IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 29 January 2008   (all times are UTC)

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03:01
<kaos01>
hi, im gettign the following error when trying to use LTSP5: ipconfig: eth0: SIOCGIFINDEX: No such device
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03:29
<daya>
can anyone have idea about power used by ltsp client
03:29
<chupacabra>
110/60 hz?
03:30
mostly
03:31
<daya>
chupacabra, how much watt,
03:31
chupacabra, I am comparing these with other thin client devices,
03:31
<chupacabra>
depends
03:32
look at the specs. too much to keep up with. What clients you considering"?
03:56
<klausade>
!seen vagrant
03:56
<ltspbot>
klausade: I have not seen vagrant.
03:57
<klausade>
!seen vagrantc
03:57
<ltspbot>
klausade: vagrantc was last seen in #ltsp 10 hours, 52 minutes, and 55 seconds ago: <vagrantc> i don't actually need the output, just the return code, so .call is good enough
04:04
<daya>
chupacabra, I am in doubt , If I have got celeron 3.06 Ghz cpu, no hardsik and cdrom,
04:04
chupacabra, does it drag the same power as with cdrom and harddisk
04:11
<johnny>
i doubt it'll be much different..
04:13
<chupacabra>
not enough to worry about
04:20
<kaos01>
has anyone built e1000-7.6.15 on ubuntu 2.6.17-10-386 ?
04:21
it woudl be great to have the ko without me having to install and build the whole thing :)
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06:26
<kaos01>
anyone know how i can build e1000-7.6.15
06:26
for ubuntu 2.6.17-10-386
06:27
i tried downloading it, installed kernel source, etc ... but make never suceeds
06:30
<ogra>
whats wrong with the shipped e1000 driver _
06:32
<kaos01>
it doesnt recognise the NIC
06:32
:(
06:32
its teh 82566DM-2
06:33
got no idea what to do ... only other thing im thinking of trying is using 4.2 LBE
06:33
or getting new network cards
06:34
anyone any ideas ?
06:38
also when i run glxinfo the cleint crashes
06:38
(thats on another box with differnt NIC)
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07:35
<cliebow>
anyone using pny raid controller in ubuntu?..any recommendations?
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07:52
<drcode>
hi zll
07:52
all
07:52
any one up
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08:51
<bartolomeojsimps>
hello
08:51
does anybody know documentation for loaclapps
08:52
i'm trying to run twinkle in a thin client
08:52
but the sound is poor
08:52
so, locaapps could help me in this trouble
08:56
<vagrantc>
bartolomeojsimps: what linux distro are you using?
09:05
<sakhi>
kbye
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09:15
<bartolomeojsimps>
7.04
09:15
thatÅ› the version of my ltsp server
09:15
ubuntu
09:18
<vagrantc>
bartolomeojsimps: there isn't really documentation for localapps for ltsp5 yet
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09:20
<ogra1>
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ltsp-localapps
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09:21
<ogra1>
and http://ltspthinclient.blogspot.com/
09:21
i think thats all that was written online yet
09:21
for more detail you would have to pick scotts brain
09:23
<vagrantc>
ogra1: i'm guessing that's not likely to be implemented for hardy?
09:23
<ogra1>
right
09:23
feature freeze is on valentine
09:23
and hardy is LTS
09:23
<jammcq>
hmm
09:24
<ogra1>
i'm more focused on bugfixing than on features
09:24
jammcq, there is no code written yet ...
09:24
(for integration)
09:24
<jammcq>
yeah, I know
09:24
seems like we missed a huge opportunity
09:24
<ogra1>
way to late to start for hardy
09:25
i didnt expect it to be production ready for hardy from the beginning
09:25
<vagrantc>
if someone had made it there pet project...
09:25
<ogra1>
befor adding new features there is a lot to do on the old ones
09:25
<jammcq>
heh, someone like ogra ?
09:26* vagrantc is happy to be getting upstream in better shape
09:26
<ogra1>
jammcq, even then i wouldnt have proposed it for hardy
09:26
what vagrantc says
09:26
<jammcq>
one thing i've learned over the past 3 years, is if a particular feature doesn't make it into the release, don't worry, another release is just 6 months away
09:26
<ogra1>
and ldm needs *lots* and even more attention
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09:26
<vagrantc>
yes, ldm needs some serious love
09:28
<ogra1>
thanks to vagrantc ltspfs doesnt need as much but there are also some edges that could be looked at
09:28
<vagrantc>
indeed.
09:29
<ogra1>
getting perfect what we have is more important atm ... localapps will be better and more mature in hardy+1
09:29
<vagrantc>
maybe i should spearhead localapps from the debian side :)
09:29
<ogra1>
and given that vagrant might have a release around the same time that round this might be pretty helpful to lign up forces
09:30* ogra1 still hasnt solved the consolekit issue :(
09:31
<ogra1>
it scares me a bit that i dont make it ... that would be disastrous ...
09:31
(no admin tasks through thin clients, no sudo, no access for root to the display)
09:31
<vagrantc>
ogra1: you need to resolve that for hardy?
09:32
<ogra1>
gnome defaults to it
09:32
so does ubuntu indeed
09:32
<mccann>
ogra1: what is the issue?
09:33
<ogra1>
mccann, getting ssh -X handle ck connections like a display manager ...
09:33
ldm does: ssh -X user@server /etc/X11/Xsession
09:33* jammcq isn't making any promises, but we just might have a special visitor pop into the channel in a couple of minutes
09:33
<ogra1>
there are two solutions
09:34
one is to write my own server side dbus call thats executed by ldm as wrapper to the session
09:34
(bad, forces me to have server sided pieces while its possible to only use plain ssh servers today)
09:35
the other is to make ssh notice that DISPLAY is set and use the ck wrapper from pam
09:36
<vagrantc>
if the pam module requires root access, that won't work ...
09:36
<moquist>
ogra1: hey!
