IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 6 March 2008   (all times are UTC)

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00:39
<johnny_>
rcy, are you here?
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05:27
<ogra_cmpc>
if anyone sees jwz entering the channel, please ping me
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06:15
<Nubae>
is apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree flash player 9?
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08:31
<rjune_>
ogra_cmpc: why the hell would jwz come in here?
08:32
<ogra_cmpc>
rjune_, because i invited him to do so in my answer mail to: http://jwz.livejournal.com/846523.html
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08:38* laga wonders why that guy is trying to run a.out netscape binaries.
08:40
<laga>
ogra_cmpc: wrt the DNS name server hack: i have already added enough hacks so that it doesn't really matter anymore for me. do you know if /tmp/net-eth0.conf is still available after the real init was started? the name server address could be pulled from there then
08:43
<ogra_cmpc>
i dont thing thats available outside of busybox
08:43
*think
08:43
<laga>
too bad.
08:44
the easiest thing might be copying it to the cow branch then
08:44
<ogra_cmpc>
laga, he runs a.out because he wrote netscape :) might be that in his opinion this is the last usable version :P
08:44
<laga>
ogra_cmpc: ah. ok, that's a valid reason
08:44
(if he wrote netscape, maybe he can just recompile it ;))
08:45
<ogra_cmpc>
heh, well :)
08:45
that would be easier than ranting publically
08:47
<mnemoc>
hi, what's the "upstream" repository of ltsp5? http://people.ubuntu.com/~robertc/pqm/trunk/?
08:48
<ogra_cmpc>
thats the source for package queue manager i think :)
08:48
nothing to do with ltsp
08:48
<mnemoc>
i just noticed :\
08:48
<ogra_cmpc>
how did you get that url in relation to ltsp ?
08:48
<mnemoc>
googling
08:49
<ogra_cmpc>
intresting
08:49
https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/
08:49
<rjune_>
laga: because he's a pain in the ass.
08:49
<ogra_cmpc>
there are the branches
08:49
<mnemoc>
ogra_cmpc: thanks :)
08:49
ogra_cmpc: perfect... i have been two days looking for that :)
08:50
<ogra_cmpc>
heh, asking here is always the quickest way
08:50
<rjune_>
every time I've talked to him, he's been more interested in bitching and throwing a temper tantrum then getting his problem solved.
08:50
<ogra_cmpc>
for everything related to ltsp :)
08:50
<mnemoc>
ogra_cmpc: thanks :)
08:50
<ogra_cmpc>
rjune_, yeah, but he invented browsing, that gives him a big bonus ...
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08:51
<rjune_>
ogra_cmpc: netscape sucks. even the old versions
08:51
<laga>
then he should be able to figure out how to add "-r" to the sysklog args...
08:51
<rjune_>
so, uhm. no.
08:51
<ogra_cmpc>
well, sort of "invented" :)
08:51
rjune_, you dont use firefox ?
08:51
<rjune_>
no I do not.
08:52
<ogra_cmpc>
ah , k ... well
08:52
<rjune_>
and he didn't write firefox.
08:52
<laga>
ogra_cmpc: wasn't the gecko engine mostly rewritten from scratch because th netscape engine wasn't clean enough?
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08:52
<rjune_>
yup
08:52
<ogra_cmpc>
i dont think it was "from scratch"
08:52
<rjune_>
pretty much
08:54
<Xorcom>
anyone knows or have a TR2340 INIt?
08:56
<Q-FUNK>
!g
08:56
<ltspbot`>
Q-FUNK: "g" is Gadi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
08:56
<rjune_>
!g
08:56
<ltspbot`>
rjune_: "g" is Gadi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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09:19
<Gadi>
morning, guys
09:22
<ogra_cmpc>
yo Gadi
09:25
<Gadi>
yo yo
09:25
so, life is ironic
09:26
<ogra_cmpc>
yo ... ghurt
09:26
<Gadi>
had a b-day this week, went out to celebrate last weekend, got food poisoning, been spending my bday week not eating :P
09:26
<ogra_cmpc>
is it ? how so ?
09:26
happy bday then :)
09:26
<Gadi>
thanks - tell my stomach to comply
09:26
:)
09:27
<ogra_cmpc>
heh, get well ..
