IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 30 July 2008   (all times are UTC)

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07:27
<LTSPtnk>
thanks for daduke and ogra, everything works fine now in my ltsp envinroment
07:27
and i mean _everythin_
07:28
there was one more bug i run into in libnss-ldap but it was easy to work around
07:29
<daduke>
LTSPtnk: no idea what y'all talking about, but you're welcome.
07:30
<LTSPtnk>
ohh :d
07:30
i have changed my name
07:30
sec ago it was still TNKLTSP :D
07:31
U both helped me alot to make my LTSP envinroment work in the AD, now it is flawless with ldap and all :)
07:33
<ogra>
yay, great to hear
07:34
<LTSPtnk>
i commented the LDAP bug in launchpad and I'll post an article to finnish Ubuntu community when it gets rdy
07:36
and btw I was prolly allmost the first one's to make the old "how to"s work with Win Server 2008 AD :)
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08:23
<stgraber>
ogra: hey, I wondered about the localapps spec, is it planned to have a way to launch application both way ? With italc installed in the chroot the only feature that doesn't work is the abillity to launch applications as they try to start on the thin client instead of the server, any plan to solve that ? :)
08:25
oh and it'd be good if using the "standard" localapps reboot/halt would be run as root instead of the user so those two commands would work when italc is installed on the terminal server.
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08:36
<sbalneav>
Morning all
08:37
<warren>
any opinions about my LDM_DEBUG_TERMINAL proposal?
08:38
<ogra>
that starts a terminal on top of the ldm win, right ?
08:39
i'm not sure how youexpect to avoid races here on slow HW ... it might come up under the greeter instead of above
08:39
as we have no window manager running
08:41
hey sbalneav
08:41
!s
08:41
<ltspbot>
ogra: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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08:49
<etyack>
hey sbalneav!
08:51
<sbalneav>
hey hey
08:51
<warren>
ogra: no, it runs the terminal after login
08:51
<sbalneav>
warren: Sounds fine to me.
08:51
<warren>
ogra: so it becomes window managed
08:52
<ogra>
warren, hmm, but it runs it locally ?
08:53
how does the WM pick that up ?
08:53* ogra wonders how that can work
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08:53
<warren>
ogra: remote window managers can manage local apps
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08:54
<warren>
ogra: local firefox is managed by the remote window manager in the same way.
08:54
<ogra>
oh, right, X ...
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09:29
<jammcq>
hello homies
09:29
<ogra>
hey jammcq
09:30
<jammcq>
howdie ogra
09:31
<etyack>
morning jammcq
09:31
<jammcq>
wow, etyack is back
09:33
<ogra>
warren, can you add something to change the propmt or window title of that terminal so its clear its the ldm debug one ? else i'm fine with the patch
09:33
<warren>
ogra: how is that possible?
09:34
<ogra>
well, gnome-terminal and xterm accept options for that ... not sure how its done in konsole
09:34
<etyack>
i'm making my semiannual appearance :)
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09:34
<ogra>
warren, xterm -T "LDM DEBUGGING"
09:35
gnome-terminal -t "LDM DEBUGGING"
09:35
<warren>
ogra: it is a bit annoying that the option is different in different terminals
09:35
ogra: given that you need to enable this manually and it isn't default, do we really need this?
09:36
<ogra>
for terminal in "gnome-terminal -T $TITLE" konsole "xterm -t $TITLE"; do
09:36
<warren>
it seems konsole doesn't have a title option
09:36
<ogra>
i think that could work
09:36
<warren>
gnome-terminal is -t
09:36
not -T
09:36
<ogra>
err, right, other way round
09:36
<warren>
ok fine...
09:37
<ogra>
odd that konsole doesnt have that
09:37
i would think thats mandatory for a terminal program
09:38
you also might wnat to use case instead of for loops for such stuff ... its a lot faster (not that it matters in this specific case though)
09:38
<jammcq>
warren: when the terminal is launched, what's happening inside? is it just a bash prompt?
09:39
<warren>
jammcq: yes
09:39
<ogra>
local shell prompt on the client
09:39
<jammcq>
maybe set PS1
09:39
<ogra>
oh, hmm, on newer debian and ubuntu that might get you dash
09:40
<jammcq>
but PS1 should work in dash too, eh?
