IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 20 April 2016   (all times are UTC)

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03:58
<rac_>
I LTSP server installation and configuration in ubuntu 16:04, On the LTSP client can not boot, error messages "Time Out TFTP PXE-E32
03:58
can help me ??
04:01
thanks
04:07
<vagrantc>
probably need to configure your DHCP server to tell the client to boot off of the LTSP server
04:07
or use proxydhcp
04:07
!proxydhcp | echo rac_
04:07
<ltsp`>
rac_ proxydhcp: A proxy DHCP server is defined by the PXE specification as a server which sends auxiliary boot information to clients, like the boot filename, tftp server or rootpath, but leaves the task of IP leasing to the normal DHCP server. More info: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ProxyDHCP
04:09
<rac_>
I've setup DHCP Server in LTSP Server, and in Client LTSP already getting the IP DHCP
04:09
error messages "Time Out TFTP PXE-E32
04:10
<vagrantc>
is there another dhcp server on the network?
04:10
such as a router?
04:10
internet modem, etc.
04:10
you really only want one dhcp server
04:11
<rac_>
no other dhcp
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04:12
<rac_>
I really only one dhcp server
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04:29
<rac_>
help ?
04:33
<alkisg>
rac_: are you using ltsp-pnp?
04:33
!ltsp-pnp
04:33
<ltsp`>
ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
04:36
<rac_>
I do not use ltsp-PNP
04:36
<alkisg>
Which tutorial have you used to install ltsp?
04:40
<rac_>
install openssh-server
04:40
install ltsp-server-standalone
04:41
install isc-dhcp-server
04:41
Edit / etc / network / interfaces
04:41
Edit /etc/ltsp/dhcp.conf
04:41
ltsp-build-client
04:42
following configurations have I done
04:42
<alkisg>
OK, so no tutorial involved
04:42
You didn't need to edit /etc/network/interfaces, but no problem
04:43
Check this, it might be an issue with tftp:
04:43
!tftp
04:43
<ltsp`>
tftp: Here's a page to help you troubleshoot TFTP problems in Ubuntu: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/Troubleshooting/TFTP
05:20
<alkisg>
rac_: did it help?
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06:02
<rac_>
I'm trying
06:14
I've tried troubleshooting tutorial but the client can not boot "TFTP Time Out" " https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/Troubleshooting/TFTP
06:15
may be other suggestions
06:15
<alkisg>
rac_: it's a lot easier if you use the ltsp-pnp method
06:15
Is there a reason you prefer the ltsp-build-client method instead?
06:16
<rac_>
you have a tutorial ?
06:16
<alkisg>
!ltsp-pnp
06:16
<ltsp`>
ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
06:16
<rac_>
i will try
06:17
<alkisg>
But you'll need to uninstall isc-dhcp-server etc
06:17
Uninstall tftpd etc
06:17
As it's using dnsmasq instead of those
06:18
rac_: how are you using ltsp? e.g. with linux or with rdp for windows? what are your client specs, cpu/ram?
06:19
And how many clients?
06:20
<rac_>
on Client LTSP : Processor AMD Sempron, Memory 1G, LAN onboard
06:21
on server Intel Corei5-3570, 8G, 500G
06:21
25 Client
06:21
<alkisg>
Yup, do the ltsp-pnp method
06:21
Uninstall whatever you installed so far, isc-dhcp, tftpd etc
06:33
<rac_>
This configuration can be used in ubuntu 16:04 or only in ubuntu 12.04/14.04
06:34
<alkisg>
It can be used in 16.04, yes
06:34
Let me update the page to say that
06:37
<rac_>
ok , i will try
06:55
<alkisg>
I updated the page and added a section about epoptes, I think most ltsp sysadmins will want to have that installed :)
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07:44
<budgee>
alkisg:
07:44
alkisg: - there?
