IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 15 July 2012   (all times are UTC)

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09:16
<DJUnreal>
so going on from last night's problem... we established i need a different kernel for some of my thinclients to work, but i'm trying to find a way of doing it that won't be horrendously painful - it seems that an older 'standard' kernel will work nicely, so I figured there must be a way to ltsp-build-client with the old one...
09:17
tried the --dist option last night, and it didn't wanna work (dunno if I was putting the distro name in wrong for debian or something)
09:17
it looks like a 2.4 kernel will work for the specific clients i've got, so was hoping to use lenny and kernel 2.4 (i believe they were still packaged together)...
09:20
<alkisg>
2.4 is too old to be usable, I don't think lenny has that
09:21
Can you boot the client with a usb stick, to verify it's an issue with the kernel?
09:21
<DJUnreal>
i'll give that a shot, hold on
09:21
*digs out lili*
09:23
helps if i have a usb stick kicking around lol
09:25* DJUnreal used to have a pile of them all chained together
09:26* DJUnreal sighs... NEVER let your mate look after your place for a week while you're abroad... EVERYTHING moves
09:30
<DJUnreal>
argh, this is depressing :(
09:30* DJUnreal may have to go and buy a new usb stick
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09:33
<DJUnreal>
i wonder... if i can get it to boot off of a card reader
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09:37
<DJUnreal>
gonna try a 2.6 kernel to start with alkisg
09:56
ok, so it's trying...
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09:58
<DJUnreal>
that went... err... badly
09:59
gonna try the failsafe version
10:02
so failsave loads /live/vmlinux
10:02
then loads /live/initrd.img
10:02
decompresses the kernel
10:02
parses elf
10:02
boots the kernel
10:02
and then hangs
10:02
<alkisg>
Which distro/version is that?
10:02
<DJUnreal>
debian 6.0.4 live
10:03
but using the failsafe boot
10:03
means it'll have kernel 2.6
10:03
'cause it's stable, not testing
10:03
and only testing gets 3.2
10:03
<alkisg>
Any messages when it hangs? Also try removing "quiet"
10:03
<DJUnreal>
no 'quiet' in the boot options for that grub entry
10:04
the last message is "Booting the kernel.f to disable)... ok"
10:04
the cursor is still blinking
10:04
but it's not reading the sd card any more
10:05
i'm tempted to go back to an older knoppix on an older kernel and see how that fares
10:05
<alkisg>
Which thin client is that again? I guess some googling would be the fastest way to find a compatible kernel...
10:05
<DJUnreal>
it's a Neoware CA5
10:05
and some googling suggested it'd only work with 2.4 series kernels
10:06
which, for what the kids want to do, isn't gonna be the end of the world
10:06
<alkisg>
Ouch. Then you'd probably need a ...debian sarge chroot, or edgy with backports...
10:06
<DJUnreal>
lenny still shipped with 2,4 i think
10:06
<alkisg>
Or just use DSL and X -query
10:07
<DJUnreal>
hopefully in a few months
10:07
<alkisg>
Btw how much RAM does that have?
10:07
<DJUnreal>
this will all become academic
10:07
the one i have, i think it's running 256
10:07* DJUnreal checks
10:08
<alkisg>
http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/SiS/Neoware+CA5+thin+client/
10:08
They say it works with 2.6.25
10:08
<DJUnreal>
ooh good
10:09
Okay
10:09
it's got 32MB onboard RAM
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10:09
<DJUnreal>
just checking the dimm slot
10:11
DIMM slot is empty
10:11
so 32MB atm
10:11
but i'm sure i can find some 256MB SODIMMs to throw at it
10:12
<alkisg>
DJUnreal: errr then *that's* the kernel problem
10:12
<DJUnreal>
i figured it may be
10:12
<alkisg>
The kernel can't uncompress the initramfs on so little ram
10:12* DJUnreal honestly thought it was running at least 256
10:13
<DJUnreal>
now to dig out my PC133 SODIMMs
10:13
<alkisg>
You need to add 64Mb more at least
10:13
<DJUnreal>
i should have some 256's in the box
10:24
aha
10:24
NOW we're talking
10:24
just found in my old collection
10:24
a few 512MB PC133 SODIMMs
10:30
well bugger me with a rather large watermelon
10:30
512MB of RAM later... my servers and switches start flickering into life
10:32
now i guess i should turn local apps off for this particular client
10:44
so... for anyone who says the neoware CA5 won't work with kernels pre 3.2
10:44
they're wrong, provided you have plenty of RAM :)
10:47
<alkisg>
It'd be a lot easier if the kernel just said that "not enough RAM to uncompress the initramfs" :)
10:47
<DJUnreal>
yeah, i agree
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10:48
<alkisg>
Lns: ^
10:49* DJUnreal reboots it with local apps turned off
10:50
<DJUnreal>
it's not the fastest machine on the planet to boot
10:50
takes maybe a minute or two
10:50
but maybe i can thin the image down a bit
10:50
<alkisg>
You can speed up the booting with NBD
10:50
(instead of NFS)
10:51
Does it have a 100mbps network card?