09:40
<ogra>
right
09:40
but dash isn really fun as login shell
09:40
<jammcq>
yeah, but it's posix complient :)
09:40
<ogra>
i'll need to test that
09:40
its also about three times faster than bash
09:41
but you wouldnt want to use it for login
09:41
<jammcq>
so is perl, but you don't see us jumping on that :)
09:41
<ogra>
well, it reduced bootime quite significantly on ubuntu ... thats wh debian swrithed as well now
09:42
<jammcq>
yeah, I know, i'm just playing with you
09:42
<ogra>
if we are using upstart it migth not matter that much anymore
09:42
:)
09:44
<jammcq>
I can't see how to launch a terminal with a PS1 preset
09:44
it seems the shell that gets launched wants to do its own thing
09:45
<ogra>
yeah, you need a custom command for that which you hand over to the terminal emulator
09:45
thats why i went for window title
09:45
easier to achieve
09:47
<jammcq>
ogra: if someone wanted to be a mirror for Ubuntu packages, do you know who they should contact?
09:48
<ogra>
there is a mail adress on the mirros page on the website ...
09:48
<jammcq>
k, thanks
09:48
I think he tried that, and nobody answered
09:48
<ogra>
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mirrors
09:48
If you set up a new mirror, please add it to this page and send contact information to [MAILTO]mirrors@ubuntu.com.
09:49
did he add it ?
09:49
<sbalneav>
Hmmmm..... this might work.... (Scott types furiously).
10:04
<jcastro>
jammcq: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+newmirror
10:04
hi guys!
10:04
looks like portland was a lot of fun
10:04
<Q-FUNK>
jcastro :)
10:04
<jammcq>
jcastro: jorge?
10:04
<Q-FUNK>
yup
10:04
<jcastro>
jammcq: of course
10:04
<ogra>
jcastro, yeah, you missed a lot
10:05
and freegeek is just awesome
10:05
<jammcq>
jcastro: I'll hopefully be showing a short video about freegeek at our next MUG meeting
10:05
<ogra>
(i didnt know that they ship all PCs they give out with ubuntu by default)
10:05
<jcastro>
jammcq: that would be awesome
10:05
ogra: really?
10:05
<ogra>
yeah
10:06
the hardy wallpaper was all over the place
10:07
<jcastro>
quick question for you guys: I have an LTSP client I acquired, and I would like to run the server on my existing desktop, and then use synergy so I can have one big monitor from the thin client back to the server itself. Is that doable or will I punch a hole in the time-space continuum?
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10:13
<ogra>
no idea, i always use x2x which works fine but you cant drag windos from one display to another
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11:11
<uscamayta>
holas
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11:40
<warren>
ogra: you there?
11:40
anybody with Ubuntu 8.04 or 8.10 here?
11:40
need something critical tested
11:41
<laga>
maybe. what do you need?
11:41
(i'm not running full-blown LTSP)
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11:47
<gbolte>
warren, I have it at home
11:47
:D
11:47
<warren>
don't need LTSP for this test
11:47
you running i386?
11:48* gbolte is not
11:48
<gbolte>
:(
11:48
<warren>
I suspect that Adobe is about to release a totally broken Flash 10
11:48
<gbolte>
oh yeah
11:48
<ogra>
warren, sorry, massivley hogged by work stuff, what do you need ?
11:48
<warren>
I need to test this on Ubuntu
11:48
<gbolte>
I have flash 10 at homew
11:48
<warren>
I need someone with i386 Ubuntu to test something rightnow
11:49
<johnny>
no ubuntu here atm
11:49
today is the day i leave fair portland, she will be missed
11:49
<ogra>
warren, tell me what it is and i can forward the request to #ubuntu-devel (or you can just ask there)
11:49
<warren>
i'll ask there
11:49
<johnny>
ogra is already home :)
11:49
<ogra>
i'm still running 8.04, no flash 10 package for that
11:50
johnny, heh, already is good :)
11:50
<johnny>
4 hours til i depart
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11:53
<warren>
ogra: no problem with lufthansa then?
11:53
<ogra>
not so much food on the flight
11:53
they rotate the strike through the departments ... catering was the first
11:53
and i was lucky that they only rotate today to the people caring for my luggage
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12:17
<btil>
anyone on today?
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12:33
<ogra>
btil, partially (massively busy with other stuff though)
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12:40
<gbolte>
rofl http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/dsn/en/document?journalid=533A28A40D73DB0DE040AE0AB6E163A8&docid=309B0A8F2149B435E040A68F5B282D9A
12:40
that is sorta funny
12:40
they are like we cant tell you how but these people can
12:43
<ogra>
well, the more funny stuff is that dell ships LinDVD on these machines
12:43
so the users should use that indeed
12:44
<laga>
is lindvd still updated?
