IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 23 January 2012   (all times are UTC)

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14:28
<nubae_>
highvoltage, ping
14:29
<highvoltage>
nubae_: pong
14:29
<nubae_>
cool, you're there
14:29
<yalu>
hi people, one question, why doens't ltsp on ubuntu support amd geode cpu's? is there some way to make them work anyway?
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14:30
<nubae_>
here's the thing... the school I was telling u about is interested in getting some outside ltsp maintenance
14:31
right now, Im around so can help them in most cases, but I plan to go to Germany/Austria or wherever other than Southern Spain :p
14:31
<highvoltage>
nubae_: ok, are you still in contact with Bruno?
14:31
<nubae_>
anyway, right now, I've set almost all the clients as fat, and its made a real difference i terms of stability
14:32
highvoltage, not really, I didn't get much feedback
14:32
<highvoltage>
nubae_: can you do me a favour and email him with that info and CC me?
14:32
<nubae_>
but to the point, before handing off to u guys
14:32
yes I can do that of course
14:32
but just a sec
14:32
<highvoltage>
ok
14:33
<nubae_>
they say they absolutely require photoshop, I showed them gimpshop, but the art teacher has been somewhat brainwashed into photoshop
14:34
which seems fine since photoshop 7 is platinum under wine
14:34
similar situation with the computer teacher who insists ms office must be used and libre office isn't as good
14:34
again ms office2002 (XP) is also platinuum on wine
14:35
<highvoltage>
RLNX supports supported wine apps
14:35
<nubae_>
so my idea is, give them that option within the fat clients
14:35
<highvoltage>
ms office is really a waste, but if they really want it, bleh :)
14:35
<nubae_>
my thoughts exactly
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14:36
<nubae_>
let them fight it out amongst themselves, I will give them a very old version (2002) with a perfect libre office filled with clipart and a very optimised office suite
14:36
<highvoltage>
:)
14:36
<nubae_>
but... these teachers are like institutionalised people
14:37
they dont really want to change their ways
14:37
theyre already really unhappy using linux
14:37
<stgraber>
yalu: Ubuntu's kernel and userspace no longer supports these CPUs. "With 10.10 we have also dropped support for i586 and lower processors, as well as i686 processors without cmov support. "
14:37
<nubae_>
this should be a compromise
14:38
so question... do u see any problems with me installing wine and said programs inside the fatclients?
14:38
and do I have to do it per user?
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14:39
<nubae_>
Basically, from Feb/March on, I'd love it if u guys can support the school... its growing fast, they now have 200 students
14:39
and the inhouse support dude is mostly a hardware guy
14:39
<highvoltage>
nubae_: Well, I can pretty much gaurantee you that RLNX will want to re-integrate it under the usual ways we do it (package things, integrate it with bcfg2)
14:40
nubae_: that way the support team will now exactly where things arre configured and how.
14:40
<nubae_>
which I think works fine with what you guys could do
14:40
ok so u use cfengine
14:40
interesting
14:40
<highvoltage>
nubae_: so I can't gaurantee that your setup will stay exactly the same after rlnx would integrate it, but I think it's ok that you set it up so long
14:40
<nubae_>
gerat
14:40
<highvoltage>
nubae_: bcfg2, not cfengine :)
14:41
<nubae_>
I know i know
14:41
not THAT different
14:41
just interesting u are using cenralised automation
14:41
u guys have a lot of setups by now then?
14:42
<highvoltage>
"a lot" is a very subjective term :)
14:42
but yes, far too many setups to keep track of manually
14:42
a configuration management system is essential
14:42
<nubae_>
cause I was going to do the same using puppet and spacewalk for olpc, but that fell through, non tech heads didnt understand the necessity
14:43
i agree totally
14:43
wish it was easier to explain to management though
14:43
<highvoltage>
yep, that's indeed always hard
14:43
<nubae_>
I found an awsome book dont know if u read it, Automation of unix system administraiton I think
14:44
it focused on cfengine, but was like a manual for using any kind of automation
14:44
they used examples of RHEL and Debian for various tasks
14:45
<highvoltage>
I feel the same as the author of this blog entry and like his ideas: http://current.workingdirectory.net/posts/2011/puppet-without-masters/
14:45
<nubae_>
ooooh nice, I'll definetly claw my way through that
14:46
I bought the 2 puppet books that were written, but I just dont think its quite the same
14:46
puppet somehow seems convoluted, bloated and written without enough logic
14:47
but its a fashion thing right now, so management says u have to use puppet
14:47
so we use puppet... stupid
14:47
anyway, I digress
14:48
appart from what I stated above... have u heard of VIA based Zaapa clients?
14:48
they cost 150 euros, and contain pretty serious hardware
14:49
2 gigs ram, 160 gigabyte hardrive, C7-M cpu and even hdmi outputs
14:49
1920x1080 res
14:49
but heres the thing... it requires openchrome driver
14:49
and integrated, it has ubuntu and loads wthout problems
14:50
but as a fat/thin client ltsp it loads up and has a synching problem....
14:50
like the screen is out of synch diagonally
14:50
not sure if Im making sense
14:51
im just wondering, do i have to compile a special fatclient with closed source via graphics driver?
