IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 31 January 2019   (all times are UTC)

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13:37
<Faith>
Hello I'm trying to configure LTSP with Ubuntu 18.04, but it's not working. I've followed the instruticions on http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation/Ubuntu, with the greek repo, adapting to my case (must be isc-dhcp-server and chroot with nbd). But when the client boot, it stops in this error: "no search or nameservers found in /run/net-ens160.conf /run/net-ens160.conf /run/net6-*.conf Negotiation: ..Error: Unknown error in reply to NBD_OPT_GO; cannot
13:37
continue"
13:38
I can connect with the nbd-client command so nbd is working, I don't know if the problem is on nbd-client or dns from the client, because the DNS config is missing on /run/ens-160.conf
13:38
See here https://pastebin.com/jTw4XRHw
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13:50
<alkisg>
Faith: do you have a grad-amd64 nbd export?
13:50
<Faith>
yes
13:51
when I run nbd-client 10.20.20.4 -N /opt/ltsp/grad-amd64 /dev/nbd0
13:51
<alkisg>
Why are you sending ROOTPATH='/opt/ltsp/amd64' if you want grad-amd64?
13:51
<Faith>
it works
13:51
<alkisg>
Send /opt/ltsp/grad-amd64
13:51
Ah ok got it
13:51
Change IPAPPEND 3 to IPAPPEND 2
13:52
In /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/*/pxelinux.cfg/default
13:52
!ltsp-discuss
13:52
<ltsp>
ltsp-discuss: at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
13:52
<alkisg>
If you want more details, search the mailing list, I answered it analytically a month ago or so
13:53
<Faith>
I'll try
13:53
Thank you :)
13:53
<alkisg>
yw
13:57
<Faith>
alkisg, I works!
13:57
but every time that I run ltsp-update-image it will overwrite pxe config
13:57
<alkisg>
Yes, read the mailing list for the how-to that I wrote there
13:57
<Faith>
ok
13:58
thank you again :)
13:58
<alkisg>
np
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16:57
<dominion31489>
Hello Im looking some info.
16:57
I've been searching online, but does anyone know if LTSP creates separate sessions for multiple users getting into a VM? If user1 and user2 connect to VM1 at the same time, will they see each others changes or will LTSP create separate desktops?
17:01
Also for a standard VM running Ubuntu with 5GB of memory, how many LTSP clients can connect to a single VM at once?
17:12
<alkisg>
dominion31489: ltsp doesn't use VMs
17:12
I think you should describe what you want to do, and IF it is related to ltsp
17:13
If you just happen to use VMs with LTSP, it's not related to ltsp, it doesn't have any code for VM management at all
17:13
So whatever happens in normal linux, happens in ltsp too
17:13
<dominion31489>
What do you mean it doesnt use VM's? I was able to put it on Ubuntu via Vsphere
17:23
Im basically trying to use LTSP for a student lab with about 20 VM's running Ubuntu.
17:23
I wanted to use the thin client manager to manage user accounts and allow them to connect to different VM's.
17:24
<mwalters>
you can run ltsp on a vm, but ltsp doesn't manage VMs in any way
17:25
<dominion31489>
Right, I dont necessarily need it to manage them but work in such a way that user1 can remote into VM1, VM2, VM3 etc.
17:25
<mwalters>
if VM1 is an ltsp server, you can use thin clients and each client will get a separate session
17:25
<dominion31489>
I need a non-concurrent thin client solution
17:26
Will I need to install LTSP on each VM?
17:26
<mwalters>
probably... then you need to figure out how to target specific servers for each client
17:26
alkisg: is ltsp-cluster still a thing?
17:26
<dominion31489>
Could I just target their IP address?
17:27
In the thin client manager I see it allows you to add a guest based on the IP address. Could I not just create a LTSP login for that specific IP/VM>
17:27
<mwalters>
generally, booting is handled via dhcp, but you could probably have vmlinuz/initramfs stage locally, I think and target a specific server
17:28
login is just "normal" user accounts
17:28
ldm logs in to the ltsp server via ssh
17:28
authenticates, rather
17:29
are the student's desktops thick clients?
