05
i'm not so sure why it all of a sudden worked, i have compleated that same process multiple times
09:06
mc
09:07
<cyberorg>
coll, gotto go
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09:15
<sbartleylinux>
jammcq, hey there.
09:15
<sbalneav>
Back
09:15
<jammcq>
sbartleylinux: hey, you in boston?
09:15
<sbartleylinux>
yep
09:16
<jammcq>
sbartleylinux: hey, the docs you did for Edubuntu, did you use docbook for that?
09:16
sbartleylinux: having fun?
09:16
<sbartleylinux>
much fun.
09:16
learning massive amount.
09:17
docs for edubuntu??? was that for someone else?
09:17
<jammcq>
oop
09:17
<sbartleylinux>
:)
09:17
<jammcq>
that was for the other sba*
09:17
<sbartleylinux>
kinda thought so.
09:18
<jammcq>
sbalneav: hey, the docs you did for Edubuntu, did you use docbook for that?
09:19
<rhartman>
cyberorg:it appears to be working so far, I have booted my thin client, and it's displaying "Loading X.X.X.X:pxelinux.0 .." with a new dot added after some time..
09:20
<sbalneav>
jammcq: Yep
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09:28
<rhartman>
cyberorg : It now appears to read the image, no longer have the invalid image error, now it just hangs on "Loading x.x.x.x:pxelinux.0 ..."
09:28
<cyberorg>
rhartman, your dhcp ip etc might not be configured right
09:29
<rhartman>
alright, i'll give it a look over.
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09:47
<tempb0y>
morning all
09:48
anyone know of thin client that has a/v out for connection to TV?
09:51
<sbalneav>
I use via eden EPIA 5000's which have it, but I've never tried it.
09:55
<tempb0y>
ok. i want to try and run mythtv in ltsp and connect thin clients to it to play a/v throughout home
09:55
dvds, recorded shows, etc.
09:55
will it work with ltsp?
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09:56
<sbalneav>
No idea
09:56
I've never played with mythtv
09:56
GIYF
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09:59
<tempb0y>
giyf?
10:02
ahh google :)
10:02
thanks
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10:28
<sonjag>
moquist: you there? If so, how do you know if xterminator is running?
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10:41
<dtrask>
sonjag: one way is if the login process appears to be quite a bit longer
10:42
sonjag: try this....if you haven't done so....install htop
10:42
<moquist>
sonjag: hey dere
10:42
dere = "there" with a stuffy nose.... not "dear" :p
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10:42
<dtrask>
sonjag: once you have...let me know and I can show you how you can see xterminator in action
10:42
<moquist>
sonjag: ps auxwwf | grep xterminator
10:42
sonjag: do that while a user is logged in
10:43
sonjag: and/or log in a user123 on one terminal, and then log in as user123 on another terminal connected to the same server
10:44
<dtrask>
sonjag: a cool way to watch it work is to run htop focused on one user....not exactly sure of the syntax, but something like htop -u dtrask
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10:45
<dtrask>
sonjag: log in to a terminal as a user....open a bunch of stuff...firefox...openoffice...etc. Then shut off the terminal (to leave things hanging)....then turn it back on or move to another terminal connected to the same server
10:46
in terminal on another server run htop -u username (with the username you just used a min ago)
10:46
<moquist>
dtrask: too much work. just log in as the same user on two different terminals. *shrug*
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10:46
<dtrask>
sonjag: you should see the processes still running
10:48
keep it on where you can see it....log back in as the user and watch the processes die in real time on htop....Yes, it's more time consuming than moquists method, but gives you an actually visual picture of what is happening. In other words, PROOF ;-)
10:48* moquist thinks that a suddenly toasted login session is visual proof
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10:50* dtrask thinks that it only works if logged into same server again...in dhcp load balance that can sometimes be a crap shoot
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10:51* dtrask acknowledges that moquist is right, but my way is "funner"
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11:01
<rhartman_>
cyberorg: just to be clear on things, the host's TFTP server should be enabled, correct. This was disabled, which was causing the hang, now that TFTP is once again enabled i'm receiving the "not a valid image " again
11:02
<cyberorg>
rhartman_, kiwi-ltsp-setup -s enables tftp server too
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11:03
<cyberorg>
line 3551 in your paste: Starting INET services. (xinetd) done
11:04
<rhartman_>
correct.
