IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 8 April 2017   (all times are UTC)

00:02ABIX_Adamj_ has left IRC (ABIX_Adamj_!~quassel@abix-vps.abix.info.pl, Remote host closed the connection)
00:02ABIX_Adamj has joined IRC (ABIX_Adamj!~quassel@abix-vps.abix.info.pl)
00:13GodFather has joined IRC (GodFather!~rcc@47.33.250.142)
02:12GodFather has left IRC (GodFather!~rcc@47.33.250.142, Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
03:16lucascastro has joined IRC (lucascastro!~lucas@186.193.177.217.jupiter.com.br)
04:17Freejack has left IRC (Freejack!~Freejack@unaffiliated/freejack, Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
04:22Freejack has joined IRC (Freejack!~Freejack@unaffiliated/freejack)
05:07jgee has joined IRC (jgee!~jgee@200.118.140.142)
05:09jgee has left IRC (jgee!~jgee@200.118.140.142, Remote host closed the connection)
05:11jgee has joined IRC (jgee!~jgee@200.118.140.142)
05:19jgee has left IRC (jgee!~jgee@200.118.140.142, Remote host closed the connection)
05:20jgee has joined IRC (jgee!~jgee@200.118.140.142)
05:25jgee has left IRC (jgee!~jgee@200.118.140.142, Remote host closed the connection)
05:26jgee has joined IRC (jgee!~jgee@200.118.140.142)
05:51jgee has left IRC (jgee!~jgee@200.118.140.142, Remote host closed the connection)
05:51jgee has joined IRC (jgee!~jgee@200.118.140.142)
06:28lucascastro has left IRC (lucascastro!~lucas@186.193.177.217.jupiter.com.br, Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
07:12ricotz has joined IRC (ricotz!~ricotz@p5B2A90D8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
07:12ricotz has joined IRC (ricotz!~ricotz@ubuntu/member/ricotz)
08:11Statler has joined IRC (Statler!~Georg@p579FE5D9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
08:35
<quinox>
lol
09:07
not too important anymore, but all barcode scanners I've touched so far are simply HIDs (keyboard)
09:08
which I *really* like
09:09
the only theoretical problem I have with them that they are all configurable through barcodes
09:10
so you usually get a nice manual with the device that allows you to put it into configuration mode with 1 barcode, then change settings with another barcode
09:10
settings like "type" speed, newline/tab/nothing after scanning a barcode etc. etc.
09:10
I wish they had a hardware button to put them into configuration mode
09:12
because right now if you accept random barcodes (which is quite often) someone could mess the device up on purpose
09:15
if you change the post-barcode symbol (newline<-->tab<-->nothing) with this attack it cannot be used anymore by the operator until someone technical drops by to debug and fix it
10:00markus_e92 has left IRC (markus_e92!~markus_e9@62-46-25-25.adsl.highway.telekom.at, Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
10:04markus_e92 has joined IRC (markus_e92!~markus_e9@91-115-155-69.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
10:33rkwesk has joined IRC (rkwesk!4f82758b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.130.117.139)
10:38
<rkwesk>
Νομίζει κανείς ότι αξίζει να πούμε στο φόρουμ ότι 28-04-17 είναι η τελευταία μέρα για τις ενημερώσεις;
10:39
<alkisg>
rkwesk: this is the english channel, type /join #ts.sch.gr to come to the greek channel
10:39
Nah we already mentioned it there
10:40
I wish that apt-get update won't cause an issue though; that it'll just say "no updates available"
10:40
<rkwesk>
as we are here can I ask about who this git from ellak thinks he is to use the term guru in such a negative way?
10:41
<alkisg>
Haha
10:41
We've spoken with him on the phone, I think he actually meant it in a positive way
10:41
<rkwesk>
he must be green with envy
10:43
I know Greek is very much a second language for me but the tone suggested he was upset with the guru
10:44
<alkisg>
Nah, at least that's not what he expressed on the phone
10:44
Anyways, that's for the forum
10:44* alkisg needs to go for a while, bbiab!
10:45
<rkwesk>
Anyway, I would like to use the info you and Yianni gave about the project when writing up the proposal
10:55
On another note, I think it a shame that a gui front end like sch-scripts is complicated to adapt to other desktop environs and other distros
10:58
It is such an elegant solution for the average person who is put in the position of being the admin of an ltsp setup
11:03
Though some power users have said to me that ltsp is not the panacea for all IT setups, it certainly seems to me to be a no-brainer for schools.