17:29
e.g., they all have an os/disk/etc already
17:32
<alkisg>
mwalters: no, ltsp-cluster isn't maintained anymore
17:33
dominion31489: the ltsp code there's no "thin client manager"
17:33
I've no idea what you're talking about, and I'm the most active ltsp developer...
17:34
I also don't know how "vsphere" relates to ltsp; if they offer a custom build of ltsp, we don't know about it
17:34
<mwalters>
x2go/ldap is probably a better solution than ltsp based on what I see
17:34
<dominion31489>
From the LTSP server, this dude is using a thin client manager.
17:34
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aFcDlp9-xw
17:35
<alkisg>
dominion31489: did you notice "2013" there?
17:35
<mwalters>
this is 5 years old
17:35
<dominion31489>
Ah
17:35
<alkisg>
You can easily load balance ltsp servers, or direct users to different servers; but I haven't understood what your actual needs are, unrelated to "how to implement them"
17:38
So anyway to try to answer your initial question, in ltsp, if user1 and user2 log in at the same time, they're working on the "same pc", so they see each other's changes immediately
17:40
<dominion31489>
Ok thanks for your help everyone
17:40
<alkisg>
np
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18:32
<josefig>
hello, i got a problem with my UPS and the server shutdown, when I turn on again with new UPS my LTSP Clients have no internet, they can boot but not Internet at all
18:32
when I log into the server using ssh it has intenet but not the LTSP Clients
18:35
<mwalters>
is your ltsp server also a dhcp server, or are you doing proxydhcp?
18:37
<josefig>
mwalters: yes, i have a dhcp server using dnsmasq. I did again the ltsp-config dnsmasq --no-proxy-dhcp --overwrite but I got when the pc boot 2 options of PXE boot, Boot from Network both times
18:37
I'm trying again
18:38
<mwalters>
are you using a 2 NIC config on the ltsp server?
18:38
<josefig>
yes i am
18:38
<||cw>
thin clients or fat?
18:38
<mwalters>
oic, I'm not super familiar with that, I'll defer to someone else
18:39
<alkisg>
!install
18:39
<ltsp>
install: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation/Ubuntu for Ubuntu, or http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation for other distributions
18:39
<||cw>
is fat, is your server configured as a router?
18:39
<alkisg>
josefig: you need to download the script for "nat"
18:39
From that web page
18:40
<josefig>
||cw: fat clients
18:40
<||cw>
maybe you applied it manually at one point and haven't rebooted?
18:42
<josefig>
alkisg: this line >> wget https://git.launchpad.net/sch-scripts/plain/debian/sch-scripts.if-up -O /etc/network/if-up.d/sch-scripts
18:42
<alkisg>
Yes, read it for instructions
18:44
<josefig>
yes, i did again but nothing changed
18:44
it's chroot-less image
18:54
<alkisg>
from the clients, can you ping 8.8.8.8?
18:55
<josefig>
mea culpa, i found the problem. It was because of docker a iptables policy on forwarding it said DROP, I just changed to ACCEPT and worked all.
19:00
<alkisg>
meh,who uses docker for ltsp :D
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19:04
<mwalters>
was it docker where the official install isntructions were to pipe curl output into an elevated bash shell?
19:04
<vagrantc>
certainly wouldn't be the only one...
19:04
<mwalters>
lol
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19:06
<alkisg>
In other news, ipv6 works great. No more dhcp required in the initramfs, so it's done normally later on, from /etc/network/interfaces, with dhcp there, not static/manual
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19:09
<vagrantc>
wow
19:09
hope there won't be any gotchas if we make that the default behavior, or easy to change back if needed
19:09
but that sounds really cool
19:09
<alkisg>
And for now, I'm using an nbd copyonwrite overlay with settings and swap and all, so no tftp or http required
19:10
We'll see if http is needed later on
19:10
<vagrantc>
did you resolve the tftp issue?
