IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 14 December 2009   (all times are UTC)

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01:25
<alkisg>
ogra, stgraber, would you sponsor an "ltsp-image" package to be included to universe? That would provide /opt/ltsp/images/image-version.img, and also the kernels in tftp? The goal is to provide an "automatically administrated/updated" ltsp image for the most common cases.
01:25
So one would install the ltsp-image and the ltsp-server[-standalone] WITHOUT EVER running ltsp-build-client or ltsp-update-image. Of course users would be notified that ssh host checking is off (in lts.conf SSH_OPTIONS).
01:25
Apart from being able to get updates for the image, it would make it easier for other distros to use Ubuntu chroots.
01:27
And it might also be used in the edubuntu live dvd.
01:28
<Appiah>
why would other dists wanna use ubuntu chroots?
01:28
<alkisg>
Appiah: see the mailing list, e.g. centos doesn't have support for ltsp
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01:30
<Appiah>
is there a specfic thread in the mailing list for this?
01:31
<alkisg>
No no. I mean that there were some cases where ubuntu chroot were used in other distros
01:32
That's not my goal, it's just a side-effect
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01:35
<cyberorg>
alkisg, or you can transfer ssh keys from server over tftp like we do or use ssh-keyscan in the client to get the keys from the server when booting
01:37
<alkisg>
Right - I just don't think that ssh keys offer anything to security in the LTSP case - anyway that's a long talk so I'll just agree to transferring keys over tftp. :)
01:37
<Ryan52>
alkisg: so the full chroot is in a single .deb?
01:38
<alkisg>
Ryan52: that's my idea
01:38
Both the chroot and the kernels
01:38
<Ryan52>
cool idea, but does the conform to gpl?
01:38
or does ubuntu even care about that?
01:38
<alkisg>
Erm, why not?
01:38
<Ryan52>
I mean, how are the sources distributed?
01:38
<cyberorg>
Ryan52, we use distro packages for the chroot image
01:39
<Ryan52>
that's why I'm asking if ubuntu cares..
01:39
<alkisg>
I'll *have* to upload the source script to launchpad for the .deb to be built
01:39
<Ryan52>
I know that this would not be acceptable in Debian.
01:39
yes, the source script.
01:39
<alkisg>
So sure it conforms fine to the gpl
01:39
<Ryan52>
but not the source for the files in the chroot.
01:39
let me give you an example...
01:39
ssh version 1.2.3 is uploaded to ubuntu
01:39
it gets pulled into your chroot and .deb
01:40
so you have a /usr/bin/ssh binary, that was built from the 1.2.3 source.
01:40
the source is still in the ssh source package
01:40
then ssh version 1.2.4 gets uploaded to ubuntu
01:40
and replaces 1.2.3
01:40
but your chroot binary still contains the 1.2.3 binary.
01:40
where's its source?
01:40
<cyberorg>
Ryan52, we release updated img
01:41
<alkisg>
Huh? Ryan52, then Ubuntu shouldn't ever ship initrds
01:41
(or Debian or any other distro)
01:41
<cyberorg>
yes that too ^^ :)
01:42
<Ryan52>
I didn't think of that..
01:42
huh.
01:42
well, it still seems like a problem regardless :P
01:42* Ryan52 runs and hides
01:42
<alkisg>
Heh :)
01:43
I think that old sources can be found in launchpad for all built versions of openssh, though
01:43
<Ryan52>
oh, okay. that's not true of Debian, which is why it may be more of a problem for Debian.
01:43
<alkisg>
So if I'm using plain ubuntu sources, then I think I'm ok
01:43
<cyberorg>
i don't like the idea of building images on binary distributions, sounds same as building packages from source, why make all users waste resources multiple times when it can be done once
01:44
<alkisg>
cyberorg: waster resources?
01:44
*waste
01:44
What do you mean?
01:44
Ah, you're in favor of shiping ltsp images as binary blobs?
01:44
<cyberorg>
running lts-build-client is almost making everyone run ./configure && make && make install :)
01:45
alkisg, of course i am, i do that from the first day :)
01:45
<alkisg>
Right, but it gives more costumization power, and in many cases that is indeed needed
01:45
<johnny>
cyberorg, is right tho
01:45
<Appiah>
wouldnt be a problem if it's a seperate package
01:45
<johnny>
we can do better
01:45
<alkisg>
E.g. if someone has nvidia server & clients, then he'd better use the proprietary drivers :)
01:45
<Appiah>
so people who dont want those images can simply not apt-get em
01:45
<cyberorg>
alkisg, very few users actually requires customizations
01:46
<johnny>
installing directly from an image is smart
01:46
like an ltsp client spin for fedora
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01:46
<alkisg>
cyberorg: sure, I agree, I'm targeting e.g. 95% of Greek schools that use LTSP
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01:46
<Appiah>
no localapps?
01:46
<johnny>
alkisg, the point is.. you should be able to just drop a fully setup install
01:46
<cyberorg>
go for it, you can always put packages in ppa :)
01:46
<johnny>
in place
01:46
instead of having it build the environment for you evertime
01:46
<alkisg>
Appiah: sure, I'll even include an mplayer there for youtube (no flash though)
01:47
<cyberorg>
Appiah, we put firefox and icewm as localapp, firefox uses all plugins installed on the server automatically(sshfs magic)
01:47
<alkisg>
I won't put firefox as a localapp, just mplayer
01:47
<Appiah>
but I mean
01:47
<cyberorg>
for more localapp, admin will have to rebuild image
01:47
<johnny>
of course.. you should be able to install packages post setup..
01:47
<Appiah>
in this already built image
01:47
would there be localapps?
01:47
<johnny>
Appiah, no.. but you can drop in and install them the same as you do now
01:48
<Appiah>
right
01:48
<johnny>
of coursre.. what should happen.. is we should have our own thing that does packagekit
01:48
<alkisg>
Appiah: Yes, but just mplayer for videos + youtube.
01:48
<johnny>
but pointing at the root of the chroot
01:48
since package kit works for every distro
01:48
or.. rather.. every distro we currently support..
01:49
<alkisg>
Appiah: firefox isn't really a problem if youtube uses mplayer
01:49
<Appiah>
alkisg ye...
01:49
...?
01:49
:)
01:50
<alkisg>
So if anyone wants to broadcast video, he'll be able to use the local mplayer. And if he wants it in youtube as well, he can put the greasemonkey script with a small "localapps" in front :)
01:52
cyberorg: if it's going to be accepted to universe, I'll try to go a good job, where everything gets build automatically. If not, I'll just make the binary blob manually and upload it to my PPA - that's why I was asking ogra and stgraber
01:52
<cyberorg>
we can also use sshfs to mount /usr/local from server, that way the .img does not require any modification, users just install stuff they require in the client in /usr/local
01:53
<alkisg>
I don't think that would work when the server is amd64 and the client is i386
01:54
(which I imagine will be a common case...)
01:54
<Appiah>
yupp
01:55
/usr/ltsp-arch/ ? :)
01:56
<alkisg>
Nah, if someone needs to install many localapps for the clients, he'd better use the standard ltsp. That ltsp-image package would be for the simple users :)
01:56
<cyberorg>
will work fine for 32bit servers, 64 is no longer required for > 4G ram anyway, alternatives like VM can be used if the server is 64bit
01:57
<alkisg>
Also, how would /usr/local help in running gimp locally? Gimp is in /usr/bin...
