IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 15 May 2013   (all times are UTC)

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00:05
<gdi2k>
hi, I'm having a small issue with epoptes: I can only see machines that are already logged in - I cannot see machines that are on, but are only on the login screen. Is there any way to fix that?
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03:28
<alkisg>
digitalirony: there are newer ldm versions for 12.04 in the ts.sch.gr ppa
03:28
!greek-schools-ppa
03:28
<ltsp>
greek-schools-ppa: https://launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr/+archive/ppa/ supports LTS Ubuntu releases with newer LTSP versions, bug fixes etc
03:29
<alkisg>
gdi2k: you need to install epoptes-client in the chroot, see epoptes.org/installation
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05:28
<gdi2k>
alkisg, thanks for that. will give it a shot
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05:47
<Joanet>
Hi all. I've configured an script using session-setup-script at lightdm.conf but it only works starting local session. On LTSP it doesn't execute (using the same user). What can I check?
05:49
<alkisg>
Joanet: ltsp doesn't use lightdm
05:51
<Joanet>
Hi alkisg. Thanks for your reply. How can I run this script as sudo before user session starts? What I do is to recreate user profile from skel
05:52
<alkisg>
Joanet: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=1310986533.1915.3.camel%40alkis&forum_name=ltsp-discuss
05:54
(you don't need sudo)
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06:09
<alkisg>
Wow, putting i386.img in a local hard disk is *already* supported by LTSP!!! So having e.g. 50 fat clients on a 100 mbps network is not a problem anymore!!!
06:10
!learn local-boot as If you want LTSP fat clients on a low-speed network, you can put i386.img on e.g. C:\Boot\LTSP\i386.img and use this command line in pxelinux.cfg: APPEND ro initrd=ltsp/i386/initrd.img init=/sbin/init-ltsp root=/dev/sda1 rootflags=ro loop=/Boot/LTSP/i386.img; IPAPPEND 3
06:10
<ltsp>
The operation succeeded.
06:12
<muppis>
Nice.
06:28
<gdi2k>
was wondering what other's experiences were with server load. my cpu usage is around 20 - 30% with 9 clients in use, but server load average is 6.99, 6.45, 5.69 which is quite high for a quad-core. things seem smooth on the clients though. is it ok or should I be looking to upgrade?
06:31
<alkisg>
!directx
06:31
<ltsp>
directx: If you want to turn off encryption to the workstation, which will speed up performance at the cost of security, you need to specify LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file. Type !docs in IRC to get a link to the current documentation
06:31
<gdi2k>
yes I did that already
06:32
I have no complaints about performance at the moment, am just getting worried that the server is running out of steam if I want to add a few more clients
06:38
<Joanet>
alkisg: for doing what you told about S00-guest-sessions I need ssh, don't I? I don't have installed it
06:38
also, can I call to an existent sh file?
06:44
<alkisg>
Joanet: ltsp clients always have ssh installed, you don't need to install it
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06:47
<Joanet>
alkisg: I say install ssh server
06:47
<alkisg>
Joanet: ltsp servers always have ssh server installed
06:47
LTSP doesn't work at all without ssh
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06:57
<Joanet>
thanks
06:57
I'll try
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08:06* DJUnreal stretches
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09:10
<workingcats>
meoink all
09:14
<DJUnreal>
meoink?
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09:15* DJUnreal miaows
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09:50* DJUnreal looks at all the idlers
09:53
<gdi2k>
looks like everyone has risen, so I'll post my question regarding server loads again :) my ltsp server load average is around 6 - 7 (it's a quad core, so max should be 4.00) with 9 users logged in. CPU is around 20 - 30% and responsiveness on the clients is good. if I want to add some more clients, should I be looking to upgrade, or is it ok to have such high load averages?
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09:58
<DJUnreal>
depends
09:58
are you running local apps?
09:59
basically what you're asking is a sysadmin question, not an ltsp question
09:59
but luckily for you, i'm a sysadmin
10:02
so the question is... what (in top) is creating the load?
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10:05
<gdi2k>
hehe good :)
10:05
there are some local apps, but very few
10:05
skype and linphone only
10:05
<DJUnreal>
Okay
10:05
<gdi2k>
firefox runs on the server as it's too sluggish local
10:05
<DJUnreal>
so what's creating the load?
10:05
<gdi2k>
mainly firefox and also the pesky pulse audio volume control that they use all the time to fiddle with headset volumes
10:06
flash plugin, some xchat, a bit of libreoffice on the side, nothing major though
10:06
<DJUnreal>
ok...
10:07
so in 'top' those are the highest processes?
