IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 29 October 2008   (all times are UTC)

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04:23
<ninou>
hi
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07:30
<jammcq>
g'morning friends
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09:30* sutula returns jammcq's good morning, since nobody else will :)
09:31* ogra is swamped in final release tests for ubuntu ...
09:31
<ogra>
morning jammcq
09:31
:)
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09:59
<Stonekeeper>
hi. I've got my first ltsp install here. It seems that i need to configure an nbd-server config. Is there a URL or a guide on how to do this? many thanks.
10:00
<johnny>
Stonekeeper, unlikely..
10:00
it should already be configured on ubuntu
10:00
and no other distro "requires" nbd
10:01
<Stonekeeper>
interesting, it's blank
10:01
from what i've read nbd > nfs?
10:01
<johnny>
what's blank?
10:01
<Stonekeeper>
the config
10:01
<johnny>
what config?
10:02
<Stonekeeper>
ah, nm, it's booted anyway. we needed to update the chroot environment
10:02
sorry for bothering you!
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10:35
<ninkendo>
anyone have any success with running a vostro 200 as a client in ltsp?
10:36
it was kernel panicking for not being able to find any network cards (it's an intel e1000), and so I built the driver from source from the latest version from intel's website...
10:36
and it looks like that worked, but now I get dropped to a busybox promt after it's unable to mount a root filesystem
10:37
(after like a 5 minute delay in boot that appears to be associated with trying to find the nbdroot server)
10:38
<sbalneav>
Morning all
10:38
<jammcq>
Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10:38
<sbalneav>
Hey jammcq
10:38
7 more sleeps :)
10:41
ninkendo: What server OS are you using?
10:41
Also, what version of LTSP?
10:42
<ninkendo>
sbalneav: hardy, version 5
10:42
it looks like the busybox prompt thing is on all hardware now, so I've rolled back to an earlier kernel/initrd
10:43
I'm going to try and use an older version of the intel driver... there's some people on the ubuntu forums who have reported this, and said it was fixed with the 7.6.5 version of the driver: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=552080
10:44
<sbalneav>
Did you use the mkinitramfs tools to rebuild the initramfs?
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10:50
<ninkendo>
sbalneav: yeah
10:50
at the busybox prompt, `modprobe e1000` shows the new version and copyright information
10:50
so I know it's built in properly
10:50
but then calling "ifconfig -a" shows only lo, no eth0
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11:58
<cliebow>
jammcq:how would you branch if an array is empty in perl?
11:59
<Stonekeeper>
I'm getting a really long delay between pressing logout and getting the logout option dialog in ubuntu. Anyone know anything about this? thanks.
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12:02
<vagrantc>
Stonekeeper: is gnome-power-manager installed?
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12:03
<vagrantc>
there was a bug in debian, and i think in ubuntu at some point, causing weird issues delaying logout...
12:04
the workaround was to start an application from the gnome menu.
12:07
<Nubae>
didja guys get your free copies of crossover?
12:09* ogra wonders why he should
12:09
<Nubae>
cause u can :-)
12:09
free stuff is always useful
12:10
<ogra>
free as in beer ... pfft ... that actually only makes sense with beer :P
12:11
<sbalneav>
Stonekeeper: I found it was the system Dbus that was off in the reeds. I restarted the dbus, and it worked.
12:12
<Nubae>
ogra: u don't game at all?
12:12
<ogra>
Nubae, i got an Xbox :) the only things MS does well are gaming consoles and input devices :)
12:12
<Nubae>
xbox has no crysis
12:13
<johnny>
i doubt crossover plays crysis well..
12:13
<Nubae>
yeah kinda blows my point... but still
12:13
<ogra>
well, i have a first gen XboX ... it doesnt have most games ... but was paid for by MS ;)
12:13
<johnny>
regular wine does enough
12:13
<Nubae>
its a year contract, and within a year it will play crysis
12:13
<johnny>
i don't need crossover..
12:13
if it ain't in wine..
12:13
it'll be there eventually
12:13
<Nubae>
well, its just easier to use
12:14
bottles instead of hours spend configuring
12:15
<johnny>
isn't wine-doors supposed to that?
12:15
<Nubae>
it doesnt quite do what crossover does, but works similarly yeah
12:15* ogra prefers sauerbraten if it comes to games on linux
12:15
<Nubae>
I dont play much, but crysis is amazing
12:15
so much fun to play with a couple friends lanwise
12:15
<ogra>
but since i only play about once a year i dont really care
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12:20
<Stonekeeper>
sbalneav: thanks. I'll try that!
12:20
<sbalneav>
My kids play Warcraft 3 under Linux w/crossover. I usually either play Warzone 2100, Wesnoth. Or, if I'm in the mood, I re-play portal through for the 500'th time on the X-bawks
12:20
That game never gets old for me.
12:22
<Stonekeeper>
sbalneav: nah, didn't work. just killed the mouse ;)
12:22
<Nubae>
portal is cool
12:23
half life 2 wasnt bad either
12:25
<sbalneav>
I just like shooting portals in the ceiling and floor and watching myself fall :)
12:25
That just never, ever gets old.