01:58
(and it needs a lot of libraries etc from different paths...)
01:59
<cyberorg>
alkisg, i once started work on very thin fat client, that mounted all important places from the server, the image size was still just about 150M
01:59
<Appiah>
" will work fine for 32bit servers, 64 is no longer required for > 4G ram anyway," what?
01:59
<alkisg>
Appiah: PAE
01:59
<Appiah>
oh
02:00
PAE been around for long
02:00
or am I missing something?
02:00
<alkisg>
cyberorg: I once made clients boot from nfs from the server itself, with no chroot at all :)
02:00
Only some files like /etc/hostname etc needed bind-mounting, but that wasn't hard...
02:01
<johnny>
hmm.. don't you think with upstart you could script it to run on the server?
02:01
<alkisg>
An 00-initscript did everything, pretty simple
02:01
<cyberorg>
way to go :)
02:01
<johnny>
seems like a better way..
02:01
<alkisg>
But that isn't LTSP at all, it's fat clients - that should be a different project
02:02* alkisg isn't using LTSP for new, powerful labs...
02:02
<johnny>
no.. i mean actually doing the right thing with the init scripts and all
02:02
to setup ldm
02:02
i think ltsp could do a bit better in not overriding so much of the system
02:02
<alkisg>
johnny: sure, I do think that too.
02:02
<johnny>
doing manual pulse configs and whatnot.. so we can't use the pulse init script
02:02
<alkisg>
I also don't think that we need a custom kernel in ubuntu
02:02
We can boot ltsp with the stock one
02:03
<johnny>
of course.. it's a bit harder to do it if the arch is different :(
02:13
<tarzeau>
any tips for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/485709 ?
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03:48
<Roel___>
Hi guys
03:49
I'm having a client that says : /etc/hostname not writable
03:53
<johnny>
Roel___, .. if it's gentoo.. i'll have to help you later.. i have to go to bed, it's 5am
03:53
will be back in 7 hours
03:54
<dmarkey_>
wow thats late
03:56
<alkisg>
There's a bug with the same message here (over nfs): https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/485709
03:56
<Roel___>
lol :)
03:56
thx
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04:13
<Roel___>
Can anyone explain me how the boot process for gentoo ltsp work?
04:14
It seems to be booting a different kernel on the thinclient
04:14
maybe only after the switchroot?
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05:26
<Roel___>
Can anyone explain me why the ltsp docs moved... and why 80 % is gone?
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05:36
<alkisg1>
Roel___: the ltsp.org server was broken, so they're slowly moving them to sourceforge.
05:37
<Roel___>
:s can't find any cache of it
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05:40
<alkisg1>
What are you looking for?
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05:41
<alkisg1>
(that's not in the docs, I mean)
05:41
!docs
05:41
<ltspbot>
alkisg1: "docs" :: For the most current documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
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05:47
<Roel___>
thanks
05:47
that does help me :)
05:48
!gentoo-developers :p
05:48
<ltspbot>
Roel___: Error: "gentoo-developers" is not a valid command.
05:52
<alkisg>
!gentoo
05:52
<ltspbot>
alkisg: Error: "gentoo" is not a valid command.
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07:39
<Roel__>
any ltsp developer for gentoo already woke up?
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07:52
<_USUrPeR_>
hey all
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07:53
<_USUrPeR_>
I'm trying to figure out how to shut of xinerama on a DLW 1520 (atom) in order to use "dual port" output instead.
07:53
anybody have any ideas?
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07:54
<alkisg>
_USUrPeR_: good question... but I think it's missing something
07:54
I think it's missing "Gadi:" in front of it :D
07:55
<_USUrPeR_>
lulz
07:55
let me rephrase:
07:56
I would like to have two full-screen applications set up. One - an rdesktop session to a windows server, the other, an nx session to a linux server. Both run from a single thinclient.
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07:58
<_USUrPeR_>
I would like to do this all by bypassing the ldm.
08:01
<Appiah>
cant you put that in lts.conf?
08:02
SCREEN_XX=""
08:02
<_USUrPeR_>
Appiah: sort of. That would apply to both screens, and I need the screens to be independent.
08:03
<Appiah>
umm
08:03
<_USUrPeR_>
Appiah: screen_7 = rdesktop works
08:03
<Appiah>
if you put on on screen7 and another on screen8 how is that not idependent?
08:03
(example)
08:03
<_USUrPeR_>
but I need to have two separate full screens instead of a xinerama single screen.
08:04
xinerama, after all, creates a full desktop from two screens. I want to shut off xinerama in order to have two independent screens
08:05
<Appiah>
I never used SCREEN= for seperate sessions but I thought you had to switch by alt +ctrl + #
08:05
<alkisg>
Don't you need 2 x servers for that?
08:05
<Appiah>
I thought that was what it did
08:05
<alkisg>
At least that's how nvidia does it...
08:05
<_USUrPeR_>
alkisg: yeah, that's how nvidia does it
08:05
and if that's the case, no problem
08:05
<Appiah>
unless you run twinview
08:05
:)
08:05
<alkisg>
So you'd need some custom xorg.conf
08:06
twinview doesn't display 2 different screens though
08:06
<Appiah>
like alkisg said , customise xorg.conf
08:06
hmm
08:06
<_USUrPeR_>
yeah, the xorg.conf seems like the best way...
08:06
<alkisg>
But I have no idea what would be *inside* that xorg.conf. Like I said, the questions misses a "Gadi:" if front of it :)
08:06
<Appiah>
but I think I saw someone doing this here on IRC or on the mailing list
08:06
<alkisg>
(maybe lts.conf is capable of producing such a xorg.conf with regular lts.conf options)
08:07
<Appiah>
yes you can put x configurations in lts.conf
08:07
but maybe not all x configs?
08:07
<_USUrPeR_>
hmm.
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08:49
<_USUrPeR_>
!seen gadi
08:49
<ltspbot>
_USUrPeR_: gadi was last seen in #ltsp 4 days, 21 hours, 45 minutes, and 16 seconds ago: <Gadi> that pops up another terminal window that is local to the client
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08:56
<Roel__>
What should I do when my client displays Connection refused 9571... what service hasn't started then?
08:57
<_USUrPeR_>
Roel__: does it show that when you attempt to log in after boot?
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08:57
<Roel__>
no, when trying to start X
08:58
no login screen showed
08:58
<_USUrPeR_>
hmm. so it doesn't get to ldm
08:58
<Roel__>
netstat -ant shows it's not listening for this port
08:58
so I assumed there's another service to be started
08:59
<_USUrPeR_>
what are you running?
08:59
(OS)
08:59
<Roel__>
gentoo
08:59
<_USUrPeR_>
oh
08:59
...
08:59
<Roel__>
what services do other distro's depend on?
08:59
<_USUrPeR_>
tftp, dhcp...
