IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 3 March 2014   (all times are UTC)

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04:59
<fkeith>
question i have a client who needs a setup for 200 thinclient workstations
05:00
planing to use n computing devices
05:00
does ubuntu support 200 clients
05:00
<vagrantc>
might be best to explore ltsp fatclients
05:01
you'd need quite a few servers to load-balance that many users
05:01
wit han ltsp thinclient
05:02
<fkeith>
what if i install a server with more ram
05:04
if not how fo i go about setting up load balancing
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05:25* alkisg wonders how much such a solution costs, with 200 n-computing devices... and, which ones?
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06:12
<vagrantc>
fkeith: well, each client login maybe requires 256-1GB of server ram...
06:13
fkeith: and you'll probably want a processor core for each 5 users, at least...
06:13
so we're talking 50-200GB of ram
06:14
<gdi2k>
I'm noticing some low-cost chromeboxes becoming available like this: http://www.extremetech.com/computing/176123-asus-chromebox-for-just-180-you-can-have-a-fanless-fairly-useless-chrome-os-desktop-pc - it's $180, small, fanless and scores 1500ish on cpubenchmark.net. What are the chances of being being able to bypass the chrome stuff and (ab)use it as an ltsp fat client?
06:15
<alkisg1>
It should just work... :)
06:17* alkisg1 wonders if he could get those for 200€ here...
06:18
<vagrantc>
fairly useless... what marketing sense...
06:18
fkeith: and about 40 cores...
06:18
fkeith: so really, look into fatclients
06:18
fkeith: or at least some way of dividing the users/thin-clients across multiple servers.
06:20* vagrantc wonders how many clients a single gigabit ethernet can realistically serve
06:21
<gdi2k>
what stops you from adding multiple NICs to a single server - that to me seems to be the bottleneck, and using the dnsmasq method, it would seem you can have fat clients boot from specific server interfaces
06:21
<vagrantc>
well, sure, you can do bonded interfaces or split across multiple interfaces...
06:22
but how many clients realistically can go to each?
06:22
<alkisg1>
If we support dmcache or something in ltsp, we could run hundreds of clients on a single nic... :)
06:23
The only bottleneck then would be /home
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06:23
<alkisg1>
ceph could help there, if the users usually used the same pc each time...
06:26
<gdi2k>
by the way, those chromebooks have 16gb of internal storage (presumably ssd based) - that may help?
06:26
<alkisg1>
Sure, for both root and home
06:27
If we used local storage, then the network bandwidth would be extremely lower
06:27
(bandwidth needs)
06:27
...for swap too
06:27
For now, we support local swap and local squashfs image
06:27
!local-boot
06:27
<ltsp`>
local-boot: If you want LTSP fat clients on a low-speed network, you can put i386.img on e.g. C:\Boot\LTSP\i386.img and use this command line in pxelinux.cfg: APPEND ro initrd=ltsp/i386/initrd.img init=/sbin/init-ltsp root=/dev/sda1 rootflags=ro loop=/Boot/LTSP/i386.img; IPAPPEND 3
06:28
<alkisg1>
But it's a pain to have to copy the image after each ltsp-update-image, even if one can do it with a single click from epoptes
06:28
<gdi2k>
possible with epoptes?
06:29
<alkisg1>
So with dmcache/bcache/* for root, and ceph for /home, one could serve many many clients with low-speed networking...
06:29
Yes you can execute commands to the clients from epoptes, e.g. sudo dd /dev/nbd0 /mnt/Boot/LTSP/i386.img
06:29
<gdi2k>
ah ok, yes, got it
06:30* alkisg1 waves
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09:08
<RL600>
Is it possible to game through a "terminal server" or is it a waste of time
09:11
<elias_a>
RL600: Depends on what you mean by gaming.
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09:22
<RL600>
Lets say battlefield 4 on medium settings is that possible (what would it cost)
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09:42
<alkisg>
With ltsp fat clients, it's the same as if it were running locally
09:42
So sure, gaming and everything is possible
09:42
!fatclients
09:42
<ltsp`>
fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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14:02
<elmeri>
.
14:03
<alkisg>
!
14:04
<elmeri>
hi
14:04
<alkisg>
Hello
14:04
<elmeri>
i woud need some help with ltsp-pnp....
14:04
<alkisg>
!ask
14:04
<ltsp`>
ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
14:05
<elmeri>
i did update server this morning and run ltsp-update-image --cleanup / after that some clients gets busybox
14:06
<alkisg>
Some of them still work fine?
14:07
<elmeri>
yes.... but just few of them the server is 12.04 ubuntu
14:07
<alkisg>
dpkg-query -W ltsp-client
14:07
What's the output of that?
14:08
<elmeri>
very long list
14:08
<alkisg>
ltsp-client 5.5.1~r2555+p1204+201402271256~ubuntu14.04.1
14:08
That?
14:09
<elmeri>
no... just xxxxxxxx12.04.1
14:10
<alkisg>
Is it 5.5.1?
14:10
<elmeri>
yes
14:11
<alkisg>
On the client busybox, run this: ip addr show
14:11
Does it mention an IP address?
14:14
<elmeri>
no there is no ip.... it says link/ether "mac brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
14:15
<alkisg>
Can I have a look at your server via vnc? sudo apt-get install x11vnc; x11vnc -connect alkisg.dyndns.org
14:15
I did some changes in udhcp to fix the problem you're seeing, so it's weird that you still have it
14:16
<elmeri>
ok
14:18
what do u need to get there ?