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09:27
<Gadi>
meanwhile, I keep finding more things to learn
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09:27
<Gadi>
which is good for an old dog
09:27
this SNMP thing can be really fun to play with
09:27
:D
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09:28
<ogra_cmpc>
it can also rip huge security holes in your setup if misconfigured :)
09:29
<Gadi>
yeah - especially if you do read-write stuff
09:29
<ogra_cmpc>
yeah
09:29
<Gadi>
still kinda cool
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09:36
<Blinny>
SNMP is extremely useful as your network grows beyond a server or two.
09:52
<bjorn>
sutula: interesting. looks like your BIOS is definitely different than mine. are you using a plug-in radeon, by chance? my problem is with the built-in radeon
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10:26
<sutula>
bjorn: Nothing plug-in...stock
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11:22
<rjune_>
happy bday Gadi, how old are you?
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11:23
<rjune_>
Gadi: snmp write is a huge security hole problem
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11:36
<bjorn>
sutula: huh. your radeon is at 00:0d.0, mine is at 01:00.0. maybe there are two t5710 versions, and only the one with radeon at 01:00.0 has the problem. any chance you have some of each, and saw the problem on the other variety?
11:38
<sutula>
bjorn: aw (in #lab) confirmed that there are at least two versions with entirely different processors
11:39
<bjorn>
sutula: different processor shouldn't matter, but if they moved the radeon and forgot to update the _PRT, that would do it
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11:40
<sutula>
bjorn: What clock speed do you have?
11:40
<bjorn>
sutula: i have the 1.2GHz version
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11:41
<sutula>
bjorn: Mine are all 800 MHz, though I might have had a borrowed 1.2G during initial testing, so maybe that's why I saw it then
11:42
<bjorn>
sutula: ahh, i like that theory! and my quirk should be harmless for your boxes, since it checks for the 01:00.0 PCI address before changing anything
11:42
<sutula>
bjorn: Anyway, apparently, it doesn't affect all t5710's, only the 1.2G efficeon
11:44
<bjorn>
sutula: you mean the IRQ problem only affects the 1.2GHz version? i didn't remember any data to show that, but good to know
11:47
<sutula>
bjorn: I'm just guessing...entirely different processors (efficeon vs. crusoe), different speeds, probably different (or at least different version) BIOS's
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12:14
<warren>
ogra_cmpc, cool, one of the RH employees is on the IETF DHCP standards group
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12:15
<warren>
ogra_cmpc, we're going to kick off the ratification process to get a NBD DHCP option into the standards
12:15
<cliebow_>
8~)
12:16
<ogra_cmpc>
heh
12:16
cool
12:19
<warren>
ogra_cmpc, we also came up with a cleaner way to handle nbd
12:19
ogra_cmpc, similar to NFS mount syntax
12:20
NFS: mount -t nfs 192.168.0.254:/path/to/root -o ro /somewhere
12:20
NBD: mount -t ext2 192.168.0.254:2000 -o nbd,ro /somewhere
12:20
<ogra_cmpc>
yeah, i already thought about a mount.nbd wrapper
12:20
<warren>
ogra_cmpc, actually, this NBD mount syntax is similar to loop
12:21
<ogra_cmpc>
right
12:21
its all over not much different from loop
12:21
(i actually tend to abuse it for loop mounts since i have the servetr around anyway :) )
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12:23
<warren>
heh
12:23
ogra_cmpc, what package is your /bin/mount coming from? util-linux-ng?
12:23
ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/util-linux-ng/ upstream
12:23
<ogra_cmpc>
mount
12:23
<warren>
oh
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12:23
<ogra_cmpc>
(is thae package name here)
12:24
<warren>
ogra_cmpc, that's the source package?
12:24
<ogra_cmpc>
ah
12:24
util-linux
12:24
no ng there
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12:26
<warren>
ah
12:27
ogra_cmpc, yeah, we moved on from util-linux finally after acknoledging the old upstream was dead long ago
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12:51
<ogra_cmpc>
warren, wow, what makes fedora boot so slow ? http://blog.kagou.fr/post/2008/03/06/Chronos-US-version
12:52
intrestingly the over all time is the same as ubuntu ...
12:52
<warren>
ogra_cmpc, he didn't indicate what he instaled
12:52
<ogra_cmpc>
fedora 8
12:52
with the same desktop additions ubuntu uses
12:52
at least thats what he writes he did for all the distros
12:52
<warren>
ogra_cmpc, I have a few theories
12:53
ogra_cmpc, we didn't try to optimize F8 much at all
12:53
<ogra_cmpc>
"Only Fedora, Mandriva and OpenSuse have been modified to correspond to Ubuntu. This means that Compiz is activated, Tracker and Deskbar applet also."