12:25
<Nubae>
lol
12:25
<Stonekeeper>
i'm addicted to tremulous
12:25
<_UsUrPeR_>
have you had a chance to play the portal prequel?
12:26
oh, also: World of Goo
12:26
<johnny>
warcraft3 works fine without crossover sbalneav
12:26
<sbalneav>
"So you found me. Congratulations. But despite all your violent behaviour, the only thing you've managed to break so far... is my heart."
12:26
<johnny>
been doing it for over a year
12:27
<_UsUrPeR_>
:)
12:27
<ogra>
did anyone ever play hacknoid ?
12:27
it ws a default included in IRIX
12:27
<Nubae>
arkanoid clone?
12:28
<ogra>
a 3D GL variant of breakout/arkanoid, yes
12:28
<_UsUrPeR_>
hmm
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12:28
<sbalneav>
Yeah, I know it plays under plain wine, but I really think what Crossover's doing with the mixed Free/Commercial model is great. It's a fantastic model, plus, codeweavers has done some super work for Legal Aid in the past, so I always buy the latest version of crossover, if for no other reason than to support a busines that I see is doing good work.
12:28
<ogra>
you move your paddle 3 dimensionsl at the bottom of a cube
12:29
<Nubae>
sbalneav: plus they just did that lame duck thingy...
12:29
<_UsUrPeR_>
kind of like powerball for the NES? With the powerglove? :)
12:29* ogra never played NES
12:29
<_UsUrPeR_>
:O
12:29* Nubae reminisces over zelda and zelda 2
12:30
<Nubae>
those were games...
12:30
<ogra>
pong !
12:30
<_UsUrPeR_>
marble madness
12:30
<Lns>
double dragon 2 !!!!
12:30
<ogra>
pong !
12:30
<Nubae>
heh
12:30
<ogra>
unbeaten
12:30
<_UsUrPeR_>
kid icarus?
12:30
<Nubae>
new zealand story
12:30
<ogra>
pong !
12:30
:)
12:30
<_UsUrPeR_>
:)
12:31
I think the earliest I can recollect is not pong, but probably adventure for the Atari
12:31
and river raid
12:31
<Nubae>
frogger
12:31* Lns used to play Ms. Pacman & Donkey Kong on C=64
12:31
<_UsUrPeR_>
pole position
12:31
<ogra>
frogger !! yeah
12:31* sbalneav remembers dumping quarters into the PacMan machine at the mall during lunchours in high school
12:31
<ogra>
though i had pong nefore my VIC 20
12:31
*before
12:32
<Nubae>
my first computer was a spectrum
12:32
128k!
12:32
<ogra>
pfft
12:32
<Lns>
hehe
12:32
<ogra>
VIC20, 3.5k :)
12:32
<_UsUrPeR_>
mine was an Apple IIe Laser! :|
12:32
<Lns>
go commodore 64!
12:32
<_UsUrPeR_>
I wish I had gotten a commodore
12:32
<Nubae>
amiga was the shit though
12:32
still have 2 of them
12:32
<sbalneav>
My first computer was a ZX-81 I built from a kit, with 1K of ram.
12:32
<ogra>
i had a self soldered 16k extension board later
12:33
<Lns>
Nubae: you should ask vagrantc about putting debain on it ;)
12:33
<Nubae>
that works? really?
12:33
<ogra>
sure
12:33
<sbalneav>
Then I got into C= computers (Vic, 64, +4, C16, 128) didn't get an amiga though
12:33
<ogra>
68k powerpc
12:33
<sbalneav>
got into pc's at that point. First was a PC clone
12:33
<Nubae>
yeah with 2 floppy drives
12:34
no hard disk
12:34* Stonekeeper had an aquarius
12:34
<Stonekeeper>
with burger time
12:34
<Nubae>
and an acorn
12:34
<Lns>
back then, hard disks were commonly known as 3.5" floppies :p
12:34
<ogra>
the first PC clone i saw was about 10000,- deutschmarks
12:34
no way for a student to ever pay that
12:34
<Nubae>
in school we had bbc computers...
12:34
learned basic on that
12:34
<Stonekeeper>
*remote
12:34
<sbalneav>
BBC Micro FTW!
12:34
<Stonekeeper>
muhuhh
12:35
best.command.evar on bbc micro
12:35
<sbalneav>
I always wanted one of those, but I couldn't get one in Canada
12:35
They were supposed to be awesome.
12:35
<ogra>
ebay might have them now :)
12:35
<sbalneav>
They were 6809 based, right?
12:35
<Nubae>
yeah people loved doing adventure games on them
12:35
<Stonekeeper>
CAVE
12:35
<sbalneav>
The ZX81 had a Z80
12:35
<Stonekeeper>
we played CAVE on bbcs in school
12:35
<ogra>
yeah
12:36
<sbalneav>
and C was 6502
12:36
<ogra>
i always wnated a zx81
12:36
<Nubae>
yeah me too
12:36
<ogra>
but didnt get one
12:36
my parents got me a VIC and a datasette
12:36
<sbalneav>
lol the datasette
12:36
<Nubae>
heh, the colored bars and freaky sounds
12:37
<Stonekeeper>
blearh, udev is trying to connect to ldap pre-network setup. wtf...
