IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 1 September 2013   (all times are UTC)

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01:48
<Enslaver>
Anyone alive?
02:49* vagrantc waves
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03:13
<Enslaver>
ok
03:13
maybe we could get others input
03:13
<vagrantc>
often a good thing :)
03:13
<Enslaver>
true
03:14
if anyone else is alive vagrant and i were discussing the idea of incorporating ltsp into cluster management software as a kit, such as xCAT
03:14
Whats the status on ldm / authentication alternatives to the server
03:14
libpam_ssh was on the horizion last i heard, whats the status on that
03:14
<vagrantc>
still in the early phases of throwing out LDM
03:15
libpam_sshauth works as a proof of concept with lightdm, GDM3 and KDM last i tried it.
03:15
still missing a lot of features, but you can log in with it and start a remote session
03:16
<Enslaver>
One thing i've been playing with a lot is VirtualGL, combining the speeds of the libturbo compression for use over a thin client
03:16
libjpeg_turbo
03:16
which allows for quick 2D and even 3D graphics
03:17
<vagrantc>
that sounds very interesting, saw a few posts on ltsp-discuss about that
03:17
<Enslaver>
it basically pre-loads a 'faker' library on the client side
03:18
Theres commerical applications that are developed that do exacly that for 3D modeling and server side 3d rendering, nothing opensource as i've seen
03:18
but they are just calling the VirtualGL libraries
03:20
i'm gonna try a proof of concept remote desktop using virtualGL in the xCAT kit
03:20
<vagrantc>
sounded like someone already proof-of-concept worked on virtualgl with LTSP, according to the mailing list
03:21
<Enslaver>
hmm lemme go read that
03:22
it shouldnt be difficult, really it just requires you to LD_PRELOAD the lib before calling any X applications
03:22
<vagrantc>
a thread started in jun, one comment in july, and some noise early august
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03:24
<Enslaver>
so basically they are saying to just run vglrun before it loads LDM
03:25
or have vglrun load ldm
03:25
but LDM will need to be coded to call vglrun before it hands off the desktop
03:29
<vagrantc>
the post by Juan Ignacio Saitua on july 1st seems to use an ldm hook and a server-side hook... but seems like it should be possible just from the ldm hook, since the server side hook juts sets a variable
03:30
unless something cleans out the LD_PRELOAD variable...
03:32
<Enslaver>
something as in ssh?
03:33
<vagrantc>
ssh, or in the Xsession script
03:33
<Enslaver>
ltsp's xsession script?
03:34
<vagrantc>
no, /etc/X11/Xsession (which varies by distro)
03:34
i think there's code in ldminfod to detect the appropriate script
03:37
and the ldm screen.d script, in case ldminfod doesn't return one, it assumes it's the same as the client...
03:37
or maybe it's fancier than that...
03:47
Enslaver: looks like xcat isn't in debian yet, so that'd be one blocker from my perspective...
03:47
unless it's packaged under other names...
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03:50
<Enslaver>
Ive been looking for cluster management software that is
03:51
But with xcat i dont see any reason why it wouldnt work with debian
03:52
<vagrantc>
it does sound like a fairly sizeable codebase with lots of parts, so it might be hard to get *into* Debian, which is different than working *with* Debian.
03:53
currently, LTSP on Debian requires no dependencies outside of Debian
03:54
it's actually the work of LTSP5 that made that possible, before it had to be distributed outside of Debian
03:55
since LTSP 4 and earlier were essentially their own distro, no major distribution was willing to incorporate it
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04:13
<Enslaver>
Whats LTSP GPL license version GPLv2 or 3?
04:15
<vagrantc>
v2
04:16
or v2+
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04:46
<epoptes_user3>
hi can anyone help me with epoptes
04:47
I would like to automatically save screen images from a client at a regular intervals through epoptes
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05:04
<Enslaver>
vagrantc: looks like xCAT does support debian
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05:07
<vagrantc>
Enslaver: wonder how big a project it would be to integrate into Debian...
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05:12
<Enslaver>
vagrantc: http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/xcat/index.php?title=DebianHowto
05:12
<khaos>
Hey there can anyone help me with a login issue? Ubuntu 12.04 x64 ---- Fat Client x64 --- WinBind. I've been able to login just fine with all domain users but starting today I'm getting "No Response From Server, Restarting"
05:13
<Enslaver>
vagrantc: its a bit old, 2.5.0, xcat 2.8.2 is out
05:13
<khaos>
Local users that were created on the server are able to login without an issue
05:13
<Enslaver>
nm http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/xcat/index.php?title=Ubuntu_Quick_Start
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05:33
<khaos>
Anyone have any ideas?
