IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 19 November 2012   (all times are UTC)

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00:34
<vagrantc>
sheesh. it's a good thing i'm testing wheezy's LTSP ... it's rife with issues ... :(
01:01
ok, some false alarms
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04:00
<kleewyck>
Has anyone managed to make a HP5700 Thin client boot on edubuntu 12.xx? No matter what I do it says my CPU doesn't have PAE even though it seems to have the generic Kernel installed.
04:00
This worked fine under 11.xx
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17:03
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so i've been finding more bugs i'd like to fix for wheezy ... let's hope i'm not getting too ambitious
17:03
alkisg: with your bzr builds, were you building from trunk + the ltsp-debian-packaging branch?
17:03
<alkisg>
hey vagrantc, sorry for not having the time on the weekend to work on fixing the dashisms
17:03
vagrantc: yes
17:04
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i think i got it, at least it works for bash/dash ... other shells not so hopeful, but good enough for wheezy... i hope.
17:04
alkisg: so your bzr builds will likely fail, as i'm pulling patches from trunk
17:05
trying to resolve http://bugs.debian.org/690267 now ... the swap files don't get removed if encrypted swap is enabled.
17:05
<alkisg>
vagrantc: the last version I published in the greek ppa was 5.4.3-1+r2393+p1146~precise1, and I'm hoping to upload a new one there in a couple of weeks
17:06
<vagrantc>
i tried patching nbd-disconnect to remove the encrypted volume, which works, but then apparently the nbd module is removed before it can nbd-disconnect
17:06
nbd-disconnect seems prone to race conditions, no?
17:07
<alkisg>
Err what? Why would you need the nbd module to stay around after unmounting swap, when using nfs root?
17:07
<vagrantc>
NBD swap
17:07
<alkisg>
Right, so, unencrypt, swapoff, nbd-client -d, and module gets removed
17:08
<vagrantc>
alkisg: except nbd-client -d fails
17:08
alkisg: because nbd module is already removed for some reason
17:09
<alkisg>
(07:06:52 μμ) vagrantc: nbd-disconnect seems prone to race conditions, no? ==> yup, by design :P
17:09
<vagrantc>
works fine if it's not encrypted... which confuses me.
17:09
since i put another bit of code in the same case statement that nbd-disconnect is in to handle it.
17:10
er, the same case statement that it removes swap on /dev/nbd*
17:10* vagrantc pastes a patch
17:10
<alkisg>
vagrantc: generally, swap files should be handled by /etc/init.d/nbd-client, not by nbd-disconnect
17:11* alkisg will have to postpone looking into details though... busy for a few days more :-/
17:11
<vagrantc>
*sigh*
17:11
i'll just have to upload without it
17:12
<alkisg>
asdrtgheryttrg
17:12
(kid playing with keyboard :()
17:12* vagrantc looks for a cat
17:12
<vagrantc>
ah, close enough
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17:59
<vagrantc>
ugh.
17:59
PROCESS_LTS_CONF is borked.
18:05
we have too many codepaths to test everything manually...
18:10
PROCESS_LTS_CONF actually causes no environment variiables to be set...
18:25* vagrantc is perplexed
18:44
<vagrantc>
ok, it has to do with lots of script snippets doing: test -z "$FOO" || return
18:44
which returns the value of the last command, which triggers and error, and when "set -e" is enabled, it bails on the entire script
18:45
this is a lot of code....
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18:47
<vagrantc>
was always nervous about that behavior
19:01
looks like ltsp_config.d only has 20fatclients...
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19:33
<blakes>
My LTSP server has two NICs, one pointing to my thin clients, the other pointing to a broader private net where windoze boxes, printers, and wireless devices sit. The server is effectively acting as a firewall for the thin client network. I need to be able to plant other kinds of devices on the thin client private net and let them pass through. Any ideas on how to make that happen?
19:34
<vagrantc>
you need to set up a firewall with NAT ...
19:35
<blakes>
using what, iptables?
19:35
that's the default, right?
19:35
<vagrantc>
in a two-NIC LTSP server setup, clients don't necessarily have direct network access
19:35
iptables, or a frontend
19:36
i've had good luck with arno-iptables-firewall
19:36
or ferm
19:36
although arno-iptables-firewall actually walks you through some of the steps, ferm allows you to create your own rules
19:37
there's also an example script in ltsp sources ... dunno if it's installed in any of the packages
19:37
<blakes>
I remember reading somewhere that the nic setup on a two nic LTSP setup that iptables is somewhere in the picture.
19:38
am I going to clobber that?
19:38
<vagrantc>
by default, no, but if you're using fatclients or localapps, yes.
19:38
you'll also want to make sure not to firewall off any of the ports LTSP uses
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19:38
<blakes>
am using local-apps
19:38
<vagrantc>
if the localapps have network access, then you shouldn't need to do anything for other devices.