12:37
<sbalneav>
The Zx81 was trippy loading from tape
12:37
<_UsUrPeR_>
datasette = cassette tape, correct?
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12:38
<_UsUrPeR_>
I remember using an Atari that had one of those
12:38
<sbalneav>
http://www2.b3ta.com/heyhey16k/
12:38
The best video you'll watch today, guarenteed.
12:39
<ogra>
datasette remonds me ... my GF bought a netbook last weekend ... lots of software came with it ... all on CDroms :P
12:40
(indeed the netbook doesnt have a CD Rom ...)
12:40
the greatest was that it had PowerDVD (even with a sticker on the box)
12:41
<Nubae>
lol
12:41
<_UsUrPeR_>
Anyone remember Archon?
12:41
<ogra>
sometimes you start questioning the sanity of marketing depts.
12:41
<_UsUrPeR_>
I wish someone would make a new version of that
12:41
<sbalneav>
Sometimes?
12:42
<ogra>
heh
12:42* ogra declares it beer'o clock
12:43
<sbalneav>
http://isitbeeroclock.com/
12:43
Apparently, it's the same time here
12:43
<ogra>
:)
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12:53
<cliebow>
yippee!!
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13:31
<warren>
ogra: vagrantc, stgraber: Please see my post to ltsp-developer list. I am moving ldminfod to ldm-trunk later today.
13:31
<ogra>
ugh
13:31
why?
13:31
that makes packging quite complicated
13:32
<stgraber>
ogra: hmm, I actually wanted to split ldminfod to another binary package, so it's fine for me :)
13:32
<ogra>
ok
13:32
your call
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13:32
<stgraber>
ogra: for ltsp-cluster we want ldminfod on our app servers but we don't need all the other ltsp-server things (nbd, squashfs-tools, tftp, ...)
13:32
<ogra>
i usually refuse to depend on anything server side and lose all flexibility
13:33
stgraber, but please make sure it still works without ldminfod
13:33
up to now all you need is an ssh server serverside
13:33
<stgraber>
ogra: yeah, it works fine without it but better with it :)
13:34
<ogra>
right, thats fine
13:34
but i want people to be able to use i.e. a slackware server with ssh installed if they like to as app server
13:34
<stgraber>
sure
13:34
<warren>
the ldm implementation isn't complete yet
13:35
it doesn't search the server for Xsession if ldminfod didn't tell it the location
13:35
but that's the goal
13:35
<ogra>
well, that should be easily addable by an rc script
13:35
<warren>
yeah
13:35
<ogra>
if i werent rewriting the gui atm i'D look at it
13:36
but i want to focus on one thing to get it implemented properly and my ltsp time is very limited
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13:44
<ogra>
warren, do you make sure the install bits for all other inetd's get properly copied as well ?
13:45* ogra cant remember if we had specifc setups upstream or only in the ostinst scripts of the package, but if there are any please dont miss them
13:45
<ogra>
*postinst
13:45
<vagrantc>
ogra: it's just handled in postinst
13:45
<ogra>
oki
13:45
then i wont complain :)
13:45
<vagrantc>
so that part of the postinst will need to be moved to the ldm-server package as well
13:46
<ogra>
just wanted to make sure nothing is lost
13:46
indeed
13:46
but thats packaging work :)
13:46
<vagrantc>
bascially, it works just as good as it did before (i.e. hard-coded client-side paths) but it will respect Xsession passed via ldminfod
13:46
<ogra>
well, the rc script should be really trivial
13:46
<vagrantc>
actually, it will prefer the Xsession passed via ldminfod, falling back to the old stuff
13:47
<warren>
ogra: each packager has to deal with their own inetd
13:47
<vagrantc>
i couldn't figure out where to hook it in using rc.d ... so i didn't bother.
13:47
<ogra>
warren, right, i was just confused because you described it so detailed in your mail
13:48
and couldnt remember where we did it in ubuntu/debian
13:48
<warren>
i'm upgrading my laptop, bbl
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14:21
<nicoAMG>
Hello...
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14:24
<nicoAMG>
I'm setting up a Ubuntu system as LTSP server. The system is using the generic Linux kernel. Can i use the server kernel instead ? I'm reading at: https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/serverguide/C/preparing-to-install.html#intro-server-differences
14:24
Any advice?
14:28
<ogra>
nicoAMG, use the alternate desktop CD in any case, you need a desktop server side to log in to ... but then you can easily install the linux-server package
14:28
you will definately need it if you want to have more than 3G in your server
14:30
<nicoAMG>
ogra, thank you... i'm installing the linux-image-server kernel package right now
14:36
<babyhuey>
where do i set the default window manager at? i cant find the place
14:36
i have to select it everytime i log in
14:36
or it goes to "last" which does nothing
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14:37
<ogra>
babyhuey, depends on your distro
14:37
<babyhuey>
ubuntu server 8.04
14:38
<ogra>
sudo update-alternatives --config x-session-manager
14:39
select the oe you want
14:39
*one
14:39
<babyhuey>
No alternatives for x-session-manager.
14:41
<ogra>
what kind of session do you tra to select then ?