11:04
<cyberorg>
rhartman_, can you pastebin /etc/dhcpd.conf and ifconfig
11:04
and also /etc/sysconfig/kiwi-ltsp
11:09
<rhartman_>
http://pastebin.com/d145a5b4a
11:11
<cyberorg>
rhartman_, is eth2 marked as internal device in firewall?
11:11
<rhartman_>
the firewall is turned off for that interface
11:12
<cyberorg>
can you walk me through the boot process on screen?
11:15
<moquist>
sonjag: sbalneav has a cleaner reimplementation of 'xterminator' that will be available soon. :)
11:16
<rhartman_>
thin client is turned on, states, " Probing...[RTL8139] Found Reltek 8139 ROM address 0x000 - ioaddr 0xe00, addrr (mac address) 10mps full duplex"
11:16
"Searching for server (DHCP)....
11:18
Me 192.168.167.100, Server: 192.168.167.254, Gateway 192.168.167.254 Loading `92.168.167.254:pxelinux.0 ...error: not a valid image Unable to load file <sleep>
11:18
then loops that same message multiple times
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11:18
<cyberorg>
rhartman_, hmm, try this : cp /usr/share/syslinux/pxelinux.0 /srv/tftpboot/
11:20
<rhartman_>
performed that , rebooted the thin client and still error message
11:20
<cyberorg>
remove /srv/tftpboot/pxelinux.0 first
11:21
<rhartman_>
k.
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11:22
<rhartman_>
still posting same error
11:22
<cyberorg>
does that read `92.168.167.254:pxelinux.0 ? or 192.168....
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11:23
<rhartman_>
192.168.167.254:pxelinux.0 .. sorry
11:24
<cyberorg>
rhartman_, what is ll /srv/tftpboot/boot ?
11:25
<rhartman_>
initrd 20M ..linux 1.6M ...linux.md5
11:27
<cyberorg>
rhartman_, here is my config http://pastebin.com/m2a69e693
11:27
<rhartman_>
alright.. give me a few to compare..
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11:36
<sonjag>
dtrask and moquist: thanks to you both (I went away for a bit... back now). I will install htop. I have many users logged in, so can I just pick one, or do they need to be logged out to see if this is working?
11:40
dtrask: I just tried it with a user who's logged in and see lots of stuff going on. I searched for xterminator and didn't see it. Should I see it when logged in?
11:40
moquist: I ran ps auxwwf | grep xterminator and only saw my ps search... I don't think xterminator is running.
11:40
<dtrask>
I'd use an account that you can log in and out and watch without messing with anyone else...up to your
11:47
<sonjag>
dtrask: I can do that... thanks... will try it.
11:53
<dtrask>
sonjag: keep up posted
11:59tux_440volt has quit IRC
11:59
<rhartman_>
cyberorg: after close comparison I can find no differences other then the internal IP's
12:00Q-FUNK has quit IRC
12:00
<cyberorg>
rhartman_, try reinstalling syslinux and copy new pxelinux.0
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12:16
<moquist>
sonjag: nope, it's not, then.
12:16
<rhartman_>
cyberorg: I will give that a try, but first I feel thats it important to mention that we did a 10.1 to 10.3 openSUSE upgrade on the host machine that was running ltsp 4.2 just fine. We feel we removed all the 4.2 packages manually Then attempted the install of 5... thats where we are now..
12:17
<sonjag>
moquist: how can I start it?
12:17
<cyberorg>
rhartman_, our ltsp5 implementation is nowhere close to replacing 4.2 :) what are your clients like?