07:44
<alkisg>
budgee: see PM
07:46
budgee: I'm calling you in skype
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08:16
<rac_>
I've tried the configuration, I did not get a dhcp server on the client ltsp
08:17
help mr. alkisg ?
08:19
<alkisg>
rac_: do you have a dhcp server in e.g. a router in your subnet?
08:21
<rac_>
My only server configuration and a second client, directly from the server to the client
08:21
not use router
08:22
<alkisg>
Then set your server IP to 192.168.67.1
08:22
<rac_>
sudo -i
08:22
add-apt-repository --yes ppa:ts.sch.gr
08:22
apt-get update
08:22
apt-get --yes --install-recommends install dnsmasq ltsp-server-standalone ltsp-client ldm-ubuntu-theme ltsp-config dnsmasq
08:22
echo 'IPAPPEND=3' >> /etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf /usr/share/ltsp/update-kernels
08:22
ltsp-update-image --cleanup /
08:23
apt-get install epoptes
08:23
gpasswd -a ${SUDO_USER:-$USER} epoptes
08:23
The following I have already confirmed
08:23
<alkisg>
(11:22:01 πμ) alkisg: Then set your server IP to 192.168.67.1
08:25
<rac_>
auto lo
08:25
iface lo inet loopback
08:25
auto enp3s0
08:25
iface enp3s0 inet static
08:25
address 192.168.60.102
08:26
netmask 255.255.255.0 network 192.168.60.0 broadcast 192.168.60.255 gateway 192.168.60.1
08:26
dns-nameservers 192.168.60.1
08:26
<alkisg>
rac_: 192.168.67.1 is special, it tells dnsmasq to have a dhcp server there
08:27
Change your ip to 192.168.67.1
08:31
<rac_>
so I had to use the IP Address Server 192.168.67.1
08:31
<alkisg>
Yes, because you don't have a router now
08:32
When you'll have a router you'll be able to use any address you want
08:43
<rac_>
i am sorry, ltsp client can not dhcp server
08:43
what i must do ,?
08:43
<alkisg>
(11:27:05 πμ) alkisg: Change your ip to 192.168.67.1
08:46
<rac_>
nano /etc/network/interface
08:46
address 192.168.67.1
08:47
netmask 255.255.255.0 network 192.168.67.0 broadcast 192.168.67.255
08:47
<alkisg>
Nice
08:47
Do you still have isc-dhcp-server installed?
08:47
<rac_>
in /etc/ltsp/dhcp.conf
08:48
<alkisg>
ltsp-pnp is not using isc-dhcp and /etc/ltsp/dhcp.conf
08:48
You must remove those
08:48
<rac_>
i don't install isc-dhcp-server,,
08:49
i don't install isc-dhcp-server
08:49
in /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf What should be changed
08:49
<alkisg>
Nothing, it's not used
08:50
ltsp-pnp uses /etc/dnsmasq.d/ltsp-server-dnsmasq.conf
08:50
And it's automatically generated with `ltsp-config dnsmasq --overwrite`
08:51
What's the output of this on your ltsp server? $ ip -oneline -family inet addr show
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09:01
<rac_>
alkisg : lo inet 127.0.0.1/8 scope host 10\ valid_lft forever preferred-lft forever
09:02
<alkisg>
You don't have ip=192.168.67.1 then?
09:02
<rac_>
enp3s0 inet 192.168.67.1/24 brd 192.168.67.255 scope global enp3s0 valid_lft forever preferred-lft forever
09:03
<alkisg>
Your server doesn't have an internet connection for me to have a look, does it?
09:06
<rac_>
my server is not connected to the Internet, if you want a remote server, I'll try configuring
09:16
I will continue tomorrow again, please help tomorrow, thanks,
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09:51
<budgee>
alkisg: thanks very much. I will share details now.
09:52
Must I follow the standard Ubuntu LTSP guide or do you have a custom guide?