12:44
<ogra>
no idea, its commercial
12:44
i dont follow it
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12:47
<johnny>
well.. it'd be nice if they didn't do an entire program and just licensed the codec.. then we can use actual programs that exist already
12:47
<laga>
same thing with liblame...
12:47
<johnny>
via gstreamer or whatever is hot these days
12:48
<ogra>
yeah
12:48
they might do that in future releases
12:50
<laga>
not via gstreamer, via something that is useful to the rest of the world - like libdvdcss :) gstreamer could build on that
12:53
<johnny>
libdvdcss LOL
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13:22
<warren>
ogra: I tried a loop with things like "gnome-terminal -t 'LDM DEBUG'" but it doesn't seem to work
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13:25
<ogra>
weird
13:26
oh, indeed, it cant
13:26
you have the if -x after that
13:26
/usr/bin/gnome-terminal -t 'LDM DEBUG' wont return true
13:27
xterm should always be there if X is installed though, how about just resorting to that ?
13:28
else the code needs a bit shuffling
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13:40
<ogra>
hmm, metacity changes it for me ...
13:41
xterm -title moop comes up with moop as a title but switches to user@system:/$path
13:41
same for gnome-terminal :/
13:41
so i guess we cant do anything about it
13:42
its just odd if the user has a saved session that brings up terminals, he wont easily see which one is the debug one
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13:46
<johnny>
you can tell gnome-terminal not to do that
13:46
i don't know about xterm
13:47
you can tell gnome-terminal not to replace or touch the title at all
13:47
or even add it as a prefix i think, so it'd be moop: user@system:/
13:48
<ogra>
well, but konsole and gnome-terminal are the least likely ones to be installed in the chroot
13:48
prefix is cool ... lets see
13:49
hmm, tha would need a specific profile in case of gnome
13:53
<johnny>
hmm.. could go for a color change to indicate it.. since -samename doesn't seem to offer what you want
13:53
i don't see any options not to update the title, -samename is the closest :(
13:54
<stgraber>
xterm -bg red -fg black ?
13:54
<ogra>
that gets wonky with konsole and gnome-terminal
13:55* sbalneav shreiks!!!!!!
13:55
<ogra>
not sure how konsole does it but for gnome-terminal we'd need to ship a profile for such stuff
13:55
<stgraber>
why would you start konsole/gnome-terminal ?
13:55
<sbalneav>
ahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
13:55
ahahahah
13:55
I GOT IT!!!!!
13:55
<ogra>
stgraber, see warrens mail to ltsp-devel
13:55
<sbalneav>
WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
13:55
<jammcq>
got it?
13:55
<ogra>
no idea, i would just use xterm :)
13:56
<sbalneav>
Oh man
13:56
<jammcq>
it's only for debugging purposes
13:56
<ogra>
right
13:56
<jammcq>
nothing fancy needed, eh?
13:56
<ogra>
xterm should be fine
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13:56
<ogra>
jammcq, well, in the case where people have a session with 10 xterms stored it gets hard to find the right one
13:57
so setting title would be nice
13:57
<stgraber>
ogra: I removed the mail, will have a look at the archive. Anyway I don't see why you'd have gnome-terminal or konsole installed in the chroot ...
13:57
<ogra>
but that gets overriden
13:57
stgraber, me neither :)
13:58
<jammcq>
ogra: but how could they have 10 xterms up? they are just logging in at this point
13:58
<ogra>
well, the debug term will sit on the desktop as well
13:59
and as warren noted will be managed by the desktops WM
13:59
so it will just look like all the others
13:59
<warren>
You wont have it unless you enable the option
14:00
I rather not document that option
14:00
<ogra>
indeed
14:00
<warren>
Since it is ONLY useful for debugging during development
14:00
<ogra>
why ? it helps a lot
14:00
its also good for poking around in the running client without having to switch consoles
14:01
what would close it btw ?
14:01
apart from X dying
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14:07
<devsforev>
Has anyone had experience setting VLC up as a local app?
14:14* jammcq is still wondering what sbalneav was so excited about
14:14
<sbalneav>
Well, 3 things.
14:14
1) I've been doing both the select and pselect wrong all along
14:15
<jammcq>
heh
14:15
<sbalneav>
I have to re FD_ZERO and FD_SET before every select. I thought it was a one-time thing
14:15
<jammcq>
oh yeah
14:15
<sbalneav>
2) I have the 1 second timeouts going now.
14:16
<jammcq>
usually you'd initialize a variable and use that to re-initialize the variables you pass to select
14:17
<sbalneav>
3) I've got a test function here that doesn't do *ANY* expects. I think I can completely eliminate all reliance on string values.