12:18
rhartman_, our implementation works best with clients with 256MB ram
12:19
<rhartman_>
its a purpose built thin client from disklessworkstations.com
12:19
<cyberorg>
10.1 - > 10.3 is a huge jump, it is recommended that you do fresh 10.3 install, are client 256mb?
12:22
<rhartman_>
the clients have 128mb
12:22
they are TK-3350
12:24
<cyberorg>
rhartman_, it is quite difficult to boot 128 mb currently due to initrd size, hopefully we will cut it down soon
12:26
<rhartman_>
well then thats most likely my issue, correct?..
12:27putty_thing has quit IRC
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12:27
<cyberorg>
rhartman_, no, you should get past loading kernel and initrd at least
12:28
your client doesnt seem to get past pxelinux.0
12:29MagicStorm has quit IRC
12:29
<scrapbunny>
is there anyway to improve internet speed on thin clients using edubuntu 7.10?
12:29
<Blinny>
Is there any push to put all the ltsp-* programs under a gui umbrella, I'm thinking combined with the update manager when new client kernels are available?
12:29
scrapbunny: You mean, make your Internet downloads faster?
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12:32
<scrapbunny>
downloads and page loading. i have 3 thin clients running and firefox takes a long time to load. i am trying to set up a 32 station lab and understand the speed will be slower using thin clients but this is REALLY slow
12:36
<ZiXon>
running or starting?
12:36
firefox booting == slow
12:39
<scrapbunny>
is there a better browser for thin clients?
12:40
never mind, i don't want to give up firefox now that i got java, flash and sound working
12:40
<Blinny>
scrapbunny: There are a few possible causes. 1) Slow network -- IE, 10mpbs - especially if /home is served over NFS and firefox uses it for caching pages/images 2) Tunneling X traffic through SSH, which is now the default in 7.10 3) Slow server -- swapping, etc
12:41putty_thing has joined #ltsp
12:42
<scrapbunny>
i think the main cause might be that our slow is in the middle of switching from dsl to fiber
12:42
<rhartman_>
cyberrog : would it be worth reverting back to 4.2, or is 4.2 no longer supported?
12:43
<moquist>
sonjag: what does dpkg -l xterminator tell you?
12:44
(i.e., version)
12:44MagicStorm has joined #ltsp
12:45
<moquist>
sonjag: /etc/X11/Xsession.d/10-xterminator is what should start xterminator whenever anyone logs in
12:45
<ltsppbot>
"sonjag" pasted "dpkg -l xterminator" (6 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/338
12:46
<sonjag>
moquist: I pasted the results on the pastebot <http://pastebot.ltsp.org/338>
12:47
<moquist>
sonjag: yes, I saw them already :)
12:47
<rhartman_>
cyberorg : would it be worth reverting back to 4.2, or is 4.2 no longer supported?
12:47
<moquist>
sonjag: the version looks good; what does /etc/X11/Xsession.d/10-xterminator have in it?
12:48
<Blinny>
scrapbunny: Your network connection does not affect Firefox launching speed (time between clicking icon & window showing).
12:48
<cyberorg>
rhartman_, 4.2 is not being developed any more, but if it works well for you, keep running it
12:48
<sonjag>
moquist: did the dpkg results mean it's installed? I thought it meant it wasn't!
12:48
<moquist>
sonjag: yes, it is installed
12:49
<ltsppbot>
"sonjag" pasted "cat /etc/X11/Xsession.d/10-xterminator" (5 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/339
12:50
<rhartman_>
well it worked well, I didn't set it up, with the upgrade 4.2 was broke, so we figured 5 would be a simple install by looking at the documents
12:52
<cyberorg>
rhartman_, it is simple on a fresh install and client with 256ram :)
12:52
<sonjag>
moquist: it's posted...
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12:55
<moquist>
sonjag: that should be executing xterminator every time anyone logs into the GUI...