09:36
<mccann>
so basically just supporting ssh sessions in general, right?
09:36
<ogra1>
which doesnt sound like something upstream would accept ... but would solve cases like: ssh -X user@server sudo time-admin
09:36
mccann, right
09:36
<mccann>
last i checked we won't have much luck just using the pam module with openssh
09:37
<kottlett>
hi! just to check if I got it right: If I liked to do something like: boot from a network drive, but have all applications running on the client - LTSP is the wrong project, isn't
09:37
<mccann>
fwir, due to the fact that the pam module is run in a parent and not in the session child
09:37
<moquist>
kottlett: You can do that with LTSP.
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09:37
<moquist>
kottlett: Wait, but maybe not yet.
09:38
<kottlett>
moquist: now I'm totally confused :)
09:38
<ogra1>
mccann, right, privilege separation disturbs in other places as well sadly :/
09:38
<moquist>
kottlett: I've been out of the loop too long, and spoke too quickly. We should let somebody else answer; I have a similar question about the status of local app support right now. :)
09:38
<mccann>
otherwise we can make openssh call into CK directly just like GDM does
09:39
<ogra1>
through hacfking up openssh you mean
09:39
<kottlett>
moquist: ok, thx anyway :)
09:39
<mccann>
but i expect some pushback from ssh upstream on that
09:39
<ogra1>
right
09:39
<moquist>
kottlett: I've been so confident for the past few months that local app support will be here in April that I answered as if it existed right now. ;)
09:39
<kottlett>
moquist: hehe, ok
09:40
<ogra1>
debians/ubuntus openssh maintainer is my line manager ... i'm waiting for him to have some spare time to discuss how evil it is to put it in out packge
09:40
<mccann>
just using the pam module alone you'd see the session get set up with user=root and etc for the openssh process instead of the child Xsession process for the user
09:40
unless we can use environment variables to push more info into the pam module
09:40
man pam_ck_connector
09:41
<ogra1>
well, my last resort will just be a python-dbus Xsession.d script checking for LTSP_CLIENT to be set at session starup .... but i'd like to avoid such gross hacks
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09:42
<mccann>
or you can do something like create a ck-launch wrapper
09:42
<ogra1>
i'll play with it as soon as i spoke to colin and know the way to go ...
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09:42
<ogra1>
thts essentially what the Xsession script would be
09:42
<mccann>
that just maintains a ck session in the parent process and forks/execs a child
09:43
let me know if I can help - or how you make out
09:44
<ogra1>
will do :)
09:44
thanks :)
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09:48
<vagrantc>
moquist: localapps support isn't very good, but running all applications on the thin-client itself, while isn't as simple as setting a configuration option, isn't too hard if you already have network authentication or just need kiosks
09:50
<warren>
mccann, oh hey, glad to see you discussing here =)
09:51
mccann, have you already joined ltsp-developer list?
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09:51
<Gadi>
!s
09:51
<ltspbot>
Gadi: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09:51
<warren>
ogra1, vagrantc: how do we feel about vagrantc's proposed change to ldminfod? requires no changes to ldm.
09:51
<sbalneav>
Morning all
09:51
<warren>
sbalneav, scotty!!!
09:52
<ogra1>
!s
09:52
<sbalneav>
hey hey
09:52
<ltspbot>
ogra1: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09:52
<jammcq>
Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09:52
<ogra1>
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!+
09:52
<ltspbot>
ogra1: Error: "!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!+" is not a valid command.
09:52
<ogra1>
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!+
09:52
<ltspbot>
ogra1: Error: "!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!+" is not a valid command.
09:52* sbalneav counts !'s
09:52
<ogra1>
stupid bot
09:52
<sbalneav>
heh
09:52* ogra1 hugs scottie
09:52
<ogra1>
good to see you back
09:52
<sbalneav>
heh, well, my apologies
09:52
My last big hurdle got done this weekend
09:53
I converted my whole org from old mozilla suite to FF + thunderbird
09:53
<ogra1>
youre in athletics now ??
09:53
<sbalneav>
lol
09:53
<ogra1>
:)
09:54
<sbalneav>
My apologies to everyone. It's just been SOO busy at work for the last 2 months, I've let everyone down :(
09:54
<ogra1>
you should have gone with ff3 and xulrunner ...
09:54
else you'll have the same prob again soon
09:54
<sbalneav>
heh, I was happy to get off the 1998 technology :)
09:55
<jammcq>
sbalneav: but now you'll be hanging around alot, right?
09:55
<ogra1>
well, given upstream support philosophy you wont be able to have that setup for 10 years :)
09:57
<sbalneav>
Well, now that the big stuff's done, yeah
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09:57
<sbalneav>
I should be able to get back in the swing of things.
09:57
hold on, I have to pop away from my desk for a sec
09:57
<ogra1>
warren, i'm fine with vagrants proposal, it was my initial idea, but debian wanted to be able to support openbox or ion and they are not really bound to xdg
09:57
<sbalneav>
someones sent folder didn't come a cross.
09:59
<ogra1>
debian still uses the debian menu system ... xdg is no requirement
09:59
so packages dont need to have a .desktop package they suplly in any way
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10:07
<moquist>
sbalneav: hiya!
10:07* moquist is enthusiastic today
10:08
<ltsppbot>
"ogra" pasted "/usr/share/xsessions/ssh.desktop for warren" (129 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/429
10:09
<stgraber>
hey sbalneav
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10:10
<shogunx>
hey ogra... doing a dist-upgrade from feisty to gutsy, and apt seems to want to install ltsp-client-core on the server box, which errors and drops dpkg back to the shell. any ideas, other than doing an apt pin job to keep the package out?
10:11
<ogra1>
vagrantc, i talked to colin about the udeb split, he refuses to do that with the other d-i packages in ubuntu since we dont have that new rule (and likely wont have) so i'll have to maintain that as a diff :/
10:12
<stgraber>
shogunx: what's the error message ?