14:17
Still test..
14:20* jammcq is just happy we got our scotty back
14:31
<jjg>
anyone here deploying in a power sensitive environment ... ie., solar powered?? I'm looking a low-power client
14:32
<warren>
jjg: http://www.artecgroup.com/thincan/models.html
14:32
jjg: that's about the lowest power possible
14:32
jjg: but your monitor will use a lot more power than the client
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14:38
<ogra>
well, arm clients will be way lower powered
14:38
i'll work on an arm port for intrepid
14:38
(like below 1W)
14:40
and there are some howtos online how to turn a digital picture fram into a monitor ... these are smaller and take a lot less power than a fully fledged LCD ... but indeed that requires HW tinkering and soldering
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18:19
<devsforev>
Hello everyone again. I just had a quick question about the LocalApps page on the wiki. Why does one need to create private/public ssh keypairs for the root user? What if the root never intends on using those applications?
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18:27
<gbolte>
devsforev, are you talking about the client machines?
18:29
<vagrantc>
devsforev: are you using LTSP 4.2, or one of the LTSP 5 implementations? (Ubuntu, Fedora, Debian ... ) ?
18:31
<devsforev>
I am talking about the client machines, and I am using LTSP 5 in Debian
18:32
<vagrantc>
LocalApps isn't yet supported on the ltsp5 implementations, though a lot of work was done on it this weekend
18:34
most of the information on wiki.ltsp.org applies to ltsp 4.x ...
18:35
<devsforev>
ahh, no worries. Thank you very much. I've been trying to find a way to get videos to stream nicely on the terminals. I know that LTSP isn't the best way to do this, but it is best suited for everything else i need for my enviornment. I already have LDM_DIRECTX = true declared.
18:36* vagrantc was hoping to upload a new ldm to experimental today ...
18:37
<ogra>
have you got it running ?
18:37
<gbolte>
hmm videos to stream?
18:37
<ogra>
i dotn get the hoe mounted yet, but didnt have time to inspect
18:37
<devsforev>
i was thinking about checking out a mythbuntu thin client, but i don't know if I can force a mythbuntu client to boot off of a standard LTSP sever. Thoughts?
18:37
<vagrantc>
ogra: i had it running on sunday
18:37
<ogra>
localapps ?
18:37
<vagrantc>
no, ldm
18:37
<devsforev>
I was just told that localapps isn't stable on LTSP 5
18:38
<ogra>
ah
18:38
<gbolte>
hmm I am starting to wonder if our implementation here at work is the only one that works well with video
18:38
lol
18:38
<ogra>
devsforev, it wa developed las week
18:38
*was
18:38
so no, it isnt stable yet
18:39
<gbolte>
I can pop a dvd in the drive and play it here japerry tested that a day or two ago
18:39
<ogra>
for localapps we only have the infrastructure yet there is still way to go for a proper transparent implementation
18:40
but we're getting ther
18:40
e
18:40
<devsforev>
gbolte: can you give me any details on your implementation? my goal is to play files off of the same LTSP server using xine, VLC, or mplayer. Thank you
18:41
<japerry>
devsforev: we use OpenSUSE 11, Kiwi-ltsp, and some beefy-ass clients =P
18:41
devsforev: http://www.fcdnet.org/japerry/2008/05/ltsp-kiwi-opensuse-11-novell-edirectory.html
18:41
<gbolte>
nvidia drivers on the clients seems to help
18:41
:P
18:41
<devsforev>
japerry: thanks! i'll check that out
18:41
<japerry>
devsforev: our systems are integrated nvidia 7xxx series motherboards, we install all the codecs for OpenSUSE 11, and everything works
18:42
<gbolte>
3d acceleration too
18:42
<japerry>
devsforev: DVDs even work if you have the right codecs. Totem is a little weird with skipping through playback, but it works in general
18:42
<ogra>
japerry, where di you vnish to btw ? you were just gone on the second day
18:42
*did
18:42
<devsforev>
gbolte: I've tried real hard to get the nvidia drivers to work. I have a GeForce2 Go NV11 and every time i "startx", it goes to a black screen that I cannot escape out of without a hard reboot.
18:42
<japerry>
devsforev: the only thing we don't have working (I believe) is audio CDs
18:43
ogra: yah I was beat from OSCON and had a wedding sunday. I was hoping to cram in sat with you guys, but I just was gone
18:43
<gbolte>
devsforev, what distro are you using?