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05:34
<khaos>
I have already tried to update the sshkeys and image. PassAuth is on in ssh conf. Still no luck
05:42
<vagrantc>
khaos: if local users are able to log in, it's not the ssh keys between it and the server...
05:42
khaos: are you able to ssh to the server as the winbind users?
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07:14
<MonkWitDaFunk>
Hi #ltsp, can the project be applied to a system as a samba server?
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12:22
<alkisg>
!socat
12:22
<ltsp>
socat: One way to share a console with a remote person is: [local pc] forward port 5500; apt-get install socat; socat tcp-listen:5500,keepalive=1 stdio,raw,echo=0 [remote pc] apt-get install socat screen; socat SYSTEM:"sleep 1; exec screen -xRR ra",pty,stderr tcp:REMOTE-IP:5500 & screen -l -S ra
12:23
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: ^
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13:08
<bennabiy>
alkisg or Vagrantc: Do you know which scripts specifically use the --arch variable when generating the client image?
13:08
I realized why my build was busyboxing I think
13:09* alkisg doesn't use ltsp-build-client at all and uses ltsp-pnp instead...
13:09
<alkisg>
So I haven't looked at its internals in a long time
13:11
<bennabiy>
alkisg: that is mostly for fat clients, right?
13:11
!ltsp-pnp
13:11
<ltsp>
ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
13:11
<alkisg>
For fat or for fat + thin
13:11
...or for localapps
13:11
If it's a true thin client lab, then it's not worth it to use ltsp-pnp
13:12
<bennabiy>
So basically, you set your server up as your model, and then a fat client image is made for that system and sent to the systems?
13:13
Does it do anything to the server from that point, like a common home, or is it all
13:13
<alkisg>
Yes, the /opt/ltsp/i386.img image is built from the server / disk instead of using ltsp-build-client
13:13
<bennabiy>
on the local client from that point?
13:13
<alkisg>
Other than that part, it's normal LTSP
13:13
<bennabiy>
ahh
13:13
<alkisg>
So ldm, sshfs etc etc
13:14
<bennabiy>
so it still uses the server for actual processing etc, except local apps support ?
13:14
<alkisg>
Thin clients use the server, fat clients and localapps use local cpu
13:15
<bennabiy>
but still get their home directories from the server through NBD?
13:15
<alkisg>
Home never uses NBD
13:15
NBD is for the root fs
13:15
Home in LTSP uses sshfs or nfs
13:16
<bennabiy>
Yes
13:16
Sorry, that is what I meant
13:17
while I have you here, I am having an issue mounting a usb HD on a thinclient
13:18* alkisg doesn't use ltspfs either :)
13:18
<bennabiy>
it mounts fine on the server, but when I connect it to the client, it will mount to the local client ( checked through root shell) but will not ...
13:18
bah!
13:22
question: If I change --base when generating a client image, will it affect the other client images, or anything local to that client? Basically, if I use --base to change where the image is placed, so it does not overwrite a current version, and then move it into place, will it be defunct because something is hard referenced to --base location?
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13:48
<faf>
hi. Whats the status on running Edubuntu 13.04 with only one nic, like with proxydhcp, but using isc-dhcp-server instead?
13:49
<alkisg>
faf: proxy means that another dhcp server is used
13:49
isc-dhcp doesn't support proxy
13:49
It does support 1-nic setups with the ltsp server being the dhcp server
13:49
And of course 1-nic setups with an external but configurable dhcp server are also supported, without the need of isc-dhcp
13:52
<faf>
yeah, i have an external dhcp which I would like to use, but I would not touch it at all. I have tried with a clean system and installed proxydhcp manually, which worked nice, but now I'm testing edubuntu 13.04 and maybe there was a workaround so that I didnt have to use the proxydhcp.
13:52
I have a two-nic setup in the box
13:54
maybe I could add a next-server in my current dhcp?
13:55
<Zaphoid>
I typicailly have DHCP on a different server then my tftp setup, and next-server works fine, there
13:55
<alkisg>
Right, next-server, boot filename, and root path
13:56
<Zaphoid>
next-server x.x.x.x;
13:56
filename "/ltsp/amd64/pxelinux.0";
13:56
Adjust as necessary.
13:56
<alkisg>
root path is also needed in many cases
13:57
option root-path "/opt/ltsp/i386";
13:58
<Zaphoid>
I've not used thin clients with LTSP, which may make a difference for that option.
13:58
<alkisg>
Some PXE clients just won't accept the DHCP request if it doesn't contain root path
13:58
...and NBD and NFS use it as well
13:58
<Zaphoid>
Ah, gotchya. Guess I've been lucky, then.
13:58
<alkisg>
*the DHCP offer...
13:59
<Zaphoid>
Yes. Hrmm. Might explain an issue I had with one piece of hardware. I'll have to try that out on Tuesday.