10:12
<ogra1>
shogunx, that could only happen if you tried to install ltsp-client on the server before .... there is nothing that depends on ltsp-client-core on a normal server
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10:14
<shogunx>
stgraber, debconf preconfig error... says "abort, this only belongs on thing clients" or something similar in a curses interface
10:15
<ogra1>
right, thats what its supposed to do
10:15
it shall never get installed outside of client chroots
10:16
<shogunx>
ogra1 the box is in northern .ng, and waited almost 10 months before finally getting to its destination and turned on. had edgy on it. upgraded to feisty in one shot, now to gutsy. not sure if someone tried to install ltsp-client.
10:16
<ogra1>
ogra@laptop:~/packages/edubuntu-meta-1.53$ apt-cache rdepends ltsp-client-core
10:16
ltsp-client-core
10:16
Reverse Depends:
10:16
ltsp-client
10:17
and ...
10:17
ogra@laptop:~/packages/edubuntu-meta-1.53$ apt-cache rdepends ltsp-client
10:17
ltsp-client
10:17
Reverse Depends:
10:17
ltspfsd
10:17
<shogunx>
not arguing that it should not be installed... just wondering how to prevent it from trying to install.
10:17
<warren>
mccann, http://pastebot.ltsp.org/429
10:17
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: hi!
10:18
<shogunx>
so either ltsp-client or ltspfsd are making ltsp-client-core a dependency?
10:18
<ogra1>
dpkg --purge ltsp-client-core
10:18
then run apt-get -f install
10:18
it should tell you whats depending on it ...
10:19
<warren>
ogra1, mccann just explained your paste to me. We can do a lot better than that.
10:19
ogra1, it was removed from gdm HEAD anyway
10:19
<shogunx>
gracias... back in a sec.root@odysseus:/boot# dpkg --purge ltsp-client-core
10:19
<ogra1>
ah, i'm not up to date on taht system ... might be i miss the latest package
10:19
<shogunx>
dpkg - warning: ignoring request to remove ltsp-client-core which isn't installed.
10:20
<warren>
brb
10:20
<ogra1>
warren, still, ssh sessions will interfere with ldm functionallity ...
10:20
<shogunx>
ltspfsd is the client side daemon, correct?
10:20
<ogra1>
right
10:20
has nothing to do on the server
10:20
<shogunx>
check.
10:21
<warren>
vagrantc, ok, sounds like everyone agrees, will you push your ldminfod change?
10:22
<vagrantc>
warren: i can push them. i'd like to improve it more, but i think it's functional as is.
10:23
<warren>
vagrantc, yeah, I need functional at the moment
10:23
<ogra1>
vagrantc, make sure to use the xdg tools
10:23
<warren>
ogra1, oh?
10:23
<ogra1>
(for a final implementation)
10:23
<vagrantc>
ogra1: xdg tools?
10:24
<shogunx>
ltspfsd was the culprit, ogra1. many thanks.
10:24
<warren>
ogra1, final implementation will need to transmit and display a lot more than the current interface: language name in defaultlocale, language name in native, etc.
10:24
ogra1, we already have code to do all that in gdm's rewrite, we can copy it over.
10:24
oh wait
10:24
<ogra1>
vagrantc, apt-cache show xdg-utils
10:25
<warren>
session name: Name= for the pretty name, Comment= for the tooltip
10:25
<ogra1>
right
10:25
i dont want ldminfod to get to complex
10:25
<warren>
ogra1, is it really better to use xdg utils or to use a native python way to read it?
10:25
ogra1, file format is very simple
10:25
<ogra1>
well, there is python-xdg, isnt there ?
10:26
<warren>
there is?
10:26
<ogra1>
ogra@laptop:~$ apt-cache search python xdg
10:26
python-xdg - A python library to access freedesktop.org standards
10:26
here at least :)
10:26
<warren>
hmm, we don't have that in a package
10:26
<ogra1>
in any case xgd files should be parsed by these tools ... saves us a lot of maintenamnce work :)
10:27
<warren>
Hmm, Red Hat's desktop team doesn't like the xdg utils.
10:27
ogra1, not necessarily, the code to parse the simple things that we need really isn't that complex.
10:27
ogra1, but i'll look into this when we get to that part of implementation.
10:28
<ogra1>
well, but you have to stay up to date withhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh standards compliance etc every new release
10:28
that takes a lot of time
10:28* ogra1 pokes x2x ....
10:28
<cliebow>
Scottie!!!!!!
10:29
<ogra1>
jus usinf xdg.name.utf8 or something similar makes that tons easier
10:29
<vagrantc>
so, i'm hearing that there is a desire to implement using xdg tools, and resistance ... sounds like no go on the merge of current code.
10:29
<ogra1>
if the format changes we dont need to know about it
10:29
<warren>
vagrantc, no no, current code is fine
10:29
vagrantc, it is distro-neutral and doesn't require any other changes.
10:29
ogra1, gdm itself doesn't use xdg to parse it
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10:30
<ogra1>
why ? thats silly and generates extra work
10:30* ogra1 wonders why we develop standards then
10:30
<warren>
ogra1, i dunno, ask GNOME
10:30
<ogra1>
isnt xdg a standard agreed on by both big desktops ?
10:30
<vagrantc>
ogra1: well, if the standard is stable ... it's not a huge issue
10:31* ogra1 wonders what freedesktop is for then
10:31* vagrantc isn't particularly attached
10:31
<warren>
vagrantc, please push your implementation
10:32* vagrantc will not push if there is contention.
10:32
<warren>
vagrantc, no no, there is disagreement about the final implementation details
10:32
<ogra1>
right
10:32
<warren>
vagrantc, there is no disagreement about the current implementation
10:33
<ogra1>
the feature itself is fine
10:33
<vagrantc>
ok.