18:43
<devsforev>
after a couple days of frustration and still getting the black screen, I gave up and started to search for other methods to improve video quality. But if you say that it works, then I will continue my search for a way to get them work
18:43
<japerry>
ogra: we did get lots of documentation for kiwi-ltsp done, as well as more testing for the KIWI-images for LTSP .... I performed a few different test cases
18:43
<devsforev>
gbolte: Debian Etch
18:43
<ogra>
devsforev, just make sure to not have nvidia on the server the closed source drivers both brong their own mesa drivers that breaks for most clients
18:43
<japerry>
devsforev: gbolte and I use OpenSUSE
18:44
<ogra>
*bring
18:44
(both -> meaning fglrx does the same ... )
18:45
<vagrantc>
devsforev: at this point, i'd recommend using Debian etch + ltsp backports, or just Debian lenny (which just froze this weekend)
18:45
<devsforev>
hmmm.... I do have the drivers from nvidia on the server. But I kind of need them --- the server is running MythTV
18:45
<vagrantc>
LDM_DIRECTX isn't implemented in the ldm with etch (unless you're using the backports)
18:45
<ogra>
you dont need them if you want to display on the client only
18:45
<japerry>
devsforev: if your server and clients are nvidia based, then you're fine
18:45
<ogra>
yeah, indeed, if both is the same thats fine
18:46
but dare you to install fglrx or nvidia on the server while having different clients
18:46
that gets massively slow
18:46
<japerry>
yah you don't wanna do that =P
18:47
totally agree with ogra on that :-P
18:47* devsforev starts hunting around the server for what video drivers are installed
18:47
<ogra>
good is to have nvidia or fglrx clients and some chep noname card in the server
18:47
<gbolte>
I dont know how ltsp works in deb env
18:47
<japerry>
devsforev: we have standardized on nvidia clients, but you need to have the nvidia-settings binary installed on the server if you want the hardware extensions (like compiz, opengl, etc)
18:47
<ogra>
the same as in ubuntu or fedora
18:47
<gbolte>
here we can choose what packages get pushed to the clients
18:47
<ogra>
the only distro that differs is suse
18:48
<japerry>
yah our server is an ATI supermicro server motherboard with 8mb video ram =P
18:48
<gbolte>
hehe
18:48
it makes up for that in other areas
18:48
<devsforev>
My sevver has the nvidia-glx driver installed -- the same one I am trying to push to this client
18:49
<ogra>
in ubuntu you would install linux-restricted-modules and nvidia-glx in the client chroot, run ltsp-update-image and be done
18:49
i guess in debian there is some module compiling involved
18:49
<gbolte>
ah well thats what he needs to do I guess
18:50
<devsforev>
from what I understand, ltsp-update-image neither exists or is needed in Debian with LTSP 5
18:50
<gbolte>
we just change our config.xml and run kiwi-ltsp -c
18:50
<vagrantc>
no need to run ltsp-update-image on debian
18:50
<ogra>
devsforev, debian uses nfs, so no, isnt needed there
18:50
<devsforev>
okay, great
18:50
<vagrantc>
devsforev: but again, i'd recommend using the ltsp backport packages
18:50
!debian
18:51
<ltspbot>
vagrantc: "debian" is is a GNU/Linux based operating system that makes an excellent LTSP server. You can find it at http://www.debian.org. for information about LTSP on debian see http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP
18:51
<ogra>
yeah, dont use plain etch
18:51
<vagrantc>
or debian lenny
18:51
<ogra>
yeah
18:51
<devsforev>
what do the backports provide for me?
18:51
<vagrantc>
the ldm in etch doesn't support LDM_DIRECTX
18:51
like i said earlier
18:52
<devsforev>
ahhh, thank you
18:52
i will go about looking at more information about the backports right now
18:52
<vagrantc>
should be information about installing the backports at the Howto
18:52
<ogra>
just use th elink above
18:52
<gbolte>
yeah I dont think we have ever had LDM_DIRECTX enabled
18:54vagrantc has quit IRC
18:55
<devsforev>
so am I supposed to replace my current LTSP with the backports version, or install the backports after I have a working LTSP server?
18:55
<gbolte>
ogra, all it dose is send x communication unencrypted right?
18:56
<ogra>
well, it drops all security apart from the password handshake
18:56
but also frees up CPU
18:56
<gbolte>
is that just supposed to alleviate the processor load from the client?
