IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 7 May 2012   (all times are UTC)

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06:07
<maxwell__>
hello all, simple question: how to mute very loud beep? I have rmmod pcspkr and set bell-style none. The beep comes from soundcard, not from speaker and is VERY loud even if the music is set to 10%
06:09
computer starts "beeping" randomly and restart of the client helps
06:10
beep sounds on every key press
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06:24* alkisg_debian is reading http://wiki.debian.org/FlashPlayer ... So flash in debian needs a per-user configuration file in order to work with pulseaudio (and thus ltsp)?
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06:44
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg_debian, I kinda of doubt that, looking at that page
06:45
It looks like you could also put that configuration in the global alsa config
06:45
In fact, it's probably already there, since most distros that come with pulse, configure alsa to redirect to pulse, which is exactly what that asoundrc does
06:50
See /usr/share/alsa/pulse-alsa.conf on Ubuntu :)
06:51
<alkisg_debian>
Hyperbyte: so you think it'd work out of the box on debian too, even if the wiki page says otherwise?
06:54
<Hyperbyte>
Where does it say that?
06:58
<alkisg_debian>
In the wiki page I linked above
06:58
"Remember that if you need the Flash Player to work with pulse, you can ask libasound to do so in your ~/.asoundrc:"
06:58
<Hyperbyte>
Those are under Troubleshooting
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06:59
<Hyperbyte>
But maybe Debian doesn't use pulseaudio by default, or didn't use pulseaudio by default and that's an old page?
07:00
Have you checked if that configuration specified there is already present in your system?
07:01
<alkisg_debian>
Not yet I'm currently trying to find a way to add "contrib" to my sources _graphically_ :P
07:01
(and failing to find it :D)
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07:09
<scytheee>
hi, after upgrading the edubuntu server of our primary school from 10.10 to 12.04LTS, some of the older clients (Pentium2 233MHz) don't boot anymore, they stuck at a kernel panic after loading initrd.img. Tried to install a lucid LTSP client image with --dist=lucid --arch=i386, but LTSP-Client install terminates through an error in ltsp-client-core :/
07:11
<alkisg_debian>
What error?
07:11
<scytheee>
07:11
Fehler traten auf beim Bearbeiten von:
07:11
/var/cache/apt/archives/ltsp-client-core_5.2.16-0ubuntu7_i386.deb
07:11
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
07:11
Fehler: Die LTSP-Client-Installation ist fehlgeschlagen
07:11
sry, it's german
07:12
<alkisg_debian>
scytheee: look for earlier errors
07:12
Near a line that mentions "installing ltsp-client-core..."
07:13
<scytheee>
got it
07:13
07:13
Entpacken von ltsp-client-core (aus .../ltsp-client-core_5.2.16-0ubuntu7_i386.deb) ...
07:13
dpkg: Fehler beim Bearbeiten von /var/cache/apt/archives/ltsp-client-core_5.2.16-0ubuntu7_i386.deb (--unpack):
07:13
07:14
hm, doesn't tell more :/
07:15
same error happened on trying installing an oineric client, so it shouldn't be a problem of that single package
07:15
<alkisg_debian>
Did you verify that this client can't be booted with any recent kernel, e.g. with a live cd?
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07:17
<scytheee>
alkisg_debian, the 8 Pentium2 machines only have 64 till 128mb ram, don't think they will boot a normal ubuntu cd. but hadn't tried
07:17
<alkisg_debian>
scytheee: they'll boot the kernel, we don't care about later on
07:17
<scytheee>
ok
07:17
<alkisg_debian>
If you see plymouth (the ubuntu logo), that's good enough
07:18
scytheee: 64 RAM? 12.04 thin clients need 128
07:18
So if you can't upgrade the RAM to 128, do build a 10.04 chroot
07:19
<scytheee>
some have 128 and got stuck too. they load initrd.img hung up and Caps Lock/Scroll Lock LEDs are blinking
07:19
<alkisg_debian>
OK, that's probably the kernel problem, but if you also want to work with 64 RAM, then you absolutely need an older chroot, not just a 10.04 kernel
07:20
<scytheee>
ok, understood. but trying to install 10.04 chroot didn't work as described :D
07:21
<alkisg_debian>
You could do it in a VM, but first ensure that the kernel is the problem
07:21
So, 2 questions that you need to answer at this point: (1) do the clients boot with the 12.04 live cd or not? and (2) can you upgrade your ram to 128?