10:07
<gdi2k>
yes
10:07
<DJUnreal>
and that's under 'normal' conditions?
10:07
<gdi2k>
http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=3rm0yeXV
10:07
yes
10:08
<DJUnreal>
To Be Honest your cpu time is very low
10:08
68% idle
10:08
<gdi2k>
yes, but load is high
10:08
<DJUnreal>
so right now, it doesn't look like an issue
10:09
load is high, but it's not /doing/ anything
10:09
<gdi2k>
ok
10:09
<DJUnreal>
unless the user experience is suffering, i'd say it's fine
10:09
however
10:09
you /will/ want to look at why the fuck a volume control is eating 20% of your CPU per user
10:09
if you'll pardon the french
10:09
<gdi2k>
hehe, yes
10:10
it seems like anything remotely animated (animated volume bars) cause high cpu
10:10
<DJUnreal>
because that's a ludicrous amount of cpu time
10:10
hrmm
10:10
<gdi2k>
system monitor with the fancy graphics is the same
10:10
<DJUnreal>
that i can understand
10:10
but not quite that high...
10:10
you also gotta remember those load figures are averages
10:10
over 1, 5 and 10 mins i believe
10:10
and that your load average doesn't necessarily indicate a problem
10:11
<gdi2k>
yes, I've been reading about them, but most of the literature is more relevant for specific work loads, not general desktop computing
10:11
<DJUnreal>
michael and kirby need to close the window on their volume control
10:11
stops it animating, stops them using 20% cpu each
10:11
<gdi2k>
they all go up and down all the time - each time top refreshes someone else's volume control thing pops to the top
10:12
will ask them to close them and see what happens...
10:12
<DJUnreal>
ahh, they need to close them though
10:12* DJUnreal recommends some user re-education
10:12
<DJUnreal>
a hammer helps with this :)
10:12
<gdi2k>
:D
10:14
<DJUnreal>
but yeah
10:14
i'd say you're fine unless the user experience suffers or the server falls over
10:14
both of which will be immediately obvious very quickly
10:15
<gdi2k>
ok, thanks for the feedback, sounds good
10:15
SSDs seem to help a lot, even with an older system
10:15
<DJUnreal>
yes... i/o wait
10:18
<gdi2k>
right, so killing off the volume control app does reduce cpu load a good chunk, but load average remains similar
10:19
<DJUnreal>
yeah... that's because the averages are 1, 5 and 15 mins
10:19* DJUnreal is reading a rather handy article about load averages at the moment
10:19
<gdi2k>
(also difficult to gauge as everyone's on break right now)
10:24
<DJUnreal>
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9001?page=0,0
10:24
that's a handy article to check out for an in-depth explanation of load averages
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10:35* DJUnreal sighs as he does his sysadmin thing again and deals with moron (l)users
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10:39
<gdi2k>
DJUnreal, thanks for that, will have a look through
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10:43* gdi2k puts on moron cap
10:44
<DJUnreal>
no worries gdi2k... and you're not the moron
10:44* DJUnreal is dealing with an employee in another country who's being an utter moron
10:44
<gdi2k>
ah ok hehe. thanks
10:45
<DJUnreal>
"i've got a failed disk, but i can't get a warranty swap from dell because we'd have to send this one back and it's got private data on it"
10:45
"no, you fool, it's part of a RAID, and it's failed, and therefore it's useless on two counts"
10:47
<gdi2k>
at my previous company they insisted on destroying such disks and buying new rather than getting warranty replacements due to their data security policy. madness
10:48
<vlt>
If there’s no crypt layer there is in fact private data on it.
10:49
<DJUnreal>
vlt: our policy before disks go back to dell is to degauss them
10:50
<vlt>
DJUnreal: Sounds good.
10:50
<DJUnreal>
any business-sensitive data should be encrypted at all times anyway
10:50
<gdi2k>
doesn't that void warranty?
10:50
<DJUnreal>
nah
10:50
not when you have the clout with dell that we have
10:50
the kinda clout that gets us toys from dell which aren't even on the market yet
10:50* DJUnreal imagines none of you have heard of the Dell VRTX or Dell Vertex system
10:51* DJUnreal has, on a desk 10 feet away from him, the first VRTX in existence
10:52
<gdi2k>
does it make good coffee?
10:52
<DJUnreal>
no, but it's a kick-ass platform
11:01* DJUnreal would LOVE a vrtx for his LTSP environment :)
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11:41
<garymc>
Hi Guys, A while back I installed open office on the server and but without Database. All FAT clients have access to this software. I have just addded DATABASE on the server but none of the FAT clients see it. Why is this and how can I fix?