10:51
<DJUnreal>
takes a while to populate /dev etc
10:51
yeah, 100mbps
10:51
it's (surprisingly) an RTL8139 :D
10:51* DJUnreal used to love those chips back in the day
10:51
<alkisg>
A compressed nbd image offers about 5-10 times faster disk access than NFS
10:52
<DJUnreal>
and can i use one of those for some machines, and not use it for others?
10:52
<alkisg>
Sure, but you don't have a reason to do so
10:52
<DJUnreal>
i will do
10:53
basically, the project i'm building is /not/ a static system
10:53
i run a unit called Scout Internet Support over in the UK for scout groups/areas/districts/whatever to make use of
10:53
and we run multiple things, including mobile cybercafes for events
10:54
now at the moment, we have a bunch of desktops (which work fine with NFS and have gigabit NICs etc)
10:54
and we got donated these neoware clients too
10:54
so i want to run the neowares on a smaller faster image
10:54
<alkisg>
The advantage of NFS is that you don't have to run ltsp-update-image after each chroot modification... if you're maintaining nbd for some clients, you might as well do it for all
10:54
NBD size doesn't matter
10:55
<DJUnreal>
Okay
10:57* DJUnreal knows for a fact that after the Olympics, his contact at Orange UK will have a load of laptops to donate to him too :)
10:57
<DJUnreal>
hence i'll already wanna run 2 archs - i386 and amd64
10:58
i'm tempted to run one arch with NBD and the other with NFS
10:58
if you think NBD will help
11:00
<alkisg>
NBD does help, not so sure about amd64
11:00
Btw are you running a lot of localapps or are you using fat clients?
11:02
<DJUnreal>
previously we've had fat clients
11:03
so ran local apps for them
11:03
it partly depends on what's available at any site we arrive at
11:05
the issue is
11:05
that because most of what we provide is for kids
11:05
they want to play flash games
11:05
and lots of them
11:06
so running everything on the server means that 10 machines way overpower even a dual 3.2GHz system
11:06
because the majority of flash games out there are badly coded and eat cpu cycles like there's no tomorrow
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11:18
<DJUnreal>
ok, i can't work out if it's the client that's suffering
11:19
or something else in my environment
11:19
but this is dog slow
11:19
<alkisg>
!ldmdirectx
11:19
<ltsp>
alkisg: Error: "ldmdirectx" is not a valid command.
11:19
<alkisg>
!directx
11:19
<ltsp>
alkisg: directx: If you want to turn off encryption to the workstation, which will speed up performance at the cost of security, you need to specify LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file. Type !docs in IRC to get a link to the current documentation
11:19
<alkisg>
!fatclients
11:19
<ltsp>
alkisg: fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
11:19
<alkisg>
(it's similar for debian too)
11:19
<DJUnreal>
i'm talking things like scrolling in chrome
11:19
there's a hell of a lag time
11:20
<alkisg>
scrolling in chrome means that the slow client will have to decompress lots of X encrypted data
11:20
<DJUnreal>
but yeah, directx looks like something that needs changing
11:20* DJUnreal turns that off for the baby clients then
11:21
<DJUnreal>
there's no way to have a new .conf change automatically update the way the clients work, i assume
11:22
<alkisg>
Without reboot? No, currently...
11:22
<DJUnreal>
thought not
11:22
and something as major as turning encryption off would need a reboot anyway i'd assume
11:23
<alkisg>
An X reboot would be enough, but it's not implemente
11:23
d
11:23* DJUnreal nods
11:23
<DJUnreal>
by the way... what country are you in?