14:41
*ry
14:41
properly integrated ones will install the alternative
14:42
<babyhuey>
i just want it to boot blackbox and run a program right at boot
14:42
right at wm load*
14:42
<ogra>
well, you can always either put a ~/.xsession file in place
14:42
or create a proper session file
14:44
<babyhuey>
alright, im updating the image now
14:45
<ogra>
err, ~/.xsession lives on the server in the users homedir
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15:03
<babyhuey>
ok, i have it the way i want it, but it is etherboot and when i have the client load the pxelinux.0 it says its not a valid image
15:03
<ogra>
make sure it loads the nbi image
15:03
the shipped dhcpd.conf should autoselect that though ... i wonder why it doesnt
15:06
<babyhuey>
im not using the one with the ltsp server
15:06
we already have one setup
15:06
there is: option option-128 e4:45:74:68:00:00; option option-129 "MOPTS=nolock,ro,wsize=2048,rsize=2048";
15:06
on the old setup
15:06
do i need those?
15:06
<ogra>
nope
15:07
<babyhuey>
wonder why those are there then
15:07
<ogra>
ubuntu doesnt use nfs anymore (since over a year)
15:07
just have a look at the shipped dhcpd.conf
15:07
its quite easy
15:07
<babyhuey>
i dont see anything definitive
15:08
should i put "filename nbi.img" in the dhcpd.conf?
15:09
<alkisg>
babyjuey, try to use the newer version of etherboot (=gpxe), it uses pxelinux.0 and it's much better
15:09
<babyhuey>
i dont really have a way to update
15:09
it is the original thin client from disklessworkstations.com
15:09
<alkisg>
How do you use etherboot? on floppies?
15:10
OK then just try filename nbi.img
15:10
<babyhuey>
k
15:10
brb
15:15
still the same deal
15:16
wait, nvm
15:16
typo
15:17
mk, now its hanging on "Loading, please wait..."
15:17
sorry to be such a pain
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15:34
<davidj>
jammcq: Will you be driving through Boston?
15:35
<jammcq>
umm
15:35
we'll b driving through mass
15:35
<babyhuey>
man this sucks, the nbi.img is doing the splash and quiet even though it is turned off, am i missing an option somewhere?
15:35
<jammcq>
not necessarily getting near the airport
15:35
i think ragnar will also be ending up at BOS
15:36
<davidj>
Ragnar's coming?
15:36
<jammcq>
yep
15:36
last I heard
15:36
<davidj>
cool
15:36
<jammcq>
warren is leaving from boston
15:36
<davidj>
I just found a decent flight.
15:36
<jammcq>
do you know what time you'd be there?
15:37
<davidj>
10:40 or 2:17
15:37Guest27552 is now known as johnny
15:37
<jammcq>
we'll be in Rochester NY the night before
15:37
<davidj>
Just wanted to see if I needed to rent a car or not.
15:37
<jammcq>
prolly leaving Rochester by 10am or so
15:37johnny is now known as Guest18656
15:37
<davidj>
and if so, if anyone else needed a ride from Boston.
15:37spectra has quit IRC
15:37
<jammcq>
I think the thing to do is hook up with Ragnar
15:37
<alkisg>
babyhuey, that's why I prefer gpxe... :P I think with etherboot you have to use options 128 and 129 to be able to pass kernel parameters, but when I tried it once I couldn't make it work, I had to rebuild nbi.img. See this: http://www.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/KernelOptions
15:38
<davidj>
jammcq: OK
15:38
<ogra>
alkisg, wow, how old is that :)
15:38
thats surely not the way for ubuntu
15:38
<babyhuey>
is there a type of firmware upgrade i can use on these to make them use pxeboot?
15:39
<ogra>
iirc you need to create /etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf in the chroot and set BOOTPROMPT_OPTS
15:40
<alkisg>
ogra, it's supposed to be about etherboot, independendly of the OS... but I guess that's why I never got it to work!!! :)
15:40
<ogra>
then run update-initamfs -u in there and mkelfimage, then run sudo ltsp-update-kenels on the server
15:41
alkisg, the etherboot default options are set at nbi image buildtime
15:41
<alkisg>
ogra, ok, nice to know... But I still prefer gpxe!!! :P :D
15:41
<ogra>
though i'm not really up to date with the whole process, vagrantc is a way better source of information for etherboot
15:45Guest18656 is now known as johnny
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15:47DonSilver has quit IRC
15:47
<alkisg>
...this should really be documented somewhere, all I found was this bug report: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=428446
15:50
<babyhuey>
man this hangign is annoying
15:50
at least the day is almost over
15:50cosf has quit IRC
15:55
<vagrantc>
alkisg: if you set BOOTPROMPT_OPTS in /opt/ltsp/i386/update-kernels.conf and run chroot /opt/ltsp/i386/ /usr/share/ltsp/update-kernels ; ltsp-update-kernels ... it should hard-code the options into the nbi.img
15:55DonSilver has joined #ltsp
15:55
<alkisg>
babyhuey, ^^^^^^
15:55
(vagrantc, thanks)
15:58
<babyhuey>
ty
15:58
<vagrantc>
the code was committed to ltsp-trunk 2007-12-08, so it should be in hardy.