12:56
sonjag: ha ha! NM, xterminator is no longer persistent. You won't see it in the process list.
12:56
<rhartman_>
well then looks, like thats our next project, I want to thank you for all the help in solving this issue...it had me pretty lost..
12:56
<moquist>
sonjag: This changed and I forgot just now.
12:56
sonjag: The best test is to log into two TCs connected to the same server. The first session should be killed when the second session starts.
12:57
<scrapbunny>
sorry, misunderstood you :) launching of firefox is fine, loading a new page is slow
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13:00
<sonjag>
moquist: thanks. I will try that after school ends...
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13:04
<scrapbunny>
is there a way to import users into ltsp? I am trying to decide the best way to set up my 600 students that are in 26 classes. any ideas?
13:05
<cliebow>
your logins ARE the llogins of your server
13:09scrapbunny has left #ltsp
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13:30
<dtrask>
hey guys...trying to help someone on the edubuntu channel who wants to bulk-import/create regular users into an edubuntu server (not samba/ldap)....I'm familiar with webmin...does webmin still do this? Anyone have another suggestion?
13:31Egyptian[Home] has quit IRC
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13:32* Gadi is a bit bored - wanna write one?
13:34
<jammcq>
Gadi: did you drive up from NY ?
13:36shogunx has quit IRC
13:37
<Gadi>
jammcq: I did
13:37
I am now in Red Sox land
13:37
<jammcq>
ooooh, careful
13:37
<Gadi>
I know - head down, head down
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14:07
<cliebow>
dtrask:seems like it would be trivial to write a little program to append passwd directly/..
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14:11
<mhterres>
hello guys
14:13
I'm recieving this message when I try to login
14:13
This workstation isn't authorized to connect to this server
14:13
any ideas ?
14:13Egyptian[Home] has joined #ltsp
14:14
<Gadi>
sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys ; sudo ltsp-update-image
14:15
<mhterres>
hmmm
14:15
off course
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14:17
<mhterres>
Gadi: why this ?
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14:18
<mhterres>
Gadi: and if I update the sshkeys, mount the image and update the files ?
14:18
:-)
14:19
<Gadi>
mhterres: the error usually indicates that the server you are connecting to does not have the appropriate ssh keys in the chroot
14:19
(to make it a known host)
14:19
<mhterres>
great
14:20
but why do you use ssh ?
14:20
:-0
14:21
:-)
14:21
<sbalneav>
For security
14:21
<mhterres>
ok
14:22
Marlon asks: security of what ? :-)
14:22
<Gadi>
security, network transparency, client-server communications
14:22
seems ssh is becoming the backbone of ltsp
14:22
:)
14:22
<sbalneav>
The password
14:22
<Gadi>
security of keystrokes between client and server
14:22
<sbalneav>
And, to provide a tunnel that we can use to send commands from the client to the server
14:23
<Gadi>
with XDMCP, you send all text between client and server in the clear
14:23
incl every password you type from login to websites
14:23ogra has quit IRC
14:23
<mhterres>
but is the key associate with the IP ?
14:24
<Gadi>
the IP is a component of it
14:24
take a look at ssh
14:24
<mhterres>
ok, thanks :-)
14:24
<Gadi>
it has a better explanation than I could give
14:25
but, in our context, if you change the interface serving the thin clients on the server, you will prolly have to update the ssh keys
14:25
<sbalneav>
When you ssh into a host, unless you already have the host key, you get asked "Are you sure you want to connect to the host"
14:25
We put the server's host keys into the chroot so that they're sshing into a known host.
14:25ZiXon has quit IRC
14:25
<sbalneav>
So someone can't put a rogue host on the network for you to log into.
