IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 17 January 2014   (all times are UTC)

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05:17
<alkisg>
vagrantc: hi! I'd like to see if I can make a squeeze thin chroot work with up-to-date Ubuntu servers. nbd-client does have an appropriate backported version, is a backported ltsp-client all we're missing?
05:18
Now that ltsp-update-kernels can extract the kernel+initrd from inside the squashfs image, I can put a 200 mb image somewhere and tell the users to just wget it and run ltsp-update-kernels...
05:19
reasons: work with older graphics cards, and work better with 128 mb ram clients
05:22
Hmmm although I'd need Lenny for good support of really old nvidia clients... http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/nvidia-kernel-legacy-71xx-source
05:26
....or Ubuntu Hardy 8.04, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/i386/xserver-xorg-core... that sounds like fun :D
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05:50
<vagrantc>
alkisg: squeeze has the backported ltsp-client packages from wheezy
05:51
hardy hurts my brain
05:51
at least squeeze has security support for a few more months
05:51
<alkisg>
For those cards, it's either Lenny or Hardy :)
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05:51
<alkisg>
Squeeze has a very "new" xorg version which is incompatible
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05:52
<alkisg>
Those cards need xorg 1.4
05:52
Well, unless I can install xorg 1.4 in squeeze...
05:52
<vagrantc>
this also reminds me of the idea to autobuild downloadable LTSP images
05:52
which i never got around to
05:52
<alkisg>
The problem with 8.04 is that squashfs uses an incompatible format
05:53
I don't know when the format was changed exactly... I don't know if lenny is affected too...
05:53
Where can I see if mksquashfs was updated in lenny-backports? I can't find lenny-backports...
05:54
<vagrantc>
lenny has been deprecated for quite some years...
05:54
<alkisg>
http://archive.debian.net/lenny-backports/ltsp-client
05:54
<vagrantc>
yeah
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05:55
<alkisg>
I think we have about 1000 graphics cards of that era... and nouveau makes them leave trails etc, they're not in a working state with recent releases
05:56
And the memory requirements with lenny or hardy would be much better... I'm thinking it would be worth it to spend a couple of days to create one single old chroot...
05:58
https://lists.debian.org/debian-backports/2010/04/msg00061.html
05:59
I think that refers to the squashfs issue I was talking about... if so, it's possible to build a lenny squashfs image from a trusty server... /me will try that :)
05:59
<Ark74>
alkisg, one question
06:00
<alkisg>
Ark74: shoot
06:00
<Ark74>
if i have installed local apps, but i don't use `"LOCAL_APPS_MENU" = TRUE' on lts.conf then... am i using the benefit of the local app or don't?
06:01
i mean using less bandwith
06:01
<alkisg>
You can only use them manually, i.e. if you run things with ltsp-localapps in front
06:01
So e.g. ltsp-localapps firefox would make firefox use less bandwidth *if* you have it installed in your chroot
06:01
vagrantc: it's still possible to install lenny and update it with lenny-backports, I'd just need to switch to the "archives" mirror, right?
06:02
<Ark74>
alkisg, even when there is no `"LOCAL_APPS_MENU" = TRUE' on the lts.conf?
06:02
<alkisg>
Ark74: yes, ltsp-localapps works without the menu
06:02
It's the command that the menu uses
06:04
<Ark74>
alkisg, so what's the difference between `firefox' and `firefox (ltsp12)'? <-- for example
06:04
less use of resources on the server?
06:04
<alkisg>
In the title bar? the first runs on the server, the other on the client
06:05
Less resources on the server and on the network, more on the client
06:05
!docs
06:05
<ltsp>
docs: For the latest community documentation, see the LTSP wiki at http://wiki.ltsp.org/ For a PDF with official documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
06:05
<alkisg>
Read the theory there ^
06:05
<Ark74>
alkisg, i've read the theory but in practice i really can't tell the difference :-/
06:06
so i was mixing things on my head
06:06
<alkisg>
Try watching a youtube video and run `top` on the server while doing so
06:08* alkisg tries: sudo debootstrap lenny /opt/lenny http://archive.debian.org/debian :)
06:08
<Ark74>
so if i'm only taking care of the network traffic i could just install `firefox' on chroot and run from the server then, right? not calling the app from the client
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06:10
<alkisg>
I don't understand your question. What are you trying to accomplish?