15:59warren has joined #ltsp
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16:22
<ogra>
vagrantc, /opt/ltsp/i386/update-kernels.conf ?
16:22
in the root dir ??
16:22* ogra thought it was /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf
16:23
<vagrantc>
oops.
16:23
yes.
16:23
<ogra>
ah, phew
16:23
felt a bit wrong :)
16:23
alkisg, babyhuey ^^^^
16:23
<vagrantc>
simple typo
16:25
<alkisg>
ok... Me, I don't want anything to do with etherboot/nbi.img, gpxe and pxelinux.0 are much better and easier for kernel parameters. :) I've even made some boot disks/CDs etc based on grub and gpxe.
16:27
<vagrantc>
i just started messing with gpxe. it's great :)
16:27
rom-o-matic has a CD image that's around 500k with all the supported drives built-in.
16:28
haven't had any luck with the all-drivers floppy image though...
16:28
<ogra>
well, but it wonr help you much with a ROM based client and without eprom writer
16:29
Lns, the above is probably worth to be put on the ubuntu wiki btw
16:30
"HowToAdjustEtherBootOptions"
16:30
or some such
16:30
<vagrantc>
could have etherboot point to a network bootable gpxe image :)
16:30
<ogra>
and chainload pxe :)
16:30
so you can only change the options in one place
16:32
<vagrantc>
hmmm... maybe i should package gpxe for debian
16:32
<ogra>
it isnt yet ?
16:32
wow
16:32
<vagrantc>
not that i know of.
16:32
it's in ubuntu?
16:32
<ogra>
its around for quite a while
16:32
ogra@osiris:~/Devel/ltsp/ltsp-trunk$ apt-cache search gpxe
16:32
ogra@osiris:~/Devel/ltsp/ltsp-trunk$
16:32
doesnt look like
16:33
<vagrantc>
well, looks like i found a new project. :)
16:33* ogra wonders what is the "free pxe daemon"
16:34
<vagrantc>
it's some weird daemon that really, really old pxe implementations needed ... or wanted ... or something like that.
16:34
<ogra>
PXE is a specification to boot PCs from the net. Apart from BOOTP or DHCP for
16:34
acquiring an IP address and TFTP for transferring files, it requires a PXE
16:34
daemon on the server. This package provides only this daemon.
16:34
wow
16:34
thats so wrong
16:35
and indeed its the first hit i would use if i wouldnt know about all that stuff
16:35
that package should die
16:36
<stgraber>
ouch, a PXE daemon, that sounds really wrong :)
16:36
<ogra>
yeah, and its just called pxe
16:36
so if i want to do pxe boot i certainly need that package :P
16:41
<Lns>
ogra: I would - I haven't really used Etherboot at all before though so I dont know much about it
16:57
<alkisg>
vagrantc, I've made an all-driver boot grub/gpxe floppy, if you want it it's here: http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/tosteki/index.php?topic=1451.0 (file grubgpxe.7z - also contains an iso and some files for pxe booting from windows)
16:58
<vagrantc>
alkisg: the CD image from rom-o-matic works fine for me ...
16:59
i'll re-try getting the floppy image from rom-o-matic
16:59
<alkisg>
vagrantc, yes, but mine is multiboot! :P (useful for windows / ltsp multibooting)
16:59
vagrantc, it's broken, I've been building gpxe from source for some months now, it never worked for me
17:00
<vagrantc>
alkisg: how's that?
17:00warren has quit IRC
17:00
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i mean, multiboot ?
17:01
<alkisg>
Well, it uses grub to boot either ltsp, local linux, local windows 98/xp/vista... whatever
17:01johnny has left #ltsp
17:02
<vagrantc>
why would i want a floppy to boot local linux or local windows ?
17:02johnny has joined #ltsp
17:02
<alkisg>
vagrantc, it also works the other way around, i.e. it can call gpxe.krn from boot.ini or from win 98/vista boot loaders
17:02johnny is now known as Guest37164
17:02
<alkisg>
vagrantc, well, if you want both windows AND ltsp on the same PC, you have to have a boot manager...
17:02
<vagrantc>
alkisg: why not have that be pxelinux ?
17:03
<alkisg>
vagrantc, pxelinux cannot be installed in ntfs. neither grub, only grub4dos / supergrub etc
17:04
<vagrantc>
alkisg: pxelinux cannot be installed anywhere but on the network ... ?
17:04
<alkisg>
Well, I thought you were talking about syslinux. Pxelinux is on the network, gpxe loads it
17:04
<vagrantc>
exactly. and then set up a boot menu using pxelinux ...
17:05
configurable from the network, rather than from the floppy itself
17:05
<alkisg>
And how is pxelinux going to load Vista?
17:05
<vagrantc>
no idea how vista loads, but can't you just chainload iit?
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17:06
<alkisg>
Or, more to the point, what if you have Vista and you don't want to use a floppy, but modify the Vista bootloader to also be able to boot from the network?