11:24
<alkisg>
Greece
11:24
<DJUnreal>
ah cool
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11:31
<DJUnreal>
ok, looks like nbd may be the way to go
11:32
<alkisg>
directx speeds up graphics, nbd speeds up network disk access
11:32
firefox uses X caching so it's a bit faster than chrome, on thin clients
11:32
<DJUnreal>
firefox doesn't work for us
11:32
partly because the default install is chinese
11:33
and partly because last time we tried to use it, it hung if you tried to use the search box in the middle of the homepage
11:33
the chinese install i could work around easily
11:33
the search box crash issue, i can't
11:34
<alkisg>
I haven't heard of that issue
11:34
<DJUnreal>
ok, building nbd :)
11:35
<alkisg>
For wheezy I think that ltsp-update-image --force-nbd is enough
11:35
<DJUnreal>
ah, i just did --config-nbd
11:36
<alkisg>
Ah yeah that one
11:36
<DJUnreal>
which seems to be doing its stuff
11:36
'cause the ltsp-update-image said "if you're sure, do that"
11:36
<alkisg>
We had a clash when we were trying to decide which name was better :D
11:36
<DJUnreal>
HeHe
11:36
so just so i can check i understand
11:36
nbd creates a disk image rather than exporting the server's drives as nfs
11:37
right?
11:37
(and hence the requirement to update-image each time it's modified)
11:37
<alkisg>
Right, but you can easily use both
11:39
<DJUnreal>
Okay
11:39
so i've built the nbd image
11:39
do i need to put anything in lts.conf or anything to make it work?
11:39
or will it just use that now?
11:40
(i see it's created a new .conf file)
11:40
<alkisg>
Check your pxelinux.cfg/default, if it mentions nbd first, you're good to go
11:42
<DJUnreal>
http://paste.debian.net/179161/
11:42
looks right to me...
11:42
except the default
11:42
which needs pointing at nbd
11:42
<Hyperbyte>
!ltsp-pnp
11:42
<ltsp>
Hyperbyte: ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
11:43
<alkisg>
DJUnreal: you can temporarily change that manually, or change update-kernels.conf => BOOT_METHODS
11:44* DJUnreal changes temporarily to test
11:46
<Hyperbyte>
Oh shi- ... I just realized I need an i386 system if I want to use ltsp-pnp with i386 clients
11:46* DJUnreal grins
11:47
<DJUnreal>
ok, so something makes me think it's not using the nbd file
11:47
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: should I rewrite the notice in BOLD? :P :D
11:47
DJUnreal: if you're not using a menu (which you aren't), the first entry is used instead
11:48
Try changing the menu and the entries orde
11:48
r
11:48
<DJUnreal>
even if i change the default at the top?
11:48
<alkisg>
Not 100% sure about that
11:48
So change them both
11:48
<DJUnreal>
i've just commented out the NFS version
11:49
leaving ltsp-NBD at the top effectively :)
11:49
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, no, I had already installed the system before I considered ltsp-pnp
11:49
<alkisg>
!localxterm | echo DJUnreal:
11:49
<ltsp>
DJUnreal: localxterm: Any applications that you launch on a thin client actually runs on the server, not on the client itself. If you want to open a program on the client locally, you can type 'ltsp-localapps <program>' in a run dialog or in a terminal. For example, 'ltsp-localapps xterm' to open a terminal running on the client.
11:49
<alkisg>
...and then cat /proc/cmdline
11:49
To check if it's nbd or nfs
11:50
<Hyperbyte>
But maybe it'd be easier to do traditional fat clients anyways, since I might want to do a bit more with the server besides thin clients.
11:50
*besides LTSP
11:51
<alkisg>
Sure, you're good enough to manage a chroot with console :)
11:54
<DJUnreal>
hrmm
11:54
either that's made things worse
11:54
or it's completely wonky
11:56
it's faster mounting file systems
11:57
but it's no faster booting...
11:57* DJUnreal wonders if it'll load a GUI this time
12:01
<DJUnreal>
wow... that's far slower :(
12:01
<alkisg>
Something is wrong then
12:01
<DJUnreal>
yeah
12:01
NBD is meant to be faster, right?