06:12
<Ark74>
Make lighter the network traffic on a 10/100 Mbps network
06:12
by using local apps
06:13
but... the machines are really slow if using the apps from the client (local-apps-menu)
06:13
<alkisg>
What are your client specs? What RAM, CPU, disk do they have?
06:13
<Ark74>
128 MB, 1.5 Ghz, 20 GB more of less
06:14
<alkisg>
1.5 GHz? What cpu is that?
06:14
P4? P4 M?
06:14
<Ark74>
Pentium 4
06:15
some Celeron
06:15
IIRC
06:15
<alkisg>
How many clients?
06:15
<Ark74>
10
06:15
<alkisg>
What server CPU?
06:15
<Ark74>
Core i5
06:15
<alkisg>
Which one?
06:15
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-3210M+%40+2.50GHz
06:16
<Ark74>
one sec
06:16
<alkisg>
Average CPU Mark: 2808
06:16
*3808
06:16
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i honestly haven't used archive.debian.org, but yeah, in theory it's still possible
06:17* alkisg thinks it'd be nice to write an "LTSP advisor" wizard in the ltsp.org site,
06:17
<alkisg>
which would advice people on how to best invest their money to have better performance with ltsp...
06:17
E.g. Ark74 now needs a gigabit switch with 60 €
06:18
<Ark74>
but all the NIC client's s are 100 Mbps, wouldn't it matter
06:18
<alkisg>
Ark74: sure it does
06:18
<Ark74>
'
06:19
<alkisg>
100 mbps servers sends 10 mbps to 10 clients
06:19
1000 mbps server sends 100 mbps to 10 clients
06:19
It's 10 times faster...
06:19
Ark74: so. Run firefox, youtube etc on 1 client. See how fast it goes.
06:19
Then, run youtube in 10 clients. See how slow it goes.
06:19
<Ark74>
even when the server send 10mbps, the clients won't be able to get that much info
06:20
<alkisg>
When you upgrade your switch, the 10 clients will go as fast as the 1 client went in the first try.
06:20
<Ark74>
so far the network runs "fine"
06:20
<alkisg>
(08:19:47 πμ) Ark74: even when the server send 10mbps, the clients won't be able to get that much info => you have 2 mistakes there
06:20
First mistake, the server will send 1000 mbps
06:20
<Ark74>
streaming youtube using Epoptes works fine xD
06:20
<alkisg>
The clients will get 100 mbps
06:21
<Ark74>
sorry i ment 10 MBps
06:21
<alkisg>
Ark74: let's speak in mbps, it'll be easier
06:21
<Ark74>
ok
06:21
<alkisg>
Why wouldn't the clients be able to get 100 mbps?
06:21
vagrantc: I've built a lenny chroot on 12.04 :) Continuing with installing stuff in it... :)
06:23
Ark74: we have 500 schools here using ltsp. Half of them use the method with the switch we're talking about.
06:23
<Ark74>
i thought that the NIC server will run at the same speed as the NIC clients
06:23
<alkisg>
The other half uses full gigabit
06:23
Ark74: what server NIC?
06:23
lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 Ethernet
06:24
<Ark74>
the server has a gigabit nic
06:24
<alkisg>
It matter which one, please run that command
06:24
(if you have access)
06:25
<Ark74>
sorry not right now :(
06:25
what should i look for?
06:26
<alkisg>
There's an issue called "flow control"
06:26
If you have intel or realtek, you can buy cheap switch with 60€
06:26
If it's atheros or marvel, you need expensive managed switch that can disable flow control
06:26
Or, to buy an intel graphics card on the server
06:27
*network
06:27
<Ark74>
ohh yeah, i remember that that topic on the list, last month i gess
06:28
so no need to replace the whole network, just the switch and the wire from the server to the switch
06:28
both gigabit
06:29
(or the switch with one gigabit port)
06:29
<alkisg>
vagrantc: so... starting with `debootstrap`, and installing ltsp-client afterwards, should I have everything that's needed? So e.g. if I'm missing the kernel, would you want me to report that so that you fix it in the packaging?