11:41
<alkisg>
ltsp-update-image
11:44
<garymc>
where do I do that? on the server
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11:47
<DJUnreal>
yes
11:48
on your LTSP server you run ltsp-update-image
11:48
<garymc>
thanks
11:48
<DJUnreal>
No Problem
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11:58
<gdi2k>
I have some thin clients that have trouble keeping time (likely dead cmos batteries etc.). can I install ntpd as a local app to combat this until I have new cmos batteries? I have a local app which is sensitive to correct time so client time needs to be accurate
11:59
<DJUnreal>
yeah
11:59
you'll want to use NTP somewhere along the line
11:59
<gdi2k>
I already use it on the server and it's fine, but not on the clients themselves (local)
11:59
<DJUnreal>
the question is...
12:00
why do your clients (which, if they're truly thin) need to have the same time as the server, if you're running the apps on the server and therefore everything takes the server's time anyway?
12:00
<gdi2k>
the app in question is running locally on the thin client using localapps
12:00
<DJUnreal>
ahhhh
12:00
right
12:00
that makes sense
12:00
yes, use ntpd in your ltsp image
12:01
<gdi2k>
ok I'll give it a shot
12:01
<DJUnreal>
at the least... if your images ntp sync to the server
12:01
it doesn't matter if the server's time is right
12:01
so long as your clients sync to it
12:01
right?
12:01
<gdi2k>
in this case, yes, I need to have accurate time for my local app
12:02
but having accurate time on the server is nice of course, and ntp does a good job at that
12:02
<DJUnreal>
hrmm, so it's not dependent on the server and client times matching, but your local app having the correct time with the rest of the world?
12:03
<gdi2k>
yes exactly - it's actually linphone that's giving us gripes with an asterisk server
12:03
the server is moaning that the client is out of sync
12:04
<DJUnreal>
right right
12:04
so you need your own ntp repeater (assuming the clients don't have direct LoS to the internet)
12:04
ie your LTSP server needs to become a stratum 2 timeserver or whatever
12:04
<gdi2k>
I think the clients do have direct web access as linphone works fine with an external asterisk server
12:05
<DJUnreal>
well in that case it's easy
12:05
<gdi2k>
I have LTSP configured with a single network card
12:05
<DJUnreal>
just set up ntp talking to pool.ntp.org
12:05
<gdi2k>
yeh, I'll just use the defaults, they seem to work fine normally
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12:07
<DJUnreal>
pool.ntp.org is about the most reliable timesource you'll ever find
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12:18
<garymc>
Hi ltsp-image-update didnt fix it :( Do I have to run that on the FAT clients also?
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12:26
<garymc>
DJUnreal :I lost connection before and I can not get this DATABASE program to show in the FAT clients
12:26
HELP!
12:30
<gdi2k>
did you install DATABASE in the chroot of the fat client?
12:30
or just on the server itself?
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12:36
<gdi2k>
garymc, from what I understand, installing fat client apps is the same as installing local apps, so you need to chroot into your fat client's root file system and install it there, then rebuild the image
12:36
<DJUnreal>
did you manage to do the ltsp-update-image?
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13:11
<garymc>
DJUnreal it looks as though it is failing
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13:16
<DJUnreal>
well that's the first indication then
13:16
need to find out why and fix it
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13:32
<garymc>
i will do , I need to got to server room to check cos for some reason I cant ssh into it
13:32
<DJUnreal>
i'd be fixing that first ;)
13:33
<garymc>
dont know how too
13:35
<DJUnreal>
start with the simple bits
13:35
restart sshd
13:35
<garymc>
from server room, bear in mind this is a live system
13:36
<DJUnreal>
then maybe you don't wanna be messing with it until everyone goes home
13:36
as if you're messing with ltsp and break the image, things won't boot
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14:57
<dawydiuk>
I'm setting up an ltsp server and am was thinking about using raid 5 or raid 10 as I don't have a second server as a backup. I don't have a "real" raid controller in my power edge 2900 but rather one that can only provide raid level 1. I'm not sure if I should pickup a raid controller so I can withstand more than one drive failing… Any suggestions on this?
14:59
<garymc>
DJUnreal : How do I restart sshd
14:59
?
15:01
<DJUnreal>
try /etc/init.d/sshd restart
15:01
dawydiuk: RAID-1 is far more resilient (and, for that matter, faster) than RAID-5
15:01
as long as your disks are big enough, i'd say use RAID-1 any day
15:02
<dawydiuk>
thanks for the feedback I'll probably just stick with RAID 1 then
15:02
<DJUnreal>
no worries
15:07
<garymc>
DJUnreal - didnt work
15:08
ok i have ssh'd in
15:08
fixed i think
15:09
<DJUnreal>
cool
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15:15
<garymc>
whats the update image command?