07:22
<scytheee>
ok. will try it. if CPU is the problem, I need to install 10.04 in a VM, build 10.04 chroot and copy it to the 12.04 server?
07:22
<alkisg_debian>
If you answer "no" to (1), then you don't need to answer (2) :D
07:22
<scytheee>
:D
07:22
<alkisg_debian>
Yes
07:23
<scytheee>
thx :)
07:23
<mealstrom>
hi everyone
07:23
<alkisg_debian>
And if you answer no to (2), then you don't need to answer (1), as you'll need a 10.04 chroot anyway
07:23
Hi mealstrom
07:24
(or a debian one, if you want your chroot to be supported for a longer time)
07:24
scytheee: on second thought, _don't_ use a 10.04 chroot (if it comes to that), use a debian testing one
07:25
As that has a recent ltsp version so that you won't need to change the nbd-server configuration etc
07:25
<scytheee>
alkisg_debian, what do I have to enter in --dist= for latest debian chroot?
07:25
<alkisg_debian>
Use a VM again :)
07:25
<mealstrom>
alkisg: i've managed to mount home directories with nfs4. i've to use empty /home/ directory on client machine and mount there exported homedir. this helps
07:28
<alkisg_debian>
brb
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08:09
<scytheee>
alkisg, hi again :) the p2 machines have all 128mb ram. running an ubuntu 12.04 i386 cd lead to a hung up in a stack trace, same as booting through ltsp
08:09
<alkisg>
scytheee: do you see the ubuntu logo before the crash?
08:10
<scytheee>
can't say, the monitor sais "no signal" till the stack trace shows up and the keyboard LEDs are blinking
08:10
I also see no grub to influence this :D
08:10
<alkisg>
How long from the moment the kernel is loaded and up to the crash?
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08:11
<alkisg>
a couple of seconds or e.g. 20 seconds?
08:11
<scytheee>
nothing, from loading grub till stack trace
08:11
<alkisg>
You can press [tab] in syslinux to remove "quiet splash"
08:11
No seconds?
08:11
So it's probably right after the kernel loads
08:11
<scytheee>
nothing :/
08:12
<alkisg>
OK, so you need a 486 chroot
08:12
I'd recommend debian testing for that
08:12
<scytheee>
can I install that on the 12.04 server through "ltsp-build-client --dist=" ?
08:13
<alkisg>
I think for that to work you'd need to troubleshoot some ltsp-build-client scripts, so if you're not a programmer, no
08:13
<scytheee>
ok
08:14
<alkisg>
Maybe you can use deboostrap and install ltsp-client/ldm manually in the chroot, but that might require fixing things afterwards too
08:14
So... a debian VM might be easier
08:15
If you don't mind waiting a few weeks, I plan on uploading a debian chroot on some web server, just for your people with your problem
08:15
(I'm supporting a few hundred schools here)
08:17
<scytheee>
would be nice to get it fixed this week, cause some classes count on that :/ but would be nice to have a ready to use solution
08:17
<alkisg>
Yeah maybe a "apt-get install ltsp-debian-testing-chroot" package
08:21
<Hyperbyte>
scytheee, you could use your old chroot from 10.04 if you still have it in a backup somewhere
08:21
Or at least I think you can
08:21
alkisg will smythe me if I'm wrong.
08:23
<scytheee>
Hyperbyte, thx, but I don't have it anymore :/
08:24
alkisg, I booted one of the old machines on an other monitor, now I could see something :D kernel booted, but after loading the initrd.img it hung up
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08:25
<alkisg>
scytheee: the kernel and initrd are loaded by syslinux. After loading them, it passes control to them. So the kernel gets to execute _after_ the initrd is loaded.
08:26
But if you press [tab] and remove quit splash, and see that the initramfs gets uncompressed by the kernel,
08:26
and _then_ it crashes,
08:26
then it might be something solveable
08:26
A photo might help, if you have a mobile with camera
08:27
<scytheee>
did one, just uploading
08:27
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n569/teleklack/IMG_20120507_102249.jpg
08:28
after that, the stack trace shows up
08:30
<alkisg>
scytheee: can you press [tab] and replace quiet splash with break=top ?