09:55
<alkisg>
!ltsp-pnp
09:55
<ltsp`>
ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
09:55
<alkisg>
budgee: please follow that one, with ubuntu 16.04
09:55
We're using gnome-flashback here, but we've also tested ubuntu mate and lubuntu
09:55
budgee: I'm able to help you remotely from the start, with vnc
09:55
!vnc-dide
09:55
<ltsp`>
vnc-dide: To share your screen with me, run this: sudo apt-get --yes install x11vnc; x11vnc -connect srv1-dide.ioa.sch.gr - this is a reverse connection, it doesn't need port forwarding etc.
09:56
<alkisg>
We can also chat in private, see the tab called "alkisg"
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10:07
<alkisg>
budgee: I think Ubuntu Mate will be the best fit for you. So start with: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mate/daily-live/current/xenial-desktop-i386.iso
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10:56
<BuddyButterfly>
hi
10:56
I have first now installed a ltsp-pnp successfully.
10:56
now I would like to put the homes to nfs.
10:57
Is the following way correct: create separate home dirs on the ltsp server (lets say /mnt/home/user...) then mount these via nfs at boot?
10:58
and create users with that specific home dir.
11:05
or is there some method to mount the homes dynamically?
11:09
<alkisg>
BuddyButterfly: in general, to use nfs you put an FSTAB_xxx line in lts.conf
11:09
If you run `ltsp-config lts.conf` you'll get such an entry, commented out
11:10
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: ah, nice, tnx for the hint.
11:10
<alkisg>
But of course adding network latency for /home isn't very good
11:10
The best thing is to have an ssd disk for /home, in local sata interface
11:10
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: but shareable across multiple systems.
11:10
<alkisg>
/home in ltsp is shared anyway, with sshfs
11:11
And it can be also shared via nfs from the ltsp server itself
11:11
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: just for my understanding. I have a fat client now running. is the user able to install additional packages? What happens then?
11:12
alkisg: I guess the FSTAB lines have same syntax like /etc/fstab?
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11:14
<alkisg>
BuddyButterfly: fat client users can't re-authenticate by default,
11:14
so even if they're sudoers, they can't use `sudo -i` to install packages
11:15
If you use LDM_PASSWORDHASH=yes, then they're able to;
11:15
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: ah, ok. nice for now.
11:15
<alkisg>
if so, then the packages will be installed to RAM, and lost on client reboot
11:15
FSTAB lines do have the same syntax as /etc/fstab, yes
11:15
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: ahh, wow, you know the bits and quirks.....
11:15
tnx!
11:16
<alkisg>
Developers should know the software they write, otherwise it tends to misbehave :P :D
11:18
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: very true!
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11:56
<lary>
hello
11:56
its my first ltsp on opensuse and i have failed with server setup
11:57
can you link me the good working tutorial on how to install ltsp on opensuse 13.2?
11:58
this not works https://en.opensuse.org/Easy-LTSP. after 1 click install easy-ltsp frontend does not have kiwi tab
12:00
sorry for my bad english
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12:31
<Hyperbyte>
lary, hi!
12:32
lary, there's not a lot of people here who know much about LTSP with OpenSUSE... most of us use Debian/Ubuntu. Stick around though, there's some people who can help you I'm sure.
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13:29
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: do I have to rebuild the image when changing the ltsp.conf?
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13:36
<alkisg>
BuddyButterfly: as long as you're talking about /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf, no, you don't need to rebuild it
13:36
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: is it possible to re-generate the image incrementally? I mean without cleaning? Like with a diff method?
13:36
<alkisg>
No, a .diff isn't possible without tricks
13:37
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: ok. tnx.
13:37
<alkisg>
lary: either wait for cyberorg to be around (I think he'll be gone for a few weeks), or try this:
13:37
!ltsp-pnp
13:37
<ltsp`>
ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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13:43
<ziff>
hello
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13:44
<ziff_>
hello
13:45
<alkisg>
Hello
13:45
<ziff_>
i have a problem : thin client cannot boot because of tftp time out. What could be the problem ?