15:17
<DJUnreal>
ltsp-update-image
15:20
<garymc>
ok its doing something
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15:25
<garymc>
i dont think it has worked though
15:26
here is a pastebin: pastebin.com/mxq3Rugf
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15:34
<DJUnreal>
dude... you REALLY need to sort out your file paths
15:34
you're not running that inside a chroot are you?
15:35
<garymc>
god knows
15:35
<DJUnreal>
mkdir: cannot create directory `/opt/ltsp/amd64.backup/etc/ltsp': No such file or directory
15:35
Regenerating kernel...
15:35
chroot: cannot run command `/usr/share/ltsp/update-kernels': No such file or directory
15:35
err
15:36
mkdir: cannot create directory `/opt/ltsp/amd64.backup/etc/ltsp': No such file or directory
15:36
./usr/sbin/ltsp-update-image: 3: cannot create /opt/ltsp/amd64.backup/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf: Directory nonexistent
15:36
./usr/sbin/ltsp-update-image: 3: cannot create /opt/ltsp/amd64.backup/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf: Directory nonexistent
15:36
Regenerating kernel...
15:36
chroot: cannot run command `/usr/share/ltsp/update-kernels': No such file or director
15:36
the two dots at the beginning of the file paths are just to allow me to paste them
15:36
you need to sort out all those file permissions
15:44
<garymc>
i am screwed then, as I dont have a clue
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15:53
<garymc>
do I need root access?
15:59
<lykwydchykyn>
Has anyone got ltsp on Ubuntu 12.04 booting for non-pae clients?
16:00
I've been struggling to find a solution for this since yesterday; finally have a sort-of-hackish solution, but it feels wrong.
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16:11
<||cw>
lykwydchykyn: so pointing pxe at the non-pae image doens't do it?
16:18
<lykwydchykyn>
My solution right now is to explicitly install the non-pae kernel. It appears this sets up a set of ".old" symlinks in the tftpboot directory for vmlinuz/initrd/nbi/etc.
16:19
Then my script does some sed action to replace the references to those things with the "old" version.
16:19
My trouble is, I don't know if the ".old" thing is a coincidence or designed behavior.
16:19
So the solution works, but feels a tad brittle
16:20
I got the impression there was actually a way this was *supposed* to work, without involving manual hacking.
16:20
<||cw>
wait, so the newly installed non-pae kernel gets the .old?
16:20
what is it in the chroot?
16:21
<lykwydchykyn>
Yep. I found that if I manually uninstall the pae kernel, the non-pae kernel does not get linked to vmlinuz. vmlinuz becomes a broken link.
16:21
so now I have both kernels
16:21
<||cw>
that sounds like a packaging bug.
16:23
<lykwydchykyn>
in which package?
16:27
<||cw>
all kernels, I bet
16:28
debian's always been a little weird with mutliple builds of the same kernel, and I'm sure ubuntu didn't make it any better, and likely worse
16:30
<lykwydchykyn>
man... all i need is about two dozen web browser terminals. It shouldn't be this complicated.
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17:13
<alkisg>
jammcq: I just restarted apache2, ltsp.org was down again
17:14
gdi2k: clients supposedly sync time with the server on boot, if they don't it's a bug
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17:16
<digitalirony>
hrmm
17:17
alkisg: I installed the ppa like you said, and did an apt-get upgrade, but it didn't seem to fix the issue with LDM_FORCE_SESSION
17:17
maybe I am missing something?
17:17
<alkisg>
digitalirony: did you upgrade the chroot, or the server? ldm is in the chroot
17:17
<digitalirony>
durp
17:17
I have to rebuild the chroot
17:18
<alkisg>
Or just upgrade it
17:18
Watch out for nbd-server incompatibilities, the ppa was a newer nbd-server version which uses different settings
17:19
s/was/has/
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19:15
<DJUnreal>
awesome
19:15
apparently my electricity company aren't interested in the fact that i'm getting 250v out of my wall
19:17
<||cw>
yeah. sounds like an internal wiring issue
19:18
<DJUnreal>
of course
19:19
'cause internal wiring will make all my sockets spew out higher voltage than they should
19:19
apparently the threshold at which it becomes dangerous is 253v
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19:19
<DJUnreal>
Welcome Back alkisg
19:19
<digitalirony>
alkisg: that worked btw, thanks
19:19* alkisg waves
19:20
<DJUnreal>
all i can say is "thank goodness I have a UPS that supports AVR Trim"
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20:44
<dcmoody>
hello all. I'm setting up a new LTSP Server, Ubuntu 12.04.2 on 64-bit system with 32-bit clients. The client boots, I get the login screen. However after attempting to login the screen goes blank, then back to the login screen with no errors. In my syslog the only thing that jumps out is: "nbd9: unknown partition table", "nbd9: NBD_DISCONNECT", & "nbd9: Receive control failed (result -32)"
20:46
<lykwydchykyn>
dcmoody: those nbd errors are always in the logs, I don't think they have anything to do with your issue.