08:30
<scytheee>
ok
08:30
<alkisg>
It seems like the kernel loads, which is a good sign
08:34
<scytheee>
nothing new with break=top :/
08:35
<alkisg>
So the initramfs doesn't start running
08:35
If you want, you might ask in #ubuntu-kernel about the problem
08:35
Otherwise, a debian chroot...
08:35
You might also try with the non-pae kernel
08:36
<scytheee>
alkisg, how can I get it?
08:36
<alkisg>
Ah no scratch that I think that you had the non-pae version already in your TFTP
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09:39
<markit>
hi, kubuntu 12.04, I've changed server IP address, but clients seem to work fine even if I've not run ltsp-update-sshkeys, is it normal?
09:39
I'm asking this because epoptes seem not to see my clients though :(
09:49
<vmlintu__>
alkisg: when installing ltsp images on local hard drive, how do you mount them when the machine boots? Do you run local nbd-server or do you mount them through loop device or something else?
09:56
<markit>
mmm seems that shows client only once logghed, AFAIR time ago ti showed client icon also when just powered up or something like that
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13:34
<scytheee_>
which folders do I have to transfer/copy, if I want to transfer/backup a chroot from an old ubuntu/edubuntu LTSP server to a new one? /opt/ltsp and /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp ?
13:35
<muppis>
Both.
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13:37
<muppis>
Didn't read whole sentence at first time, but yes, those are which you need. :) But you can come up with some issues using old chroots in new system, so be aware you might need to rebuild them.
13:38
<scytheee_>
muppis, thx :)
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14:39
<Spriggan>
Hi, can anyone tellme where i can fin documentation about ldap authentication with ltsp clients?
14:42
<dead_inside>
it uses ssh
14:42
if ssh can auth the ltsp client can auth
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14:46
<||cw>
Spriggan: so, it's standard pam-ldap
14:47
on the main host, not from the chroot
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14:52
<Spriggan>
:( sorry , i don't get it. i installed ubuntu and ltsp, now i want 3 kind of profile, one will be for generic users, another will be for supervising and the other will be for administrators.
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14:54
<Spriggan>
and i all my users use the same password stored in my ldap
14:54
<||cw>
Spriggan: the thin clients don't use any local auth (by default). they connect tot he ltsp server using ssh (by default) to establish the session. you just configure the ltsp server's PAM to auth to whatever you want.
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14:54
<Spriggan>
:o
14:54
thanx
14:55
i got your point
14:57
now , how can i do the personalization thing ?
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15:13
<Spriggan>
||cw, can you please tell me how can i do in order to have a diferent desktop for a diferent user
15:15
<vagrantc>
Spriggan: what do you mean by different desktop?
15:15
i.e. GNOME vs. KDE vs. LXDE ?
15:15
or something else?
15:16
they won't be able to share home directories, if that's what you mean.
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15:19
<Spriggan>
thanx vagrantc, what i want to do is be able to have 2 kind of desktop profile, one for a generic user another for admins
15:19
<vagrantc>
how would you implement that on a non-LTSP environment?
15:20
<Spriggan>
the generic user desktop only will have 2 icons, 1 the firefox icon and 2, the spark client icon
15:20
and no more
15:21
<vagrantc>
there's nothing special about how to do this with LTSP ... do you have a way to do this in a non-LTSP environment? the same technique will apply.
15:26
<Spriggan>
no , i don't habe another way ...
15:26
have *
15:27
i was hopping you will be able to help me :'(
15:28
<vagrantc>
you just want different icons on the different profiles?
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15:30
<vagrantc>
are the homedirs automatically created at login?
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15:45
<||cw>
Spriggan: I think you do it via ~/.xinitrc or ~/.xsession files, but that's going to depend on your distro and if you are using xorg or x11. with ubuntu, I think it will remember whatever your previous choice was at the login screen for each user. I've no idea if there's an easy way to force one
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15:46
<vagrantc>
well, ~/.xinitrc or ~/.xsession will be used for default sessions- but that just selects what applications to run, doesn't necessarily affect the desktop icons.