08:59
<Roel__>
I know gentoo is a lot different... but maybe it's just a simple service I didn't start and didn't add on rc-update
08:59
<_USUrPeR_>
uhmmm.... firewall is off? :)
09:00
<Roel__>
tftp OK, dhcp > dnsmaq OK
09:00
yes firewall is off :)
09:00
<_USUrPeR_>
heh
09:01
Roel__: I have no idea what would cause that. I have never used gentoo before.
09:02
<Roel__>
It seems there are only 2 persons knowing about gentoo : Knipwim and johnny
09:02
is LDM a service in your distro?
09:03
<_USUrPeR_>
naw, it's just the login screen
09:03
<Roel__>
shit
09:03
so how does it start through xdm?
09:04
<_USUrPeR_>
:x
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09:25
<sbalneav>
morning all
09:26
<Roel__>
gaftn
09:29
<_USUrPeR_>
X_CONF = "<place_whre_xorg.conf_would_go>" used to work, right? Anybody know if the lts.conf setting changed for that?
09:31
<sbalneav>
That should work.
09:31
<_USUrPeR_>
sbalneav: is CONFIGURE_X = True supposed to be in there still?
09:32
<sbalneav>
That's a good one. I'd say no.
09:33
I specifically go out of my way to buy thin clients that autoconfigure properly, so I haven't had to touch display settings for a long, long time.
09:33
A lot of those buffers have been flushed by now :(
09:33
<_USUrPeR_>
sbalneav: yeah. This is a special circumstance
09:34
sbalneav: I'm trying to separate a dual screen output into two screens (I.E. no xinerama/twinview etx...) in order to have fullscreen output of both NX and rdesktop on the same client
09:38
<sbalneav>
<shudder>
09:48
<alkisg>
_USUrPeR_: CONFIGURE_X is only needed on hardy. Also, remember to put the new xorg.conf to the chroot before using X_CONF.
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09:53
<_USUrPeR_>
alkisg: yeah, got it.
09:53
I am rebuilding in a different place.
09:53
err rebuilding the ltsp image with the xorg.conf in a different place
10:04
<Roel__>
Gentoo LTSP people online here?
10:06
<stgraber>
alkisg: just wondering, were you aware that Edubuntu DVD will contain a LTSP image out of the box starting with Lucid ?
10:06
alkisg: and that you'll get a working LTSP server from the Live DVD already without having to build the image
10:06
<alkisg>
stgraber: nope, I thought that you & highvoltage wanted sbalneav to deal with it, and sbalneav didn't want to deal with it :D
10:07
stgraber: so who's gonna do it?
10:07
<_USUrPeR_>
ok, here's the output I am getting on my client: http://pastebin.com/m548b15d8
10:07
also, my lts.conf and xorg.conf
10:07
it looks like X_CONF = no longer works :/
10:20
<sbalneav>
stgraber: are you saying that this has been DONE, or that this has been identified as a target?
10:22
Personally, I see it as generating an awful lot of work, using up an awful lot of space that could be more legitimately used for langpacks or education software, and providing absolutely 0 value.
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10:23
<Roel__>
If my gentoo says connection refused (5741 or something like it) ... anyone know what to to?
10:23
<alkisg>
sbalneav: people do want to try if their hardware is capable of running under linux/ltsp
10:23
<jhutchins_lt>
Roel__: Not a clue, no idea what you're trying to do.
10:24
<Roel__>
start X
10:24
I think it says that when LDM start
10:24
<sbalneav>
alkisg: so, boot the live cd on the box.
10:24
<Roel__>
though not sure
10:24
<alkisg>
sbalneav: with 64 RAM?
10:24
<sbalneav>
Or, test it with a laptop in that case.
10:25
We're using up megabytes of precious space that could be filled with things that ADD VALUE.
10:25
<jhutchins_lt>
Roel__: Ok, I think we can assume that you're running ltsp from a Gentoo server, and are trying to get a network boot, but are getting that message. What happens _before_ that message?
10:26
<alkisg>
sbalneav: Most schools here don't have sysadmins nor laptops. And until the DVD is filled up I personally don't care much about the extra space :)
10:26
<Roel__>
eeuh.. It boots the complete stuff up to a console login. When I ctrl+alt+F7 I can see that a connection is refused
10:26
<sbalneav>
Plus, you've got the whole issue of how a static DVD is going to somehow dynamically launch a dhcp server of some kind without completely hosing your network.
10:26
<alkisg>
proxydhcp
10:27
It doesn't mess with anything...
10:27
And it just requires a single file in /etc/dnsmas.q
10:27
<_USUrPeR_>
ok, so say "X_CONF =" is no longer used in 9.10. Is there any documentation for lts.conf options anymore?
10:28
<alkisg>
_USUrPeR_: why? I think X_CONF *is* used in 9.10
10:28
<sbalneav>
I can see I'm arguing to myself on this one, so like I say; Free Software is all about scratching your own itches. This isn't my itch. The people who want this feature need to make it happen :)
10:29
<alkisg>
sbalneav: sure, noone objects to that. I wonder why stgraber says it's being done, though...
10:30
<Roel__>
jhutchins_lt: I ques youy have no idea :)
10:30
<sbalneav>
Dunno. If he's DONE it already, great. If it's being handed down to us as a requirement from "on high"... :)
10:30
Roel__: which, the ssh connection?
10:30
<Roel__>
it doens't really say
10:30
<alkisg>
sbalneav: Well I wouldn't mind doing it, an ltsp-image package (which would be the most work) is needed by a lot of teachers
10:31
<jhutchins_lt>
sbalneav: Sounds like it might be the X connection, high port number.
10:31
Roel__: If you have a functional console then the basic system is working.
10:31
<sbalneav>
ah. Maybe there's a firewall setup on the chroot, or X is being started -notcp
10:31
<Roel__>
it's functional
10:31
I can quite do anything I like there
10:32
<sbalneav>
is X running?
10:32
<jhutchins_lt>
Roel__: So clearly the issue is with remote X.
10:33
<Roel__>
I guess it's running, let me check for a moment
10:33
<sbalneav>
alkisg: The other problem you're going to run into is, I suspect, the shipping of "a binary blob". We'd probably need a ruling on what's involved with shipping a i386.img file as just a single blorp.
10:34
<alkisg>
sbalneav: I asked in #launchpad about uploading such a blob on my ppa, and they said it would be OK
10:34
<sbalneav>
Well THEY don't care.
10:34
I'm talking Gnu GPL wise
10:35
<Roel__>
as there is a graphical login screen on the server... I guess it's running
10:35
<alkisg>
sbalneav: So I imagine if I did it more properly and created a script that would create the blob *on* launchpad, there wouldn't be a problem...
10:35
sbalneav: Ryan52 said the same thing this morning... how are initrds different?
10:35
<sbalneav>
plus, in the end, they're going to need to do an ltsp-build client ANYWAY if they want to update things.
10:36
unless we're going to get into updating a "standard" chroot, and rebuilding the blob package on a regular basis for them.
10:36
<alkisg>
Sure, no problem there.
10:36
<sbalneav>
alkisg: I have no idea if they ARE different. There may be no problem with it at all, but someone should CHECK anyway.
10:37
<jhutchins_lt>
sbalneav: From what I've seen the GNU people don't object to binary blobs per se, it's binary blobs where the source is not available.