14:00
<faf>
Trying it now
14:00
<alkisg>
faf: do remove isc-dhcp-server from your ltsp server
14:02
<faf>
and install proxyDHCP instead?
14:02
<alkisg>
Nothing, just configure your external dhcp server
14:02
You have 2 options,
14:02
1) configure your external dhcp,
14:02
2) install proxydhcp
14:03
In both options, you remove isc-dhcp-server
14:03
<faf>
the next server was on, but lloks like im getting a "tftp open timeout", I will try with the proxy setup
14:03
ok...thx...will test it
14:03
<alkisg>
next-server on your *external* dhcp server
14:03
Not on the ltsp server
14:04
The LTSP server must not have isc-dhcp-server installed
14:04
<faf>
yes of course :)
14:04
<bennabiy>
Does --base do anything other than set the initial build location of the client image?
14:05
<faf>
does this still apply?? - that I need to purge the standalone?: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ProxyDHCP
14:06
<alkisg>
http://packages.ubuntu.com/raring/ltsp-server-standalone
14:06
depends isc-dhcp-server or dnsmasq
14:07
So, if you don't have one of those 2, you can't have -standalone, you need to remove that as well
14:07
<bennabiy>
I am doing my build of a test mint 15 image ( it is mostly a hybrid ubuntu 13.04 image, but built natively on Mint)
14:07
<faf>
ok, i'll go with dnsmasq
14:08
<bennabiy>
without having to do a --dist=(ubuntudist)
14:09
<faf>
actually just tired a mint-mate build, but failed
14:09
but I will try with the dnsmasq and remove the ics.dhcp-server
14:09
thx
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14:12
<bennabiy>
Hey vagrantc: I am doing a revised build
14:12
no --dist argument
14:13
I had a dream and realized why my first one busyboxed
14:13
<vagrantc>
heh
14:13
probably nothing mint-specific
14:14
<bennabiy>
from what you had said, the --arch just names the directory it stores the chroot in, but I realized that it also determines the packages downloaded... so there are not packages with -mint at the end... or whatever else I could call them arch
14:15
so I am using --base to change where the client is built, and then going to try moving the images into place from there
14:15
so that I do not overwrite my current working version
14:15
<vagrantc>
i would strongly recommend against --base
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14:16
<bennabiy>
I could not find out if it made changes on a level that affected the rest of the ltsp? Does it change the tftp or dhcp server settings?
14:16
<vagrantc>
using --base will still break your currently working version
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14:16
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: what do you mean by "packages with -mint at the end" ?
14:17
bennabiy: instead of using --base use --chroot i386-mint
14:17
<bennabiy>
ahh, that makes sense. You had said to use --arch to rename the files
14:18
<vagrantc>
i don't believe i did. :P
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14:19
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: so use --arch i386 --chroot i386-mint (or amd64)
14:20
<bennabiy>
02:26:39 PM - vagrantc: bennabiy: --arch just basically sts the chroot name
14:20
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: using base will wipe out your other kernels when you run ltsp-update-kernels
14:21
bennabiy: i might have meant to say --chroot
14:21
<bennabiy>
You did say --chroot before, but then you said --arch
14:21
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: sorry for the confusion
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14:22
<bennabiy>
vagrantc: How will --base wipe out my other installs, if I set the base to a different location?
14:22
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: when you run ltsp-update-kernels, it will wipe out the tftp dirs
14:23
bennabiy: running ltsp-update-kernels without the --base will fix it again, but it's *so* much simpler to just use --chroot
14:23
<bennabiy>
yes
14:24
I see... I will do that next time... this build is almost done.
14:25
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: you could also just move aside the working version in /opt/ltsp and run without --chroot ... i.e. mv /opt/ltsp/i386 /opt/ltsp/i386-works
14:25
<bennabiy>
One thing, we need a decent mint plymouth for the client... I customized mine to be a MATE subliminal ( Drink MATE)
14:25
True.
14:25
i thought of that, but did not want to disrupt my current clients, if one needed to reboot
14:25
<vagrantc>
and then move it back when you're done ...
14:26
<bennabiy>
Doesn't LTSP not even touch the folder? Doesn't it only deal with the .img file?
14:26
<vagrantc>
it builds the image from the chroot
14:26
<bennabiy>
yes, but as far as for booting the clients
14:26
<vagrantc>
with NBD, yes. with NFS, it uses the chroot.
14:26
<bennabiy>
I use NBD
14:27
<vagrantc>
recent versions can use either pretty much interchangeably.
14:27
<bennabiy>
ok... trying to boot my first client
14:29
Hmm. It did not seem to change my tftp settings
14:29
when I used --base
14:29
I loaded up my current working i386 image by default
14:32
it did not change the /etc/ltsp/dhcp.conf which tells where to pull the tftp root
14:34
hmm, I am not having much success getting the dhcp server to issue the right path to tftp server
14:36
Isn't it dhcp.conf that passes the info to tftp server?