10:33
<warren>
vagrantc, the current implementation is an obvious improvement and it helps me to make it just work on fedora sooner.
10:35* vagrantc pushed
10:35* ogra1 break ...
10:35
<vagrantc>
much against ogra1's desires, i still think we need an ldm-server package
10:36
<warren>
vagrantc, containing?
10:36
<ogra1>
as long as its optional
10:36
<vagrantc>
warren: ldminfod
10:36
<ogra1>
warren, ldminfod ?
10:36
<warren>
that's all?
10:36
<vagrantc>
and package dependencies and such
10:36
<ogra1>
it has the potential so bloat
10:36
s/so/to/
10:36
tahst what i fear
10:36
<warren>
If we split out new repositories, PLEASE don't keep all the history from the pre-split LTSP. grabs are huge and slow.
10:36
<kysucix>
hi
10:37
<ogra1>
i want ldm to always be able to work with only an ssh server
10:37
<kysucix>
I've got "short read: 0< 28" during nfs mount? any hint?
10:37
<vagrantc>
ogra1: and i want sane package management
10:37
<ogra1>
vagrantc, if it continues to work like it does noow even without such a package i wont object ;)
10:37
<warren>
vagrantc, let's keep it in ltsp-server for now, I have a feeling that we will do some redefining of the protocol shortly later in order to make it "standardized" and supportable from other clients like maybe gdm.
10:38
vagrantc, no sense moving it until we know what the future looks like.
10:38
<vagrantc>
ogra1: well, right now if you want an application server that isn't providing the root filesystem, then ldm won't know about available languages or sessions or load ...
10:38
<ogra1>
currently ldmionfod is optional ...
10:38
right, it will just use the servers defaults
10:39
and i dont want that to change
10:39
<warren>
vagrantc, you pushed it? I don't see it in pull.
10:39
<vagrantc>
warren: might take a bit
10:39
<warren>
parent branch: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk/
10:39
vagrantc, oh
10:39
<ogra1>
anyway ..... break ...
10:40
<vagrantc>
warren: i pushed revision 503
10:40
and earlier today committed 502
10:40
<warren>
huh...
10:40
<vagrantc>
warren: ah, you're looking at ldm
10:40
warren: this is in ltsp-trunk
10:40
<warren>
oops =)
10:40
<vagrantc>
as i was saying.... :)
10:40
<warren>
vagrantc, ltsp-fedora is diverging too much
10:40
<vagrantc>
i think we should have an ldm server :)
10:40
<warren>
we really need merging
10:41
<vagrantc>
warren: last i looked at the ltsp-fedora diff, main thing that struck me was the run-parts issue ...
10:42
<warren>
vagrantc, you said you were going to write a better way of doing that?
10:42
<vagrantc>
warren: i did?
10:42
<warren>
vagrantc, yeah
10:42
<vagrantc>
i thought i said it needs a better way
10:42
<warren>
vagrantc, rather than merge in the earlier hack that you wrote that I included in ltsp-fedora
10:43
<vagrantc>
warren: yes, that hack is not something i would ever merge upstream
10:43
<warren>
vagrantc, ok, I don't really understand what the goal is there
10:43
<vagrantc>
warren: where?
10:43slidesinger has joined #ltsp
10:44
<warren>
vagrantc, of the hack
10:44staffencasa has joined #ltsp
10:45
<vagrantc>
warren: the goal was to provide a quick and dirty replacement for a missing feature in fedora's run-parts
10:45
<warren>
vagrantc, ok, I recall you saying that you would write a better replacement?
10:45
vagrantc, I don't exactly know what debian's run-parts does.
10:45
<vagrantc>
warren: when i started working on ltsp5 for fedora, it was mostly on the grounds that weekly we would get people asking about ltsp5 for fedora, and eventually i just figured i'd try and get the ball rolling by providing *something*
10:46
warren: run-parts --list (the missing feature) does the same thing run-parts does, except instead of exec'ing the files, it outputs the files
10:47
warren: the simplest place to fix it would be to add the feature to fedora's run-parts
10:47
<warren>
vagrantc, we could do that, but doesn't help us when we want to backport this to previous distros like RHEL5.
10:47
vagrantc, and can you rely upon run-parts to exist and behave exactly the same on all distros?
10:47
vagrantc, should I re-implement a workalike as a function in that script?
10:48
<vagrantc>
warren: yes, i guess replacing it with a work-alike function would probably be the best route for distro-agnosticism
10:48
<warren>
vagrantc, ok I'll try to write that
10:49
vagrantc, with that change we should be able to merge everything in ltsp-fedora into ltsp-trunk?
10:49mischko has joined #ltsp
10:50
<vagrantc>
warren: i don't really like the overly complicated dhcpd.conf
10:50
<warren>
vagrantc, it Just Works and something like it has been shipping by default in K12LTSP for years.
10:50
vagrantc, if you really disapprove we could ship both the old and new and the packager can choose.
10:50
dhcpd-simple.conf
10:50
dhcpd-full.conf
10:51
<ogra1>
vagrantc, didn i see code for handling the run-parts issue already ?
10:51
written by you ?
10:51
<warren>
ogra1, his hack is unsatisfactory
10:51* ogra1 is confused
10:51
<ogra1>
ah
10:51
<vagrantc>
ogra1: it was simply a function that did : ls $@
10:51
<ogra1>
i just remembered there was *something* :)
10:51
<warren>
ogra1, vagrantc: Do you want to provide both simple and full dhcpd.conf and let the packager choose which one they want to use?
10:52
<vagrantc>
yes, and i would never recommend actually using it for a real release
10:52
<warren>
IMHO there is no reason not to use the full dhcpd.conf by default
10:52* ogra1 will provide the simple one thats documenterd everywhere over the place in ubuntu documentation
10:52
<warren>
hm
10:52
should we provide both in ltsp-trunk?