12:53
<warren>
we don't even use tracker
12:53
ogra_cmpc, btw does Ubuntu prelink?
12:53
<ogra_cmpc>
neither does matter for boottime though
12:53
no, we use readahead
12:54
<warren>
we have readahead, but it is broken
12:54
prelink is different
12:54
it actually modifies all binaries on the system
12:54
<ogra_cmpc>
right, but one excludes the other afaik
12:54
<warren>
No
12:54
You can use both if it is considered correctly (which it is not on fedora)
12:54
he likely tested the speed before prelink had a chance to work
12:55
<ogra_cmpc>
an you (theroetically) have to run it after every package installation
12:55
<warren>
configured correctly*
12:55
<ogra_cmpc>
i'm not sure readahed copes ...
12:55
its very fragile
12:56
anyway, we dont have a optimized profile on by default, i found that not many ubuntu users know about the profile kerneloption to create the proper lists
12:56
so readahead actually only gains us a marginal speedup
12:58
my prob with all these speedup solutions is that they dont really work on the fly
12:58
you always have to generate a list, db or some such
13:00
and in case of readahead i think something like that should rather be done on filesystem level ... then you dont need such workarounds
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13:18
<laga>
ogra_cmpc: oh, readahead has to be configured? i didn't know that
13:19
maybe it'd be helpful if some stuff was documented properly..
13:19
<ogra_cmpc>
laga, boot with: profile
13:19
then reboot
13:19
profile triggers a readahead hook in initramfs that creates the new file lists
13:20
<laga>
it's as easy as that? cool
13:21
<ogra_cmpc>
sadly it doesnt work on stacked filesystems like unionfs or aufs
13:21
<laga>
damn. i was just going to try it :/
13:21
<ogra_cmpc>
and it breaks on nfs as well ...
13:21
so nothing that helps with networked root
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13:23
<laga>
find /usr/share/initramfs-tools/ | xargs grep -i profile returns nothing (on gutsy). is it in the kernel or maybe only in hardy?
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13:51
<johnny>
is there a reason the ltsp site itself is out of date wrt to pointing to upstream devel?
13:52
should i modify it ?
13:53
<ogra_cmpc>
its a wiki :)
13:55
<johnny>
well.. part of the site is :)
13:55
the main page isn't..
13:55
is there a reason?
13:56
<laga>
ogra_cmpc: um, how do you know that readahead wont work well with unionfs? i've just found references to unionfs being broken (which somehow doesn't surprise me)
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16:50
<mnemoc>
are {ldm,ltsp,ltspfs}-trunk branches "stable"?
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16:54
<warren>
mnemoc, depends what you mean by stable
16:54
mnemoc, I keep doing changes to them because they don't work on fedora
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16:58
<mnemoc>
warren: what should i use as start point "upstream" for an integration on another distribution? by "stable" i mean it includes what is supposed to work, and that new commits are done when the change is supposed to work :)
16:58
warren: are your problems "just" related to the .specs file or deeper?
17:00
<johnny>
what distro?
17:01
<mnemoc>
johnny: www.opensde.net ... it's a framework to create and maintain custom distributions from zero
17:02
err
17:02
www.opensde.org
17:02
<johnny>
hmm.. i just do that with gentoo i guess :)
17:03
afaik you should use the those trunk branches atm
17:03
<mnemoc>
i have no problem with that ,-)
17:03
johnny: thanks :)
17:03
<johnny>
i might help dberkholz with gentoo integration if he'll let me
17:04
<Q-FUNK>
johnny: you might wanna talk to leio also for that
17:04
<johnny>
more so as a project to help me learn ltsp
17:04
really?
17:04
aha.. i knew leio
17:04
err know
17:04
well. dinner time in a few.. bbl
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17:36
<dberkholz>
johnny: nobody's stopping you, the nonworking code is in public bzr now =)
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20:32
<jammcq>
hey friends
20:32
<warren>
hey ji
20:32
m
20:33
<jammcq>
hey warre
20:33
n
20:33
<jcastro>
hi jammcq, warren
20:33
hi $others
20:33
<jammcq>
jcastro: hey, went out to brazilian tonight
20:34
<jcastro>
oh man.