14:38
bah, I figured it out..
14:40
hmmm maybe not
14:40
vagrantc: you there?
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14:50
<bennabiy>
I am rebuilding with --chroot
14:51
What is the best way to pick and choose from different images? Couldn't I make a simple menu from tftp, and then have a choice of which one loads, defaulting to the known good if nothing is chosen? I thought I had set that up before, but could not remember how to get the changes to stick in the config
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15:02
<bennabiy>
did I scare everyone off?
15:18
Ok, it is official.. it worked. Now it is just a matter of updating the plymouth, and the ldm login screen default
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15:19
<bennabiy>
!seen ltsp
15:19
<ltsp>
ltsp was last seen in #ltsp 8 weeks, 5 days, 23 hours, 34 minutes, and 14 seconds ago: <ltsp> thin client doesn't have this port open
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15:34
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: sounds like you figured it out for yourself? :)
15:35
<bennabiy>
no, I just renamed the files and booted to the i386.img (which was the one I just built)
15:35
I did not make the menu
15:35
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: using --base will not change your tftp settings, but it will delete kernels from the TFTP dirs that aren't present in the corresponding ltsp dirs.
15:36
i reworked the pxelinux menu system a bit, but it doesn't support multiple chroots yet.
15:36
it isn't too hard to manually add it, though.
15:36
<bennabiy>
I have gotten it to, by doing some ../ redirection to other kernels
15:37
using the i386 as the base for the menu, and then loading from there the other kernels
15:37
<vagrantc>
configure dhcp to point the filename to "/pxelinux.0" rather than "/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0" and then configure the menus however you want in <tftpdir>/pxelinux.cfg
15:37
<bennabiy>
How can I commit my changes somewhere that they can be used?
15:37
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: the changes to the dirs?
15:37
bennabiy: to support mint?
15:37
<bennabiy>
yes
15:38
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: create a branch on launchpad and ask for it to be merged
15:38
<bennabiy>
Do I need to upload all my files, or only the changed ones?
15:38
I downloaded the full ltsp branch
15:39
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: commit your changes to the branch, upload the branch to launchpad, and there's a way to submit a merge request
15:40
<bennabiy>
what command do I use to do that? I know I have bzr registered with my launchpad ID
15:44
vagrantc: Is there an effective visual map of the location of files by name in the branch?
15:45
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: client/share gets installed with ltsp-client* packages /usr/share, server/share gets installed in ltsp-server's /usr/share
15:46
bennabiy: you just made changes to the ltsp-build-client plugins?
15:46
<bennabiy>
so to update my LinuxMint folder to the source, it would go in server/share
15:46
yes, and a link in debootconf
15:46
<vagrantc>
debootconf?
15:46
deboostrap?
15:47
<bennabiy>
yes, sorry, I am not feeling the greatest today... brain is only half here
15:47
<vagrantc>
it would be best to avoid requiring that... i thought we came up with a better way to do thhat?
15:47
<bennabiy>
that is right...
15:47
<vagrantc>
i.e. build the ubuntu chroot with debootstrap, and then add in the linuxmint stuff afterwards
15:48
<bennabiy>
refer to my previous comment.
15:48* vagrantc forgets how to push to launchpad
15:48
<vagrantc>
i've done it so rarely...
15:48
<bennabiy>
I made a note of that somewhere, but I guess that only helps if you look at your notes
15:48
brb
15:48
<vagrantc>
or rather, new branches ...
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15:51
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: https://help.launchpad.net/Code/UploadingABranch
15:52
bennabiy: so probably: bzr push lp:~bennabiy/ltsp/ltsp-mint
15:55
<bennabiy>
thanks!
15:55
Let me make my changes, then I will let you know when it is pushed up. Should I include the audio fix in my push as well?
15:56
<vagrantc>
no, make a separate branch for each feature/fix, typically.
15:57
not that i'm typically very good at that myself... :)
16:02
<bennabiy>
I guess that is my question. I downloaded the whole ltsp trunk, but should I have the trunk as my upload with my changes, or should it only have what is modified from the trunk?
16:02
or will the system sort that out?
16:06
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: you won't be uploading to ltsp directly yet, just uploading your own branches, and we'll merge them in
16:07
bennabiy: so i would keep a working branch from ltsp trunk, and then one for mint, and one for whatever other fixes you might propose
16:08
bennabiy: i.e. bzr branch lp:ltsp ; bzr branch ltsp ltsp-mint ; bzr branch ltsp ltsp-FEATUREFIXFOO
16:10
bennabiy: and then bzr push lp:~user/ltsp/ltsp-mint ; bzr push lp:~user/ltsp/ltsp-FEATUREFIXFOO ; etc...
