IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 8 January 2014   (all times are UTC)

00:00
<vagrantc>
it's the same number of X traffic, plus additional ssh.
00:00
<DJUnreal>
hrmm
00:00
that's something i need to be turning off anyway then
00:00
mostly because for the purposes of what i'm doing, encryption is completely unnecessary over a LAN that's isolated from t'internet by two other VLANs
00:01* DJUnreal refers to man (5) lts.conf to find that entry again
00:01
<vagrantc>
most attacks come from the inside...
00:02* DJUnreal is running a 5-seat internet cafe for kids on a camp...
00:02
<DJUnreal>
we've got an Untangle server handling internet filtering and protection from the outside
00:02
the only things we need to protect from are pr0n and similar from t'internet
00:02
Laughs Out Loud
00:04
as much as it's a pain... at the end of the weekend i fully intend to reformat the server
00:04
it's on loan from a school and they want it back after y'see
00:05
naturally i've disabled local hardware though
00:06
ooh, will LOCALDEV=false disable a sound card as well? and if so, will SOUND=true override LOCALDEV=false ?
00:06
<vagrantc>
no
00:07
LOCALDEV is just about media: usb sticks, cdrom, and ... floppy disks.
00:07
that sort of thing
00:07
<DJUnreal>
right right
00:07
that explains that, cool
00:08
(and yes, another of my projects does still use floppy disks, although i'm writing a new version of that to eliminate the incumbent sysadmin and his archaic system)
00:08
in fact... you've just given me a ruddy good idea for that other project!!!
00:08
curse you :P
00:10
if it weren't gone midnight... i'd go fire up the servers here that need building :(
00:10
gotta get two more servers talking and working for the second site we're running on
00:11
think that'll be a job for tomorrow
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00:13
<DJUnreal>
with any luck the local menus thing will work nicely
00:15
<vagrantc>
haven't tried it in a long time, and never used it more than to test it out
00:15* DJUnreal nods
00:15
<DJUnreal>
i need to sit down at some point and find out from one of you guys how i can restrict certain things, but that's not a challenge for this weekend
00:16
we had issues with the last implementation that we tried to use, where the 'other' system menu was appearing, including things like root terminals (which although they were password protected, we didn't want visible at all)
00:16
whether that's a user environment thing, or an ltsp auto-populate-of-menu thing, i never worked out
00:17
also, eventually, i need to build a kickstart system that'll install and configure ltsp for me
00:18
would there be any mileage in me documenting it and potentially making the kickstart file (and associated postscripts) available?
00:19
obviously in a slightly more generic fashion than my customised one,
00:20
well, i say kickstart, the debian equivalent (assuming there even is one)
00:21
ahh, it's called FAI
00:38* DJUnreal prods vagrantc... is that something you think may be useful?
01:01
<DJUnreal>
right... i need to sleep... ciao for now
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04:35
<alkisg>
!alkisg-todo
04:35
<ltsp>
alkisg-todo: (#1) upload fixed nbd-server package in the PPA, or (#2) LDM password hash, or (#3) Check ltsp bugs in debian.org, or (#4) implement INITRD_CMD, INIT_CMD, RC_CMD, DM_CMD, LOGIN_CMD, LOGOUT_CMD etc, or (#5) ltsp-config aoe (for swap too)
04:37
<alkisg>
http://packages.qa.debian.org/n/nbd.html - Too young, only 4 of 5 days old
04:38
<vagrantc>
also failed to build on most architectures :(
04:38
<alkisg>
Whooops
04:38
<vagrantc>
maybe every single auto-build arch
04:39
<alkisg>
!forget alkisg-todo 4
04:39
<ltsp>
The operation succeeded.
04:39
<alkisg>
!learn alkisg-todo as Hooks for running scripts on these phases: INITRD/INIT/RC/DM/AUTH/LOGIN/SESSION/PERIODIC/LOGOUT/SHUTDOWN
04:39
<ltsp>
The operation succeeded.