19:39
or rather, you've already done it :)
19:39
unless you've used a really restrictive firewall
19:42
<blakes>
Some of this config I have inherited.... so I am not really clear on it. I do know that Firefox and Chrome are running as local-apps. But I don't recall specifically making the iptables do NAT.
19:43
The two nets are both private with a smoothwall protecting the whole kahoona. Can't I just say screw it and cable the two nets together?
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19:49
<vagrantc>
blakes: is the smoothwall connected to the network the LTSP clients are on?
19:50
<blakes>
No. 192.168.10.0/24 is smoothwall net and one nic on the LTSP server, the thin clients are on 192.168.0.0/24
19:53
I think I am already answering my question here.... there would be two dhcp servers on the combined net that could be bad! plus what happens if a thin client gets an address on the .10 net... it would be blocked by the ltsp server. So it sounds more than what simple netmasking could take care of.
19:55
<vagrantc>
in that case, you'd need a dhcp server on the LTSP server configured to only listen on your LTSP network.
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19:55
<vagrantc>
not at all uncommon.
19:55
<blakes>
It took me a long time to get to know BSD's IPFW firewall... and I just wanted to be lazy and not learn another firewall syntax.
19:56
<vagrantc>
blakes: so you must have some sort of NAT on your firewall, unless you're using an HTTP proxy or something.
19:56
er, some sort of NAT on your LTSP server
19:56
<knipwim>
vagrantc: are you busy committing?
19:56
<vagrantc>
otherwise your localapps wouldn't be able to get network access.
19:57
knipwim: i hope i'm done for the day...
19:57
knipwim: i can always rebase as long as we're not conflicting
19:57
<knipwim>
otherwise i'm going to commit the gentoo nbd stuff
19:57
<blakes>
Just NAT on the smoothwall. no proxy. I tried to do an iptables -l -v but it wasn't very informative. I am not sure exactly how the ltsp server is handling traffic.
19:58
<vagrantc>
blakes: and you're sure the smoothwall isn't on both networks?
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19:59
<blakes>
There are only three classes on the iptables, and I couldn't tell which NIC they were listening to.
19:59
yes on the smoothwall
19:59
<vagrantc>
blakes: try: iptables -L -n -t nat
20:00
blakes: so... you plug other things in and they don't work?
20:00
blakes: or are you just trying to understand how it works?
20:00
<blakes>
Another chain! POSTROUTING:MASQUERADE all -- 192.168.0.0/24 0.0.0.0/0
20:01
<vagrantc>
so your LTSP server has NAT configured...
20:03
<blakes>
A little of both... but mostly I need to install Voip phones in every classroom. The trouble is that in some rooms they have the ltsp net only wired and no other capacity to cross-connect. the phones have to live on the .10 network OR get passed through the firewall on the LTSP net.
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20:07
<blakes>
Ok.. so if I understand the masqurade class, it should be NATting any ip address on the private side to the public side .... so maybe I have a dns issue? not a nat issue
20:08
<vagrantc>
could be.
20:09
you might need to configure the dhcp server running on the ltsp server to give out the appropriate DNS entries, or set up a dns proxy on the LTSP server.
20:10
<blakes>
I guess I have some more learning to do on this... stay tuned, dear reader. Will Blake surrender to the evil iptables ore reconfigure dhcp? ttyl and thanks!!!!
20:11
<knipwim>
vagrantc: you know why not all files in tftpdir/ltsp/$name are set to chmod +r ?
20:13
<vagrantc>
knipwim: my guess is that they should be, but probably aren't usually a problem?
20:15
<knipwim>
dracut outputs it's generated initramfs with chmod 600
20:16
i was wondering if that was unusual
20:17
<kev_j>
When I download something in firefox using localapps, and try to open it from the download window, it asks what application I want to use because it is obviously trying to use applications that are within the chroot enviro.. Is there a way to make it use the server path? (Sorry if I didn't word that very well)
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20:36
<knipwim>
vagrantc: done
20:40
<blakes>
Kev_j: I have run into this problem too. I haven't found a fix for it yet short of instructing users how to link apps to mimetypes. In my case, I don't think it is the chroot environment issue you mentioned, but bookmarks and other things get saved into the users profile in /home/USERNAME/.mozilla.....
20:40
<vagrantc>
kev_j: no, you have to install all the apps locally
20:41
kev_j: at which point, you might want to just use LTSP_FATCLIENT
20:41
well, you have to install all the apps your users might want to use ...
20:41
at which point, it might be easier to go fatclient.
20:42
knipwim: are you still planning on defaulting to NFS, or are you pushing NBD all the way now? :)
20:43
i'm still waffling for debian, wheezy will still default to NFS, but with ltsp-pnp i'm considering switching it.