10:37
<sbalneav>
Last thing we want is to have the whole world just start installing blob packages because it's "easier", then have stallman come in and say "boo"
10:38
<jhutchins_lt>
sbalneav: As long as you've got source available for whatever you did to create the blob it's fine, source doesn't have to be included, just available.
10:38
<sbalneav>
jhutchins_lt: there's lots of shades of grey on that one. What I'm saying is, someone should do due dilligence and check.
10:38
<alkisg>
If the blob is built on launchpad, the source is there.
10:39
<jhutchins_lt>
sbalneav: Otherwise we'd all be running gentoo.
10:39Blinny has left #ltsp
10:39
<sbalneav>
I'm not disagreeing. I can't see a problem with it either.
10:40
but LTSP USED to ship redhat stuff, and the source code was available..
10:40
and we couldn't be included in distros because, even though the source was AVAILABLE, it wasn't available from US specifically
10:41* Roel__ still loking for the light in Gentoo
10:42
<sbalneav>
One of the whole reasons ltsp 4.2 was created was to get away from shipping blobs, since distros wouldn't touch 'em with a 10 foot pole.
10:42
Roel__: You'll just have to wait until people who are doing the gentoo port show up.
10:42
Patience. Virtue. Etc.
10:43
<Roel__>
I have patience, but my boss doesn't :s
10:43
<alkisg>
Your boss requires ltsp on gentoo?!! :O
10:45
<Roel__>
no I had the system working on ltsp 4.2
10:45
Then as my needs got bigger , I convinced him to let me shut down the system to install ltsp 5
10:46
now, I'm blocked and I can't do anything
10:46
I can't find the problem
10:46
I don't axactly understand the way ltsp 5 works and the documentation doesn't seem to apply to gentoo
10:52
and yes you can say I'm stupid :)
10:53
Gentoo is getting very close <-- means : not yet done
10:53
<sbalneav>
That's usually what "getting close" means :)
10:54
I'm not sure how gentoo's doing their port, but I *THINK* the majority of the theory of operation section should apply.
10:56Roel_ has joined #ltsp
10:59Roel__ has quit IRC
10:59
<Roel_>
well... anyways, I've spoke to knipwim friday, and he is already using ltsp 5 on gentoo... he said there were some things still to be done manually, but it should work in the end. So I asked what and he named a couple of things which I did. But I'm starting to expect there were a lot more things to be done :)
11:25
<_USUrPeR_>
does anybody know why etherboot is not working properly for 9.10?
11:26
<alkisg>
_USUrPeR_: no, but there's a bug filed for that.
11:26
<sbalneav>
which, against mknbi?
11:26
<alkisg>
No, against ltsp
11:27
<johnny>
Roel_, it's xinetd
11:27* alkisg looks for the bug #...
11:27
<Roel_>
johnny: what should I do?
11:28
<johnny>
you should have some ldm related file in /etc/xinet.d on the server
11:28
start it
11:29
<sbalneav>
https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/487826
11:29
<Roel_>
permission denied
11:29
<sbalneav>
Yeah, this is probably a mknbi bug
11:29
<Roel_>
chmod it ?
11:29
<johnny>
as root..
11:29
<Roel_>
I'm root, so I guess it has no execution permissions
11:29
<johnny>
what are you starting?
11:30
/etc/init.d/xinetd start
11:30
<alkisg>
_USUrPeR_, sbalneav: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/487826
11:30knipwim_ is now known as knipwim
11:30
<Roel_>
/etc/xinetd.d/ldminfod: line 3: service: command not found
11:30
and so on
11:30
<sbalneav>
That should properly be reassigned to the mknbi package.
11:31alexqwesa has quit IRC
11:32
<sbalneav>
Sigh, I can never figure out how to re-assign a bug to a different package.
11:32
<alkisg>
sbalneav: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/487826/+editstatus
11:33
<johnny>
don't try starting it manually.. you have to start xinetd..
11:33
<alkisg>
sbalneav: package [ltsp] => choose
11:33
<sbalneav>
ok, I've re-assigned it to the mknbi package.
11:33
<johnny>
oh.. forgot.. you have to open it up and enable it too
11:33
<alkisg>
sbalneav: but it may be better to keep ltsp in "affects" so that we remember it and send duplicates there
11:33
<sbalneav>
_USUrPeR_: I've re-assigned that package to mknbi, which is how kernels get tagged for etherboot.
11:33
<johnny>
as the xinetd files are often disabled by defalt too
11:34
<sbalneav>
k, I'll add an effects
11:34
<Roel_>
I've set disable = no
11:34
and still does exactly the same thing
11:35
<sbalneav>
alkisg: There, now it's both.
11:35
<alkisg>
sbalneav: uhm, maybe that should be ltsp(ubuntu), not LTSP (upstream) :D
11:36* alkisg hates beurocracy... can't even spell it right :)
11:36vagrantc has joined #ltsp
11:37
<johnny>
how are you starting it??/
11:37
/etc/init.d/xinetd start must be used
11:41
<Roel_>
yes I did
11:42
now connection refused is gone
11:42
and messages had this message :
11:42
Dec 14 17:41:49 prudence xinetd[4956]: FAIL: ldminfod address from=192.168.123.1
11:42
Dec 14 17:41:49 prudence xinetd[4921]: EXIT: ldminfod status=0 pid=4956 duration=0(sec)
11:43
<sbalneav>
Hmmm, can't see where I specify ltsp ubuntu vs ltsp upstream
11:43
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: in what context?
11:43
<sbalneav>
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/487826
11:44
There's a mknbi bug
11:44
i've re-assigned it to mknbi, but we want to keep an "effects" ltsp
11:44
apparently, I've got it affecting lstp upstream, when really it should affect ltsp (ubuntu)
11:47vagrantc has quit IRC
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11:47
<GuilhermeCunha>
hi
11:47
<sbalneav>
Hello
11:48
<GuilhermeCunha>
i need to mount the pendrive in the client of ltsp
11:48
and not have success
11:48
i'm is using the option 'LOCAL_STORAGE = Y' in lts.conf
11:48
and
11:48
loading the module ohci-usb
11:48
<sbalneav>
ok, what version of LTSP are you using on what kind of server?
11:49
<GuilhermeCunha>
i'm using the ubuntu 8.04 + ltsp-server-standalong
11:49
standalone
11:49
ltsp 5.0
11:49
:D
11:49vagrantc has joined #ltsp
11:49
<GuilhermeCunha>
the lts.conf is in /var/lib/tftpboot/ ...
11:50
<sbalneav>
GuilhermeCunha: Are your users in the fuse group?
11:50
<alkisg>
sbalneav: it's on "also affects distribution" => nm I'll do it
11:50
<sbalneav>
alkisg: ahhh, I did also affects project
11:50
ok, thanks
11:50
<GuilhermeCunha>
sbalneav, not verifiead
11:50
verified ...
11:50
<sbalneav>
So, verify it :)
11:51
They need to be in the fuse group
11:51
<GuilhermeCunha>
how to add this users in fuse group w
11:51
?
11:51
<sbalneav>
The usual way one adds users to groups
11:51
<GuilhermeCunha>
in /etc/group ?