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14:26
<mhterres>
sbalneav: Yes, I know
14:27
<Gadi>
mhterres: you can undermine the security if you like, by setting StrictHostKeyChecking no on the client chroot
14:27
;)
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14:27
<MasterOne>
hi guys
14:27
<Gadi>
no one says you have to fear the man in the middle :)
14:27
<mhterres>
sbalneav: I guess our problem is exactly that we are deleting and making new keys, every time we generate a new ltsp server, so we need to update the keys
14:27
Gadi: :-)
14:27
<MasterOne>
I am new to LTSP5, but I am totally amazed by it :)
14:27
<sbalneav>
mhterres: Yup. you'll need to do that.
14:28
<cliebow>
MasterOne ive been in it six years and i am totally amazed by it..
14:28
<Gadi>
MasterOne: we have that effect on people
14:28
specailly if you lick the code
14:28
<MasterOne>
hehe
14:28
<Gadi>
it's trippy
14:29
<MasterOne>
Somebody with the knowledge about the insides care to answer some questions?
14:29
<sbalneav>
Soon as you ask 'em, we'll answer 'em.
14:29
<cliebow>
zazYou got the best of the bezst of thge best right here 8~)
14:30
<MasterOne>
Is it normal, that LDM crashes with a segmentation fault, if you enter a wrong password 3 times?
14:30
<Gadi>
thats a feature
14:30
:)
14:30
<cliebow>
hah
14:30
!!!
14:30
<ltspbot`>
cliebow: Error: "!!" is not a valid command.
14:30
<cliebow>
oh yeah!!
14:30
<sbalneav>
It's a bug, we'll have to fix it.
14:30
<MasterOne>
so I should not worry about it (using Edubuntu 7.10)?
14:30
<sbalneav>
But it recycles like it should anyway, it just shouldn't segfault.
14:31
<MasterOne>
ok
14:31
<sbalneav>
No, it still does what it should, restart the login.
14:31
<MasterOne>
is it possible to change the language of LDM (it always starts in English)?
14:31
<sbalneav>
No
14:31
No one's done localization yet
14:31
It'll be done for hardy
14:32
<MasterOne>
ok, no problem then (just wasn't sure if I missed some config file)
14:33
how would you setup fast user switching on a thin client (the new user switcher applet, that's started by default in *ubuntu 7.10 doesn't work in that case of course)?
14:34
<sbalneav>
The fast user switcher won't work with thin clients, due to the way they work fundamentally.
14:34
<MasterOne>
I know
14:35
<sbalneav>
Quite frankly, I doubt it ever will, on a thin client, anyway. They handle logins functionally differently.
14:35* Gadi notes to bring up to ogra disabling applet by default
14:37
<sbalneav>
brb
14:37
<MasterOne>
if there is no other intended way, I guess the best approach is to just start more than one LDM session, and then swap through with alt+F**
14:37sbalneav has quit IRC
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14:39
<MasterOne>
Is it possible to use the additional buttons on mice with more then 3 buttons + 1 scrollwheel?
14:40
<Gadi>
MasterOne: sure - thats an X config
14:41
<MasterOne>
Gadi, but how are the functions for extra buttons be managed (like thumb buttons for forward/backward functionality in firefox, which I formerly only could get to work using imwheel on a normal workstation)?
14:41Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
14:42
<Gadi>
MasterOne: I have never used imwheel, but if its an X client app, you should be able to run it on the server
14:43
<MasterOne>
how about keyboards with extra-buttons?
14:43
<Q-FUNK>
hoi!
14:44
<Gadi>
MasterOne: similar idea - as long as the xserver loads the right keymap...
14:44
X is network transparent
14:45
it just takes some thinking of what is a client app to X and what is an X server config
14:45
Q-FUNK: hey
14:45
I brought my Thincan to Boston with me
14:45
<Q-FUNK>
oh good
14:45
i was wondering about that :)
14:45
<Gadi>
I knew you would be
14:46
maybe we'll get a chance to hack on it a bit
14:46ogra has joined #ltsp
14:46
<Q-FUNK>
the OLPC/AMD guys are sending someone to UDS to fix the last remaining buglets with X.org
14:46
<Gadi>
hmm... is that Bryce?