12:02
it's just taken 8 minutes to boot the client
12:03
<alkisg>
Compressed NBD gives 5-10 times faster disk access than NFS, so if it's slower for you, something else is wrong
12:05* DJUnreal nods
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15:41
<vagrantc>
highvoltage: looks like the unblock requests are golden! barring RC bugs on ldm/ldm-themes, it should hit wheezy :)
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18:29
<highvoltage>
vayay!
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18:47
<Hyperbyte>
Hey hey HEY Alkis! :)
18:49
<Lns>
woohoo for newer ltsp in wheezy! =)
18:51
<alkisg>
Hi all
18:51
Hyperbyte: you fatter now? :D
18:54
<Hyperbyte>
... what?
18:54
Oh, the clients for Radio Capelle
18:54
Yeah, I just built an fat i386 client chroot on the amd64 system
18:55
<alkisg>
Cool
18:55
Works ok?
18:55
<Hyperbyte>
I need to build this server into a 19" case, and then I can transfer the server to the radio station and start testing properly.
18:55
No idea... well it built okay
18:55
As far as testing it goes, I don't really have the setup here to test it.
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19:38
<uskerine>
hi, i have installed ltsp, i would like to launch google chrome as local app, but unfortunatelly resolv.conf seems not to be properly configured in the thin clients
19:38
route is ok
19:38
but name resolution does not work
19:38
<muppis>
Have you set dns in lts.conf?
19:38
<uskerine>
so ping 87.248.112.181 works
19:39
but ping www.yahoo.com
19:39
doesn't
19:39
no i didn't muppis
19:39
let me check
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19:40
<uskerine>
where and how should i add that?
19:40
i am using dnsmasq
19:40
my primary dhcp server is the router
19:40
then the ltsp server adds pxe info
19:40
<muppis>
!lts.conf | echo uskerine
19:40
<ltsp>
uskerine lts.conf: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
19:40
<uskerine>
i have this for DNS in /etc/dnsmasq.d/ltsp.conf
19:40
# Don't function as a DNS server:
19:40
#port=0
19:41
why the thin client does not get the DNS servers ip's with the DHCP?
19:42
<muppis>
Are them defined to be send within?
19:43
I'm use dnsmasq in my router to serve all before pxe, including dns.
19:44
<uskerine>
i did not want to use dns in the server, but in the main router
19:45
i always forget
19:45
should i modify lts.conf
19:45
under
19:45
/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386
19:45
or under
19:45
/opt/ltsp/i386/etc/
19:45
?
19:46
<muppis>
Under /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386 then you don't need to rebuild the image.
19:46
Just reboot the client.
19:46
<uskerine>
then if i modify under /opt
19:46
and rebuild
19:46
then /var ir will be modified
19:46
then /var will be modified
19:46
right?
19:47
<muppis>
You don't need both. /var/lib... is fine and easier.
19:47
<uskerine>
ok
19:48
<muppis>
It's fetched in every boot so client will be updated from changes in file.
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19:51
<uskerine>
i have modified lts.conf adding DNS_SERVER=192.168.10.1
19:51
i have restarted the thin client
19:51
but it does not work
19:51
/etc/resolv.conf does not show 192.168.10.1 as name server
19:51
and ping www.yahoo.com
19:51
does not work
19:51
any further idea?
19:51
<muppis>
Can you put whole lts.conf to pastebin?
19:52
<uskerine>
it is really simple
19:52
LDM_THEME=ubuntu
19:52
DNS_SERVER=192.168.10.1
19:52
no need for pastebin, i have just that
19:52
<muppis>
Missing [default] at start, so it doesn't get parsed.
19:52
<uskerine>
wow
19:52
thanks
19:53
<muppis>
Common problem. ;)
19:55
<uskerine>
thanks it works now
19:55
although dns server is not under /etc/resolv.conf
19:55
do you know where it is "stored" now?
19:57
<muppis>
Actually, I don't. :D Never needed by myself.
19:57
<uskerine>
ok
19:58
what if i want to set primary and secondary dns servers?
19:58
DNS_SERVER=192.168.10.1 and 192.168.10.2
19:58
which is the right syntax?
19:58
(tha'ts not the in the man page)
19:58
<muppis>
Space separated.
19:59
<uskerine>
thanks
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