10:53
dhcpd-simple.conf and dhcpd-full.conf
10:53
<vagrantc>
warren: the hard-coded paths are different than what's in debian ...
10:53
<ogra1>
feel free to do whatever you want theer upstrem ...
10:53* warren looks
10:53
<ogra1>
my file is coming from the package already ;)
10:53
<vagrantc>
warren: i.e. /opt/ltsp5 vs. /opt/ltsp ... stuff like that
10:53
<warren>
vagrantc, oops, that's a mistake
10:54
vagrantc, s/ltsp5/ltsp/g and it is matching?
10:54
<ogra1>
in debian a similar file to warrens is shipped by dhcpd already
10:54
i see no need to duplicate that ...
10:54
<vagrantc>
well, it doesn't have all the tasty vender-class-id's
10:55
i actually want to merge those
10:55Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
10:55
<ogra1>
warren, cant you like me ship the file in the packaging data ?
10:56
<warren>
ogra1, we could but currently I have nothing outside of the ltsp-fedora tree as part of the package.
10:56
ogra1, let's put it this way, plenty of files in ltsp-trunk wont ship in our package.
10:56
<ogra1>
lets keep the simplest default in upstream imho ...
10:56
<warren>
ogra1, and we don't mind.
10:56
ogra1, why does it matter if you don't use it anyway?
10:56
<ogra1>
which would be vagrants version atm ...
10:57
mine is cut down more, yours is totally confusing
10:57
<warren>
but it just works
10:57
K12LTSP has been shipping it this way for years by default
10:57
<ogra1>
you will need to have to edit it
10:57
as soon as you want different IP ranges
10:57
<warren>
that's fine
10:58
<ogra1>
that means a simple mind should be able to roughly grasp whats going on
10:58
<warren>
ogra1, if you don't use it then why does it bother you?
10:58
<ogra1>
because i think its a usability issue
10:58
it doesnt bother me at all from a distro maintainer POV
10:58
<warren>
ogra1, please don't make assumptions about our users, stick to your own users.
10:58kysucix has quit IRC
10:58
<ogra1>
it does though from an upstream coder POV
10:59
<warren>
ogra1, K12LTSP users are USED TO having this by default. Our users have slightly different expectations based upon the past.
10:59
<ogra1>
smart guys that know dhcpd in and out wont need to understand the file ... they know what they are doing
10:59
<warren>
ogra1, I suspect that in the future we will make it blank by default and configurable by a GUI interface, but we aren't there yet.
10:59
<ogra1>
right, thats a longstanding plan
11:00
<warren>
ogra1, again, this doesn't effect you, so why are you opposed to it?
11:00
<ogra1>
i started a lot of tools already ...
11:00
<warren>
ogra1, there are lots of files in ltsp-trunk that we wont ship in our package and that doesn't bother us.
11:00
<ogra1>
warren, i state my opinion ...
11:00
<warren>
ogra1, after we get past this hurdle we'll look at helping that longer term goal.
11:00
<ogra1>
i wont stop you from merging it ...
11:01
<warren>
vagrantc, ok, s/ltsp5/ltsp/g and it is roughly OK for Debian?
11:01
<vagrantc>
warren: at first glace, probably. maybe other similar tweaks
11:01
<warren>
vagrantc, like?
11:01
<vagrantc>
warren: i'm reviewing the whole diff now
11:01
<ogra1>
warren, that'd be cool ... did i ever show you http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/ ? that could need an adopter :) i never found one
11:02
<warren>
ogra1, when we get there we will look at it and help it
11:03
vagrantc, I'm getting food, brb
11:03Q-FUNK has quit IRC
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11:14
<vagrantc>
warren: the filename entries are inconsistant with debian/ubuntu filename entries ... i'd be fine with it if we went the dhcpd.conf-detailed + dhcpd.conf-simple route ... maybe could even use dhcpd's include mechanism ... also, when we switched to ltsp5, we started using different (than ltsp 4.x) server ip addresses ...
11:16mischko has quit IRC
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11:33
<vagrantc>
warren: when you're back ... i'm happy to merge everything but the dhcpd.conf stuff, and then i can put that into dhcpd.conf.k12ltsp unmodified or something like that
11:34nicoAMG has joined #ltsp
11:34
<vagrantc>
ogra1: any other thoughts on merging the ltsp-fedora branch?
11:35
<Gadi>
hey, guys - whats the preferred ldm branch to bzr to submit patches against? Should I branch off of gutsy or branch off of the new packages you are putting together?
11:39
<vagrantc>
Gadi: branch off of these branches: https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/
11:39
<Gadi>
ok - has the ldm code changed at all from gutsy or just moved around?
11:39
<vagrantc>
Gadi: some changes, but i don't think anything huge
11:40zodma1 has joined #ltsp
11:40
<Gadi>
okey dokey - I have a list of rather minor things I want to hack in
11:41
also, has anyone experimented with a static compile of ldm?
11:42
<warren>
vagrantc, ok, a separate filename for dhcpd.conf is fine
11:42
vagrantc, dhcpd-k12linux.conf
11:42
<Gadi>
it might improve speed and portability between distros?
11:42
<warren>
vagrantc, I'll check it into ltsp-fedora
11:42
Gadi, not worthwhile IMHO
11:42
<Gadi>
because...
11:43
<warren>
who would actually need it?
11:43
Gadi, and with what we want to add to ldm's gtk interface in the future it would get WAY too huge static.
11:44
<Gadi>
well, right now the gtk is separate from the backend
11:44
I meant static compile of the backend
11:47
<warren>
oh
11:47
still, what does that gain us?
11:48Gad1 has joined #ltsp
11:54
<warren>
vagrantc, what exactly needs to be filtered out of the run-parts --list workalike?
11:55DonSilver has quit IRC
11:56
<vagrantc>
warren: from the run-parts man page on debian: "the names must consist entirely of upper and lower case letters, digits, underscores, and hyphens."