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17:08
<alkisg>
vagrantc, this is the most common scenario in the labs I'm teaching in, windows in very old PCs, so the bootloader is usually installed on the hard disk (grub4dos / gpxe / windows)
17:09
<vagrantc>
thankfully, i haven't had to think much about windows at all :)
17:09
<alkisg>
vagrantc, we have to, because some educations applications only work in windows... I don't like it though... :(
17:09
*educational
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17:20
<vagrantc>
looks like there's an ITP for gpxe: http://bugs.debian.org/474034
17:22
<alkisg>
vagrantc, "rom-o-matic has a CD image that's around 500k with all the supported drives built-in." - where? I can only download CD images for a single NIC, so I build it from source every time I want a CD with all supported NICs...
17:22
<vagrantc>
alkisg: there's an "all-drivers" option in the list of network cards ... way down the list.
17:23
<alkisg>
duh... in "g"!!! I looked at the top, at the bottom... didn't think to look at g!!!
17:23
<vagrantc>
heh
17:23
<alkisg>
thanks
17:23
<vagrantc>
you'd think it should be the default choice ...
17:24
there was reluctance to build all-drivers stuff with etherboot ... but seems like there's no such reluctance with gpxe
17:24
<alkisg>
...or at least at the end, or a simple download link on their start page...
17:25
I can't wait for them to implement all those etherboot options again
17:25
e.g. static boot info...
17:34
<ogra>
Lns, well, i just meant to copy over what vagrantc said so people know whats involved n changing the etherboot defaults
17:35
<Lns>
ogra: can you paste that info? I'll put it up but i don't have a backlog after restarting irc client
17:35
<ogra>
if you set BOOTPROMPT_OPTS in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf and run chroot /opt/ltsp/i386/ /usr/share/ltsp/update-kernels ; ltsp-update-kernels ... it should hard-code the options into the nbi.img
17:35
thats all
17:36
by default BOOTPROMPT_OPTS only has "quiet splash" in ubuntu
17:37
<Lns>
thx
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17:40
<Lns>
ogra: so the information we want to put into the wiki is that BOOTPROMPT_OPTS in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf will set kernel boot parms for etherboot?
17:40
and to follow ^^^ to set them
17:40
<ogra>
right, i.e. if you want to drop spalsh and quiet BOOTPROMPT_OPTS=""
17:41
<Lns>
ok, cool. i'll add that to the existing etherboot page
17:41
ogra: or anyone, can you verify the content in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPEtherbootSetup is still valid?
17:42
<ogra>
no
17:42
totally unneeded
17:42
<Lns>
oh..
17:42
<ogra>
the default dhcpd.conf has an automatic switch to use etherboot if an etherboot client requests the kernel, the mknbi part is automated already
17:43
<Lns>
gotcha. I'll revise that then
17:43
<ogra>
nothing of that is needed anymore
17:43
<Lns>
*snip snip*
17:43
<ogra>
though we dont use mknbi by default
17:43
if people have probs with the builtin image rolling, installing mknbi in the chroot might help them, that should be noted
17:44
if mknbi is available it will be used by default insted of the currnet tool
17:44
<vagrantc>
well, i think BOOTPROMT_OPTS="" will get re-set to the defaults for ubuntu ...
17:44
BOOTPROMPT_OPTS=" "
17:44
<ogra>
if [ -z "$BOOTPROMPT_OPTS" ]; then
17:44
hmm, yeah
17:44
needs a space
17:45
<Lns>
so mknbi isn't installed as a dep to ltsp-server* .. ok
17:46
<vagrantc>
all that stuff happens client-side.
17:46
<ogra>
no, and -server would be the wrong place anyway
17:46
<vagrantc>
well, chroot-side.
17:46
<ogra>
we currently use mkelfimage
17:46
iirc
17:46
but if that doesnt work you can install mknbi inside the chroot and it will replace the default
17:47
<Lns>
ah gotcha ok, didn't catch the in-the-chroot part
17:47
<vagrantc>
defaults to mkelfimage ... if mknbi is installed, it'll generate a nbi-old.img or some such
17:47
nbi-legacy.img ...
17:47
as older versions of etherboot don't support images produced with mkelfimage
17:48
<ogra>
urgh
17:48* Lns has a nbi-img-2.6.24-19-generic on his ltsp server..which uses pure pxe
17:48
<ogra>
but that breaks the efault dhcpd.conf
17:48
grrr
17:48
who changed that ?
17:48
<vagrantc>
ogra: there's no way to get a perfect dhcpd.conf, as it's not strictly based on the etherboot version, but what they were compiled to support.
17:49
of course it was me :P
17:49
<ogra>
its not based on etherboot at all
17:49
<Lns>
jerry..jerry... lol
17:49
<vagrantc>
and i didn't *remove* support for anything, merely *Added* support for additional stuff.
17:49
<ogra>
it looks for pxe ... if the client cant do pxe it will fall back to nbi.img
17:49
well, you removed automatic suport
17:50
<vagrantc>
no i didn't.
17:50
trust me.
17:50
it behaves exactly as before.
17:50
<ogra>
if it would just replace nbi.img it would work
17:50
<vagrantc>
it still creates nbi.img, but creates an additional image
17:50
<ogra>
if it uses a different image name the dhspd wont serve it
17:50
both with mknbi in that case ?