19:10
oh wow
19:11
so you pass a specific nbd-cow to each client?
19:20
<josefig>
nice =)
19:22
alkisg: no, I use docker in the server only, i removed the service in ltsp clients. I use for software develompment and works great, I am very happy with LTSP to be honest with you
19:27
<alkisg>
vagrantc: nah, lts.conf is there for all clients
19:28
The nice thing is that all of ltsp-client code can be there
19:28
And swap, and /etc/ltsp/per-client directories/overlays
19:29
<vagrantc>
so a swap file on the filesystem?
19:29
<alkisg>
Yes, typical /swapfile that ubuntu uses nowadays
19:29
I guess one can encrypt that, haven't tried
19:30
And the single cow image can be created in a couple of seconds (1 GB sparse file with less than 1 MB actual data)
19:30
So I think I'll put settings in /etc, and copy them to the cow image in a similar way that ltsp-update-kernels updates kernels
19:31
Now on to authentication... I'm between samba and libpam-sshauth...
19:32
<vagrantc>
heh
19:32
<alkisg>
(09:09:37 μμ) vagrantc: hope there won't be any gotchas if we make that the default behavior, or easy to change back if needed ==> those are for the new project, so there won't even be old code to revert to :D
19:45
<||cw>
samba's probably a bit heavy, and ssh can use samba/winbind accounts on the server if the admin wants
19:48
<alkisg>
samba is maintained by others, while we'd have to maintain libpam-sshauth ourselves :D
19:48
Would plain ldap be more light? I think some ltsp users use it anyway...
19:48
<||cw>
but then you have to setup a samba server and maintain the smbpasswd
19:49
<alkisg>
`ltsp-config samba` to simplify the first setup, while I think smbpasswd is automatically maintained if you use normal unix accounts
19:49
And the side effect would be that windows users would be able to login to the linux server...
19:50
<||cw>
it's not. but it can update the unix account if you use smbpasswd command
19:50
<alkisg>
I don't know if setting all that up and maintaining it, would be easier than maintaining libpam-sshauth though...
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19:51
<alkisg>
Hmm, I might remember wrong, but I thought that it injected itself to the pam stack, so that when I did "passwd" or "adduser", it automatically updated smbpasswd
19:51
<||cw>
been a while since I did a standalone, I think i add to do the -a manually at least
19:52
does libpam-sshauth already exist?
19:52
<alkisg>
Yes, an ltsp developer wrote it (sbalneav), but it's never been tested in real use
19:53
<||cw>
hm.
19:53
<alkisg>
So it'll need to be reviewed, at least
19:56
<mwalters>
I have like, 75 users... and I think ldap is overkill ;)
20:00
<alkisg>
(unrelated) The fedora live cd doesn't use overlay for the live/writeable file system, it's using /dev/mapper/live-rw... wth is that :D
20:00
<vagrantc>
it's the way to do it before aufs existed
20:01
uses device-mapper and freinds
20:02
<alkisg>
How come we never used it in ltsp?
20:05
Heh, they're using an ext4 sparse upon a tmpfs, for the writeable part... I wonder why, maybe ext4 is more stable wrt application usage?
20:05
<vagrantc>
because ubuntu used it's own overlay kernel stuff early on
20:06
<alkisg>
Hmm, I thought 8.04 and 10.04 were still using aufs... only later they switched to overlayfs, which eventually gave its place to overlay...