13:45
<alkisg>
!tftp
13:45
<ltsp`>
tftp: Here's a page to help you troubleshoot TFTP problems in Ubuntu: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/Troubleshooting/TFTP
13:47
<ziff_>
ok, il take a look thanks
13:47
<alkisg>
Are you using ltsp-pnp, or the ltsp-build-client method?
13:47
!ltsp-pnp
13:47
<ltsp`>
ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
13:50
<tunapanda>
Hi all, server and clients lost the ability to connect to the internet a couple weeks ago and I cannot figure out why. More details here: http://askubuntu.com/questions/758919/ltsp-server-and-clients-no-longer-able-to-access-internet. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
13:52
<alkisg>
Can you ping 8.8.8.8?
13:52
<tunapanda>
no
13:52
can ping the router from server (but not clients) but cannot ping external IPs
13:53
<alkisg>
...the clients can boot but you can't ping them?!
13:53
Ah, the clients can't ping the router, ok
13:53
<tunapanda>
yes, exactly
13:53
<alkisg>
And you said that this is a single-NIC setup?
13:53
<tunapanda>
yes
13:53
<alkisg>
Which dhcp server is used? isc-dhcp on the ltsp server?
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13:55
<tunapanda>
The server machine is acting as dhcp, but I'm not sure what isc-dhcp is, sorry. How do I check?
13:55
<alkisg>
dpkg -l '*dhcp*' dnsmasq | grep ^ii
13:55
This will give you a list of packages, see if isc-dhcp-server is one of them, or if dnsmasq is installed
13:57
<tunapanda>
we are using isc-dhcp
13:58
<alkisg>
ip route get default 8.8.8.8
13:58
What's the output of that?
13:59
Also, do you have some firewall like ufw activated?
13:59
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: nfs mount fstab works. Is there the possibility to do client specific (not user) mounts?
13:59
<alkisg>
BuddyButterfly: sure, [mac:address] FSTAB_x="yy" in lts.conf
13:59
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: wow, cool.
13:59
I like ltsp more and more ;-)
14:01
<tunapanda>
ii isc-dhcp-client 4.1.ESV-R4-0ubuntu5.9 ISC DHCP client
14:01
ii isc-dhcp-common 4.1.ESV-R4-0ubuntu5.9 common files used by all the isc-dhcp* packages
14:01
ii isc-dhcp-server 4.1.ESV-R4-0ubuntu5.9 ISC DHCP server for automatic IP address assignment
14:01
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: with space between the [] and the fstab?
14:01
<alkisg>
new lines there
14:01
[mac]
14:01
fstab
14:02
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: ah, more a section than prefix.
14:02
count the fstab numbers _x per section or per lts.conf?
14:03
<alkisg>
BuddyButterfly: you can put anything in _x, even text, and it overrides the [default] one
14:03
So maybe just use FSTAB_1=x everywhere
14:03
Or FSTAB_NFS=x
14:03
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: ok, merc.
14:03
i.
14:03
;-)
14:03
<alkisg>
:)
14:03
<tunapanda>
ufw is not enabled
14:04
<alkisg>
tunapanda: see the question about `ip route`
14:04
(04:58:51 μμ) alkisg: ip route get default 8.8.8.8 (04:58:54 μμ) alkisg: What's the output of that?
14:07
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: last section of questions... ;-) I would like to connect to the client via x2go/xrdp. Is it possible like with a "normal" desktop?
14:07
<lary>
Hyperbyte
14:07
alkisg thank you very much
14:07
<alkisg>
lary, you're welcome
14:08
BuddyButterfly: after login, sure. Before login, it's possible with a special lts.conf directive, SCREEN_07="xfreerdp <params> server"
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14:08
<lary>
its important to setup ltsp on opensuse. maby someone have experiance of it
14:09
<alkisg>
lary, feel free to stick around, but cyberorg has been the only person here supporting ltsp on opensuse for years, and he'll be gone for a few weeks more
14:09
So I don't think you'll find anyone before he returns
14:09
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, I'm confused though.