11:56
warren: on debian, it's implemented in C ... on fedora, it looks like it was implemented in shell
11:57
warren: so you can probably steal code from fedora's version
11:57DonSilver has joined #ltsp
12:00
<warren>
vagrantc, how long has run-parts in debian gone without any changes?
12:00
vagrantc, years?
12:01
vagrantc, does it have its own package in debian?
12:01
<vagrantc>
warren: it's part of debianutils
12:01
warren: not sure how long it's gone unchanged ...
12:01
http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/d/debianutils/current/changelog
12:02
warren: there's been recent changes in 2007
12:02iMacGyve1 is now known as iMacGyver
12:02
<warren>
hm
12:03
<vagrantc>
warren: i think mostly relatively minor changes, but 1-3 changes per year
12:03
<iMacGyver>
is there a way to set client ip addresses through the lts.conf file?
12:04Gadi has quit IRC
12:04
<warren>
vagrantc, I'll separately look into updating our run-parts to match in Fedora 9
12:04
but not now
12:04
hmm
12:04
the code of our run-parts really sucks
12:04
not sure I really want to duplicate it =)
12:07
<vagrantc>
warren: alright, pushing ltsp-trunk
12:07
<warren>
vagrantc, what are you pushing?
12:08
<vagrantc>
warren: merged everything except the run-parts hacks
12:08
<warren>
vagrantc, oh
12:08
vagrantc, ok
12:08
vagrantc, I'm working on the run-parts part now
12:22
vagrantc, Debian's run-parts --list lists a script even if it isn't executable?
12:23
<cliebow>
brb
12:23cliebow has quit IRC
12:23
<vagrantc>
warren: correct
12:24
warren: which is perfect for our case, since we're sourcing them they shouldn't be marked executable anyways
12:24
<warren>
vagrantc, ok, just verifying
12:26
<vagrantc>
i just put out a request for new and updated gettext translations ... should seen them coming in in the next 1-2 weeks.
12:28
hmm... ldm's *.desktop code doesn't actually handle overriding the defaults
12:28
i guess the old code didn't either, so it's no real loss
12:29
<warren>
vagrantc, http://people.redhat.com/wtogami/temp/run_parts_list.patch
12:29
vagrantc, how does that look?
12:29
vagrantc, unfortunately I noticed just now that MODULE_BASE in ltsp-build-client is no longer correct
12:29
vagrantc, we moved it to GNU's libexecdir/ldm
12:30
vagrantc, which is /usr/lib on Debian and /usr/libexec on Fedora
12:30
vagrantc, mind if I add [ -e /usr/libexec/ldm/something ] && MODULE_BASE=... ?
12:30
vagrantc, we'll need autodetection in several places unfortunately
12:31
vagrantc, we should make variable setting in one common script sourced by other scripts
12:32
<vagrantc>
warren: are you talking ldm, or ltsp-build-client ?
12:32
warren: i was hoping we could keep those in /usr/share since they're sourced and not executed
12:33kalib has joined #ltsp
12:33
<kalib>
anyone can help me with cdstatus?
12:33
i need to use it in a shellscript, but i don't know how can i do it...
12:38Skarmeth has joined #ltsp
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12:41
<vagrantc>
warren: regarding run_parts_list ... it seems to only catch a very tiny number of possible files
12:43
warren: we could easily catch all those with [ "${i%.*}" != "${i}" ]
12:43
warren: and i think you want [ ! -d $i ]
12:44
or rather [ ! -d "${i}" ]
12:44
er, nevermind
12:44
on that last ...
12:45
warren: it doesn't look like it will handle empty dirs well either ...
12:46* vagrantc thinks on an alternate proposal
12:49zodma1 is now known as zodman
12:55
<warren>
vagrantc, huh? doesn't it just print nothing on empty dir?
12:58
<vagrantc>
warren: for a in $(mktemp -d)/*[^~,] ; do echo $a ; done
12:58
warren: outputs ....
12:58
/tmp/tmp.OSxGYF6060/*[^~,]
12:58mikkel_ has joined #ltsp
12:59
<warren>
vagrantc, oops
13:00
<vagrantc>
warren: i'm using find ...
13:00
<warren>
vagrantc, ok so you're writing it?
13:00
<vagrantc>
find -L $1 -mindepth 1 -maxdepth 1 -type f
13:00
warren: well, i'm working on it ..
13:01
having a bit of a hard time figuring out exactly how to do the regex ...
13:01
<warren>
ok I'll see how your implementation goes and work on something else for now
13:02
huge pile of something else =(
13:02
<vagrantc>
heh
13:15
<jammcq>
did sbalneav ever make it back?
13:16bartolomeo80 has joined #ltsp
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13:22
<drcode>
hi all
13:22
any one up
13:22
here?
13:23* vagrantc wonders if drcode is Gadi
13:24
<drcode>
wow
13:24
yes
13:25
how do you know?
13:25
<johnny>
magic
13:25
err magick
13:25
<drcode>
nice
13:25
I am supprized
13:26
<johnny>
not really magick... your hostmask tells us..
13:30cdealer has quit IRC
13:30* warren thinks "silent.wav" whenever he sees Gadi now.
13:32
<ltsppbot>
"vagrantc" pasted "run_parts_list" (74 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/430
13:32
<vagrantc>
warren: it works ... dog slow, but it works
13:32
oops... i double-pasted it
13:33bartolomeojsimps has quit IRC
13:33
<drcode>
vagrantc: do U know me?
13:33
<vagrantc>
drcode: unless i've got you mixed up with some other gadi ...
13:34
drcode: which i'm beginning to suspect
13:34bartolomeo80 has quit IRC
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13:34
<bartolomeojsimps>
hi
13:35
<vagrantc>
warren: it actually compares every single character against the known good list ...