20:43
<blakes>
I have firefox installed in the chroot, but I have the same trouble as Kev_j
20:44
<kev_j>
that is the same issue, I have firefox installed, but not the program that would open it
20:44
open the downloaded file
20:44
in the chroot...
20:45
<blakes>
Well... I have acrobat and flash-plugin installed in the chroot. Acrobat is not associated with mimetype, but flash is.
20:46
<knipwim>
kev_j, blakes i think ltsp-remote-apps is the way for that
20:47
hmm, or not
20:47
<blakes>
no such thing on my 12.04 install. Is this something new... an add in, a replacement?
20:49
I just need a utility to add the correct path/application to whatever freaking, hide-the-ball database mozilla keeps its mimetypes.... then recurse homes and walk away smiling.
20:50
<kev_j>
blakes: so if they download a pdf and try to open from the firefox download window it opens the localapps acrobat?
20:51
<blakes>
no... acrobat is not run as a local app... only firefox
20:51
<kev_j>
sorry, I don't completely understand (plus I don't know how to use mimetypes, so I am a little lost there, but I am looking at it right now)
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20:52
<vagrantc>
ltsp-remote-apps could be used to start the application on the server, although you'll have a difficult time autogenerating the mime-types on the fly.
20:53
ltsp-remoteapps
20:53
<blakes>
it looks like the mimetypes... "helper applications" are kept in /home/[user]/.mozilla/firefox/[profile]/mimeTypes.rdf
20:54
<vagrantc>
it's basically like the correlary to localapps
20:54
<knipwim>
vagrantc: but do you know how to configure it?
20:54
<blakes>
I am not smart enough to write a script to re-write the entry for externalApplication:application/pdf, etc.
20:54
<vagrantc>
i don't remember if it's automatically set up, or you have to enable the variable...
20:55
<knipwim>
something with REMOTE_APPS_MIME_PACKAGES ?
20:56
vagrantc: but to your question earlier, haven't tought about nfs vs nbd really
20:57
<vagrantc>
knipwim: at least on debian/ubuntu, it's now much easier to switch back and forth between them.
20:57
<knipwim>
that was what i was going for also
20:57
with another initramfs builder
20:57
<blakes>
ltsp-remoteapps only exists in the chroot.... so If I read correctly, the "helper application" should be something like ltsp-remoteapps /usr/bin/acroread?
20:57
???
20:58
<knipwim>
maybe :)
20:58
<vagrantc>
yup
20:58
i'm looking into it... it's not one of our better documented featuress
20:58
<knipwim>
blakes: if it works, could you let it know?
20:59
<blakes>
And any suggestions on deploying that to 300 users? This sounds hinkey.
20:59
<knipwim>
vagrantc: if i remember, you could set it up based on mime types
20:59
so that pdf would automatically open acroread on the server
21:00
<vagrantc>
i can't find the code to enable it..
21:00
<knipwim>
mgariepy_: you might know? ^^^
21:00* vagrantc wonders if it got lost in one of the code reshuffles
21:01
<vagrantc>
ah, REMOTE_APPS=true in lts.conf
21:01
<kev_j>
should I be able to open it like blakes described from the xterm?
21:01
vagrantc: is it disabled by default?
21:02
<blakes>
From another angle... the default pdf reader is NOT acroread. it is envince(sp?). Wonder if this a stem of the problem?
21:02
<vagrantc>
disabled by default, if i recall correctly.
21:02
<blakes>
code reshuffle problem, I mean.
21:02
<knipwim>
vagrantc: and a mention in /usr/share/ldm/rc.d/X01-remoteapps
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21:04
<vagrantc>
yup, REMOTE_APPS=true, and then a localapp should be able to ltsp-remoteapps FOO
21:05
i.e. ltsp-remoteapps acroread
21:05
<blakes>
my lts.conf has LOCAL_APPS=True, REMOTE_APPS=True, LOCAL_APPS_MENU = True, LOCAL_APPS_MENU_ITEMS = evince,firefox,chromium-browser
21:05
<vagrantc>
some applications may not play well with localapps or remoteapps
21:06
ok, back to the prep work to upload a new version of LTSP to debian...
21:07
<knipwim>
good luck :)
21:07
<kev_j>
well I have to reload then since I am testing all this on my computer... can you guys let me know if I miss anything important?
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21:36
<kev_j>
so how would I use ltsp-remoteapps to open the file?
21:37
<vagrantc>
which file?
21:37
and which application?
21:38
ltsp-remoteapps "COMMAND ARGUMENTS"
21:38
<kev_j>
the downloaded pdf file in firefox
21:38
<vagrantc>
or is it: ltsp-remoteapps COMMAND ARGUMENTS ...