18:57staffencasa has quit IRC
19:02
<ogra>
its supposed to work like xdmcp but with a tad more security and the control socket for the other implementaions like local devices etc
19:04
<gbolte>
ah
19:04
yeah I am looking at the top output of our server and my client and ssh is never really a heavy app
19:04
<ogra>
warren, iÄm just looking at gadis weird rc.d script ... whats that woth adding ~/.ssh/config for ?
19:04
*with
19:06* ogra shudders about the hackishness of that script ...
19:10
<ogra>
bah that really needs fixing ...
19:10
warren, how did that script work for you at all ?
19:11
assuming you used it
19:11
(i'm talking bout S01-localapps)
19:12
dumping a config file into ~/.ssh/ will prevent sshfs from mounting in any case ... sshfs can only mount into empty dirs
19:14
and the sshfs call wont use the ldm socket tht way
19:29gbolte has quit IRC
19:31japerry has quit IRC
19:34devsforev has quit IRC
19:39* ogra gives up for the day
19:49oh207 has joined #ltsp
19:58Gadi has joined #ltsp
20:24
<dberkholz>
warren: i'm gonna look through my oscon notes tonight and see whether i can put together a worthwhile article ... if i don't get back to you by noon PST tomorrow, feel free to email lwn (if you haven't already!)
20:27jammcq has joined #ltsp
20:27
<jammcq>
hey all
20:28Gadi has quit IRC
20:29Gadi has joined #ltsp
20:32sbalneav has joined #ltsp
20:37MacIver has quit IRC
20:42Gadi has left #ltsp
20:45
<warren>
dberkholz: alread did
20:48
<dberkholz>
warren: sounds good. guess they just didn't link it in the weekly edition, then
20:48
warren: btw, is your blog on some planets? which ones, if any?
20:49
<warren>
dberkholz: Fedora Planet
20:49
<dberkholz>
warren: can't say i'm surprised about that one. =)
20:49
<warren>
Masochist Planet
20:49
<dberkholz>
just thinking about getting a bit broader distribution of the stuff. i'll blog about it too, if nothing else
20:50
i'm on some overly large number
21:03* warren just gave more money to Obama...
21:04btilma has joined #ltsp
21:04
<btilma>
anyone online now????
21:05
<jammcq>
hey btilma
21:05
<btilma>
whats up???
21:05
i keep jumping on and off and usually don't find anyone on
21:05
<jammcq>
not much, how about you?
21:05
<btilma>
busy, but good
21:06
am i missing a time zone thing or something?
21:06
<jammcq>
yeah, i've seen your queries. it almost always happens just as i'm heading out
21:06
<btilma>
ah
21:06
<jammcq>
I'm same timezone as you
21:06
<btilma>
hmmm
21:06
maybe i just don't wait around long enough
21:07
you heading out now?
21:07
<jammcq>
nope, i'm here for a while
21:07
<btilma>
cool
21:08
i was going to hack the docs up a bit, but wanted to make sure there wasn't something i should be aware of
21:09sbalneav has joined #ltsp
21:09
<sbalneav>
Evening all
21:09
<btilma>
hey
21:10
<jammcq>
Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
21:10cpunches has joined #ltsp
21:12
<jammcq>
btilma: there's a section at the end of that document that is way out of date. Gadi spent alot of time over the weekend cleaning up the list of variables that can go in lts.conf. I think we need to get that list and put it into the docs
21:12
Also, I think the "Theory of operation" needs alot of work
21:12btil has quit IRC
21:12btilma is now known as btil
21:12
<jammcq>
back in the really old days of LTSP, I think that was our strong point, we had some really great documentation that helped people understand how it all worked
21:12
<btil>
sorry, signed in on two comps, in on one now.
21:13
<jammcq>
no prob
21:13
did you catch all that?
21:13
<btil>
well we're going to have them again
21:13
yes
21:13
i'm glad gadi took the time to go through the list
21:13
i'll work on getting that in this evening.
21:13MacIver has joined #ltsp
21:13
<jammcq>
I think with your help in setting up the tools, and organizing the docs, it should help a whole lot
21:13
<btil>
i just have to figure out how to check out the project(s)
21:14
still forking with bzr, haven't done much more reading about it
21:14
<jammcq>
we need to find a way to make it clear that some of the distros do things quite differently
21:14
try and show where things are the same, and where they are different
21:15
<btil>
we can totally do that.\
21:16
<jammcq>
yeah, I'm getting the feeling that we can do it
21:16
you seem to have the drive to get some of this stuff moving in the rigth direction, and I think that's fantastic
21:17
<btil>
i like having good documentation.