04:40
<alkisg>
The worse things about aoe is that since it's not TCP traffic, it can't be regulated... for example we can't say "send only 80 mbps of aoe + X + ssh traffic to client01, to avoid flow control issues"
04:41
So if the newest nbd versions are more stable, I won't be spending any more time in aoe (swap etc)
04:42
*worst thing, meh
04:46* alkisg has been thinking of requiring sshd on ltsp clients... it would allow us to replace ltspfs with sshfs, but more importantly, it would make remoteapps/localapps integration much smoother
04:46
<alkisg>
ssh supports multiplexing, so we would be able to run localapps and get their output in parallel... epoptes could use that too, instead of socat
04:48
With key-based authentication only... vagrantc would you consider that, as a possible future direction?
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05:04
<vagrantc>
alkisg1: does sshfs have some correlary functionality to the auto(un)mount functionality of ltspfs?
05:04alkisg1 is now known as alkisg
05:05
<alkisg>
vagrantc: no idea, but I don't mind about that, our unmounting scheme is too ltsp specific... :)
05:05
<vagrantc>
sure
05:05
<alkisg>
Automounting => with udev rules like now
05:05
<vagrantc>
it's more the phantom mounts but the filesystem isn't actually mounted
05:05
but server-side it looks mounted
05:06
i seem to recall sbalneav did look at sshfs but wrote ltspfs because of certain limitations
05:06
<alkisg>
I don't think that will work for proper remote/local app integration
05:06
<vagrantc>
it'd be good to know what those were
05:08* alkisg wishes sbalneav was more active in ltsp, especially now with all the ltsp6 ideas, even if just for commenting on them
05:08* vagrantc nods
05:08
<alkisg>
Btw, why don't we do ssh port forwarding and run ltspfs over it? It wouldn't need more than a couple of lines, would it?
05:09
<vagrantc>
you'd need to generate different ports for each session...
05:10
and how to prevent users from listening on other sessions?
05:10
admittedly that's rather weak as it stands, still.
05:11
<alkisg>
The data would be encrypted
05:11
<vagrantc>
from where to where?
05:11
<alkisg>
So while they could send/receive from that port, they couldn't be part of the stream...
05:11
ltspfsd runs on the client, port 9220, right?
05:12
<vagrantc>
sure
05:12
<alkisg>
We forward that to some random port on the server, and export the port to the environment for ltspfs to see it. Let's say port 1234.
05:13
If some other person tries to send to port 1234, ltspfsd won't get that because it's not part of the encrypted stream
05:13
Or at least, I hope that's how it goes...
05:13* vagrantc doesn't think so
05:14
<vagrantc>
if you're talking about ssh -L or ssh -R ... anyone who can connect to that port has access
05:14
<alkisg>
Meh, why doesn't ssh allow port forwarding to ...sockets? :)
05:15
http://www.25thandclement.com/~william/projects/streamlocal.html
05:15
Hehe
05:16
Yup, *that* would be the best, I don't think we'd even need sshd on the client then
05:17
...and https://bugzilla.mindrot.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1256
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18:30
<kwmiebach>
I am on Ubuntu 13.10 - I am not sure if I should use ltsp-update-image or ltsp-build-client. I am on a 64bit server. I have both 32 bit and 64 bit clients.
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18:35* ogra_ wonders if ltsp-update-image should üprobably be renamed to ltsp-build-image ... it effectively doesnt update anything
18:36
<ogra_>
(it rebuilds the nbd shared img file from whatever is inside /opt/ltsp/$arch/)
18:46
<kwmiebach>
so i need both? first I build the image, then update the client?