14:46
<Q-FUNK>
we should get a really nice -amd driver soon
14:46
<Gadi>
I met him for all of 2 secs
14:46
<Q-FUNK>
Bryce is the Ubuntu X maintainer
14:46
<Gadi>
ah
14:46
<Q-FUNK>
he's also in
14:47
AMD/OLPC are sending a guy called Bernie, whose mission is to find Bryce in the whole lot
14:47
<Gadi>
heh
14:47
maybe I can find him
14:48
<Q-FUNK>
I guess they meant Bernardo Innocenti
14:49
<MasterOne>
is there any way to check the X server setup on the thin client, except logging into the thin client using the console on SCREEN_1? and any experience with hardware video acceleration?
14:49
<Q-FUNK>
Gadi: did you bring the PXE or LinuxBIOS version?
14:50Blinny has quit IRC
14:51
<Q-FUNK>
the AMD guys are especially fond of the LinuxBIOS+Etherboot version.
14:51
<Gadi>
ah, no
14:51
I brought PXE
14:51
MasterOne: right now, that is the way
14:52
<Q-FUNK>
Gadi: ah. well, anyhow, please show it to Bryce and to Bernie. this might be all it takes to get them to hack the missing bits to get clean X support using the -amd driver.
14:53
<Gadi>
will do
14:53
as soon as I find them ;)
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14:54
<MasterOne>
what's a recommended RAM size on the thin client, considering the RAMdisc that's used by the thin client setup and the X server caching / "Firefox" issue (something with very large pictures crashing the thin client session)?
14:54
<Gadi>
I would say 128MB
14:55
<MasterOne>
so with 128MB RAM there will be no issues with crashing do to apps like firefox or evince?
14:55
<Gadi>
tho, with NBD_SWAP, the goal is to support clients with 32MB+
14:55
MasterOne: with 128MB there will almost never be issues
14:55
there are always corner cases
14:55
<MasterOne>
is NBD_SWAP switched on by default?
14:55
<Gadi>
(no such thing in life as 'never')
14:56
hmm... I believe it may be in Gutsy
14:56* Gadi forgets what the final call was on that
14:57
<Gadi>
brb
14:57
<MasterOne>
is it save to just switch off the thin client, instead of first logging out, and then shutting down?
14:59
<ogra>
NBD_SWAP is switched on by default if the initramfs detects that it runs on a client with less than 48M
15:00
<MasterOne>
ogra, so would you say, 128MB is enough to prevent issues with apps like firefox or evince?
15:00
<ogra>
no
15:00
these issues arent solvable with adding ram
15:00
you just delay the moment of breakage with that
15:01
<MasterOne>
I have read this issue will be solved in firefox 3
15:01
<ogra>
it doesnt fix the bug in firefox/Xserver design
15:01
its supposed to, yes
15:01
but until then the issue is there
15:01
<MasterOne>
but what's the recommended RAM size, without considering the future fix of that software problem?
15:01
<ogra>
adding more ram to the client helps to make it break later but wont solve it
15:03
<cliebow>
Gadi: you gonna make it Maine??
15:03
<MasterOne>
still unsure about the amount of RAM to use in my thin clients
15:03
ogra, what would you recommend?
15:04bobby_C has quit IRC
15:04
<Gadi>
cliebow: wouldnt miss it for the world
15:04
<ogra>
128 is usually decent (i never had the mentioned FF issue personally.... but then i dont browse sites with 200M of images)
15:05
<Gadi>
at least there I get clothing thats more my size
15:05
:)
15:06
<MasterOne>
is more RAM to be considered, if the integrated graphics card uses shared memory?
15:06
<cliebow>
hmmm..not so sure whhat that means..but....fair enough..