16:11
<bennabiy>
I think I understand... how do I pull down an updated version of the ltsp trunk?
16:12
so basically, I need to set up a working folder on my system, commit the changes to that, and then sync it to the launchpad repo?
16:12
<vagrantc>
Enslaver: did your rhel merge request ever make it in? https://code.launchpad.net/~enslaver-l/ltsp/ltsp-rhel/+merge/151353
16:13
bennabiy: cd ltsp ; bzr pull
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16:19
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: and then in the ltsp-mint dir, you'd want to copy files into their appropriate places, and bzr add NEWFILES ; bzr commit ; bzr push lp:~bennabiy/ltsp/ltsp-mint
16:20
bennabiy: bzr status is helpful to make sure you've got everything you want to commit
16:21
might want to liberally use bzr status before commit and/or push
16:23
<bennabiy>
ok
16:25
Vagrantc: To recap - create the structure for where files go, but only place in the structure the files which I am changing/adding and then once I make sure that the files are the right ones through bzr status, commit them and push them up to my branch
16:25
in relation to the trunk structure
16:27
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: this link might also be helpful: http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/latest/en/mini-tutorial/index.html
16:30
bennabiy: that sounds about right
16:32
<bennabiy>
I found that same tutorial.. I am going over it now.. but time for lunch.. back in a bit
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17:05
<bennabiy>
back
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17:33
<bennabiy>
alksig: question about using bzr...
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18:16
<bennabiy>
vagrantc: if I do a bzr add ltsp-mint (which is a folder) would it grab whatever is within that folder automatically?
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18:34
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: yes...
18:34
bennabiy: but the folder should be named after what lsb_releas returns
18:34
lsb_release
18:34
lsb_release --id --short
18:36
<bennabiy>
I am still trying to wrap my mind around where to do my edits.
18:37
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: you've got a bzr branch from launchpad, right?
18:37
<bennabiy>
Basically, I pulled down the lp:ltsp and have that on my drive.
18:37
yes
18:37
<vagrantc>
ok, then make a fork of that branch: bzr branch ltsp ltsp-mint
18:37
bennabiy: then do your edits inside ltsp-mint
18:38
and then do your add, commit, etc. in there.
18:38
<bennabiy>
vagrantc: wouldn't that in effect make me push a lot of duplicate content up to the launchpad when I commit and push?
18:39
or is it good that it would be that way?
18:40
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: i would guess launchpad is configured to share common commits between branches.
18:40
buut maybe not.
18:40
<bennabiy>
I guess it would really only matter when it comes to merging
18:41
<vagrantc>
it would only matter with the time you spend pushing a new branch
18:41
<bennabiy>
I just made my fork, I will make my changes, commit and then push
18:41
<vagrantc>
good :)
18:41
<bennabiy>
I will let you know when I am done so you can let me know if I did it all wrong
18:43
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: better to do it wrong and make progress, it's generally easy enough to fix :)
18:44
<bennabiy>
Now, I only include support in it back to the LTS
18:44
does that seem good?
18:44
<vagrantc>
can always improve it later :)
18:44
better to get the initial framework and concepts in first
18:44
than worry about getting it perfect
18:44
<bennabiy>
Good point
18:45
<vagrantc>
perfection is the enemy of good, or some such
18:46
<bennabiy>
when I do a bzr status it tells me unknown
18:46
<vagrantc>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_is_the_enemy_of_good
18:46
<bennabiy>
and then the filename
18:46
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: sounds like you need to bzr add filename
18:46
<bennabiy>
ahh
18:46
yes
18:49
ok It should be there
18:51
https://code.launchpad.net/~bennabiy/ltsp/ltsp-LinuxMint
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18:53
<bennabiy>
vagrantc: How would you recommend updating the plymouth and ldm artwork?
18:54
I have versions which could drop in place, if I know where to reference them.
18:56
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: you'd have to talk to mint developers about that ... each distro ships it's own artwork in packages that the others don't share.
18:56
ideally, we should rope in some mint developers for LTSP support, too...
19:01
<bennabiy>
We have had contact with the developers before, perhaps if sbalneav could help as well, it would speed things up
19:02
There already is a LinuxMint plymouth which is used in the distro... Is it not possible to pull that from a repository and then set it as the default in the client build process?
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19:20
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: oh, yeah, that's probably possible to add
19:22
bennabiy: if there are already packages for it, you'd just have to add them in the plugins.
19:22
bennabiy: but the LDM theme will require a new package, i presume, or adding it to one of the existing packages.
19:27
<bennabiy>
What is the best way to go about that?
19:27
Did you see my post?
19:29
vagrantc: should I request a reviewer?