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18:51
<ogra_>
kwmiebach, ltsp-build-client calls ltsp-update-image as last step anyway
18:52
i would make a backup of /opt/ltsp (just cp -a /opt/ltsp /opt/ltsp.old=, wipe whats underneath /opt/ltsp and then call ltsp-build-client with the right architecture option you want
18:52
if that didnt work you can always mv /opt/ltsp.old /opt/ltsp and are back where you are now
19:01
<kwmiebach>
ogra_: that information about one calling the other already solves the biggest part for me - and the backup trick is also great. last time i messed up everything and did not know how to get back
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19:23
<vmlintu>
alkisg: Just to let you know that for us nbd has been now finally stable - we are using now nbd 3.3 on the server and 3.4 on the client. Before updating the client to 3.4 there were some weird issues on pxe booting ltsp servers.
19:24
also configuration changes without restarting the server work fine
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19:46
<alkisg>
vmlintu: did you try if -persistent finally works properly?
19:47
It's already there in the LTSP code, but I think it wasn't working very well due to nbd bugs...
19:48
vmlintu: btw, I have uploaded fresh ltsp/ltspfs/ldm packages for 12.04 in the greek schools ppa if you're interested
19:51
<vmlintu>
alkisg: I don't remember doing much testing for -persistent
19:52
<alkisg>
vmlintu: what weird issues? the usual but rare hang of nbd-server, where it needed restart + kill to work again?
19:53
<vmlintu>
alkisg: the nbd-client died randomly when there was heavy load on it, but it happened only on kvm virtual machines
19:53
alkisg: most of our packages are now here: http://archive.opinsys.fi/
19:54
some packages are still in old repo, but they should land in there soon
19:56
alkisg: we did some fixes for the nbd-server hangs that needed restarts.. Those fixes are in current upstream version
19:56
<alkisg>
Yup I've seen the fixes in sourceforge... I'm waiting for nbd-server 3.6 which also fixes the authentication file parsing, before deploying it to schools here
19:57
<vmlintu>
hmm.. I haven't heard about authentication file parsing bugs
19:58
<alkisg>
http://packages.qa.debian.org/n/nbd.html
19:58
[2014-01-03] Accepted 1:3.6-1 in unstable (medium) (Wouter Verhelst)
19:58
http://packages.qa.debian.org/n/nbd/news/20140103T231840Z.html
19:59
* New upstream release - Fixes parsing of authorization file; Closes: #676678, LP: #1009393.
19:59
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nbd/+bug/1009393
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20:02
<vmlintu>
ok, that's something I probably have never even tried
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20:44
<alkisg>
stgraber: nbd in precise has various problems, and nbd 3.6 is supposed to fix a lot of them. If I e.g. test in 100 schools the upgrade to 3.6 and everything works fine without the sysadmin doing anything, can we SRU it in precise, or do we still need to pinpoint all the bugs and SRU each one of them separately?
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20:45
<alkisg>
Ah, or can we put it in precise-backports?
20:47
<stgraber>
for an SRU we'd need to document every change with bug reports but we can easily get it into precise-backports
20:47
<alkisg>
stgraber: backports are enabled by default, right?
20:47
<stgraber>
yep but apt won't install from it by default
20:47
you'll have to do: apt-get install -t precise-backports nbd
20:48
<alkisg>
It won't install, or it won't upgrade too?
20:48
<stgraber>
though that's only for the initial install. Any update pushed after that will be picked up as usual
20:48
<alkisg>
Cool
20:48
So I think that'd be fine
20:48
I'll push nbd-server 3.6 to a few hundred schools and report if everything works fine
20:49
<stgraber>
ok. Once you're happy that it's stable, use "requestbackport lxc" to file the appropriate bug report and give me the bug report so I go nag the right people
20:49
<alkisg>
requestbackport nbd, ok
20:50
Thanks
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22:06
<markit>
ehm, by mistake I've upgraded ubuntu 12.04, greek repo, ltsp from 5.4 to 5.5... any idea if I'm doomed or what shuld be changed (still updating chroot and have to rebuild the image and test)
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22:37
<markit>
seems to work, I cross my fingers, night
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22:56
<other_other_joe>
anyone know if there are any restrictions as to what ldm/rc.d scripts run when autologin is set?
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