11:04
Yet there are so many schools running without it.
11:06
I once had visited a school that was using an app for windows that resembled epoptes - Nettool or something like that
11:06
<alkisg>
rwmarch: sch-scripts isn't compicated to port elsewhere; there's just noone to do so
11:07
If we had licenses for netop or netsupport or nettool etc, we wouldn't have developed epoptes
11:08
<rkwesk>
Either a pirate version is used or an expensive licence are their only options
11:08
<alkisg>
Usually pirate, yes
11:09
<rkwesk>
I wonder what China or Russia are using as they have so much more Linux
11:12
One fellow who works in the nasa-like org in Siberia told me they have several super apps for Linux but for their use only - no upstreaming there!
11:13
They don't even update online. A usb stick is handed to them for updates and is then taken back.
11:14
There have to be so many users and useful experience these countries could contribute.
11:18
Why aren't more schools in (let's say) southern and eastern Europe using ltsp? Has there been a minister in each place with an agreement from Microsoft?
11:20
Is there anyone here listening who can give some insight to this?
11:25
Back to sch-scripts - if it is not complicated to port can we give the job to some up and coming student?
11:38
<alkisg>
(02:25:57 μμ) rkwesk: Back to sch-scripts - if it is not complicated to port can we give the job to some up and coming student? => we need persons that will work on sch-scripts as a steady job and not someone to do something and then leave
11:39
For example, someone ported the greek education repository to fedora, and then he left; it's been unmaintained since then
11:43
<rkwesk>
so the only way forward then is this proposal so a steady crew gets on with htings
11:56
<alkisg>
rkwesk: do you know of anyone that needs sch-scripts in another desktop environment or distro?
11:59
<rkwesk>
No but I just think they don't know what they are missing
12:00
so many teachers stay far away from the commandline
12:03
Do you not think it a great asset to those "others"?
12:40
<alkisg>
I don't really care about multiple desktops or distros, I think everyone should concentrate on the same ones :D
12:40
Especially in the schools case, where resources are limited
12:45
<rkwesk>
This is true for our country but not so for the rest.
12:46
Don't you think Vagrant would be pleased to have a port?
12:49
Part of the upstreaming thing is that your work gets better known. (Think proposal!)
12:49GodFather has joined IRC (GodFather!~rcc@47.33.250.142)
13:01
<alkisg>
I would have to maintain sch-scripts in 2 languages then, add translations infrastructure etc
13:01
More overhead with uncertain benefits
13:02
If there's sponsoring for that, it'll be worth it; but I don't think we'll do it just for "better known work"...
13:02
E.g. epoptes is already known worldwide; that didn't help much with its maintenance
13:03
Pretty much the same for ltsp...
13:13
<rkwesk>
Sure. I certainly wasn't suggesting that you personally take this on. btw, just being able to say to would be sponsors that this project is known and used in so many places makes a big difference to them.
13:14
Never underestimate the pride that Greeks in the diaspora have for that sort of thing.
13:26
Are you saying that ltsp is known world wide? I wonder just how much. Is it naive to think that if school systems only knew of it they would come running?
13:28
One of the biggest frustrations I personally feel, and thhis has been true for years, is how little notice is taken of the existence of Linux world wide.
13:29
<alkisg>
rkwesk: linux use is 1%, while in greek schools it's maybe 20%, and in my region it's 90%
13:29
You can't expect some software to be extremely popular when it only targets linux
13:30
But ltsp and epoptes surely have thousands of users; yet no sponsors
13:30
This is because people usually use open source software because it's free; not because they like the idea and want to sponsor it...
13:31
The key there is for interested parties, like governments or ministries or companies, to have paid developers to work on open source
13:31
<rkwesk>
Sure this is always going to be true with human beings
13:31
<alkisg>
That's not the deal currently with ltsp/epoptes/sch-scripts
13:33
<rkwesk>
I can only think that so much more people becoming aware is the only way to pick up the few more who might actually want to help'
13:33
<alkisg>
No, I don't think that helps
13:33
Only by finding companies or government parties or eu-funded projects etc that have an interest in the project
13:34
E.g. a company that would sell ltsp to schools would make sense. Or some ministry of education.
13:34
Or the computer technology institute, as part of some eu-project
13:36
<rkwesk>
and yet you don't consider that by raising the bar and making so many more people aware would lead to such acts?