13:35
<bartolomeojsimps>
i'm trying to run twinkle as a local application but it seems to be imposible to use the sound card of the thin client
13:35
<drcode>
k
13:35
no
13:35
I dont think so
13:35
U are from israel?
13:35
<vagrantc>
bartolomeojsimps: not impossible, just you have to understand how to do it
13:36
<bartolomeojsimps>
wolud you help me?
13:36
<vagrantc>
bartolomeojsimps: it is fairly complicated- i don't think i can help you
13:37
bartolomeojsimps: you just have to think of the LTSP client like any other computer, and set it up to run all applications locally
13:37
bartolomeojsimps: and set up network authentication
13:37
bartolomeojsimps: and mount the home directories off the network
13:38
<warren>
vagrantc, is that really necessary?
13:38
<drcode>
vagrantc:from where do U know me?
13:38
<vagrantc>
bartolomeojsimps: the core basics are in /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/workstation
13:38
<warren>
vagrantc, how often does it run? not a big deal?
13:38
<vagrantc>
drcode: i think i thought you were Gad1 , who often is in here as Gadi
13:39
warren: currently, it's only used when we build the thin client
13:39
<warren>
vagrantc, ok, not a big deal then.
13:39
vagrantc, you pushed that up?
13:39
<vagrantc>
warren: i think it is necessary to remain compliant ... a smart regex could likely improve speed dramatically
13:40
warren: but i'm a little regex dense
13:40
<warren>
me too
13:40
<drcode>
ltsp is compared to MS Terminal server
13:40
<johnny>
a really smart one.. or a really dumb one .. :)
13:40
<drcode>
I have few qustions
13:40
<johnny>
in the middle you have trouble ;)
13:41
<drcode>
1. can I run thine client from firefox? 2. Can I share audio,video,files between client and server?
13:41
<johnny>
1. no
13:42
<vagrantc>
drcode: 1. do you mean run firefox from the thin client?
13:42
<johnny>
drcode, you network boot the thin clients
13:42
and then you can run applications
13:43
<vagrantc>
drcode: 2. typically, you don't share any files between the server, you display video and audio from the server on the client
13:43
<drcode>
I mean if I am in pc , I can connect to ltsp by client prog
13:43
<johnny>
no
13:43
that's soething like rdesktop or vnc
13:43
<drcode>
like citrix, MSTerminal?
13:43
yes
13:43
<johnny>
you would just use those
13:44
<drcode>
can I also do it from firefox, without client install?
13:44
<johnny>
that's not what ltsp is
13:44
<vagrantc>
warren: no, i haven't pushed that, because it's really poorly implemented... a one-liner in perl or sed could probably match it properly in 1/100th the time
13:44
<johnny>
and no
13:44
unless you're accessing a site with some activex or java thing that does it for you
13:44
but that's not what ltsp is for
13:44
<drcode>
ltsp dos't work like rdp or vnc?
13:44
<johnny>
no
13:44
they already do the job
13:45
it's for running computers with no hard drives
13:45
from a server
13:45* vagrantc wonders if drcode and johnny are having an X server / X client confusion mixup
13:45
<johnny>
vagrantc, no
13:45
he is .. he doesn't know what ltsp is for
13:45
<jammcq>
LTSP is an operating system for thin clients
13:45
<johnny>
he thinks of it like windows terminal services
13:46
<drcode>
I see
13:46Guaraldo has left #ltsp
13:46* vagrantc thinks there is a lot of confusion flying around and best to clear that up before making definitive answers
13:46
<johnny>
i think the confusion is gone
13:46
vagrantc, did i miss any patches to ldm for fixing autologin ?
13:46
<drcode>
and if I dont have ThinkClient?
13:46
<johnny>
are you distributing one in your debian patches
13:47
then you don't use ltsp :)
13:47
you use other vnc or rdesktop programs
13:47
<drcode>
I see
13:47
<johnny>
or freenx
13:47
<jammcq>
or an Xserver on your windows machine, to connect to the server
13:47
<vagrantc>
johnny: no, i tried the patches and they didn't work: http://bugs.debian.org/ldm
13:47
<drcode>
is there somthing like citrix in linux?
13:47
<jammcq>
X can be like citrix
13:47
NX is probably the closest to citrix
13:48
<johnny>
vagrantc, there is a patch for it on launchpad that francis made
13:48
<drcode>
k
13:48
<johnny>
and that works
13:48
<drcode>
thanx
13:48
<jammcq>
drcode: check nomachine.com
13:48
<johnny>
i'm using it right now :)
13:48
<jammcq>
it's not free tho
13:48
<johnny>
but freenx is
13:48
<jammcq>
yeah, but is freenx still being maintained?
13:49bartolomeojsimps has quit IRC
13:49
<johnny>
if it's not.. that would suck
13:50
vagrantc, ogra said the patch did a lil too much to apply as is for gutsy, but i didn't know enough C to simplify it
13:50
or enough about t he ltsp arch and such
13:51
want me to link you?
13:52
<drcode>
jammcq: it based on freenx?
13:52
<vagrantc>
warren: think i found a regex
13:53
<jammcq>
drcode: it's the other way around. Nomachine's NX is the official NX. Freenx is a free implementation of it
13:53
<drcode>
k
13:53sepski has joined #ltsp
13:53
<vagrantc>
johnny: sure, toss me a URL ... not that my C is any good ...
13:54
<johnny>
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/161794
13:54
patches on the left
13:55
i can tell you that it works in my install
14:01
<ltsppbot>
"vagrantc" pasted "run_parts_list" (21 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/431
14:01
<vagrantc>
yay
14:13
warren: pushed run_parts_list to ltsp-trunk
14:14drcode has left #ltsp
14:15
<warren>
vagrantc, thanks
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14:49
<vagrantc>
johnny: part of that patch didn't apply cleanly ... but it seemed to work
14:49kalib has quit IRC
14:50
<vagrantc>
johnny: oh wait ... i am mistaken.