19:29
I am proposing a merge
19:30
ltsp-upstream commiters?
19:32
vagrantc: where is the plymouth configuration set? client/share/?
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19:34
<bennabiy>
submitted
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19:45
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: plymouth is typically handled by plymouth, not ltsp.
19:46
<bennabiy>
so it is just a matter of pulling the package, and then at stage (?) make the package the default... am I thinking right?
19:48
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: it looks like most of the plugins you've added should just by symlinks to the Ubuntu or Debian plugins.
19:49
<bennabiy>
that is what I was just going to fix
19:49
there really are only three files modified.
19:49
I think it is that way because I copied the Ubuntu folder and then modified its files
19:52
<vagrantc>
yeah, but you should just symlink the unmodified files... and there are some files (like 030-artwork)
19:55
bennabiy: i took the review and made a comment and marked it as needs fixing
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20:01
<bennabiy>
Ok. It is updated now.
20:02
do I need to do anything to resubmit it for review?
20:02
I noticed that your sound fix got pushed through. that is encouraging
20:03
<vagrantc>
one other minor fix, i don't think you should link 030-artwork at all- it's ubuntu specific. review other symlinked plugins like that
20:03
bennabiy: but then it looks passable to me
20:06
bennabiy: does anything add the mint repository gpg keys?
20:07
<bennabiy>
let me check
20:08
<vagrantc>
i.e. you don't need to run with --accept-unsigned-packages
20:08
<bennabiy>
nope
20:09
It has the ubuntu key installed, and because the client is being built from a computer which has the mint key already installed, it should work I am guessing
20:09
I can put a check in there for it...
20:09
<vagrantc>
start with this
20:10
<bennabiy>
I think I need to remove 030-fat-client as well, until I can customize it more for mint.
20:10
it references the ubuntu desktop
20:11
I do not do anything with fat clients... so I am not sure how detrimental it would be without it in there...
20:13
hmm, I think I can swap out the MATE desktop for it... :)
20:20
ok
20:21
vagrantc: what would be the best way to check my chroot to see if it needs mint keys added?
20:23
It looks like Ubuntu just uses the Debian --accept-unsigned-packages
20:27alkisg has joined IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg)
20:36* alkisg wonders if mint support should be a separate LinuxMint dir, or just a couple of files inside the Ubunt udir...
20:37
<bennabiy>
alkisg: Whichever works. It needs to have a placeholder LinuxMint folder one way or the other...
20:37
<alkisg>
Why?
20:37
<bennabiy>
because it will not build otherwise
20:37
<alkisg>
Ah, for the distrib variable...
20:37
<bennabiy>
yes
20:37
<alkisg>
It can be a symlink
20:38
<bennabiy>
There are a couple more things which would cause me to think its own folder, like customizing for kiosk mode
20:39
<alkisg>
Why would the kiosk mode be different?
20:39
<bennabiy>
It is a place where the Mint themes would be used, rather than human
20:40
I guess you could modify ubuntus to test if $MINTDIST is set
20:40
<alkisg>
Don't the other Ubuntu variants also have their own themes?
20:40
Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu etc etc?
20:40
<bennabiy>
yes, but ubuntu pulls them all under *buntu-desktop etc
20:41
<alkisg>
And there's no mint-desktop package?
20:41
<bennabiy>
There is
20:42
The nature of mint is that for all intensive purposes, the client is an ubuntu client. Mint is mostly a change of the graphical interface
20:42
which is where the mint repositories would come into play
20:42
there is a different window theme, and even window manager
20:43
<alkisg>
All ubuntu flavors have their own themes, the ltsp-build-client scripts supposedly take that into account
20:43
I don't think mint is so vastly different from the other flavors to justify its own dir...
20:44
<bennabiy>
The thing is, LinuxMint does not see itself as a flavor of ubuntu
20:45
<alkisg>
I don't see any mint debootstrap scripts
20:45
<bennabiy>
Nope
20:46
<alkisg>
What are the contents of /etc/lsb-release?
20:47
<bennabiy>
http://pastebin.com/Y21trXfL
20:49
Mint is based on Ubuntu, but as far as I understand, they modify the code, more than just a different theme
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20:50
<alkisg>
It uses the same DISTRIB_ID for both the Ubuntu and Debian-based variant
20:50
So it will need to be special-cased anyway
20:50
(in the detect_vendor() function)
20:51
When it's Ubuntu based, as far as LTSP is concerned, DISTRIB_ID can be mapped to Ubuntu,
20:51
and for LMDE, to Debian...
20:51
<bennabiy>
Would that be true for debian, as they do a rolling version?
20:51
<alkisg>
Isn't that the same as debian sid? debootstrap supports that...
