IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 25 June 2013   (all times are UTC)

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03:03
<quietone>
Hi, I can't boot. Error msg is 'mount: device or resource busy'
03:03
fails at nbi.img
03:03
tftp works
03:03
not sure what to try
03:04
searching for 2 days ... :-(
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03:36
<simulacrum>
hi, in ldm preference menu is a possibility to select "backend" and "session". whats the difference?
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04:33
<work_alkisg>
simulacrum: backend==ssh, rdp, while session==gnome, kde, xfce, lxde...
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04:37
<simulacrum>
thanks
04:38
so, to change default value for session, i have to set LDM_SESSION in lts.conf, right?
04:38
but how to set default value for backend?
04:40
<work_alkisg>
It already has a default value, ssh, you need another default value?
04:40
There's LDM_DEFAULT_BACKEND and LDM_FORCE_BACKEND
04:40
<simulacrum>
yes for some clients i want default for rdp
04:41
that sounds great, where can i read about it? i could nothing find in man page: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/lucid/man5/lts.conf.5.html
04:44
<work_alkisg>
These options didn't exist in Ubuntu Lucid, they became available later on, in 12.04
04:44
In http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/raring/man5/lts.conf.5.html you can find some of them, e.g. LDM_FORCE_SESSION, if something is missing file a bug request with an attached .diff for the new entry
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04:51
<simulacrum>
ok i find force session there but nothing about the backend
04:53
is there probably something implemented but not dokumented about the SCREEN_* option?
04:53
i just guess
04:54
<work_alkisg>
Yes, there are lots of implemented things that are not documented
04:55
<simulacrum>
but could imagine that probably scripts in /ltsp/screen.d directory or settings of SCREEN_* options can activate/deactivate backend entries?
04:56
is there some source where i could find something about the implemented things? specs, dev-wikis, trac dev-lists or such?
04:56
<work_alkisg>
!ldm-source
04:56
<ltsp`>
ldm-source: at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk/files
04:57
<work_alkisg>
Grepping through the sources is the best you can do, for anything not documented in lts.conf...
05:00
<simulacrum>
ok thanks. sounds like a bit of work but then i can finally stop asking google the same question in other words again and again... hope source commented well
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05:18
<simulacrum>
ok found some interesting things:
05:19
the ldm gui and also preference menu seems to be implemented here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk/view/head:/gtkgreet/greeter.c
05:19
source is nice self explaining nearly
05:19
popup_menu starts at line 500
05:22
LDM_FORCE_SESSION is checked there but nothing about LDM_*BACKEND*
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05:25
<work_alkisg>
ldm-trunk$ grep -r BACKEND .
05:25
./src/ldm.c: if (!getenv("LDM_FORCE_BACKEND")) {
05:25
...
05:28
<simulacrum>
seems to me, that in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk/view/head:/gtkgreet/greeter.c is parsed something called LDM_MENU_ITEM and LDM_MENU_COMMAND and "backend"-icons are created only if this is available
05:28
thanks for the hint, i will look there too
05:29
line 541
05:38
<work_alkisg>
LDM_MENU_ITEM is unrelated to the backend, it provides an extra menu entry
05:39
E.g. here we're using that one to implement user signup forms
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06:03
<simulacrum>
ok nice use case.
06:03
what are plugins exactly?
06:04
not the same as screen scripts in /usr/share/ltsp/screen.d directory?
06:05
in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk/view/head:/src/ldm.c line 171 plugins get loaded: ldm_get_plugins()
06:06
that seems to happen in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk/view/head:/src/ldmplugin.c
06:06
and line 160 seems to look for files with suffix ".so"
06:07
if ((entry->d_type == DT_REG || entry->d_type == DT_UNKNOWN) && (strstr(entry->d_name, ".so") != NULL)) {
06:09
i ask because i not only have to use ssh and rdp. i also have to use x2go for some cases and till now i thought that could be possible with screen scripts and make them available in ldm-preference menu some how
06:11
<work_alkisg>
It would be possible to write a plugin to login via LDM+x2go, yup
06:12
Note though that LDM will be deprecated in LTSP 6...
06:12
<simulacrum>
whats next on the roadmap?
06:13
<work_alkisg>
libpam_sshauth was developed and will be used in ltsp6 for authentication,
06:13
so that LDM will then be deprecated and it will be possible to use any DM, like LightDM, GDM...
06:14
<simulacrum>
gdm was also used before ldm, right?