11:51
ok
11:51
<alkisg>
sbalneav: I can't remove upstream ltsp without marking it as invalid, do you have such an option (as the one that put it there?)
11:51
<sbalneav>
either edit /etc/groups, or use the gui
11:52
alkisg: lemme see...
11:53
I can't seem to either.
11:53
Meh, leave it.
11:53
Good to know for us anyway
11:54
Since it does "affect" us here in upstream, since we'll answer questions on it :)
11:54alexqwesa has joined #ltsp
11:55
<alkisg>
Sure... but warren complained about being botherd about "Ubuntu specific bugs" before :) Heh, sure, leave it.
11:55
<sbalneav>
Then warren can remove it. :)
11:55
<alkisg>
Heh ;)
11:55
<sbalneav>
Itches, remember? :)
11:56
<alkisg>
Right... so /me goes to scratch his own itch about using samba accounts instead of ldap :D
11:56
<sbalneav>
I have a feeling I probably did something wrong, if warren complains, I'll mea culpa :)
11:56
alkisg: samba? or AD?
11:56
<alkisg>
Nah... it's a launchpad fault
11:56
sbalneav: no, plain samba
11:56
<sbalneav>
there a pam_samba module?
11:57
<alkisg>
Looking to use 3-in-1 servers, for 3 types of labs: with ltsp, linux, and windows clients
11:57
There's winbind that has a pam module
11:58
If I can (also) put that in the live dvd I want to make, I'll also give it to teachers with windows-only labs :D
11:58
(it's much easier to ship a preconfigured samba server than configure a windows server from scratch)
12:00
<sbalneav>
Yup, text files are much easier to deal with and pre-seed.
12:01
<johnny>
alkisg, is /var/run/ldm-logout-action supposed to preexist ?
12:01
<alkisg>
johnny: no
12:01
<_USUrPeR_>
alkisg: thanks! :D Just saw the etherboot addition to launchpad
12:02
<johnny>
but pehraps for debian/gentoo it should..
12:02
<alkisg>
Well, sbalneav is the one to blame :)
12:02
<johnny>
since we use tmpfs overlays unlike ubuntu
12:02
<alkisg>
johnny: urm, so you bind-mount specific files, not dirs?
12:02
<johnny>
we do both
12:03
<alkisg>
And what about /var/run?
12:03
<johnny>
i hate launchpad..
12:03
:(
12:03
stupid emails .. have to restrict based on the header
12:03
<alkisg>
Isn't the whole /var/run/ dir on tmpfs?
12:03
<johnny>
thought it should be.. then
12:03alexqwesa has quit IRC
12:04
<johnny>
ah yes it is
12:04
<alkisg>
I guess many apps wouldn't run if it wasn't...
12:07
<vagrantc>
/var/run is fine.
12:07
<johnny>
is that feature in any released version of ldm?
12:08
for ldm-logout-action that is?
12:08
roel_%irc.freenode.net: It just says somthing about /var/run/ldm-logout-action : no such file or directory... and then tries again
12:08
sounds like it shouldn't be fatal.. just wondered it there was a bug
12:09
<vagrantc>
johnny: i think pieces of ldm-logout-action are released
12:09
<johnny>
did i miss a file in packaging?
12:10
atm it just basically does ./configure && make && make install
12:10
not much else for ldm
12:10
yep.. this is all i do for install as well
12:11
src_install() {
12:11
emake DESTDIR="${D}" install
12:11
dosym ltsp /usr/share/ldm/themes/default
12:11
}
12:12hersonls has joined #ltsp
12:13
<alkisg>
johnny: right, I put a `case "$(cat /var/run/ldm-logout-action)" in` which should either have a [ -e ] or a 2>/dev/null in it. Sorry for the warning, but it can be safely ignored.
12:13
<johnny>
ah.. that would explain it
12:13
what's the command to start ldm manually?
12:13
i forget it..
12:13
is it like ldm vt7 :7 ?
12:14
<alkisg>
johnny: but I guess that would only happen if one has a new ltsp package, and an OLD ldm package
12:14
Because otherwise the /var/run/ldm-logout-action file would always be created, even if empty
12:14
<johnny>
created when?
12:14
<alkisg>
In /usr/share/ldm/rc.d/X99-zzz-logout-action
12:14
<johnny>
on boot? or on install?
12:14
ah
12:14
<alkisg>
xprop -root -notype LDM_LOGOUT_ACTION | sed -ne 's/^LDM_LOGOUT_ACTION = "\(.*\)"/\1/p' > /var/run/ldm-logout-action || true
12:14
<johnny>
ok.. so on boot
12:15
<alkisg>
Right, on every logoff.
12:15dtrask has joined #ltsp
12:16
<alkisg>
johnny: so if you get release #1224 of ldm, you shouldn't be seeing this warning.
12:16
<dtrask>
sbalneav: you here?
12:16
ping sbalneav
12:18
<alkisg>
Hmmm on second thought the file gets created on logoff... so before that, on the first time, the warning would show. I wonder why I didn't see it. Sorry!
12:18dtrask has left #ltsp
12:19
<vagrantc>
stgraber: so, are you planning on deprecating your logout mechanism in favor of alkisg's ?
12:19
stgraber: or are there use cases for both?
12:20spectra has joined #ltsp
12:20
<johnny>
knipwim, are you about?
12:20
<knipwim>
kinda
12:21
just making a versioned ldm ebuild
12:21
and hoping to solve roel's pproblem
12:21
and then bakc to work
12:22
how so?
12:22
<johnny>
how so?
12:23alexqwesa has joined #ltsp
12:23
<knipwim>
< johnny> knipwim, are you about?
12:25
<GuilhermeCunha>
sbalneav, running
12:25
:D
12:25Egyptian[Home] has quit IRC
12:25
<GuilhermeCunha>
works the pendrive
12:25
:D
12:25
thanks!!!!
12:25Egyptian[Home] has joined #ltsp
12:26
<GuilhermeCunha>
pendrive run in mode 'read-only'
12:26alexqwesa has quit IRC
12:26alexqwesa has joined #ltsp
12:26
<Roel_>
sorry
12:29
installing ldmù revision 1224
12:33
<knipwim>
Roel_: making an ebuild for revision 1216
12:34
after that one, the unstable glib and gtk+ are needed
12:34
<Roel_>
do i need to rebuild the client without ~x86?
12:35
<knipwim>
no
12:36
<Roel_>
so what do I do then?
12:36
<knipwim>
when the ebuild is in git, you need to reinstall ldm-2.0.50 on the client
12:37
<Roel_>
emerge -av =ldm-2.0.50 ?
12:37
<knipwim>
yup
12:37
<Roel_>
great
12:37
<knipwim>
it's not there yest
12:37
in a few minutes i hope
12:37
<Roel_>
how do I resync the overlay?
12:38
<knipwim>
layman -s ltsp ?