21:17
i have firsthand experience with how bad documentation can really hurt a project
21:24
not that the documentation for ltsp is bad, just that you must admit it's a bit disorganized at the moment, what with most of it over on edubuntu
21:25
<jammcq>
yeah, I agree
21:25
LTSP-5 is sooo different from previous versions, and we never really updated the docs for LTSP-4.x
21:25
the LTSP-3 docs were in pretty good shape, but that stuff is pretty old now
21:28
<btil>
agreed
21:29
i think i used 3 or 4 about 4 years ago, and i remember hacking around a bit before it worked right.
21:38
brb
22:02
you still there jammcq
22:02
?
22:02
<jammcq>
yep
22:04
<btil>
getting error on committing changes...
22:04
<jammcq>
ummm
22:04
<btil>
got manpages building, but can't commit.
22:04
bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(http://bazaar.launchpad.net
22:05
<jammcq>
ogra or vagrant would have to help with that
22:05
i'm completely lost with bzr
22:05
<btil>
ah
22:05
well, as soon as i can figure it out you can see for yourself...manpages building
22:05
apparently the regular docbook tools don't build xml-based manpages correctly
22:06
so with the docbook-utils you get a docbook2x-man command that does build correctly.
22:06
i check for it in ./configure, so it will stop if it's not there.
22:06
now to port the variables in lts.conf to the man section of the manual
22:06
<jammcq>
do you have gadi's latest list?
22:07
<btil>
for which i need to check out the project(ltsp) i think
22:07
no, b/c i don't have the project source tree.
22:07
how do i get it.
22:07
?
22:07
sorry to be so verbose, i'm just trying to get all my ?'s in while i have you online...
22:08
<jammcq>
unfortunately, i'm so out of the core development, i'm not much help.
22:08
sbalneav: do you have the magic command for checking out the main ltsp project from bzr?
22:08
<sbalneav>
Yup
22:08
<Ryan52>
btil: bzr branch lp:~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk
22:09
<sbalneav>
yeah
22:09
Ryan52 can type faster than me :)
22:09
<jammcq>
he's got smaller fingers, they move faster
22:09* Ryan52 can copy and paste faster than sbalneav :)
22:09
<btil>
thanks
22:10
seems to be checking out for me...
22:10
any ideas about my error Ryan52?
22:11
bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eltsp-docwriters/ltsp/ltsp-docs-trunk/.bzr/branch/lock): Transport operation not possible: http does not support mkdir()
22:11
i know it's something stupid, i can commit on my laptop, but this is the first time i try from the desktop
22:11
<Ryan52>
btil: are you trying to push on a checkout you check-ed out over http?
22:12
<sbalneav>
copy and paste? That some fancy-pants gui thing? I'm sitting at home here with my vt100 terminal at 1200 baud, you young whippersnaper :)
22:12
<btil>
vt100...heheheh
22:12
not sure, the checkout line is used is...
22:13
<sbalneav>
Yeah, to check it in you'll want bzr+ssh://....
22:13
<btil>
ah
22:13
yes i checked out over http. i see now
22:13
i'll go back and look at how to do it over ssh
22:13
sorry, bzr novice
22:13
brb...smoke
22:15
<Ryan52>
sbalneav: you can copy and paste without a GUI, using screen.
22:16
<sbalneav>
Yeah, I know, I'm just being silly :)
22:16
How long have you been programming?
22:17
<Ryan52>
I think a little over a year now.
22:17
<sbalneav>
Nice.
22:17
Freegeek was pretty cool.
22:17
I liked the old hardware section.
22:19
<Ryan52>
ya.
22:19
<btil>
bak
22:20
yes, freegeek was VERY cool
22:24japerry has joined #ltsp
22:25
<btil>
can anybody give me a quick checkout line for bzr for the ltsp-docs project over ssh...my launchpad username is btilma
22:26
sorry to be lazy and not RTFM, but i've got stuff to commit...;-}
22:26
<Ryan52>
btil: bzr push lp:~ltsp-docwriters/ltsp/ltsp-docs-trunk/
22:27
btil: that should push the changes in your http checkout over ssh
22:27
<btil>
still get the error.
22:27
bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eltsp-docwriters/ltsp/ltsp-docs-trunk/.bzr/branch/lock): Transport operation not possible: http does not support mkdir()
22:28
im a bit of a bzr novice...i've only used it once before, and that was on saturday.
22:28
<Ryan52>
then: 'bzr branch lp:~ltsp-docwriters/ltsp/ltsp-docs-trunk/' to get a new checkout
22:28
or, 'bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-docwriters/ltsp/ltsp-docs-trunk/' to make sure that it does ssh.