06:30
Ark74: yes, and usually the cable doesn't need to be replaced, category 5e is fine
06:30
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i think it still depended on a lot of manual configuration from ltsp-build-client
06:30
<alkisg>
vagrantc: the newer 5.5 one
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06:30
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i don't think that'll work in lenny ... aufs support was ... complicated.
06:31
<alkisg>
Over nfs, not over nbd
06:31
Right?
06:31
<vagrantc>
either way
06:31
<alkisg>
Ah
06:31
<vagrantc>
we're talking about software from what, 4 years ago?
06:31
my memory isn't solid on this :P
06:31
<alkisg>
Yup
06:32
vagrantc: do you think 8.04 has better chances?
06:32
It was using nbd/aufs at that point...
06:32* vagrantc makes no claims
06:32
<alkisg>
OK I'll start with lenny first :)
06:35
vagrantc: lenny-backports is a component that I need to add to my sources.list, right? I don't see it as a subfolder there though: http://archive.debian.org/debian/dists/lenny/
06:35
<Ark74>
alkisg, thanks it helped me a lot. so far the network is running fine but in case we keep adding clients i wanted to be prepared :)
06:36
<alkisg>
Ark74: you can make your clients run 10 times faster with 60€, if you don't want that, ok
06:37
<vagrantc>
alkisg: it wasn't officially part of the debian archive until... squeeze?
06:37
<alkisg>
Ah
06:38
<vagrantc>
http://archive.debian.org/debian-backports/dists/
06:38
bbut there it is :)
06:38
<alkisg>
Thanks!!!
06:38* vagrantc is slightly scared
06:38
<Ark74>
06:38
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so you're going to try to backport 5.5, too?
06:39
<alkisg>
Yup
06:39
<vagrantc>
60 euro for a 10/100 switch with 1-2 gigabit ports?
06:39
<alkisg>
Yes, a 16 port one
06:40
<vagrantc>
wow. i got mine for under US$25 :)
06:40
24+2
06:40
<alkisg>
Second hand?!
06:40
<vagrantc>
yeah
06:40
<alkisg>
Ah, ok
06:40
<vagrantc>
it's kind of overkill for my home network...
06:40
<alkisg>
vagrantc: if I want to `debuild -b` ltsp 5.5 in trusty, but have it think that I'm on debian so that it creates the packages with the debian set of dependencies... is there any environment variable I can set to do that?
06:41
<vagrantc>
alkisg: no
06:41
<alkisg>
Meh :(
06:41
<vagrantc>
you'll have to mangle the packaging
06:42
you could configure dpkg-vendor to at least temporarily pretend to be debian
06:42
<alkisg>
Thanks... ok first I want to try the squashfs support
06:50
Filesystem on bin.squashfs is (4:0), which is a later filesystem version than I support!
06:51
Let's see what the backports can do about that :)
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06:58
<alkisg>
About the aufs support, that part is easy, we can just use `nbd-server -c` (cow) on the server :)
07:00
<vagrantc>
you've got that working ok?
07:01
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I've tried it manually 2 years ago, it was working fine
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07:01
<alkisg>
With a symlink in /tmp so that it creates temp files in /tmp, not in images
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07:02
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so nbd-server exports the file from /tmp ?
07:03
<alkisg>
Yes
07:03
It was manual, I didn't care much for the "proper way to do things"
07:03* vagrantc sometimes cares too much for the proper way
07:03
<alkisg>
We can use a symlink from /var/ to make it better
07:04
I.e. symlink it to a (mktemp -d) directory on the first time it's used
07:04
We can do the same with the /tmp/nbd-server dir we're using now
07:04
Because that's improper as well...
07:05
vagrantc: does a `linux-image-486-bpo` exist, or do I manually have to specify the version, e.g. linux-image-2.6.32-bpo.5-486 ?
07:07
<vagrantc>
probably manually specified
07:07
<alkisg>
Thanks... so, what I meant about nbd was:
07:07
exportname = /var/run/ltsp/swap/%s
07:07
prerun = nbdswapd %s
07:07
And /var/run/ltsp/swap is a symlink to $(mktemp -d) created on the first time nbdswapd runs
07:08
And we can do the same with /var/run/ltsp/nbdroot, for cow root
07:08
<vagrantc>
so it'll be recreated on reboot ...