14:09
alkisg, Easy-LTSP?
14:09
<alkisg>
How so? :)
14:09
<Hyperbyte>
I thought it was Kiwi-LTSP.
14:10
<alkisg>
I think easy-ltsp is the lts.conf editing part... not sure
14:10
A google summer of code project, to allow users to edit lts.conf more easily
14:10
<Hyperbyte>
mhmmm
14:10
lary, so maybe you should be installing kiwi-ltsp instead of easy-ltsp
14:11
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: this is only xfreerdp. what about x2go and ssh?
14:12
<alkisg>
No x2go integration, you'd need to do it youself
14:12
<BuddyButterfly>
I would like to let the client behave like a "normal" client othewise...
14:12
<alkisg>
I think there is a SCREEN_07=ssh, but I've never used it
14:12
Well,
14:12
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: ah. ok.
14:12
<alkisg>
*after* normal login, you have all the programs available
14:12
x2go, xfreerdp, ssh ...
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14:13
<alkisg>
I was talking about something extra, the ability to do those before you login
14:13
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: ok, will test this. tnx for info.
14:13
<alkisg>
You're probably not interested in that, so ignore my comments :)
14:13
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: yes, I understood. would be nice to see the ltsp login screen via x2go ;-)
14:13
<alkisg>
You can easily use x2go to login to the ltsp server
14:13
<BuddyButterfly>
or directly login with the user.
14:14
<alkisg>
That's not related to ltsp though, it's normal x2go use
14:14
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: yep, but client ;-)
14:14
<alkisg>
I don't think you want what you're asking...
14:14
You want to netboot an ltsp client and then to use x2go to login to the ltsp server?
14:14
why would you do that?!
14:15
If you want to connect to the ltsp server from a *non ltsp* computer, you can do so normally like in any other installation
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14:15
<alkisg>
For ltsp clients, there's no need for x2go to login to the server, as it's slower than plain xorg on lan
14:16
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: valid point.
14:17* alkisg waves, later...
14:17
<BuddyButterfly>
basically I want to use ltsp for a centrally managed installation but have clients as "independent" VMs.
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14:29
<tunapanda>
@alkisg Sorry having power issues at the school. Trying to resolve.
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17:14
<laro>
Hi
17:15
I'm trying to set up a ltsp server in ubuntu 15.10. It's really new hardware (intel skylake) so I had to install 15.10 in order to get networking working along other things
17:17
I have a triple LAN setup with 2 pcie cards, just trying to make it work with virtualbox machine for now before taking it to my school (I'm a teacher trying to use ltsp in an old computer lab)
17:17
This is what I get if I run dhcp server status
17:18
abr 20 19:06:28 CoordinadorTIC dhcpd[23393]: DHCPDISCOVER from 08:00:27:16:b8:ff via enp4s0 abr 20 19:06:29 CoordinadorTIC dhcpd[23393]: DHCPOFFER on 192.168.100.20 to 08:00:27:16:b8:ff via enp4s0 abr 20 19:06:31 CoordinadorTIC dhcpd[23393]: DHCPDISCOVER from 08:00:27:16:b8:ff via enp4s0 abr 20 19:06:31 CoordinadorTIC dhcpd[23393]: DHCPOFFER on 192.168.100.20 to 08:00:27:16:b8:ff via enp4s
17:18
the virtualbox machine doesnt get to login screen, just says timeout
17:18
FATAL: Coult not read the boot medium! System halted.
17:19
that's after the "Connection timed out (http://ipxe.org/4c106035)" message
17:23
Can somebody help me? Thanks for your time
18:14
I have to leave now but I'll check the log. I would really appreciate if somebody can help.