20:47
except that last one, I've not seen that before
20:47
<dcmoody>
it shows up in the log twice
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20:49
<lykwydchykyn>
did you run ltsp-update-sshkeys ?
20:50
<dcmoody>
yeah i've run update-sshkeys, update-kernels, i'm about to the point of scrapping the /opt/ltsp/i386 and rebuilding the client
20:52
here's a bigger portion of the syslog from the server (i enabled remote syslog feature). http://pastebin.com/Tei5Rcpf
20:54
and my lts.conf file: http://pastebin.com/MLhe0JWM
20:56
<lykwydchykyn>
Which desktop environment is installed on the server?
20:56
<dcmoody>
ubuntu-desktop, the default one...
20:58
<lykwydchykyn>
It sounds like the actual desktop session is failing; if you're getting a login screen, the client is loading its OS.
20:59
what's the client hardware?
20:59
<dcmoody>
it's a P4 PC with the hard drive removed
20:59
<lykwydchykyn>
what kind of graphics hardware is in it?
20:59
<dcmoody>
i'm not getting any messages in the users .xsession-errors file, so i assumed it wasn't even attempting to load the desktop session
21:00
<lykwydchykyn>
I can't say authoritatively if that's supposed to get anything in it, but I usually don't with LTSP. Might just be my setups, though.
21:00
<dcmoody>
i'm not certain... i was running a LTSP setup on Ubuntu 8.04 before, but that server died on me last week and i'm trying to get this new one set up
21:01
<lykwydchykyn>
I would recommend trying something really basic like openbox, just to rule out a hardware problem between your client and unity.
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21:02
<dcmoody>
ok... i'll see what i can come up with
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21:08
<dcmoody>
you know after thinking about it, i might be better off rebuilding the client altogether... i remember following this sites instructions and i updated the chroot? I would hope that that didn't corrupt it but it might have done something
21:10
however i dont' think it had any packages to update... but i was able to login from the client after initial setup then i started making settings changes and now i can't get logged in
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21:24
<lykwydchykyn>
a rebuild is always a safe idea; you can just move your old chroot directory if you want to back up your changes
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21:37
<dcmoody>
well rebuilt client works... tomorrow, i'll try updating the chroot and see if it bombs
21:37
thanks for the help
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23:39
<derekn>
Can anyone point me toward documentation on how to set up xrandr in the lts.conf? I'd like to be able to use dual montiors on my thin clients
23:42
<digitalirony>
http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/raring/en/man5/lts.conf.5.html
23:42
its about mid way down that page
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23:45
<derekn>
So if I'm understanding it correctly for two monitors I'd need to add xrandr_output_0 and xrandr_output_1? Thanks for your help btw.
23:46
<digitalirony>
well
23:46
iunno, I don't use xrandr
23:46
heh
23:47
I use nvidia with xinerama
23:47
I just knew where that was
23:48
but, from what this says, thats does seem to be the case, yes
23:48
<derekn>
I still appreciate the pointer :) Unfortunately I've got both ATI and nVidia clients so I can't use xinerama unless I want to configure them all.
23:48
<digitalirony>
looks like you can just use regular xrandr commands though
23:48
and do like
23:48
xrandr_command_0
23:48
and 1
23:48
etc
23:49
and just send it the xrandr commands in order that you would execute them normally
23:49
<derekn>
Ok, I'll give that a try. Thanks for your help.
23:49
<digitalirony>
thank god I only have single head workstations heheh
23:49
np
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23:50
<digitalirony>
if you hang around long enough im sure some one much more l33t than me will answer
23:50
annnd nvm then
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23:55
<gdi2k>
we use xrandr (with nvidia cards using open source drivers)
23:55
we have: XRANDR_COMMAND_0="xrandr --output DVI-I-1 --primary --output HDMI-1 --off --output VGA-1 --off"
23:56
this deactivates the second screen on the log in window so we don't have the login window split across two screens
23:56
once logged in, the window manager takes care of the remaining settings
23:57
(we use xubuntu, so xfce handles it)