14:52
or is there a way around.... if tried almost all the lts.conf settings i can think of, other than loading a specialised X conf
14:55
these Zaapa clients seem to have been almost made for the many Spanish setups we have down here using Ubuntu... as u probably know, all government and all schools must use opensource software by law in Spain
14:56
so perhaps, not hundred percent sure, but I think so, these hardware boxes seem to have been made in conjunction with the government
14:57
highvoltage, http://www.pcactual.com/articulo/laboratorio/analisis/ordenadores/sobremesas/mcede_salon/4947/zaapa_zc-mc7_mini_salon_con_apariencia_disco_multimedia.html
14:59
it shows 199 euros, but I can go pick them up from the Malaga warehouses for 150 a piece and probably less if more are bought
14:59
might be interesting for your company
14:59
closest approximation I've seen of something similar is the Acer Revo, or was it Asus, anyway, that costs 399
15:01
<highvoltage>
nubae_: yeah the main point of that article applies to bcfg2 and cfengine as well
15:02
nubae_: personally I wouldn't touch anything with a VIA chip
15:06
<nubae_>
i understand u're misgivings... but surely if the thing has been built for working with ubuntu, and I've messed with it for quite some hours
15:07
<xsl>
sorry to jump into the conversation ... what are the thin and fat clients?
15:07
fat client = alot of localapps?
15:07
<nubae_>
it should work with ltsp, right? OR should I really just give it up on that thing in general
15:08
and focus on cheaper end laptops with atom or dual core chipsets
15:08
there are some nice 16 inch screen laptops for 300 euros, seems a good deal seeing one doesnt need to the screen
15:08
xsl, fatclients are just pure localapps
15:09
better stated, its like a thin client except everything runs on he local cpu and ram
15:09
<xsl>
is that image served also with nbd ?
15:10
<nubae_>
(almost) and considering the prices of clients these days, there isnt much point in the traditional thin clients unless u just have thousands of them lying around
15:10
nbd and everythingelse exactly the same as a regular thin client
15:10
really, its the future of LTSP
15:11
<xsl>
is there a tutorial of all stuff that you can put as localapp? like "howto build fat client"
15:11
<nubae_>
I think actual thin clients will die out within the next couple of years due to pricing and better gui management of the fatclient within the ltsp environment
15:12
Well, Im actually in the midst of writing up a how to build a fatclient with what most people would want inside it
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15:12
<nubae_>
it-ll be on my blog soonish, maybe check tomorrow
15:12
www.nubae.com
15:13
<xsl>
will do :)
15:13
im still new to LTSP
15:13
playing with it for 4 months
15:13
<nubae_>
I-ll include how to install wine with some ms based apps, virtualbox, chrome, firefox, flash, adobe apps, etc
15:13
stuff most of us really need
15:14
<xsl>
using ubuntu as distro... on my way of making a setup using xubuntu( think xfce will be better and lighter than gnome for thin clients)
15:14
yes your correct :)
15:14
<nubae_>
there are already many howtos, but non actually have a "this is a regular kinda setup"
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15:15
<xsl>
yes and i find some lack of info... like ... how to remote help people on the thin/fat-clients
15:15
how to pay remote assistance
15:15
s/pay/give
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15:39
<nubae_>
yeah
15:39
I hope I can give a thorough report
15:44
<xsl>
from my behalf ty in advance :D and i hope i can provide feedback and improvements to the "setup"
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16:03
<knipwim>
nubae_: what kind of video card do you have in that zaapa box?
16:04
i'm asking because i'm also struggling with my chrome9 hc card
16:04
<nubae_>
its an openchrome based one
16:04
yah, sounds about right
16:04
<knipwim>
it's a dual dvi out card
16:04
but i can't even get one to work
16:04
<nubae_>
yeah this has an hdmi output and a regular output
16:05
so probably the same
16:05
well... like I said above... weirdly, the system was built for ubuntu.... as in ubuntu is the OS that comes standard on this box
16:05
and that works no problem
16:06
<knipwim>
you still have the xorg.conf from that install?
16:06
<nubae_>
but when I ltsp it... I get the diagonal flickering desynch problem
16:07
<knipwim>
i got an igel ud5 thin client, and they also ship a closed source linux os
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16:07
<knipwim>
so i know it should work
16:08
<nubae_>
I didnt go down that route
16:08
but its probably what I'll do ext
16:08
next
16:08
copy the xorg.conf from the ubuntu hd to fatclient chroot
16:08
and see what happens
16:08
if I get it to work, I'll do a write up and provide the xorg.conf to those that need it
16:08
the system is at the school though, so until I get access, cant do much... so will need a couple days
16:08
rigth
16:08
its a shame that we cant use the opensource driver though
16:09
it seemed like VIA really wanted to go that route
16:09
<knipwim>
the original install had the closed source driver?