21:39
kev_j: the same way you'd specify some other arbitrary program in the dialog...
21:39
<kev_j>
so ltsp-remoteapps acroread opens acroread, but I don't know how to make it open the downloaded file
21:39
<vagrantc>
ltsp-remoteapps acroread FILE
21:39
probably
21:39
or
21:39
ltsp-remoteapps "acroread FILE"
21:41
<kev_j>
but I'm not typing when I try to open the file in firefox... does it have to do with the mimetypes thing?
21:42
<vagrantc>
you could write a simple two-line wrapper script:
21:42
#!/bin/sh
21:42
exec ltsp-remoteapps acroread $@
21:43
<kev_j>
ah, I tried that, but I didn't know the $@, I had tried $1
21:43
<vagrantc>
don't really know how to configure mime types, it seems darned near every program reinvents that wheel.
21:43
$1 should work as long as there's only one argument
21:43
$@ is all the arguments
21:43
you might want to quote it... "$@"
21:44
alternately, you might be able to define .desktop files, and maybe, if you're lucky, some applications will see that... but that might just be for menus, not mimetypes.
21:44
<kev_j>
damn, so it opens it but still doesn't open the file with it
21:44
<vagrantc>
like i said earlier, it's probably just easier to run LTSP_FATCLIENT=true
21:45
it's a game of whack-a-mole you're embarking on.
21:45
kev_j: ok, try this one:
21:45
<kev_j>
yeah... it's half me being stubborn and half me being curious
21:45
<vagrantc>
#!/bin/sh
21:45
exec ltsp-remoteapps "acroread $@"
21:46
if you really just need one or two apps, it might be fine. if you need lots... it'll be a lot of work.
21:46
<kev_j>
same result, that's what I tried accidentally when you first said I might want to quote it
21:46
it's just one or two
21:46
so far anyway
21:47
<vagrantc>
hmmm...
21:47
exec ltsp-remoteapps "acroread \"$@\""
21:47
maybe?
21:48
<kev_j>
would it be exec ltsp-remoteapps "acroread \"$@\"" or exec ltsp-remoteapps "acroread \'$@\'"
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21:50
<kev_j>
neither worked..
21:50
<vagrantc>
it's the argument processing from shell game...
21:51
<kev_j>
yeah
21:51
<vagrantc>
try with: exec ltsp-remoteapps "acroread $@"
21:51
doh.
21:52
<kev_j>
heh
21:52
<vagrantc>
kev_j: is the file in /tmp
21:52
?
21:52
or something other than the user's homedir?
21:52
<kev_j>
home
21:52
<vagrantc>
hm.
21:52
i was going to say try with: exec ltsp-remoteapps "acroread $@"
21:53
and then run "pgrep -l -f acroread" on the server
21:53
does it have any meaningful arguments?
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21:54
<kev_j>
hrm, that's kinda wierd, it lists the file in the process....
21:55
<vagrantc>
and the path to the file... ?
21:56
<kev_j>
and then I open the file manually from within acroread and the process doesn't change
21:56
/home/user/Downloads
21:56
<vagrantc>
could you cut-and-paste the results of the pgrep ?
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21:59
<kev_j>
http://pastebin.com/6ChEZ3cW
22:00
<vagrantc>
and the file is actually present on the server?
22:00
<kev_j>
the first is after trying to open it from firefox (localapps) and the second is going to open in acroread and selecting the file (which shows up after that)
22:00
yes
22:00
<vagrantc>
if you manually run it from the commandline, it works?
22:00
are there multiple sessions logged in as "user" ?
22:01
<kev_j>
yes it works if I type it, and no, no other sessions for user
22:01
<vagrantc>
kev_j: do you have a different pdf reader you could try it with?
22:01
evince, epdfview ...
22:01
<kev_j>
yeah, xpdf
22:02
<vagrantc>
classic :)
22:02
kev_j: see if that works as expected
22:03
<kev_j>
not at all actually...
22:03
typing it works, but trying to run it from firefox does nothing
22:04
<vagrantc>
kev_j: would it be so bad to install acroread and whatever else locally?
22:04
so that it could run them as localapps as well?
22:05
<kev_j>
no, I was trying to but for some reason acroread isn't in my listed repositorys... but once I started messing with it it was the whole stubborn and curious thing
22:08
thanks for the help, I will just get that working
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22:11
<vagrantc>
good luck
22:12
i probably need to review ltsp-docs and get an update of that out
22:14
<kev_j>
well hell, I don't know what the *#$@% is wrong with acroread or firefox, but it doesn't open the file either way
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22:16
<kev_j>
mebbe it's that it doesn't list pdf as a content type...
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23:06* vagrantc uploads ltsp 5.4.2-3 to debian ...
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