20:06
<vagrantc>
for a long time, Debian used the RW_DIRS/RW_FILES and such
20:06
<alkisg>
Ah right
20:06
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i mean union fs type filesystems in general
20:07
aufs was never in-kernel
20:07
it was always patched in
20:07
or out-of-tree
20:07
<alkisg>
overlay is still missing as a module from initramfs's
20:07
One needs to specifically add it, in order to be available
20:07
Those 2 things are the only ones needed, the overlay module and nbd-client
20:08
<vagrantc>
cool
20:08
<alkisg>
The "ltsp" initramfs scripts can be included with the additional initrd line
20:21
Meh, the default ubuntu initramfs has dmsetup and not overlay :D
20:21
...debian too
20:24
<vagrantc>
dmsetup is useful for a lot of things
20:25
<alkisg>
If it's already there, and stable, and efficient, why not switch to that instead of overlay then...
20:25
<vagrantc>
you couldn't use squashfs as a backend
20:25
you'd have to use a writeable filesystem
20:25
<alkisg>
How does the fedora live cd do it?
20:25
<vagrantc>
you said they use ext4
20:25
<alkisg>
It has a squashfs image
20:25
For the overlay, not for the rofs
20:26
<vagrantc>
hmmm... maybe there are more complicated things going on than i thought
20:26
<alkisg>
squashfs rofs + tmpfs + sparse file on that tmpfs, formatted as ext4
20:26
But I still can't understand the dmsetup magic to do that
20:26
<vagrantc>
i thought they make a virtual block device, which wouldn't work well with differing filesystems ... but clearly that's not the case
20:26
<alkisg>
The squashfs rofs is there on the cd though, so it's definately doable
20:28
<vagrantc>
i do recall fedora folks being envious of the unionfs/aufs/overlay(fs) approach being simpler
20:28
*ages* ago
20:28
may have improved since then
20:29
<alkisg>
Heh. And now overlay is just a modprobe away. Oh well since we do need a modified initramfs anyway, for nbd-client, I guess it's not worth it
20:29
I'd love it if nbd was a bit like aoe. Modprobe and mount, no nbd-client...
20:29
<vagrantc>
aoe has issues you didn't like?
20:30
<alkisg>
It doesn't have any way to avoid flow contol
20:30
So, if someone has even one 100mbps client, it tells the server to transmit at 100 mbps for all clients
20:30
(total, i.e. not gigabit anymore)
20:32
Maybe now with ipv6 and link-local addresses, someone could do the same thing that aoe does, over ipv6
20:32
Only for the local subnet, and with multicasting for advertising the shares, etc
20:37
<vagrantc>
so ipv6 link-local addresses wouldn't work across routers, which i'd had use-cases for in the past
20:38
but that's a pretty sub-optimal setup for a client anyways
20:38
but relying on it would make that basically impossible
20:39
surely might be worth it
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20:40
<vagrantc>
an ltsp sever on multiple networks with multiple interfaces would have a different link-local address for each network
20:43
<alkisg>
Virtualbox manages to send packets to the network for VMs with bridged NICs, even if the host doesn't have an IP
20:44
<vagrantc>
that's not a router, though
20:44
<alkisg>
If we could do that, i.e. setup our own virtual interface, we wouldn't bother with the rest of the networking
20:44
It supports ethernet, ipv4, ipv6, everything
20:44
<vagrantc>
it just depends on existing network topology and all that
20:46
hard-coding network topology without any way to change it will mean it can't be used in some environments
20:46
<alkisg>
About virtualbox? I think it's using https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TUN/TAP
20:46
<vagrantc>
sure
20:46
<alkisg>
It doesn't hardcode anything. I don't know if we could use that ourselves
20:47
<vagrantc>
well, you're talking about only supporting ipv6 link-local addresses
20:47
<alkisg>
I.e. to have an "ltsp-eth0" virtual card, that we could use only for the nbd/aoe connection, over any protocol, while the os wouldn't touch it
20:47
Oh I'm talking about 2 different approaches here
20:47
virtualbox/tun/tap is a completely different approach than ipv6 link local
20:48
But both of them allow the OS to set an ipv4 IP without breaking our nbd connection
20:48
<vagrantc>
right
20:57
<quinox>
(I have 12 users and are really happy with LDAP)
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