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18:24
<laro>
hi again
18:55
<vsuojanen>
laro do you have there any tftp timeouts? if it's tftp timeout and fresh ltsp install on the server reboot the server machine and try again
19:02
vbox client network card shoul be bridged + card type set to PCNet
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19:18
<laro>
how can I tell if it's a tftp timeout?
19:19
it looks like a dhcp problem? I only get dhcpdiscover and dhcpoffer
19:20
vbox client is bridged and network card PCNet FAST III Am79C973
19:21
it's a fresh install
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19:22
<laro>
had some trouble with isc dhscp server before, it couldn't create PID, but I sorted that out
19:31
<Hyperbyte>
laro, sounds like an error in your virtualbox config to be honest.
19:31
laro, try booting some live distro from .iso, and boot that
19:32
It's a bit easier to debug I think. You can see if you get a proper dhcp, etc.
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20:05
<laro>
booting live distro in virtualbox?
20:06
<alkisg>
laro, did you follow the ltsp-pnp guide?
20:06
!ltsp-pnp
20:06
<ltsp`>
ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
20:06
<alkisg>
Also, better use 16.04, not 15.10
20:07
<laro>
I haven't try ltsp-pnp, will do!
20:07
<alkisg>
Download mate i386 desktop 16.04 iso, install it to vbox with bridged networking, use the ltsp-pnp guide, done
20:07
<laro>
Why better 16.04?
20:07
just curious
20:07
I pretty much followed this guide for Vbox https://www.thefanclub.co.za/node/31
20:08
<alkisg>
I'm the one developing ltsp for ubuntu, and I'm not using non lts ubuntu versions, so ltsp is pretty much broken there
20:08
I spend the few past months making sure that 16.04 works fine though
20:08
And, it's to be released in 2 days anyway... it's not beta now
20:08
<laro>
oh that's great, good job man
20:09
<alkisg>
(ubuntu 12.04, 14.04 and 16.04 are "LTS", long term support, versions)
20:09
<laro>
16.04 is next lts?
20:09
<alkisg>
Yes
20:09
So, start with this: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mate/daily-live/current/xenial-desktop-i386.iso
20:10
<laro>
so I install mate i386 desktop instead of the ubuntu 15.10 I have right now?
20:10
<alkisg>
Right, delete you existing vm
20:10
Make another, in bridged networking
20:10
<laro>
oh ok so no need to actually format my hd?
20:10
just the VM
20:10
<alkisg>
No no, just the vm
20:10
<laro>
ok
20:11
<alkisg>
dhcp will be done by your router, and proxydhcp by the vm
20:12
<laro>
ok I run a VM booting that ISO you just gave me and then follow ltsp-pnp ?
20:12
with another vm
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20:13
<alkisg>
Yup
20:13
btw, how much ram do your clients have? the oldest ones?
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20:39
<laro>
they are all Pentium 4s with 512MB
20:40
If I recall correctly, could be 256
20:40
I built a i7 6700k with 2 SSDs and 16GB RAM as a server
20:41
2 SSDs hoping to make a RAID, didn't have luck with UEFI btw, I'll try to fix that later on
20:43
did you ask because they could be fat clients?
20:45
Ok switching to ubuntu now, I'll be back in a minute
20:45
Thanks a lot
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21:52
<carlos_cerna>
As I can improve the speed of customers, for example to see the page www.youtube.com customer, the team start to get slow.
21:54
This is the place for support of LTSP. Ask your question and hang around for an answer. Check IRC logs at http://irclogs.ltsp.org
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22:37
<Peasant65>
Hey, can someone pleas help me? I´m completely new to ltsp and i can´t login using my fat client
22:38
I´m on ubuntu 14.04 server arch 64bit client arch 32 bit ubuntu-desktop
22:38
the login manager just seems to respawn and nothing hapens
22:39
When i switch over to a tty on the fat client it also fails to login
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