07:08
doesn't nbd-server usually run as nobody or a specific user?
07:09
<alkisg>
Yes, we can work around that though if we put the symlink somewhere where we have code that runs as root, and chmod it later, e.g.
07:10
from ltsp-server postinst, we can create a dir in /var/lib/ltsp/nbd, owned by nbd
07:10
And have the nbdswapd script create the symlinks inside there, well at least until wouter implements putting the cow files elsewhere
07:12
Wow, we have /var/lib/ltsp-client-setup/, no idea why...
07:15
Hehe, there's aoe support in the lenny kernel :D
07:16
<vagrantc>
oh, here we go...
07:16
<alkisg>
$ modinfo ./lib/modules/2.6.32-bpo.5-486/kernel/fs/squashfs/squashfs.ko
07:16
description: squashfs 4.0, a compressed read-only filesystem
07:16
Coooool :)
07:16
(4.0 is needed to decompress current squashfs images)
07:17* alkisg puts his Indiana Jones hat on, and continues exploring ancient history...
07:50
<alkisg>
Meh, that's why I don't like .c in LTSP... need to compile ldm with older libc... compiling...
07:51
LTSP 6 should be extremely easy to backport though :P :D
07:56
Choosing Lenny instead of 8.04 was a wise decision, the backports are a lot better there, I wouldn't even have debhelper in 8.04...
08:00
<Ark74>
alkisg, so machines with older processors (not having cmov instruction) will have ltsp 5.5 support on lenny some time in the future?
08:00
<alkisg>
Ark74: well that's a personal experiment...
08:00
If it goes well, I may put the result in some web site for anyone that would like to download it
08:01
<Ark74>
alkisg, nice!
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08:01
<vagrantc>
wheezy should work on machines without cmov, no?
08:09
<alkisg>
I think so
08:10
<Ark74>
i just read that a 486 kernel won't need cmov, not sure if there is a 486 wheezy kernel
08:11
(i mean the latest x86 kernel for non cmov processors)
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08:19
<vagrantc>
Ark74: yeah, wheezy has a -486 kernel
08:19
<Ark74>
08:19
08:20* vagrantc sleep 28800
08:20
<vagrantc>
if i'm lucky...
08:20* vagrantc waves
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08:22
<alkisg>
ldm.c needs a #include <signal.h>
08:23
<Ark74>
alkisg, still compiling?
08:23
<alkisg>
Yeah, I'm getting various issues
08:24
<Ark74>
i guess it's like time travel ;)
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08:38
<elias_a>
alkisg: Hello.
08:38
<alkisg>
Hi elias_a
08:39
<elias_a>
alkisg: I have a friend who has been collecting old computers for schools and poor people. He has retired and is about to move to Komotini.
08:40
<alkisg>
He's been living in Finland till now?
08:40
<elias_a>
alkisg: He does not know anything about LTSP but he has already started communicating with the principal of local school.
08:40
alkisg: Yes. He is sort of multicultural... :)
08:40
<alkisg>
Nice :)
08:42
<elias_a>
alkisg: IMHO the best alternative would be that this frend of mine would fix the computers and the principal would contact you in order to get LTSP running.
08:42
We are talking about 9th primary school of Komotini.
08:43
<alkisg>
elias_a: we have local IT support teams for schools where public IT teachers work on them
08:43
So, there's a team called "KEPLINET" that's in charge of supporting that school
08:43
<elias_a>
alkisg: Who should they contact?
08:43
<alkisg>
I'm head of such a team in Ioannina
08:44
So, when one school wants to do something with its computer lab, they contact their local support team
08:44
*office, better, not team
08:45
<elias_a>
alkisg: Could you tell me the office they should contact?
08:45
<alkisg>
2531084556 or plinetrd at sch.gr
08:45
All schools already know those
08:45
<elias_a>
Ok.
08:45
<alkisg>
The problem is with people that want to help schools and they don't know that they already have IT support offices
08:45
<elias_a>
Thanks!