15:08
<MasterOne>
guys, I have just a few questions left, so please stick with me ;)
15:08elisboa has quit IRC
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15:10
<ogra>
MasterOne, it doesnt really matter on a thin client since the biggest amount of ram is anywayx used for X there
15:11
<MasterOne>
is there any difference when thinking about the size of video memory for a thin client, compared to a normal workstation (considering that modern graphics cards have 128 or 256 MB of Video RAM, but I am gonna use a mobo with sis shared video memory)=
15:13
I mean, would it make any sense to go for 256 MB RAM due to the fact, that the integrated video card has no own memory?
15:16mhterres has left #ltsp
15:17
<MasterOne>
if going for an addon graphics card, does it matter if ATI or nVidia for hardware acceleration (I've only seen that page in the ltsp.org wiki talking about adding the proprietary nVidia drivers to an LTSP 4.1.1 system, but couldn't find anything concerning ATI and a hardware accelerated setup on LTSP5)?
15:18
ogra & Gadi, still here?
15:19
<Gadi>
MasterOne: I believe that question is more a general one about hw accel with ati/nvidia rather than ltsp specific
15:20
not sure about specifics for specific cards
15:20
<MasterOne>
ok
15:20
<Gadi>
suffice it to say, if you can get it working on a regular PC running Ubuntu, you can get it working on the thin client
15:21
<MasterOne>
so should I go for 256 MB RAM due to the fact, that the integrated video card has no own memory?
15:22
<Gadi>
it shouldnt matter too too much
15:22
unless you plan on using LOTS of memory for video only
15:22
but, that may be a waste
15:23
<MasterOne>
my plan is to use a thin client on a 1920x1200 LCD monitor
15:23
<Gadi>
the amount of vid mem you need is largely related to the resolution and color depth
15:23
ok
15:23
16 bit color?
15:24
<MasterOne>
(1920*1200*24)/8= 6,912 MB
15:24
24 bit color
15:24
<Gadi>
right
15:24
<MasterOne>
doesn't seem much of a difference
15:24
wasn't sure if that calculation is all that matters
15:25
<Gadi>
and how many graphical sessions...
15:25
<MasterOne>
most likely 2
15:25
<Gadi>
so, prolly good to reserve 16MB for vid mem
15:25
at least
15:25
<MasterOne>
has this to be setup explicitly?
15:26
or is vid mem allocation done automatically?
15:26
I guess more than 128 MB RAM is pretty much pointless on a thin client then
15:26
<Gadi>
usually in the BIOS
15:26
with an integrated video chip
15:27
<MasterOne>
ah yes, of course (never had a mobo with integrated video before)
15:27
ok, two more important questions
15:27sonjag has quit IRC
15:28
<MasterOne>
is it save to just switch off the thin client, instead of first logging out, and then shutting down?
15:28
<Gadi>
MasterOne: that depends on the desktop
15:28
gnome will usually leave hanging processes if you dont at least log out first
15:28sonjag has joined #ltsp
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15:28
<Gadi>
but, you can install a script to kill old processes upon login
15:29
to mitigate the effects
15:29
(see: moquist's xterminator)
15:29
<MasterOne>
ok, so better to logoff
15:29
<Gadi>
yup
15:30
<MasterOne>
but once logged off, does it make any difference, if I just switch off the thin client, instead of choosing "shutdown" from the LDM menu?
15:30
<Gadi>
nope
15:30
its a readonly filesystem
15:30sbalneav has joined #ltsp
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15:32
<MasterOne>
is there any way, to keep the user session on the server running if logging out, to be able to return to the same session on next login (like something with "screen")?
15:33
<Gadi>
ah, thats a tricky (and long desired) thing
15:33
NX does this
15:33inkarri has left #ltsp
15:33
<Gadi>
but at the expense of lots of caching
15:33
<MasterOne>
it would be so cool if there would be just an option to set, if the session should be closed or kept alive on logout
15:33
<Gadi>
you need a caching Xproxy
15:34
right
15:34
but, its more involved
15:34
<MasterOne>
anybody ever succeeded with a LTSP5 setup?