15:47
also, ldm should respect ~/.dmrc if it's present, although how that actually works varies greatly.
15:47
(different display managers read ~/.dmrc differently, and many recent ones ignore it... wheee)
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16:02
<Spriggan>
thank you very much
16:02
now i have a path to follow
16:03
thank ||cw and vagrantc
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16:42
<vagrantc>
so, debian split out the long package descriptions in the apt repositories into a language-en version ... maybe ltsp-build-client should default to not including long descriptions...
16:43
saves around 19MB of installed disk space, some download time, at the cost of no long descriptions for packages in the chroot.
16:43
(of course, compressed squashfs images will only be slightly smaller, but it's a little bit less to compress)
16:45
<knipwim>
speaking of languages
16:45
thinking of implementing localepurge in the gentoo thin client install
16:46
this removes all language files you don't use
16:46
http://crunchbanglinux.org/wiki/howto/localepurge
16:48
<vagrantc>
oh yeah, debian should do that too.
16:51
<dberkholz>
do it
16:52
<vagrantc>
i think ubuntu handles locales in a way where it maybe doesn't matter.
16:53
although the description for the package in debian includes huge ugly warnings.
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17:57
<scytheee>
hi, after copying the chroot and /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp from edubuntu 11.04 to 12.04, I ran into the busybox on my thin client. what do I have to do that it starts the right way?
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18:00
<scytheee>
hi alkisg, found the problem why my pentium2 clients don't boot with 12.04. Some of them only have 64MB, so the ramdisk is to big. till Ubuntu/Edubuntu 11.04 it works with 64MB ram. but I can't get the old chroot from 11.04 running on 12.04.
18:01
<[GuS]>
Guys, I am installing latest LTSP in gentoo, and fails when compiling the kernel: http://pastebin.com/DyBzAc1v
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18:06
<alkisg>
scytheee: if you remove plymouth from the initramfs, the 12.04 kernel will boot with 64 ram, but the clients will be too slow after they boot, so yeah an older chroot would be wise. But I don't have time for the next couple of days to help; too busy, bbl
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18:11
<Hyperbyte>
scytheee, you could always just install 11.04 somewhere, build a chroot and copy it over.
18:11
Or at least that should work. You won't have the newest LTSP on the 11.04 chroot, but I think it should still be compatible.
18:12
<scytheee>
Hyperbyte, thats what I did, but the chroot from 11.04 running on 12.04 lead the thin client to land in busybox
18:12
<vagrantc>
might even be able to build it on the same server, specifying --dist
18:12
that generally works on debian
18:12
oh, there are a few manual tweaks you'd have to do, since we actually made some more changes there.
18:13
<scytheee>
vagrantc, tried that already, but didn't work, client building exited with an error on ltsp-client-core package
18:13
vagrantc, do you have a link for me? badly, I couldn't find any info about that till now :/
18:14
<vagrantc>
right, you'd need to add an ltsp-build-client plugin that touches /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ltsp_chroot
18:18
<||cw>
the bigger problem than ram I've found with older pc's, especially p2 era, is graphics chipset. I've had 128MB with a TNT or geforce2 card do OK, but the intel onboard stuff of that era is just horrid, even for native installs
18:19
at least, for web browsing and rdp
18:19
and forget about flash
18:21
<scytheee>
||cw the clients with p2 and 64/128mb ran ok with 10.10. they are at a primary school, just for some textworks, simple learning apps and some basic webbrowsing. no flash/java etc. needed
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18:25
<scytheee>
vagrantc, do you have a link where I can read about what tweaks I have to do?
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18:26
<vagrantc>
scytheee: no
18:26
scytheee: that might be the only one, though
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18:29
<vagrantc>
scytheee: download ltsp-server from oneiric, an extract it somewhere (dpkg -x *.deb), and copy the /usr/share/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/common/010-chroot-tagging into /etc/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/
18:29
other issues may come up as needed.
18:31
<scytheee>
vagrantc, will try, thx
18:32
<vagrantc>
http://packages.ubuntu.com/oneiric/ltsp-server
18:36
<scytheee>
vagrantc is /etc/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/ right? cause it doesn't exist. after that, what should I do?