12:38
man layman
12:38
<Roel_>
:) I'm not a very advanced user
12:38
but learning every day
12:41Roel__ has joined #ltsp
12:42maginot_ has quit IRC
12:42
<Roel__>
I'm back ... stupid portuguese providers ***
12:42maginot_ has joined #ltsp
12:57Roel_ has quit IRC
13:01Gadi has joined #ltsp
13:03lucascoala_ has joined #ltsp
13:13lucascoala_ has quit IRC
13:20* vagrantc fumbles around trying to summarize the changes to ldm from 2.0.48 to 2.0.52
13:32maginot_ has quit IRC
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13:33scottmaccal has quit IRC
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14:08maginot_ has quit IRC
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14:29
<_USUrPeR_>
has anybody used fl_teachertool in ubuntu?
14:29
even better: has anybody gotten italc working in 9.10?
14:33
<sbalneav>
I keep seeing people having trouble with iTalc, does it not work at all? Or just some parts of it?
14:33
<_USUrPeR_>
sbalneav: there is not a shred of useful docs
14:33
sbalneav: I got it working in 9.04, but that was after much tribulation
14:35
<sbalneav>
There an iTalc channel, or do we end up being the unofficial iTalc channel.
14:36
<_USUrPeR_>
the latter :P
14:36
<Appiah>
:)
14:36
<sbalneav>
the same way we end up being the unofficial "everything that might possibly run under LTSP" channel :)
14:36
hm
14:37
<vagrantc>
heh
14:39alkisg has quit IRC
14:39
<sbalneav>
"Can someone help me with my video card? I know this guy who's married to the second cousin of a sysadmin who once set up LTSP 5 years ago!" :)
14:40GodFather has quit IRC
14:40
<CAN-o-SPAM>
ask sbalneav i think he's a video card expert ... oh wait
14:40
<sbalneav>
lol
14:40
<_USUrPeR_>
:)
14:40
<CAN-o-SPAM>
hehe :)
14:41
<sbalneav>
Soooo, I know I'm going to regret asking this, but for the log's sake: what's NOT working with iTalc?
14:41
Doesn't connect, complete fubar, wha?
14:43
<_USUrPeR_>
sbalneav: the installation process last documented for the program is from 8.04 (the furthest forward I can find). There *WAS* a lts.conf option for START_ITALC = True which does not appear to have functionality any more
14:43alkisg has joined #ltsp
14:44
<_USUrPeR_>
though I may not be positive about the start_italc entry, because I may not have installed the program properly...
14:45
<sbalneav>
_USUrPeR_: I sure can't find a START_ITALC anywhere in the code now.
14:45
might have been an extention added by installing italc before.
14:45
Where'd you see the italc docs?
14:45
<_USUrPeR_>
it's possible
14:46
i *think* it was something required for starting the italc client on boot with a thinclient
14:46
err thin client
15:05hersonls has quit IRC
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15:10
<vagrantc>
Gadi: so ltsp-remoteapps should be in ltsp-client's /usr/sbin, and ltsp-remoteappsd should be in ltsp-client's /usr/share/ltsp/ ?
15:13Topslakr has quit IRC
15:13
<Gadi>
vagrantc: hey! (sorry, Im all over the place...) is that what I wrote in the commit message? :)
15:13
<vagrantc>
Gadi: the commit message just says what to do with ltsp-remoteappsd
15:13
<Gadi>
I think prolly /usr/bin
15:13
not /usr/sbin
15:13
as it runs as user
15:14
<vagrantc>
but both run from the thin client?
15:14
<Gadi>
nope
15:14
*d runs on the server
15:14
<vagrantc>
oh.
15:14
<Gadi>
it is just the inverse of localappsd
15:14
remoteappsd gets scp'd on login
15:14
to a tmpdir
15:14
<vagrantc>
yeah, but it's making my head swim to figure out what goes where :)
15:14
<Gadi>
on the server
15:14
(random tmpdir)
15:15* vagrantc head spins faster
15:15
<Gadi>
hehe
15:15
maybe reading the code is easier
15:15
:)
15:17
<vagrantc>
they're both installed on the thin client ...
15:17pmatulis has quit IRC
15:18
<vagrantc>
ok!
15:18
<alkisg>
_USUrPeR_, sbalneav: START_ITALC is in the italc package, not in ltsp. Italc puts it in /usr/share/ltsp/xinitrc.d/I15-italc
15:18
<vagrantc>
i *think* i get it now.
15:18
<_USUrPeR_>
?!?
15:19
<vagrantc>
that's *why* we have hook directories. so that other packages can add functionality.
15:19
<_USUrPeR_>
alkisg: oh. muy interesante
15:19
<sbalneav>
So, I got this IM from Jordan:
15:19
have you been watching the GNU vs. GNOME face off?
15:20
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: ooooh!
15:20* vagrantc fires up the popcorn maker
15:20
<sbalneav>
Anyone know anything about this? Miguel de Icaza and Stallman mudwrestling?
15:20
<_USUrPeR_>
Jordan the country? It's best to remain neutral in that situation...
15:20
<sbalneav>
I'd pay MONEY to see that!
15:21
_USUrPeR_: laserjock :)
15:21
<_USUrPeR_>
I was not aware that there was any contention...
15:21
<sbalneav>
I'm giggling around, but I can't see anything anywhere. I'm hoping he pings me back with an addy.
15:22
Dollars to doughnuts it has something to do with mono
15:24
<johnny>
it had to do with richard stallman being upset about people promoting non free software (including vmware) on planet gnome
15:25bobby_C has joined #ltsp
15:25Ahmuck-Jr has joined #ltsp
15:26
<sbalneav>
Quoting:
15:26
yeah, RMS said that as a GNU project that Planet GNOME should be censored to not have positive mentions of proprietary apps
15:26
to which Lefty said "maybe we shouldn't be a GNU project then"
15:28
http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/2009/12/13/to-gnu-or-not-to-gnu/
15:31
<vagrantc>
how can someone so right be so wrong? :)
15:34
<_USUrPeR_>
oh snap.
15:34
<johnny>
yeah.. richard stallman sometimes needs to learn to shut his trap
15:35
especially for a planet side that includes many personal workings of the developers..
15:35
the planet isn't just about gnome software, but the lives of the gnome developers..
15:35
which in some cases.. involves proprietary software..
15:36
<vagrantc>
a positive revieiw of proprietary software can give free software a checklist of things to do better.
15:38
<_USUrPeR_>
sounds more exciting than a congressional debate ;)
15:38
nobody even dropped a "yo momma" or anything
15:38* _USUrPeR_ goes back to watching jerry springer
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15:39
<vagrantc>
don't get Gadi started
15:39
<_USUrPeR_>
I think I want to now...
15:39
I've never seen him "started" :)
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16:44
<dmarkey>
Gadi: hey there
16:45
<vagrantc>
oh, i should upload a new version of ltsp-docs one of these days
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17:23
<kusznir_>
Hi all: two questions. 1) whenver my server reboots, all my thin clients crash the next time someone logs in and back out. (eg, when it restarts ldm). Has squashfs errors...Is there any way to fix this, or is this normal?
17:23
(note that they do NOT crash immediately after a reboot, they crash after the server reboots AND ldm restarts.
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17:34
<jhutchins_lt>
kusznir_: It would seem like good practice to log everybody out and probably shut down the clients for the reboot, but definitely restart the clients after.