20:34
beef, and pork, and chicken
20:34
it was probably awesome
20:34
<jammcq>
I have a couple people from my really big customer in rochester, NY in town today and took them out to a meal they won't soon forget
20:35
<jcastro>
jammcq: went out to lunch the other day with OU people, and sun have been courting them, so they came too, and paid for lunch
20:35
tried to sell them sunrays
20:35
<jammcq>
hmm, free lunch, eh?
20:35
<jcastro>
man
20:35
<jammcq>
dude, did you hear they closed all the La Sheesh's ?
20:35
<jcastro>
we railed them about sunrays vs. ltsp
20:36
I wish I could have taped it for you
20:36
<jammcq>
heh
20:36
<jcastro>
so, lasheesh is closed?
20:36
<jammcq>
yep, gone
20:36
<jcastro>
the whole sponsoring terrorism thing?
20:36
<jammcq>
yeah, I guess so. the tax evasion didn't help either
20:36
<jcastro>
heh
20:36
I love detroit
20:37
jammcq: have you talked to any sun people about sunrays at all in the last year?
20:38
<jammcq>
nope
20:38
not at all
20:38
<jcastro>
hah
20:38
it's awesome
20:38
they have no idea what ltsp can do
20:38
ken explained to them how we have ltsp clients that do all the things they do
20:38
<jammcq>
well, when Fedora starts shipping it in F9, they'll start to get a clue
20:38
<jcastro>
they didn't really believe him
20:39
they really don't grok hat you can do thin clients without sunrays
20:39
it was pretty awesome
20:40
jammcq: so is F9 going to be all ltsp5-able ootb?
20:40
<jammcq>
umm, well, warren is the guy. let's see what he says
20:41
<jcastro>
warren for the win!
20:41
<warren>
jcastro, I have it maybe 85% working on F8. F9 would be identical if it weren't for a new X bug.
20:41
X's security something layer was completely rewritten
20:41
<jcastro>
I really drilled zonker about ltsp at fosdem
20:41
he's the new suse community guy
20:42
<jammcq>
oh, to see if he's able to make anything happen?
20:42
there's a couple of Opensuse guys who have done some really good work with ltsp-5 and kiwi
20:42
<jcastro>
He just started so he isn't aware of the issues
20:42
so I told him to get ahold of you
20:42
<jammcq>
I think they're doing it without any novell resources tho
20:43
<jcastro>
zonker is good people, I'm sure he'll get ahold of you soon jammcq
20:43
<jammcq>
i've known zonker for a long time
20:44
<jcastro>
jammcq: got to meet Tom "Spot" Calloway from fedora as well
20:44
great guy
20:44
<jammcq>
cool
20:44
<jcastro>
also got to see keith's talk on X
20:44
it was an awesome talk
20:45
<jammcq>
keith usually does a pretty decent talk
20:45
<jcastro>
there was a guy there from ATI/AMD as well
20:45
but it was packed
20:45
<jammcq>
he's got the right amount of smuggness to get up there and have fun
20:45
<jcastro>
from what mirco muller told me people just wrang the ati/amd guy through the wringer
20:45
<jammcq>
ati's in a bit of a pickle
20:46
<jcastro>
rightfully so imo.
20:46
<jammcq>
their driver sucks and they can't opensource what they have
20:46
cuz they don't own the IP in it
20:46
so they're developing a new set of opensource drivers, but that takes forever
20:46
<jcastro>
they subcontracted a suse person to do the oss driver
20:46
but it's only one dude
20:46
vs. intel and their 10-ish so people
20:48
jammcq: off to bed, see you tuesday; warren, see you later!
20:48
<jammcq>
ciao
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20:58
<warren>
hmm\
20:58
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=436230
20:58
apparently the way LDM is doing xauth is broken and wrong
20:59
it should be getting the X cookie BEFORE x starts
21:12
<mnemoc>
ow
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22:12
<warren>
ogra_, ogra_cmpc: can we PLEASE fork ldm-trunk to ldm-0.1 now?
22:12
ogra_, ogra_cmpc: starting tomorrow I will have incompatible changes, starting with the broken way it does xauth
22:14
ogra_cmpc, ogra_: it is completely appropriate for the cutting edge changes to go into ldm-trunk
22:14
given "trunk'
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22:33
<johnny>
dberkholz, where?
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22:33
<johnny>
i don't see a gentoo branch in the bzr branches list
22:33
and what about an overlay for the ebuilds?
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