06:14
<work_alkisg>
No
06:14
At least, not since LTSP5 when I first met LTSP...
06:14
I don't know if they were using it in LTSP 4
06:18
<simulacrum>
i think i looked at ltsp last time in ubuntu 8, so really few years ago... this time there was also no x2go and i had to used nxclient. and setup nfs, dhcp, tftp and initrd manually was more easy than customize ltsp to what was needed :-)
06:19
ltsp seems to have made much progress since than!
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06:20
<work_alkisg>
In Ubuntu 8.04, LDM was used again
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06:23
<simulacrum>
is there some roadmap online to find out if ltsp 6 is near or far future?
06:26
<work_alkisg>
No, I don't think there is one. I'd imagine LTSP 6 is a couple of years in the future...
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06:30
<simulacrum>
than i will have to check if i can adopt ldm
06:32
i also think, that a plugin for ldm+x2go should be possible. but i am not yet sure how that could be done and if it would be smaller or bigger effort
06:34
i think that would depend on if this plugin can be a shell-script or have to be compiled c
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06:34
<work_alkisg>
I think it would need to be compiled... stgraber was the one that wrote the plugin mechanism....
06:40
<simulacrum>
the difference between screen scripts and "backend" plugins is still not really clear to me.
06:41
i already have two screens for rdp and x2go running. but the users have to change them via CTRL+ALT... and cant choose them in ldm backend menu
06:43
but with rdp-backend it would be possible to use ldm for login and start rdp with this credentials?#
06:47
my screen scripts are bash and so easy to maintain what is an advantage for the admin. but user complain about no possibility of switching backend in preference menu (because they are used to switch their desktop-environments there too)
06:48
<work_alkisg>
They want to run rdp and x2go at the same time?
06:48
Or select only one of them at login prompt?
06:49
<simulacrum>
they select rdp for window login. normal ltps for usage at one terminal and x2go if they knew they have to switch their workplace in between or want to suspend session and resume it at home.
06:50
<work_alkisg>
Then they'd select the RDP backend, yup
06:50
And if you implemented an x2go backend in .c, they could select that too
06:51
<simulacrum>
till now i just worked with screen scripts and didnt understand whats about this backends
06:51
yes exactly
06:51
<work_alkisg>
The backends were not available in 8.04
06:52
...nor in 10.04
06:53
<simulacrum>
but its new server now on ubuntu 12.04 so i think about making it some more convenient and better now
06:56
is there any possibility already now to use a different login manager than ldm?
06:58
because there are many light alternatives which are much more simple to configure. i just dont know ltsp depends only on ldm login?
07:04
<work_alkisg>
It's possible, but very difficult, to use another DM
07:05
<simulacrum>
i think if i have to use ldm, i will try to make some menu-entries with LDM_MENU_ITEM/LDM_MENU_COMMAND to start rdp or x2go client via mouse click, thats a bit better. but one login-manager for all data (username, password, backend and desktop-env) would be the most convenient solution...
07:08
you think to use another login-manager is more difficult than writing and maintaining an own x2go plugin in c?
07:10
<work_alkisg>
If you use another login manager, you still have to maintain some kind of plugin for x2go to work
07:10
E.g. lightdm doesn't support x2go out of the box...
07:14
<simulacrum>
thanks you helped me a lot! probably i will stop on the half way, improve a bit with LDM_MENU_ITEM/LDM_MENU_COMMAND but wait with the rest on LTSP 6...
07:33
nearly forgot: if LDM_MENU_ITEM works fine for me under ubuntu 12.04, how can i extend the man page with this option and where to explain the difference between screen scripts and backends best in the doku?
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10:08
<workingcats>
hello, i'm having a little trouble logging my fat clients in.. it worked yesterday but now it doesnt, but i havent changed anything on the server. auth.log tells me me the password is wrong
10:10
i definitely havent changed any passwords, and they're on auto-login so its not a typo ;)
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10:30
<zend>
Hello, all :-)
10:30
<workingcats>
hi there
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10:30
<zend>
I have a new problem :-( With usb-stick mounting from thin-clients to ltsp server
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10:31
<zend>
I have mounted usb flash drive on thin client
10:31
<workingcats>
oh and i also tried ssh ltsp03@localhost with the same result
10:32
oops meant to take this to #zentyal, but if anyone has any clue what might be amiss here.. :)
10:32
<zend>
Like this: ltspfs /media/vlad/usbdisk-sda1 fuse.ltspfs rw,nosuid,nodev,user=vlad 0 0
10:32
But does not see this device on ltsp server
10:34
In lts.conf i have an LOCALDEV=True and MOUNT_LOCAL_MEDIA=True
10:44
<workingcats>
ok i can confirm its not a ltsp problem i think, since as root i can log in just fine
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11:33
<Joanet>
hi all! what is the default root password for ltsp thin client?