16:09
<nubae_>
but somewhere along the line (money?) they stopped
16:09
yes
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16:09
<nubae_>
knipwim, at least I think so
16:09
<knipwim>
i checked yesterday, there is still the occasional commit on openchrome
16:09
<nubae_>
I have to take a closer look
16:10
<knipwim>
so, not completely dead
16:10
<nubae_>
yeah in theroy openchrome should work, but latest openchrome didnt work for me
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16:12
<knipwim>
same here, using 0.2.904_p952
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16:13
<ken26>
how can I lock down the thinclients so users cannot download or delete new apps, etc? Also, how to make all users desktops look the same when logging in?
16:13
<Nubae>
odd... I have one xchat client..... but 2 users, I ghosted the orginal Nubae
16:14
but nubae_ came back
16:14
wonder what that is about
16:14
<xsl>
you have sasl auth?
16:14
<Nubae>
ken26, thats done by default
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16:14
<Nubae>
if u dont have everyone with sysadmin access
16:16
<ken26>
I have ldap set up so a new thinclient recepient can log in but unless I manually set up a local account, the login fails....hwo to set up etc skel to make home directory, etc
16:17
As for user desktops being the same....I want to onlt have a couple of ICONS down the left side....firefox and remote desktop.....is that set up on the server ior in the chrooted image?
16:18
<Nubae>
ken26, been a long time since i used ldap, any particular reason u require it?
16:18
ken26, server if thinclient, chrooted image if fatclient
16:19
<ken26>
can a thinclient be a fat client? I have the diskless ltsp thinclients
16:20
I am using these thinclients for users spread out throughout a lab many building.... and lab policy is to use ldap for all auth.
16:22
<Nubae>
yes, and they are preferable
16:22
ldap is a bit of a waste if u are using just unix
16:22
if u use windows then ok
16:22
but otherwise u are creating a headache for yourself
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16:28
<jammcq>
hello friends
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16:36
<xsl>
Nubae: in your opinion whats the most stable distro to use in LTSP ? kinda like out-of-the-box setup
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16:41
<Nubae>
ubuntu and debian without a doubt
16:41
debian chooses nfs as a base and ubuntu nbd, but other than that, they are highly similiar
16:42
Either that, or.... if u are going for real long term, and dont want to uprade every couple years Red Hat Enterprise
16:42
or Novell Suse Enterprise
16:43
Suse has pretty nice gui based controls, but in my opinion, LTSP without the terminal is a death trap
16:44
as for nicest distro, I can't get enough of pinguyOS
16:45
somehow a really small amount of people managed to create a truly awsome distro
16:47
<xsl>
nice :)
16:47
ty for your opinion
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18:36
<yalu>
stgraber: turns out I'm running Natty, which is 11.04 I believe, and I'm running it on a Geode that *has* the cmov instruction :-)))
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19:41
<Nubae>
So alkisg are u saying its easier to use the bvox approach to using wine or crossover?
19:41
Crossover worked great on thin clients
19:42
<alkisg>
I haven't used crossover, I think they support multi-user installations
19:42
<Nubae>
couldnt I make specialised crossover fatclient?
19:42
they do
19:42
<alkisg>
If you're looking for a portable app, which doesn't require installation, it's easy with stock wine
19:42
<Nubae>
and multi flask/container
19:43
I need photoshop 7 and msoffice 2002 since they are platinum according to site
19:43
<alkisg>
Otherwise manual playing with groups+dynamic registry changes would be necessary... if you want to go to all this length, you can check the channel logs, we've talked about it,
19:43
And of course you can always install per user
19:43
<Nubae>
with crossover I can run different instances of wine without it being too much of a problem
19:44
well, thats not the end of the world since its the teachers that want this crap
19:44
the students dont need it
19:44
<alkisg>
There are also 2 linux apps (paid) which are photoshop like
19:45
<Nubae>
that wont cut it
19:45
these are isntitutionalised bovine like creatures
19:46
if it doesnt look and smell exactly like photoshop they'll complain without even trying
19:46
no point in trying to reason with creatures like that
19:47
u have more luck talking to your labrador
19:47
if u know what I mean :p
19:50
If u dont mind me asking, what was the outcome of the wine alone installs within a fatclient for multiuser
19:50
did it eventually work?
19:50
<alkisg>
I've only tried portable wine-based apps, packaged into .debs and put into repositories
19:51
I haven't tried non-portable apps yet, but I think my idea would work for multiuser setups, yeah
19:52
Remember that you can also use ltsp to send windows VMs to the client
19:52
s
19:52
<Nubae>
hmmm from what u are saying it sounds like crossover would really help here then
19:52
<alkisg>
So you can have photoshop in all PCs with a single windows + photoshop installation
19:52
<Nubae>
I dont want to do that cause then everyone will demand that
19:52
<alkisg>
(that's a windows vm running locally)
19:52
<Nubae>
yeah i know
19:53
i prefer they stay inside linux always
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20:12
<jammcq>
hey guys
20:13
<Nubae>
alkisg, whens around did u speak about fatwine in logs?
20:13
hi jammcq
20:13
<jammcq>
hey Nubae
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20:15
<alkisg>
Nubae: there's no significant difference between thin and fat wine
20:16
<Nubae>
alkisg, really? then I'm defetly using crossover, cause thats a piece of cake
20:16
<alkisg>
ΟΚ
20:17
<Nubae>
i shall document my troubles
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