17:35
<kusznir_>
I let users know and generally wait until they log out, but the real killer is having to restart all the thin clients...they're spread out over multiple rooms...Gets to be a real pain to walk around resetting each thin client. If I rebuild the disk (ltsp-update-image) its not as invasive as simply rebooting the server.
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17:45
<kusznir_>
Ok...question #2: some programs (most notably inkscape) take for ever to launch on a thin client (we're talking in the minutes here)...what's up with that / how can I fix that?
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20:36
<Ahmuck-Jr>
question ... http://www.pcdiskclone.com/pcnetworkclone.htm - is using network booting, either pxe, or cdrom then pxe. this product uses linux and uses pmagic, as well as others. is there a way to tell if it's ltsp or drbl?
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21:31
<madcat>
Hi anyone here? I've a question how do you automatically run local app on thin client without typing ltsp-localapps (program)?
21:32
I have 20 clients, and what I did, I edited the menu of each desktop, to point to ltsp-localapp (program), but it's very tedious, I know there has to be some other way!
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21:46
<epaphus>
Hello guys, Iam very interested in LTSP in ubuntu. And iam just going to ask my question direct:
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21:52
<epaphus>
We have a LAN of 40 computers, and we want to control things better if possible with PCs without HDs. However users constantly screw up the OS or misconfigure things.. or many many weird things always happen. Firefox acts up.. so.. with all this weird things users exposed their PCs
21:53
can LTSP provide me any advantage over feeding them a X session to 1 single server that manages all the processes for them??
21:54
<Ahmuck-Jr>
i use ltsp
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21:54
<epaphus>
Iam afraid that with multiple instance sof firefox (which they used the most) they will make all the users freeze.
21:55
or 1 problem with 1 app would be a problem for everybody
21:55
and then I would have to restart the server and boot everybody off
21:55
Ahmuck, ..?
21:57
<Ahmuck-Jr>
epaphus: what kind of clients would you have in pc power?
21:57
<epaphus>
Ahmuck, sorry can you rephrase your question? what kind of apps?
21:57
<Ahmuck-Jr>
epaphus: the nice thing with ltsp is that you can create a server, tell the clients to boot via the network and not even change the hard drive
21:57
so you can test these things before hand
21:57
<epaphus>
right.
21:58
<Ahmuck-Jr>
epaphus: processor speed, network speed, memory on clients, etc.
21:58
<epaphus>
but that doesnt answer my question when its actually being deployed.
21:58
oh.. in that case I can have all the best. Quad Core CPU server... and Atom 2GB dual core CPUs
21:58
all with gigabit nics
21:59
Will a problem with 1 app affect every user running that app?
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22:01
<epaphus>
Ahmuck-Jr,
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22:02
<Ahmuck-Jr>
yes
22:03
epaphus: it doesn't here
22:03
i've found it best to run firefox/flash as a local app
22:03
the programs i use are openoffice, scribus, etc.
22:04
<epaphus>
in a perfect world... I would just feed an ISO (live cd) to all my clients.. and thus run everything locally but save files on a NFS... but i dont think that exists or the project that has it DRBL seems dead :(
22:04
Ahmuck-Jr, how is it possible to run firefox locally and the rest of the apps on the server?
22:05
<Ahmuck-Jr>
drbl is dead?
22:07
<madcat>
epaphus I'm running LTSP on 20 clients all using atom dual core 2gb
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22:07
<epaphus>
Ahmuck-Jr, when you see ancient help guides on the net... and lot of support on a foreign lang.. thats the feeling you get.
22:07
<Ahmuck-Jr>
heh, that's linux
22:08
but there are up to date guides out there
22:08
and i envy your setup
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22:08
<epaphus>
madcat, and how do you deal when those 20 clients sharing 1 app that crashes or becomes unstable..?
22:08
my users are very CPU intensive.. they will open 10-20 fitrefox windows
22:08
they demand a lot of production
22:09
<madcat>
Um, I'm not an expert to this, but 20 clients, I've set them up to run firefox locally so it won't be on the server
22:09
using just 1 app
22:10
So I think what LTSP does is give out instances of those apps to them so they can run locally and utilize some of the local client resources
22:10
<Ahmuck-Jr>
correct
22:10
firefox running locally is going to use local memory
22:11
<madcat>
It's obvious when I tried to run a flash video there's an improvement...
22:11
<Ahmuck-Jr>
however one needs to install firefox and flash locally
22:11
epaphus: what distro?
22:11
<epaphus>
i havent decided, but i was thinking ubuntu
22:12
well in that case I wouldnt because i want to try to get rid of the HDs
22:13
<Ahmuck-Jr>
u could use the hd as local swap
22:13
is this a classroom environment? school?
22:15
<epaphus>
bussiness research dept
22:15
<madcat>
nope I don't have a hd
22:15
<epaphus>
madcat, then?
22:15
<madcat>
all these things happen in the server
22:16
the reason we implemented LTSP is because of electricity costs, ease of management, security
22:16
all our users just use it for basic email, surf, and a little youtube for our marketing videos
22:17
although, we haven't got the chance to use gigabit, as it's very expensive!
22:17
I'm sure it will be faster
22:18
intel atoms cost us about $250 per workstation
22:19
<Ahmuck-Jr>
150.00
22:19
<madcat>
:) damn!
22:21
<Ahmuck-Jr>
http://tinyurl.com/y86447k
22:21
actually, cheaper
22:21
those are the 230, they used to have the 330
22:22
epaphus: many edubuntu users are using ltsp
22:22
<madcat>
oh yeah, we're using 330 that's why, whew!
22:23
<Ahmuck-Jr>
2g ram
22:23
no cdrom or hard drive
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22:27
<epaphus>
how frequent do you guys have to reboot the server in case of problems?
22:28
<Ahmuck-Jr>
i never reboot
22:29
not for client problems anyway
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22:36* epaphus looks at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DisklessUbuntuHowto
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23:00
<madcat>
bye guys
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23:11
<sbalneav>
Evening all, epaphus if you have any questions, feel free to ask
23:12
<Ahmuck>
i believe it's a local apps question
23:12
<epaphus>
thank you sbalneav
23:14
I think that with the "devils" my users are.. I iam going to try to boot their OS from an NFS and PXE.. rather then go for ltsp at the moment. So that if there is any memoryleaks/ misbehaviour over a weird app I dont have the other users affected
23:14
i just found out its possible to do a NFS boot with PXE.. pretty interesting
23:14
the idea off course is to do a diskless boot up for each client, preferebly.
23:15
also i think that doing an NFS boot up requires less read/writes on the TCP side once its booted ... rather then LTSP which is continous.
23:16
<alkisg>
LTSP can use NFS
23:16
But maybe you mean fat clients instead of thin clients
23:17
<epaphus>
thats right
23:17
<sbalneav>
epaphus: LTSP has always been a compromise between providing use for people with lower powered clients that won't run full desktops by themselves, and people who want to run full fledged workstations, just without a hard drive.
23:18
<alkisg>
Well e.g. Ahmuck posted a link in #edubuntu with a method to have fat clients using NFS. If you'
23:18
<Ahmuck>
well, that's what epaphus posted
23:18
<alkisg>
If you're talking about that, you don't save yourself from any administration...