08:46
<alkisg>
Then, the head of that office can contact me if he needs help, I'm in a central team that helps all those offices too :)
08:46
elias_a: also give him this link: http://ts.sch.gr/wiki/Linux/LTSP
08:46
It's the main link for the ltsp solution, as promoted from that central team I'm in
08:47
<elias_a>
Yes - I have seen that.
08:47
alkisg: I think we will manage with this!
08:47* alkisg checks http://www.ltsp.org/stories/widget-map/?location=Greece for nearby LTSP installations...
08:48
<alkisg>
Whoops, nope, komotini doesn't have any. Nearby towns and cities do...
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08:57
<elias_a>
alkisg: Do you have a hardware specification for the terminals?
08:58
<alkisg>
elias_a: thin clients: anything with at least 128 mb ram
08:58
<elias_a>
alkisg: Ok. So almost anything will do :)
08:58
<alkisg>
and, for p4+ clients that take DDR-1 RAM, it's best to put 1 GB RAM on them and make them fat clients
08:59
<elias_a>
Does your fat client implementation uselocal HDD?
09:00
Or are they diskless, too?
09:00
<alkisg>
Diskless
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09:00
<elias_a>
Ok.
09:00
<alkisg>
We only use local disks if there's no gigabit switch
09:00
In that case, we copy the LTSP i386.img locally
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09:09
<alkisg>
!clients
09:09
<ltsp>
I do not know about 'clients', but I do know about these similar topics: 'fatclients', 'epoptes-fat-clients'
09:09
<alkisg>
!nbd-clients
09:09
<ltsp>
I do not know about 'nbd-clients', but I do know about these similar topics: 'nbd-client'
09:09
<alkisg>
!nbd-client
09:09
<ltsp>
nbd-client: To try mounting the NBD image from the client initramfs: nbd-client 192.168.67.1 -N /opt/ltsp/i386 /dev/nbd0
09:09
<alkisg>
!nbdclients
09:09
<ltsp>
I do not know about 'nbdclients', but I do know about these similar topics: 'nbd-client'
09:09
<alkisg>
!ltsp-clients
09:09
<ltsp>
Error: "ltsp-clients" is not a valid command.
09:10
<alkisg>
!client-list
09:10
<ltsp>
client-list: to get a list of all nbd-clients (which sometimes is the same as ltsp clients), run: netstat -tn | sed -n 's/.*:10809 *\([0-9.]*\):.*/\1/p' | sort -Vu
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11:55
<alkisg>
Hehe... took me some time, but I have LTSP 5.5 installed in Lenny... later on I'll test if it also boots :P
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12:30
<lifeboy>
How do I check that "jetpipe" starts in a chroot, ie it doesn't start, so I need to check why, but when I start is with "jetpipe /dev/usb/lp1 9100" it start and all is well.
12:32
<alkisg>
Check ltsp bugs in launchpad, there was a known bug about it
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12:43
<alkisg>
!nbd-client
12:43
<ltsp>
nbd-client: To try mounting the NBD image from the client initramfs: nbd-client 192.168.67.1 -N /opt/ltsp/i386 /dev/nbd0
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12:52
<lifeboy>
Will do, Alkisg
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13:00
<lifeboy>
I found the launchpad bugreport http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=700881, which vagrantc worked on, but when I look at my wheezy client, jetpipe is already in ltsp-client-core, but it fails to start silently. I don't know what to do about this.
13:11
Is it possible to get ltsp-client-core to log it's progress/failures?
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13:37
<lifeboy>
I've read of lot of comments and emails on the jetpipe failing to start matter, but can't see any reason why mine doesn't start. It is start from ltsp-client-core, it start manually but not bys itself it boot-time. I've had a look a the script that should start it, but cannot see what the problem is.
13:38
In my lts.conf I have
13:38
LOCALDEV = true
13:38
PRINTER_0_DEVICE = /dev/usb/lp1
13:38
PRINTER_0_TYPE = U
13:39
Should the PRINTER_0_DEVICE string be quoted maybe? like "/dev/usb/lp1"
13:44
<alkisg>
Yey! LTSP 5.5 in Debian Lenny!!! :D http://paste.debian.net/76814/
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13:51
<alkisg>
In Ubuntu trusty, the output of free is "-/+ buffers/cache: 50288 197612", i.e. 20 MB more
13:51
So yeah that should help 128 MB RAM clients a _lot_
14:22
<bennabiy>
vagrantc & alkisg: You should check ebay for switches... I just saw an auction for a lot of 3 48 port managed switches with dual gigabit ports for $30.