20:52
See their sources.list and compare those to a debian box
20:52
<bennabiy>
I do not have a Debian install yet ( I could do a VM of it )
20:52
<alkisg>
So without looking too much into it, I think LinuxMint support should be 2-3 files inside Debian/ and Ubuntu/ dirs, and a few "if"s in detect_vendor() etc
20:54
When running ltsp-build-client under LMDE, one would expect an LMDE chroot as well, right?
20:55
<vagrantc>
hmmm.
20:55
<bennabiy>
Whatever you suggest... I just want to see it changed so Mint users do not have to jump through hoops to make a build
20:55
<vagrantc>
i had though about a mechanism for derivatives to just have overlay dirs without having so many symlinks all over
20:56
alkisg: I could see it either way, really. having it as a separate dir makes it clearer what it's modifying, and the differences are easier to compare
20:56
<alkisg>
vagrantc: where would the symlinks point to? the debian or the ubuntu dir?
20:56
<bennabiy>
I know as it is, it works
20:57
<vagrantc>
if statements nested in case statements get a little ugly.
20:57
and that allows the linuxmint branch to deviate without coordination from the parent distro.
20:57
<bennabiy>
alkisg: if you look at the ubuntu, most of the statements in there are pointed to debian
20:57
<vagrantc>
rather than potentially mucking something up in the parent distro's dir.
20:58
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I think then 2 mint dirs would be required, not one
20:58
<vagrantc>
alkisg: yes, another for LMDE
20:58* vagrantc always wanted to do overlays rather than symlinks
20:58
<bennabiy>
vagrantc alksig: let me do a mint debian install and see what the lsb-release output is
20:58
<vagrantc>
of course then it requires blank files if you want a different ordering...
20:59* alkisg is fine with 2 dirs and with overlays
20:59
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: someone confirmed it was LMDE, i think.
20:59
<bennabiy>
ok
20:59* vagrantc adds it on the TODO list of eternal somedays
20:59
<bennabiy>
I think LMDE would be fine to do a straight pointing to debian for all intensive purposes in the client build
20:59
<alkisg>
DISTRIB_ID=LinuxMint
20:59
DISTRIB_RELEASE=1
20:59
DISTRIB_CODENAME=debian
20:59
DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="LMDE MATE Edition"
21:00
<vagrantc>
doh!
21:00
<alkisg>
That's /etc/lsb-release for LMDE
21:00
<vagrantc>
that's going to be obnoxious.
21:00
<bennabiy>
heh
21:00
<vagrantc>
that's just plain broken.
21:00
<alkisg>
detect_vendor() will need some hoops ther e:)
21:00* bennabiy stirs the pot...
21:00
<vagrantc>
i'll pretend I didn't see that.
21:01
<bennabiy>
I really hate to do it, but we have a pretty bad storm rolling through. I might be on in a couple hours... please let me know what you all come to
21:02
<alkisg>
IMHO we could just pretend that Mint is an Ubuntu flavor, and LMDE some Debian flavor, and skip the 2 dirs / overlays etc part
21:02
<vagrantc>
hrm.
21:02
seems messier, but that's Mint.
21:04
alkisg: so you had an LMDE install sitting around somewhere?
21:04
<alkisg>
vagrantc: kvm -cdrom lmde.iso
21:05
And here's nadia:
21:05
DISTRIB_ID=LinuxMint
21:05
DISTRIB_RELEASE=14
21:05
DISTRIB_CODENAME=nadia
21:05
DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Linux Mint 14 Nadia"
21:05
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: looks like you may have committed without pushing the last updates?
21:06
<bennabiy>
let me check
21:06
<vagrantc>
alkisg: ah, handy.
21:06
alkisg: Nadia is ubuntu-based?
21:06
<alkisg>
Yup
21:07
<vagrantc>
ah, the quantal variant
21:07
<bennabiy>
Named = Ubuntu
21:07
yes
21:07
Maya was precious
21:07
I mean precise
21:07
Ok, I better go... Lightning less than a mile away
21:08
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: alright, try to push that bzr branch when you get a chance
21:09
alkisg: so you think a few if statements in the Debian/Ubuntu dirs should cover it?
21:09
<alkisg>
vagrantc: a mirror in e.g. line 5 of sources.list, gets priority over another mirror in e.g. line 10 of sources.list? And, what about sources.list.d/files?
21:09
<bennabiy>
check now
21:09
<vagrantc>
alkisg: not sure if sources.list takes priority over sources.list.d/*.list, but it's some predictible order.
21:10
<bennabiy>
It should be the latest
21:10
<alkisg>
The "if"s in detect_vendor() are necessary for Mint... so after that, it's just missing the repositories, it should be doable with 2 files
21:10
<vagrantc>
alkisg: the ordering mostly only affects which it will download from if they both have the same versions
21:10
it will always download the newest versions unless there's apt pinning
21:11
<bennabiy>
vagrantc: do you see the changes?