23:18
<Ahmuck>
i re-posted it
23:18
<alkisg>
OK, I wasn't here before
23:18
So it's just like having a different hard disk for each machine
23:19
With LTSP you just have to administer one machine
23:20
<epaphus>
Sure i do.. because each time they reboot alkisg .. they need to load the OS fresh.
23:20
if i want to push an upgrade.. i upgrade my nfs root.. and people next time they boot will get it
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23:20
<alkisg>
Nope, that won't work
23:20
NFS is mounted read-write in that page
23:21
Each client will need its own export
23:21
<epaphus>
i think i would have to play on with read only mounting of some sort then
23:21
<alkisg>
I did a fat client implementation myself this summer, mounting clients read-only over NFS
23:22
I didn't even use a chroot or a second image, all clients used the server installation
23:22
<epaphus>
alkisg, did it go well? hmm
23:22
<alkisg>
So whatever program was installed on the server, was on the clients as well
23:22
<epaphus>
well for ease of administration.. i would do the second root filesystem
23:23
<alkisg>
Yes it went pretty well, I just had to bind-mount every file that needs to be writable
23:23
<sbalneav>
Ahmuck: Yeah, that looks about right for Jaunty, localapps wasn't fully complete by jaunty-time
23:23
it's much simpler for Karmic
23:24
<Ahmuck>
ah, that's right, i'm on karmic, not jaunty
23:24* Ahmuck is tooo tired today
23:24
<epaphus>
alkisg, i didnt understand you last statement. was that ironic? :P
23:24
<alkisg>
No no
23:25
When you mount NFS root read only, you'll need to have a tmpfs over some of the files, otherwise it won't boot
23:25
So the difficult part is to find out which places need to be writable
23:25
<epaphus>
so thats where it can get tricky
23:25
hmm
23:25
<alkisg>
But then I thought of another way
23:25
<sbalneav>
I think that page actually uses a RW NFS mount.
23:25
<epaphus>
all the . directories
23:26
i guess
23:26
in their home directory
23:26
sbalneav, what page?
23:26
<alkisg>
sbalneav: yes, but it does that for a single client
23:26
<sbalneav>
Which means you need a separate chroot for each thin client
23:26
<alkisg>
You can't have multiple clients booting over the same nfs read-write root
23:26
Right
23:26
<sbalneav>
yeah
23:26
epaphus: hold on, I'll paste the link
23:26
<epaphus>
otherwise each night I recopy my entire filesystem from a backup.. and i always keep fresh
23:27
<sbalneav>
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DisklessUbuntuHowto
23:27
<alkisg>
epaphus: Then I thought about using nbd instead of nfs, and it was much faster AND easier
23:27
It went like this: the server is dual boot, with 2 partitions
23:27
1 partition = server, second partition = client image
23:27
So you prepare the clients by booting the second partition of the server
23:28
When you're done, you boot the first partition of the server, and export the second partition with nbd
23:28
<johnny>
i wonder about drbd
23:28
<alkisg>
drbl? it sucks
23:28
<epaphus>
right, thats what i said.. drbl seems dead
23:28
<johnny>
whatever just made it into the linux kernel
23:28
it just made it..
23:28
this release
23:29
something must not be dead :)
23:29
or next release rather
23:29
also nouveau :)
23:29
<alkisg>
Made what? drbl is mostly a set of script that are not even properly packaged
23:29
<johnny>
no
23:29
then i must be talking about something else..
23:29
it's some network block device over tcp
23:30
<sbalneav>
Years ago, LTSP actually funded some work with ENBD
23:30
<Ahmuck>
http://drbl.sourceforge.net/
23:30
<johnny>
sbalneav, do you know about this thing?
23:30
<sbalneav>
but IIRC, it never really went anywhere
23:30
<johnny>
Ahmuck, alkisg no.. i'm not talking about that
23:31
not at all
23:31
<Ahmuck>
so, back to epaphus, discussion help you with a decision
23:31
?
23:31
<johnny>
i wasn't talking about drbl
23:31
but some network block device driver that entered the kernel this release
23:31
<sbalneav>
iirc, doesn't drbl have everything in the initramfs?
23:31
<johnny>
sbalneav, i'm not talking about that that
23:31
i'm talking about drbd or whatever..
23:31
<sbalneav>
lol
23:31
<johnny>
they are the ones who brought it up
23:31
<sbalneav>
lololol
23:32
<epaphus>
Ahmuck, absolutely :) i now have a lot more options
23:32
<sbalneav>
drbd drbl
23:32
hold on, lemme google drdb
23:32
<johnny>
i think that is the name.. i can't recall..
23:32
<Ahmuck>
btw, i have a question. i found a product that uses oss software some of which i belive is gpl but does not appear to present a license notice anywhere? does one first inform the vendor and then the authors?
23:32
<johnny>
yep.. that's it sbalneav
23:32
<sbalneav>
DRBD® refers to block devices designed as a building block to form high availability (HA) clusters. This is done by mirroring a whole block device via an assigned network. DRBD can be understood as network based raid-1.
23:32
<johnny>
drbd
23:32
ah
23:33
<sbalneav>
That's from the web page.
23:33
Looks like it's a clustering thing
23:33
which is vaguely analogous to thin client.
23:34
People have asked us why we don't use ataoe, or scsioe, etc.
23:34
The answer is, as always "we greatfully accept patches!" :)
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23:35
<alkisg>
Anyway, I saw that fat clients were easier to implement over a read-write root. NBD has an option to provide a read write root over a read only partition, by using a tmpfs while exporting it. So that was the easiest way to have fat clients.
23:36
If DRBD also supports exporting read only partitions as read-write, it'll be nice.
23:36
<Ahmuck>
fat clients over read-write root vs ltsp thin clients?
23:36* sbalneav looks for nubae
23:36
<sbalneav>
Nubae wrote a plugin for ltsp that does fat clients
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23:36
<Ahmuck>
it was an edubutnu plugin though iirc
23:37
but the script was modifiable
23:37
<sbalneav>
I keep bugging him to just work with us to upstream it.
23:37
With the idea that once he does, we make HIM an LTSP developer as well
23:37
alkisg: You've had some experience with how easy THAT process can be :)
23:38
<alkisg>
Yup, if one likes lobster and can code, he's automatically an ltsp developer :D
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23:41
<sbalneav>
We're a fairly inclusive bunch :)
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23:47
<sbalneav>
Headin to bed. Be on tomorrow, same bat time, same bat channel
23:47
night all
23:47
<Ahmuck>
so alkisg ur running fat clients?
23:48
<alkisg>
Ahmuck: no it was a proof of concept
23:48
I decided that I didn't want fat clients because greek schools don't have good enough networks for them
23:48
Night sbalneav
23:52
<Ahmuck>
the concept worked however
23:52
the concept was not really ltsp
23:53
if one had a gigabyte network, nics, some fat clients and a quad server would you choose ltsp or your concept
23:56
<alkisg>
New clients? Dual core etc?
23:56
And how many?
23:56
<epaphus>
alkisg, hmm?
23:58
<Ahmuck>
http://tinyurl.com/yd69g6v
23:58
10
23:59
quad core server
23:59
this is what i orignally looked at
23:59
clients about 130.00
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