22:31
<btil>
i think that worked, although when i did 'bzr ci' it seemed to actually push the docs up at the same time, and on my laptop i've got it so i have to do 'bzr ci' and then 'bzr push'...
22:32
not sure quite what the difference is, but i apparently have some reading to do on bzr.
22:34
waiting to see if my changes show up on https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-docwriters/ltsp/ltsp-docs-trunk
22:34
<Ryan52>
that'll take a while...
22:34
<btil>
that's what i understood.
22:34
<Ryan52>
do 'bzr missing' and it'll show you what you have locally that's not on lp.
22:34
(and vise versa)
22:34
<btil>
brb, going to fix an a/c unit...it's hot here, and the a/c is leaking.
22:35
i'll do bzr missing first.
22:35
had to do 'bzr missing bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-docwriters/ltsp/ltsp-docs-trunk/', but it says it's up-to-date...
22:35
brb
22:43* jammcq is heading to bed. see ya'll later
22:44
<btil>
later man
22:44
thanks for the help
22:44
got the a/c fixed...it's all about the angle...
22:44
and the web interface on launchpad is updated...thanks Ryan52.
22:44
<Ryan52>
jammcq: bye.
22:45
btil: np.
22:45
<btil>
i'll commit that way for now, until i figure out how to make it better.
22:46
the doc i'm looking for that gadi updated for the lts.conf variables is server/doc/lts-parameters.txt?
22:47
<Ryan52>
that sounds right.
22:48
<btil>
what's the file format...i found one at server/configs/k12linux/lts.conf that looks like a decent representation, but any notes on the file format?
22:48
sections are prefixed with [<section>]
22:48
do variables need to be in specific sections, or are the section titles there for readability?
22:48
never mind
22:49
i see how the layout works.
22:49
i'll let you guys know if i have more ?'s
22:49
off to port the lts-parameters.txt to xml for manpage,pdf and html building...and burn off some of this caffeine....;-}
22:50vagrantc has joined #ltsp
22:50
<btil>
hello vagrantc
22:51* vagrantc waves
22:57
<sbalneav>
Hey vagrantc
23:06
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: heya
23:38
<ltsppbot>
"sbalneav" pasted "ssh test program, no reliance upon any string patterns other than SENTINEL" (291 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/41
23:38
<sbalneav>
That's a HUGE cleanup. Seems to work exactly the way I want.
23:46
<dberkholz>
evening vagrantc, sbalneav!
23:46* vagrantc hopes it works exactly the way vagrantc wants, too. :)
23:47
<vagrantc>
dberkholz: congrats on gentoo LTSP :)
23:47
<sbalneav>
Well, it seems to work exactly the way it SHOULD.
23:47
<dberkholz>
vagrantc: johnny deserves the congrats, i'm still hacking around with mainly his stuff at this point
23:47
<sbalneav>
i.e. reliably :)
23:48
<dberkholz>
although i expect i'll be putting more work into it to get it into shape for the main repos (both ltsp & gentoo)
23:51
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: We need to change the message area on the greeter from a label (1 line) to a GtkTextArea (multiline) so we can get better status messages.
23:52
The neat thing about that bit of code is: I'm not expect()ing anything. I basically dump from the "greeter" (a hacked up one) to the ssh, and from the ssh to the greeter.
23:53
I collect together ALL the input from ssh, and eventually we see the sentinel.
23:53
so I'm not relying on
23:53
": " or anything like that.
23:53
<vagrantc>
nice.
23:54
<sbalneav>
Plus, if we get ssh errors, if we have a GtkTextArea, we'll see them easily.
23:54* vagrantc still means to test if it works with ssh keys
23:54
<sbalneav>
It should, since we'd just see the "LTSPROCKS" right away, and exit.
23:55
I'll putter around with a branch tomorrow, see if I can hack in this new stuff. Should make the login process a lot more reliable.
23:55
i.e. less fragile than it is now.
23:55
<vagrantc>
looking forward to it :)
23:56
i was going to upload 2.0.9 to debian experimental, but maybe i should wait for your new stuff
23:58
<sbalneav>
Well, I probably won't get it done tomorrow, and Friday I'm off to the cottage.
23:58
I may work on it out there, but no internet :)
23:59
<vagrantc>
heh
23:59
ok, well ... i'll try and get ldm uploaded tomorrow then
23:59
<sbalneav>
Or, I may just look at the sky, watch my Goss hawks, stargaze, drink beer, walk on the beach, catch garter snakes, etc etc etc.