11:35
<muppis>
root account is disable by default.
11:36
<Hyperbyte>
Joanet:
11:36
!screen_02
11:36
<ltsp`>
screen_02: To get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using_a_shell_SCREEN
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11:50
<Joanet>
Hyperbyte: thanks
11:54
<workingcats>
Joanet, alternatively you can set the root password after chrooting into the image, but screen_02 is much more comfortable if you can trust your users not to do silly things or not to be able to figure out that they can press ctrl+alt+f2 ;)
11:55
<Joanet>
thanks workingcats
11:56
also, fat clients need hard disk?
11:56
I'm having issues using Pentium 4 as thin clients and alkisg recommend me to use fat clients instead thin
11:57
but those computers' hard disk were removed
11:57
<workingcats>
nope, they load their image from the server and mount ~ from there after logon
11:57
<Joanet>
thanks
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11:58
<Joanet>
the last question : can I create the fat image as a copy from the thin client image?
11:58
hi alkisg ! I'm preparing the fat client conversion :)
11:59
<alkisg>
Hi Joanet, nice :)
11:59
<Joanet>
also I've installed a 1gig switch and the network perfomance is fine now, but still having computers hang
12:01
<alkisg>
Using a fat image might help with the hanging part...
12:05
<workingcats>
i had computers (seemingly) arbitrarily hang during logon, switching to fat fixed it
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12:12
<Joanet>
my computers are working fine and, randomly and suddenly, some of them get hanged
12:16
<workingcats>
hm ok didnt have that
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12:49
<Joanet>
alkisg: if I run 'sudo ltsp-build-client' command, and set LTSP_FATCLIENT=false on lts.conf default section, it will remain the same configuration as before building fat client, don't it?
12:50
what I want to do is test the fat image only on one client
12:50
<alkisg>
Which tutorial are you using?
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12:51
<Joanet>
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
12:51
but I have 12.04
12:52
<alkisg>
Yeah that poor page has suffered over time... :)
12:53
<Joanet>
what I though is to create the fat image from the thin ones and then test it only on one client
12:53
<alkisg>
What do you mean "from the thin ones"?
12:53
Will you be using an ltsp-build-client.conf file?
12:54
<Joanet>
I dont know exactly how build image works, but I was wondering if fat image is creating using thin client image as base, not from the scratch
12:54
I'm using that file, ltsp-build-client
12:54
<alkisg>
.conf?
12:54
<Joanet>
yes
12:55
<alkisg>
Pastebin its contents, which packages you've defined there etc
12:55
<Joanet>
IS A COPY FROM THE TUTORIAL
12:55
oops, sorry for the caps
12:57
<alkisg>
Then ltsp-build-client will use that to create your image, it will ignore your existing chroot
12:57
<Joanet>
ok, that's what I need to know :)
12:58
I have to create the image from the scratch, like I did when I customized chroot
12:58
:)
12:59
thanks for all your knowledge. I'll try in a test environment and let you know
12:59
thanks again
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13:15
<Joanet>
alkisg: what are the best drivers for Intel 82845 vga card? I want to try them using thin clients
13:15
also, how to add them to the thin client image?
13:15
<alkisg>
There aren't any special drivers
13:15
They come preinstalled, you've already tried them
13:16
<Joanet>
oops, ok
13:16
I undestood I'm using bad drivers
13:17
<alkisg>
Yes, but there aren't any other ones to try
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13:18
<Joanet>
ok thanks :)
13:18
<alkisg>
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/i8xxUnsupported
13:18
And https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack for the xorg-quantal drivers
13:20
<Joanet>
thanks
13:20
i've to go. thanks again
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19:25
<imox>
hello, I have no logout menu when I login with a client I use ubuntu 13.04 have somebody any idea?
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20:54
<lee>
in ltsp kiosk mode, as well as the web browser I also want to have a file manager window open (I'm thinking xfe), and be able to alt-tab between that and the browser. is that possible, and what's the proper way to tell it to launch xfe as well as the browser?
20:55
(also need to mount the share that the file manager will be pointing to)
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