17:50
<vagrantc>
no
17:51
<ogra>
see
17:51
<vagrantc>
exactly as before.
17:51
<ogra>
so if mkelfimage doesnt work i have to chnge my dhcpd.conf ...
17:51
<vagrantc>
yes.
17:51
<ogra>
right
17:51
thats wrong
17:51
<vagrantc>
well, it was even more wrong with having to hack the code to support an additional incompatible image.
17:51
<ogra>
if someone *deliberately* installs mknbi, he wants mknbi images
17:52
<vagrantc>
bah.
17:52
<ogra>
we dont install it by default and if i install it i do that because mkelfimage didnt work for me
17:52
why should i need to timker with dhcpd ?
17:53
<vagrantc>
if someone deliberately installs mknbi, and deliberately removes mkelfimage, then they'll get elf nbi.img generated with mkelf-linux and genuine nbi images generated with mknbi-linux.
17:53
<ogra>
it should just replace nbi.img
17:53
<vagrantc>
no, because then you'll break support for versions that don't support genuine nbi images.
17:53
<ogra>
tsk
17:53
<vagrantc>
there's no way to do it perfectly.
17:53
<Lns>
how about asking the admin during image creation what he wants?
17:53
<ogra>
but with less user interaction
17:54
eek
17:54
no
17:54* vagrantc has had this conversation at least once before
17:54* Lns misses Debian and how it used to ask how to configure things when installed
17:54
<Lns>
err...does ask
17:54
<ogra>
you can use ubuntu the same way if you like
17:54* vagrantc hates it when debian asks too many question
17:54
<vagrantc>
i'm so glad it's moved beyond that
17:55
<ogra>
just select expert mode on install
17:55
<vagrantc>
i don't need to be asked the question when 95-99% of the time the defaults work fine.
17:55
<ogra>
anyway, for me the way its handled now is broken
17:55
<vagrantc>
ogra: it's such a tiny corner-case.
17:55
<ogra>
i dont want my users having to touch dhcpd.conf ever
17:56
<vagrantc>
ogra: well, fix it without breaking anything :)
17:56
<Lns>
ogra: ? That's kind of difficult given most people aren't gonna use the same subnet every time
17:56
<ogra>
not now, i have another image test waiting for me
17:56
<Lns>
I've never used the default
17:57
<ogra>
Lns, if you have a two NIC server and your TC network is separated *and* the ip range isnt used at the other NIC it will just use what is the default
17:57
many people install that way
17:57
i would even say most ubuntu ltsp users do
17:58
in a default ubuntu install like described in QuickInstall you will not have to touch anything, it will just work
17:58
if it doesnt, thats a bug
17:59
<Lns>
ogra: I guess I'm not in the majority then, i have 1/8 servers configured this way.. of course the other 7 are at a school district that already separates student & admin networks
17:59
sorry, 1/9 servers
17:59
<ogra>
right
17:59
and you wont hear complaints from the people for which it works
18:00
so you dont get any feedback usually
18:00
<Lns>
or it doesn't work and they give up ;)
18:00
<ogra>
what you usually see are the people for which it doesnt work or the ones not going with the defaults
18:01
<Lns>
it just seems crazy to me that so many would be basically creating a network just for ltsp, and not on top of an existing infrastructure
18:01
<ogra>
anyway, need to test the images, we had a last minute respin ... every test is appreciated btw
18:01
release is supposed to happen within less than 24h and we didnt have enough tests yet
18:02
<Lns>
eek
18:02* Lns hasn't touched intrepid yet :(
18:07* alkisg just tried loading pxelinux.0 from an etherboot disk and it worked fine... Why is nbi.img needed?
18:17
<ogra>
alkisg, because you might have a NIC with a ROM etherboot image
18:17
and no eprom writer
18:17
<alkisg>
ogra, but if an etherboot disk can load pxelinux.0, (not gpxe, etherboot disk), why a ROM etherboot image can't load it? (newbie question)
18:18
<ogra>
because etherboot roms rarely use rom-o-matic PXE emulation ;)
18:18
thats only around since some yeats
18:18
*years
18:18
<alkisg>
ogra, no, I tried an etherboot disk without PXE emulation (I guess...)
18:19bobby_C has quit IRC
18:19
<alkisg>
and just renamed pxelinux.0 to nbi.img so that it would load it
18:19
and it did, it worked fine...
18:19
<ogra>
intresting
18:19
i never tried that
18:20
with a default ubuntu setup ?
18:20
<alkisg>
I used the latest pxelinux.0, I don't know if there were ever any changes...
18:20
No, latest pxelinux.0, 3.72 i think?
18:20
Everything else = default intrepid
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18:21
<alkisg>
So if it works, just symlinking nbi.img to pxelinux.0 would work... ???
18:24
(the pxelinux in intrepid needs support for the tsize option from the tftp server, so it doesn't work with virtualbox, that's why I changed to the most recent one some days ago...)