14:18
<alkisg>
(04:15:00 μμ) alkisg: Can I have a look at your server via vnc? sudo apt-get install x11vnc; x11vnc -connect alkisg.dyndns.org
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14:22
<alkisg>
elmeri: if the clients that did have the problem, now boot ok, then udhcp still has unresolved issues... :-/
14:22
Do they boot now?
14:23
<elmeri>
no still busybox
14:23
<alkisg>
OK that's a good thing :)
14:24
<elias_a>
elmeri: I am sorry you have problems but it is nice to see new Finns on this channel ;-)
14:25
<alkisg>
Still busybox?
14:25
<elmeri>
yes still busybox
14:26
<alkisg>
elmeri: and `ip addr show` still shows no IP?
14:27
<elmeri>
no ip just ff:ff.....
14:27
<alkisg>
run this: ipconfig eth0
14:27
Did it mention an ip now?
14:28
<elmeri>
yes now there is right ip address
14:29
<alkisg>
elmeri: reboot client...
14:30
Meh
14:30
I can't find a reliable way to get the interfaces up :(
14:30
<elmeri>
yes :) it has gui to login!
14:31
<alkisg>
Yes because I put "sleep" there
14:31
But I shouldn't have to use sleep :-/
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14:31
<alkisg>
elmeri: do you have 10-15 minutes to find some good code to fix this?
14:32
I.e. to help me test, because that problem doesn't happen here with my clients...
14:32
<elmeri>
yes i do have 15min....
14:32
<alkisg>
I just need you to report when it's working and when it's not
14:32
Nice...
14:32
elmeri: do you have a mobile phone with which you could take photos and upload them to e.g. imagebin.org?
14:33
from the client screen...
14:33
<elmeri>
yes i do have
14:33
<alkisg>
Nice
14:35
elmeri: reboot client
14:35
(no need for a photo yet...)
14:35
<elmeri>
ok.. bootinh
14:36
busybox again
14:38
<alkisg>
elmeri: reboot client, and wait for the message that says "take a picture now"
14:38
<elmeri>
ok
14:38
<alkisg>
You have 40 seconds then to take a picture :)
14:38
<elias_a>
Wow - this is interesting!
14:39
<alkisg>
(also check if the client booted or not :))
14:40
<elmeri>
i didnt see the text.... it went to busybox in 10 seconds
14:41
<alkisg>
Did you see a message about "no network interfaces are up" etc?
14:41
Or, no network interfaces found?
14:42
<elmeri>
yes that message is on screen right now
14:42
<alkisg>
Which one of those 2 messages?
14:42
No found?
14:42
Or no interfaces are up?
14:42
<elmeri>
no network interfaces are up
14:43
<alkisg>
type "exit" on busybox
14:43
And check if you now got the "take a picture" message
14:44
<elmeri>
yes now i have pictre from screen....
14:45
<alkisg>
elmeri: reboot the client again
14:45
<elmeri>
ok
14:46
<alkisg>
Meh
14:46
I had 4 seconds maximum wait from the time of `ip link up` to the time that the link is actually up
14:46
<elmeri>
and i have login screen
14:46
<alkisg>
...and in your system, it's too little!!!
14:46
OK I'll increase that to 10 seconds
14:46
<elmeri>
ok
14:46
old machines....
14:46
<alkisg>
elmeri: can you run this on the client?
14:46
1) login
14:46
2) ltsp-localapps xterm
14:47
3) on the xterm that got opened:
14:47
lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 Ethernet
14:47
...and paste the result here or in pastebin.com
14:47
<elmeri>
i try
14:47
<alkisg>
Also please mention your cpu, you can see it with `cat /proc/cpuinfo`
14:48
<elmeri>
ok
14:48
<alkisg>
(on the xterm again on the client)
14:48
<elmeri>
ok...
14:50
<alkisg>
Here's the fix, in case you were wondering: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/revision/2558/client/Debian/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-premount/udhcp
14:51
I just committed it to the ltsp code... thanks
14:57
<elmeri>
pastebin.com/9VLGigBJ
14:57
and thanks!!!
15:00
<alkisg>
You're welcome :)
15:00
Ethernet controller [0200]: Broadcom Corporation NetXtreme BCM5751 Gigabit Ethernet PCI Express [14e4:1677] (rev 01)
15:00
Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company DC7100 SFF(DX878AV) [103c:3006]
15:00
Kernel driver in use: tg3
15:00
model name      : Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz
15:01
(just to keep them here in the irclogs in case they're ever needed)
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15:11
<elias_a>
alkisg: That was nice to follow :)
15:11
<alkisg>
:)
15:12
<elias_a>
My grandmom comes from the town elmeri works in :)
15:12
So a double on behalf of the Finns ;-)
15:12
<alkisg>
Fortunately, people are not too afraid to give vnc access to their servers
15:12
It would take ages without it...
15:14
<elias_a>
:D
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17:42
<alkisg>
!ipconfig
17:42
<ltsp`>
ipconfig: to fake a DHCP request from your LTSP server, e.g. to check if another DHCP server is present: sudo /usr/lib/klibc/bin/ipconfig -n eth0
17:42
<alkisg>
!learn ipconfig-readme as http://git.kernel.org/cgit/libs/klibc/klibc.git/tree/usr/kinit/ipconfig/README.ipconfig
17:42
<ltsp`>
The operation succeeded.
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