14:50
pfft. i am mistaken about being mistaken.
14:51
<johnny>
about it working ? or applying?
14:51
<vagrantc>
i was testing how it behaved when an incorrect password for autologin was supplied
14:52
<johnny>
ldm itself doesn't behave nicely
14:52
with the wrong password
14:52
without autologin
14:55
<vagrantc>
indeed.
14:55
johnny: well, based on that patch you pointed me to, i think i've got a patch that works.
14:55
<johnny>
sweet
14:55
it'd be nice to drop my patched ldm
14:56IRCzito has joined #ltsp
14:56
<vagrantc>
unfortunately, i don't think it will apply cleanly upstream ... there were some changes done
15:00
looks like part of the changes were already applied upstream, just not all of them
15:01
<lns>
anyone using koolu thin clients w/ltsp?
15:05mikkel_ has quit IRC
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15:23
<vagrantc>
johnny: applied patch to upstream ldm
15:23
johnny: do you use debian or ubuntu?
15:24chupacabra has joined #ltsp
15:24
<johnny>
ubuntu
15:30
<vagrantc>
well, i can't promise when ubuntu will take it, but i'll try and get it in debian soon :)
15:31
<johnny>
one day i'll get time for timed autologins
15:31
in ldm
15:31
that's what i really want
15:31* vagrantc wants some crazy moderately complicated options
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15:41
<warren>
vagrantc, ugh, the Xsessions.d thing is completely different on our distro
15:41
vagrantc, seems like distros implemented it completely independently of each other
15:43
<johnny>
yes :(
15:43
i have that problem in sabayon tool
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15:50
<vagrantc>
warren: that reminds me, i need to remove the Xsessions.d hook for debian ... it's only useful on ubuntu
15:51
warren: or at least, debian doesn't have the ubuntu-specific patches to make it useful
15:53
<warren>
vagrantc, what exactly does it do?
15:54
<vagrantc>
warren: it sets alsa to use pulseaudio
15:54
<warren>
oh
15:54
we have something else to do that already
15:55
and ALSA -> pulseaudio is default already
15:55
<vagrantc>
lucky for you :)
15:56
<warren>
or unlucky
15:56
pulseaudio isn't too stable
15:57
<lns>
warren, what's unstable about it? i've been using it for a while with no issues
15:57
<warren>
lns, its ALSA emulation is less than perfect, some apps don't work at all
15:57
it crashes sometimes
15:58
<lns>
warren, which apps?
15:58
i only know of audacity
15:58
<warren>
lns, Flash can crash it sometimes...
15:58
<lns>
hmm
15:58
<warren>
lns, some apps linked to pulseaudio native can cause both pulseaudio daemon and the app to segfault
15:58
<vagrantc>
alsaplayer doesn't work with alsa -> pulseaudio
15:59
<warren>
pulseaudio library native interface makes xine and mplayer unstable
15:59
<vagrantc>
but is it worse than the alternatives?
15:59
that's the real question
15:59
<warren>
pidgin crashes when using alsa emulation
16:00
<lns>
jeez, i thought pulseaudio was the best/supported solution for ltsp
16:01
<warren>
It is
16:01
lns, you just discover a lot more of its problems when you use it by default on your flagship desktop distro
16:01
lns, Fedora 8+ uses it all the time by default
16:02
lns, we employ the main developer of pulseaudio, he's steadily pounding bugs out of it...
16:03
<lns>
warren, do you work at revolutionlinux?
16:03
<warren>
lns, no
16:03
lns, Red Hat
16:03
<lns>
oh
16:03
nice
16:03
=)
16:05
well with my (limited compared to you) experience, pulseaudio has done pretty well in our ubuntu LTSP labs
16:05
so i'm sure the bugs are at least fairly specific to certain apps
16:05
<warren>
yes they are
16:05
and when you are running multiple apps at the same time
16:06
<kaos01>
anyone know how i can build e1000-7.6.15 for ubunto LTSP
16:06
<lns>
warren, well you definitely have my support if you need help testing pulse with ltsp/ubuntu
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16:12
<kaos01>
also anyone know why my client would die when i run glxinfo on it ?
16:14
<warren>
kaos01, VIA chipset?
16:14
kaos01, some video drivers like VIA blow up when you attempt to use dri
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16:21
<kaos01>
warren, its a Intel
16:22
Intel(R) 82566DM-2 Gigabit Network Connectio
16:22
<warren>
kaos01, I have no idea then
16:22
kaos01, that isn't a video card
16:22
<kaos01>
actually its not the 82566DM-2 :) thats the NIC i cant get to work :)
16:22
warren, well i done startx on the client and ran glxgear/glxinfo with no problems
16:23
<warren>
I know nothing about your problem
16:23
and I can't even get Ubuntu to install on my kvm
16:23
<kaos01>
either do I :P
16:23
its the first time i "installed" ubunto as well,
16:24
its not even a "life system" as its only used on the client side
16:24
so its unpacked in /opt/ltsp-5 on fedora :)
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16:48* vagrantc is having trouble getting ldm-trunk bzr to work with the greeter
16:50
<vagrantc>
ah ... didn't pass --libexecdir=/usr/lib to ./configure
16:56
<ltsppbot>
"vagrantc" pasted "build warnings" (8 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/432
16:56
<vagrantc>
hmmm... wonder what that's about
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19:15
<jammcq>
!seen sbalneav
19:15
<ltspbot>
jammcq: sbalneav was last seen in #ltsp 9 hours, 17 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: <sbalneav> someones sent folder didn't come a cross.
19:15
<jammcq>
heh
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21:13
<dell_lin>
how do i add nfs server to fedora 8
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21:55
<RiXtEr>
hey all what would be the regex for finding '58G' using grep ... thats (digit)(digit)G
22:13
<loather-work>
read man regex lately? [[:digit:]]\{2\}G
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