18:38
<knipwim>
scytheee: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/view/2146/server/plugins/ltsp-build-client/common/010-chroot-tagging
18:38
that's the file you need, put it in the dir vagrantc said
18:40
<scytheee>
done, what to do now? build new client with --dist=... ?
18:49
<knipwim>
i would say so, but i'm not a debian use
18:49
r
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19:18
<[GuS]>
Guys, I am installing latest LTSP in gentoo, and fails when compiling the kernel: http://pastebin.com/DyBzAc1v
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19:57
<alkisg>
scytheee: you need to update your nbd-server configuration to use the old style, port-based exports on port 2000 instead of the new style, name-based exports in port 10809
19:58
That's why I suggested a debian testing chroot instead of an older ubuntu one, and of course for more years of support
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20:00
<vagrantc>
debian testing? that could break at any moment :)
20:02
<ogra_>
just because you dont test hard enough :P
20:02
<vagrantc>
hah
20:02
<Lns>
debian testing rarely breaks, even on my main workstation =) of course the disclaimer is there for good reason
20:05
course gnome3 in testing does have its quirks
20:05
(via ltsp anyway)
20:06
<vagrantc>
gnome3 has it's quirks.
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20:07
<Lns>
+1
20:12
<alkisg>
vagrantc: does debian stable support name-based exports?
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20:19
<vagrantc>
alkisg: nope.
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20:23* alkisg still believes debian testing would be the wiser choice then ;)
20:26
<scytheee>
alkisg, the client can't connect to nbd-server on port 2000, I set oldstyle = true in /etc/nbd-server/config and port = 2000 in /etc/nbd-server/config/conf.d/ltsp_i386.conf, then restarted the nbd server
20:29
<vagrantc>
alkisg: why doesn't ubuntu 12.04 work? unsupported hardware?
20:29
<alkisg>
vagrantc: the initramfs with plymouth etc is too big and can't be uncompressed in 64mb ram
20:30
<vagrantc>
ah. why not just disable plymouth?
20:30
<alkisg>
scytheee: you also need to modify /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
20:30
vagrantc: it'll boot but it'll be too slow
20:30
If scytheee disables everything, localapps, localdevices etc, users might even be able to login :P but then openning firefox etc will use local X ram and will be too wlo
20:30
slow
20:31
Unfortunately 12.04 requires 128 ram
20:31
<vagrantc>
but debian works fine?
20:31
<alkisg>
Not sure... I proposed debian when we thought the problem was an uncompatible kernel
20:31
(at that point we also thought all clients had >=128 ram :D)
20:32
scytheee: or you can just get more ram, maybe that's the way to go ;)
20:32
<scytheee>
:D jepp, with debian testing and 64mb ram I got a kernel panic too
20:32
<alkisg>
Really? I had debian booting locally with 48 ram...
20:33
<vagrantc>
what was the error message?
20:33
<scytheee>
stack trace after loading the initrd.img
20:34
<vagrantc>
do you have any with more ram to test?
20:34
<scytheee>
vagrantc, yes, with >=128mb no problems
20:35
<vagrantc>
that's too bad.
20:35
although realistically, less than 128M was kind of questionable already ...
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20:36
<alkisg>
Actually 12.04 required 256 ram before I cut half of the services from RM_SYSTEM_SERVICES list :P
20:37
<scytheee>
vagrantc, in the next months these old machines get hopefully replaced, but till then ...
20:37
<vagrantc>
looks like i've been testing with 256M+ for the last several debian ltsp uploads
20:37
<scytheee>
I still have some machines with dualcore, but 8 old ones are still there
20:38
<alkisg>
And you can't split the ram? No clients have 256 or more?
20:38
<scytheee>
no :/
20:38
<vagrantc>
probably need to set up an older release alongside the newer LTSP release, then.
20:39
and set the old ones to boot to the older setup.
20:39
<scytheee>
vagrantc, yes, that would be good
20:39
<vagrantc>
they're 686-class machines?
20:40
<scytheee>
yes
20:41
<alkisg>
Why not a 10.04 chroot on a 12.04 server?