15:34
<Gadi>
so, the short answer is no, not yet
15:34
:)
15:34
<MasterOne>
hmpf
15:35Arauto has quit IRC
15:36
<Gadi>
also, session persistence would most likely come at the expense of video performance
15:36
at least inititally
15:36
but, that may be fine for most
15:37
<MasterOne>
it's not a must have, but actually I am pretty used to that behavior, because on my laptop I never logout, but just suspend & resume
15:39
Gadi, I am just reading about xterminator
15:39
what's the main purpose that program has been written for?
15:40vlt has left #ltsp
15:40
<MasterOne>
"If your users depend on cron jobs, ssh sessions, or any other type
15:40
of persistent process that runs before, after, or outside
15:40
a graphical login session, then xterminator will kill those
15:40
processes, too."
15:41
<Gadi>
its meant to kill lingering processes that may not die properly upon logout
15:41
(bec the desktop didnt clean up after itself, etc)
15:42
<sonjag>
I would like to run java apps in firefox. I did an apt-cache search for java and there were a jillion responses. Can someone tell me what to install if this is possible?
15:42
<Gadi>
lingering processes can cause nasty effects to user sessions
15:42
<MasterOne>
so it is a good idea to use it?
15:42
<Gadi>
MasterOne: usually
15:42
sonjag: GO ELLIS EAGLES!
15:42
<MasterOne>
shouldn't that one be included in the default LTSP5 setup?
15:43
<sonjag>
Gadi: always making me smile :) Howdy... hope the summit's going well for you!
15:43
<Gadi>
MasterOne: it is an application server thing - it has pros and cons
15:43
its up to you the admin
15:43
<MasterOne>
and the only thing is to "sudo apt-get install xterminator", so no further configuration, right?
15:43
<Gadi>
sonjag: indeed - wrt java: there are lots of java's in the world - Sun's, open source, ...
15:44
sonjag: I usually go for the sun ones
15:44
just to make sure that its compatible with most java stuff out there
15:44
MasterOne: yeah - tho, not sure if its in one of the ubuntu repos or if you have to add moquist's repo
15:45
<sonjag>
masterone: if you're going to install xterminator, you might want to check out this site: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2007-September/002345.html
15:45
masterone: it gives directions from moquist on how to install
15:45
<MasterOne>
"If you have this on your system, each user can only have one login
15:45
session at a time."
15:46
<Gadi>
right - but, thats usually preferred anyway
15:46
<MasterOne>
I thought it always was a very bad idea, to log into a graphical session more than once at a time
15:46
<Gadi>
gnome doesnt always like logging in as the same user from 2 different places
15:46
exactly
15:47
<sonjag>
gadi: thanks... I'll try them later. bye!
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15:47
<MasterOne>
I can remember times, when the session management of a DE got pretty much messed up when logging in twice on the same user accoun
15:48* Gadi nods
15:48
<MasterOne>
so using xterminator is a very good think indeed, especially if you try to login a second time by accident
15:49
pretty cool, I think I should subscribe to that mailinglist
15:54
ok, thanks a lot for your help, this was very usefull :)
15:54
<Gadi>
welcome, welcome
15:54
:)
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16:50
<cliebow>
Wowww!!!
16:51
<sbalneav>
What's got you excited there cliebow
16:55
<cliebow>
your blog..
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16:55
<cliebow>
i just love it!!
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17:27
<ICC>
Can anyone advise me about printing in ltsp kiosk mode?
17:49Topslakr| is now known as Topslack
17:52
<ICC>
last call for help printing in LTSP-Kiosk mode?
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17:58
<warren>
anybody remember what time jim is leaving boston for maine?
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18:50
<cliebow>
yes 9 ish
18:50
he said
18:52
6 or 10 2 1/2 hrs to freeport... there by 1230
18:52
cripes 9 or 10
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<petre>
\quit
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