13:42
A developer is like a gold nugget. One needs to do a lot of panning to pick up such a nugget
13:42
<alkisg>
No. For example, hundends of teachers ask the ministry to support ubuntu/ltsp, but you-know-how has his own agenta; that's enough for it to stagnate
13:44
Having many people know your product is basically good only if you directly benefit from more users. I.e. if you sell it or put ads in it.
13:44GodFather has left IRC (GodFather!~rcc@47.33.250.142, Read error: No route to host)
13:44GodFather_ has joined IRC (GodFather_!~rcc@47.33.250.142)
13:45
<rkwesk>
That is one way. I am thinking more long term.
13:46
<alkisg>
Well, most ltsp/epoptes/sch-scripts developers are already gone; I don't know of how much it can sustain a long term design
13:46
<rkwesk>
btw the overlap of ministers and would be developers/sponsers is particularly thin. :))
13:48
new blood is usually a good way to go. That's why "young up and coming students"
13:50
Let me pick up on your mentioning that 90% of people in your region use Linux.
13:50
<alkisg>
No; I've tried that too many times. They usually stay long enough for you to teach them things, and then they leave in order to find something that pays
13:50GodFather_ has left IRC (GodFather_!~rcc@47.33.250.142, Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
13:51
<alkisg>
Essentially they only "steal" the time that you would put in the product
13:51
<rkwesk>
I assume your good looks have something to do with that.
13:51
<alkisg>
Haha
13:52
Maybe it's more the part that I'm in charge of the office that supports school computer labs :D
13:53
<rkwesk>
I'm much less appealing in my 70's and yet I have managed to get many people around me using Linux because I was there to install it.
13:53
<alkisg>
OK, but keep in mind that there's an official support infrastructure that schools know and trust; and unfortunately you're not part of that
13:53
<rkwesk>
Microsoft only gets all those others because it is already installed.
13:54
<alkisg>
If you want to convince them to switch to open source, send one guy from the tax office, for audit :P
13:55
They'll immediately panic and you'll see 99% switch to open source
13:55
<rkwesk>
Yes, that might work
13:55
<alkisg>
Personally I don't care much about the open source philosophy
13:55
It would be the same for me if ministries from all over the world cooperated in a closed-source solution for schools
13:56
<rkwesk>
I'm getting that
13:56
<alkisg>
I just don't want to be illegal and use pirated software
13:56
<rkwesk>
That's fine
13:56
We are an odd bunch of all sorts
13:58
responsible teachers and admins wouldn't like it either and would take the Linux road if they knew
13:59
this brings me back to my point about raising awareness
13:59
all sorts would get interested for all sorts of reasons
14:00
<alkisg>
I think that's the same goal as the current greek ministry has; raising awareness
14:00
They send mails and newsletters and organize webinars and everything to attract people to open source
14:00
<rkwesk>
don't you mean raising awareness of their own image?
14:01
<alkisg>
In the mean time, they destroy open source because they don't understand that it's made by developers that need to get paid
14:01
Even if they want to raise their own image too, they still advertise open source as well
14:03
Anyways, I don't think all this chat belongs here in #ltsp
14:04
I don't want to get involved in attracting more users anyway
14:04
<rkwesk>
agreed but there doesn't seem to be much other chatter
14:04
<alkisg>
I'm focused in supporting my schools, and I leave the publicity to Yannis etc
14:07
<rkwesk>
okay, this is me signing off - thank you for your time.
14:08
<alkisg>
Bye rkwesk! Nice talking with you!
14:09
<rkwesk>
it was my pleasure
14:10rkwesk has left IRC (rkwesk!4f82758b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.130.117.139, )
15:55lucascastro has joined IRC (lucascastro!~lucas@189.90.35.14.jupiter.com.br)
15:57lucascastro has left IRC (lucascastro!~lucas@189.90.35.14.jupiter.com.br, Remote host closed the connection)
15:58lucascastro has joined IRC (lucascastro!~lucas@189.90.35.14.jupiter.com.br)
16:02lucascastro has left IRC (lucascastro!~lucas@189.90.35.14.jupiter.com.br, Read error: Connection reset by peer)
17:35vagrantc has joined IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@unaffiliated/vagrantc)
17:59lucascastro has joined IRC (lucascastro!~lucas@189.90.35.14.jupiter.com.br)
18:04lucascastro has left IRC (lucascastro!~lucas@189.90.35.14.jupiter.com.br, Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
22:32ricotz has left IRC (ricotz!~ricotz@ubuntu/member/ricotz, Quit: Leaving)
22:44Statler has left IRC (Statler!~Georg@p579FE5D9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de, Remote host closed the connection)