18:27alekibango has quit IRC
18:30
<ogra>
works fine with vbox here
18:30
though server and client in vbox
18:31
the symlinking might actually work
18:31
but probably not on all HW
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18:31
<ogra>
etherboot is a bit tricky there are so many different implementations so it might just be a matter of luck that it worked for you
18:33
<Lns>
ogra: so when's a good time after 24h to bug you about the nbd_swap issues in hardy? :)
18:33
<ogra>
next week
18:33
<alkisg>
I don't understand the low-level staff involved, why would loading a kernel would be different than loading pxelinux... anyway, time to call it a day... bye everyone
18:33
<ogra>
i'll fall dead after the release announcment went out
18:33
<Lns>
hehe.. ok cool
18:33
be sure to have a beer for us all here
18:33
<ogra>
not much sleep for me in release week, i'll sleep the whole weeend
18:34
i just found a bottle of nice pinot grigio in the fridge
18:34
<Lns>
hope you're taking breaks here and there... that always helps productivity
18:34
<ogra>
half finished already :)
18:34
<Lns>
lol nice =)
18:34
<ogra>
i'm forced to have breaks ... it takes a lot of time to respin all images
18:34* Lns should send ogra a nice bottle from sonoma county
18:35
<ogra>
pre release testing means waiting for isos or .img files to be rolled and then endless glaring at progressbars
18:35
the actual testing is usually done in 20 min ... the rest is rather 2h
18:35
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i've definitely found older etherboot versions that didn't work.
18:36
alkisg: you need an etherboot that doesn't have ELF support built in.
18:36
<alkisg>
oh, that's the difference!!!
18:36
<vagrantc>
alkisg: to get it to fail.
18:36
<alkisg>
So pxelinux.0 is an elf image?
18:36
<vagrantc>
maybe
18:36
<stgraber>
ogra: get a real powerful box and do 6 tests at the same time, you won't have to wait anymore :)
18:36
<alkisg>
I see... thanks!
18:37
<vagrantc>
i'm not sure what pxelinux is :)
18:37
<ogra>
stgraber, tricky if you only have one mobile device :)
18:37
<vagrantc>
i just know how to get it to work :)
18:37
<stgraber>
ogra: well except for the rebuilds (I was waiting it for 5 hours or so ...)
18:37
<alkisg>
I thought it would be something like a comboot
18:37
<stgraber>
ogra: hmm, right and touchscreens are not easy to test in VM :)
18:37
<alkisg>
No header, plain assembly loaded at 07c0:0000
18:37
<ogra>
i'm testing the mobile images and especially if i.e. touchscreen works
18:38
well, works fine on my lappie, but needs the vmmouse driver inside the image
18:38
indeed we dont ship that
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18:44
<alkisg>
file nbi.img-2.6.27-7-generic: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), statically linked, corrupted section header size.... anyway, time to go.
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22:07
<jammcq>
Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
22:07
<sbalneav>
Evening all
22:08
Hey jammcq!
22:08
<jammcq>
I'm just heading to bed
22:08
<sbalneav>
I think there's something wrong with the LTSP mail server
22:08
<jammcq>
oh?
22:08
why?
22:08
<sbalneav>
I'm not gettung any mail from sbalneav@ltsp.org
22:08
one sec, I'll print the message.
22:09
This is a Delivery Status Notification (DSN).
22:09
After several attempts,
22:09
I still haven't been able to deliver your message to
22:09
sbalneav@ltsp.org.
22:09
I will keep trying for a few more days,
22:09
but I thought you would want to know.
22:09
I said RCPT TO:<sbalneav@ltsp.org>
22:09
And they gave me the error;
22:09
<stgraber>
evening sbalneav, jammcq
22:09
<sbalneav>
450 Server configuration problem
22:09
So it's a 450
22:09
Not a rush, don't stay up for it.
22:09
Evening stgraber
22:09
<davidj>
22:10
<sbalneav>
Evening davidj
22:10
<jammcq>
hmm
22:10
<davidj>
evening, sbalneav. How are things in the Snowy North?
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22:10
<davidj>
I'm convinced USAir is yanking my chain.
22:10
<sbalneav>
No snow yet
22:10* ogra cant belive that #ubuntu-release-party is so busy already
22:11
<davidj>
We've got snow here.
22:11
<stgraber>
here too
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<jammcq>
sbalneav: could that be graylisting you are bumping in to?
22:11
<davidj>
Not in Charlotte, but to the west.
22:12
greylisting usually keys off IP and rcpt-to, doesn't it?
22:12
jammcq: What's your greylisting timeout set to?
22:12
<sbalneav>
Don't think so, I've got ltsp.org on whitelist
22:12
<jammcq>
davidj: no clue
22:13
<sbalneav>
Go to bed. We can figure it out tomorrow.
22:13
<davidj>
jammcq: I'm still trying to figure out my travel plans. It looks like I'll fly into Boston, but flying out on Sunday is a problem.
22:13
<stgraber>
davidj: hmm, then drive from Boston ?
22:13
<davidj>
I can either stay at the Seawall an extra night and bum a ride to the Bar Harbor airport in the morning, or I can stay in Boston Sunday night.
22:14
BOS-CTL on Sunday is over $1,000, on Monday it's 69.
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<jammcq>
sbalneav: check your inbox
22:21
comcast goofyness
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<jammcq>
ok, i'm heading to bed. see ya'll later
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