21:11
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: yup. go save yourself from lightning!
21:12
<alkisg>
The olivia=>raring etc mapping can go to detect_vendor,
21:12
+ MINT_MIRROR="http://packages.linuxmint.com" can become e.g. EXTRA_MIRROR,
21:12
...and that was all?
21:13
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so my nervousness with merging them into Debian/Ubuntu trees is just one of clarity, especially if another feature here or there becomes needed.
21:13
<alkisg>
I was thinking of just 001-mint-configuration
21:13
<vagrantc>
also, if there's a mint-specific thing that applies to the Ubuntu variant but not the Debian variant, but Ubuntu currently symlinks to the Debian plugin...
21:13
<alkisg>
...we can't avoid the detect_vendor changes in any case
21:14
Debian/001-mint-configuration and Ubuntu/001-mint-configuration
21:14
<vagrantc>
alkisg: using --extra-mirror means that it won't be able to use the commandline to overwrite it
21:14
so detect_vendor needs the changes to support the Ubuntu vs. Debian variants, or something else?
21:14
<alkisg>
We can take care of that somehow... either with "string1 \n string2", or with an extra variable...
21:15
Something else - to map from "LinuxMint" to Ubuntu
21:15
...or to Debian
21:15
...based on DISTRIB_CODENAME
21:16
<vagrantc>
right
21:16
or we convince mint to rename it LinuxMintDebian :)
21:17
wait, detect_vendor could be overridden on mint by adding ltsp-*-functions-vendor, no?
21:18
then it'll require patches to the mint packages that aren't present on debian/ubuntu packages...
21:18
alkisg: you wanna comment on the merge request?
21:18
<alkisg>
Since mint doesn't ship its own ltsp packages, I don't think overwriting would help
21:18
*overriding
21:19* vagrantc has to go for now...
21:19
<alkisg>
I don't think I have time for it this week
21:19
Tomorrow it's first work day
21:19
<vagrantc>
so bennabiy's current patches should work for LinuxMint (ubuntu variants)
21:19
<alkisg>
And we have some seminar planned in the first week...
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21:19
<vagrantc>
but not for LMDE
21:20
<alkisg>
I think they're building an ubuntu chroot
21:20
<vagrantc>
right
21:20
<alkisg>
So they need much more work anyway
21:20
<vagrantc>
and it'll fail when CODENAME=debian
21:20
<alkisg>
...if they're to build a mint chroot...
21:20
<vagrantc>
alkisg: mint is basically just ubuntu with a few extra packages.
21:20
or debian with a few extra packages...
21:21
<alkisg>
It does need a separate desktop environment though, right?
21:21
<vagrantc>
right
21:21
<alkisg>
I don't see that defined in the patches...
21:21
<vagrantc>
that's the extra packages.
21:21
that'd be just in ldminfod
21:21
<alkisg>
And, where's the mate/cinnammon etc installation?
21:21
<vagrantc>
er, ldm-server
21:21
or for that fatclient plugins, which i think they removed for now
21:22
ah, it uses the Debian fat-client plugin, which requires selecting your desktop.
21:23
which might work :)
21:23* vagrantc thinks it's mergeable as is, despite the lack of LMDE support
21:23
<vagrantc>
but maybe i'm just getting sloppy.
21:24
<alkisg>
So you'd go for a separate LinuxMint/ dir, instead of a couple of scripts inside Ubuntu/ and Debian/ ?
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21:25
<alkisg>
(and would expect another LMDE/ one in the future, with the appropriate casing in detect_vendor() ?)
21:26
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i guess, if we have to do special-casing anyways.
21:27
i guess we don't *have* to support linux mint :)
21:27
alkisg: for some reason i really don't like the special-casing in the ltsp-build-client plugin dirs...
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21:28
<alkisg>
There wouldn't be special casing there, only a couple of scripts with "mint" in their names
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21:28
<alkisg>
Existing code wouldn't be touched in the plugins...
21:28
<vagrantc>
that only respond to mint variables
21:28
i guess i could see that being workable
21:29* vagrantc really wishes the mint devs would help their users out on this...
21:29
<vagrantc>
000-basic-configuration, 000-basic-configuration-mint
21:29
<alkisg>
There are some bug reports in launchpad regarding lsb_release and mint...
21:30
If those are fixed, then we won't need the detect_vendor workarounds anymore - but the 00-baseic-configuration-mint scripts will continue to be required
21:30
Anyways, /me needs to get up very early tomorrow, so 'night all... :)
21:30
<vagrantc>
alkisg: good to see you! take care!
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21:36
<vagrantc>
hmmm... probably worth updating LTSP in Debian again before spending too much energy with Mint support :)
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