20:41
<scytheee>
alkisg, that's what I'm trying at the moment :D
20:41
<vagrantc>
if they don't have pae, you can probably use this: http://www.syslinux.org/wiki/index.php/Ifcpu64.c32
20:41
rather than hard-coding them from dhcp
20:42
or http://www.syslinux.org/wiki/index.php/Ifcpu.c32
20:42
if they are missing some cpu flags that others don't have
20:42
<scytheee>
hm, netstat says the nbd-server is not listening on port 2000
20:43
vagrantc I think the only problem is the ram, cpu flags should be ok (I hope)
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20:43
<vagrantc>
scytheee: yes, but you could choose which environment to boot based on processor type
20:43
<scytheee>
ah ok
20:44
<vagrantc>
but the default ones may not be fine-grained enough for what you need.
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21:13
<alkisg>
vagrantc: would you have time on the next couple of days to review/help with the ltsp-server-dnsmasq packaging?
21:15
<vagrantc>
alkisg: today, maybe friday
21:15
alkisg: and a little bit here and there, but not much
21:17
<alkisg>
Today is too soon, I'll prepare something tomorrow or the day after that, and if you don't have time to review it sooner, friday it is, thanks! :)
21:17
<vagrantc>
highvoltage: will you be able to make it to debconf this year?
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21:18
<vagrantc>
highvoltage: your help with ensuring the debian artwork for LDM would be great :)
21:18
alkisg: since debconf is so much farther away this year, think you can make it? :)
21:19
<alkisg>
vagrantc: ...any parts sponsored? :D
21:20* alkisg would love to see Nicaragua
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21:21
<alkisg>
vagrantc: are you attending?
21:21
<vagrantc>
oh yes!
21:23
alkisg: your contributions to LTSP and epoptes would definitely give you some credit :)
21:23* vagrantc schemes to get alkisg in deep
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21:27
<markit>
hi ppl, hi alkisg :) I had a lot of troubles installing 12.04 these days, my previous tests were not wide enough
21:27* alkisg was already planning to dive deep, so any help welcome :D
21:27
<alkisg>
Hi markit
21:27
<markit>
alkisg: is something different in epoptes?
21:27
does not show my clients until they are logghed
21:27
<alkisg>
No, we haven't touched it since the last 12.04/debian testing upload
21:27
<markit>
as far as I remember, I had the thumbail of clients not yet logged
21:27
or do I remember wrong?
21:28
<alkisg>
markit: that probably means that the chroot doesn't have the correct certificate
21:28
<markit>
maybe because I changed the server IP?
21:28
<alkisg>
No, the IP doesn't matter
21:28
<markit>
I've seen a patch that uses "server" instead of IP to avoid this problem
21:28
ok
21:28
is a THIN client solution
21:28
I've no epoptes client in chroot... am I wrong?
21:29
<alkisg>
markit: read the installation page, www.epoptes.org/installation
21:29
It has a section about installing epoptes-client in chroots
21:29
Yup you need it in thin chroots too
21:29
Otherwise you get what you saw, i.e. you can only control them after login
21:30
<markit>
alkisg: ok, my bad, probably I made confusion with my scripts
21:30
was installed but I "improved" it for this installation since some software that was "fat only" went in thin chroot too
21:30
and probably I moved epoptes-client too
21:31
last question: ltsp-update-sshkeys no necessary if I change server IP (same subnet)?
21:31
seem that is working...
21:31
<alkisg>
It's necessary, it won't be in the future
21:31
<markit>
mmm I changed from 192.168.1.10 to 192.168.1.185
21:31
<alkisg>
It might be working if you have LDM_SSHOPTIONS in lts.conf
21:31
With no checking there
21:32
<markit>
no, I've not
21:32* markit scratches his head
21:32
<markit>
btw, bonding config has changed in 12.04
21:32
I had 2 interface with no traffic
21:32
for apparent no reason... bad hours I spent :(
21:33
also resolvconf had forced me to set things different... was lucky to find, at the end, a good post about the issue
21:33
as soon as I've time I will update the wiki (for bonding)
21:34
alkisg: back to polite questions: how are you? everything ok? not seen you on irc since some days
21:34
(you missed me so much ;P)
21:34
<alkisg>
busy busy, will have more time in a week or so
21:34
<markit>
:)
21:35
thanks a lot for your help and ltsp dev, wife is calling, I've to go to sleep asap
21:35
<alkisg>
bb
21:35
<markit>
s/asap/in a snap
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