14:23
I noticed your conversation earlier...
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15:53
<||cw>
decent switches are getting so cheap
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17:08
<bennabiy>
yes
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18:05* highvoltage scratches hear regarding gnome menu stuff
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18:54
<alkisg>
highvoltage: Alberts Muktupāvels said he has a patch that makes gnome-panel ship the old menu
18:54
It doesn't make sense to ship the new menu, it's something else, it's not appropriate for gnome-panel anymore...
18:55
So, they should be 2 files, one for gnome-shell, and one for gnome-panel...
18:57
<highvoltage>
alkisg: *nod*
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19:06
<highvoltage>
alkisg: btw, still using lenny?
19:06
alkisg: Alberts' suggestion seems to be shipping the old file, which on it's own does nothing if the new one provided by gnome-menus is there
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19:07
<highvoltage>
alkisg: and we can't just overwrite files from another package, but perhaps he's accounted for that, will follow up there
19:08
<alkisg>
highvoltage: he's probably using another path for it
19:08
Previously it was called "applications.menu", I think, maybe he's using the old name
19:08
I've *just* started using Lenny :D
19:09
I think it will help a lot of clients here that won't run properly in recent debian or ubuntu versions
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19:10
<highvoltage>
alkisg: I guess security isn't important to them? can new versions of web browsers at least still run on there?
19:12
<alkisg>
highvoltage: their choices are, have something that runs on 15 year old PCs with 128 MB RAM, or do the lesson in the whiteboard without computers
19:12
The server will be 14.04
19:12
So yeah new browsers and all
19:13
<highvoltage>
ah I see
19:13
it's a pity how big software has become. I don't think the software on my computer gives me much more features than it did during the lenny period
19:14
<alkisg>
True... I think what we lack more is a good vnc solution, with which we could have "static" clients that never get updated
19:15
We used to be able to run VNC over dos with 2 MB RAM
19:15
<highvoltage>
a while back freerdp and the freerdp server looked promising, but I never got round to trying it out
19:16
<alkisg>
I saw their git recently, it doesn't have much activity, especially on the server part
19:16
<highvoltage>
but having a pure thin solution like that that's almost as dumb as a TV would be really great
19:16
<alkisg>
TVs nowadays have DLNA clients and all.. how hard would it be to just add keyboard+mouse to the mix :-/
19:17
I think we'll see that in the future, smart TVs offering thin/zero client services too
19:18
Ubuntu TV could actually make that happen with the existing hardware
19:19
<highvoltage>
the Samsung Android TV's have keyboards/mouse and you can install rdp and vnc clients on them
19:19
<alkisg>
They have much hardware acceleration for video decoding, it's a shame not to put that into use
19:20
A better protocol should be employed there... for great results even for video playback on thin clients
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20:12
<percy>
hi
20:12
<alkisg>
Hello
20:12
<percy>
i am speak spanish
20:12
alguien puede ayudarme a usar epoptes
20:12
<alkisg>
percy: use google translate, I don't think people here give support in spanish
20:13
http://translate.google.com/
20:13
<percy>
ok
20:14
can someone help me use epoptes?
20:14
<alkisg>
Yes, what's the problem?
20:15
<percy>
used as epoptes ubuntu networking?
20:16
<alkisg>
Write the problem
20:18
Did you read http://epoptes.org/installation ?
20:19
<percy>
as client alias is created in the Epoptes software (in the Edubuntu operating system)?
20:19
<alkisg>
http://www.epoptes.org/documentation/aliases
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20:49
<alkisg>
vagrantc: http://paste.debian.net/76814/
20:52
It needs 15-20 MB RAM less than recent distros, but more importantly, it should work with older graphics cards...
20:52* vagrantc claps
20:53
<vagrantc>
the cdpingerless ltspfs works too?
20:53
<alkisg>
Tested with nbd and nfs. I still have issues but nothing major, e.g. I was able to login with xterm
20:53
I haven't tried those.. it has hal + udev, i'm not sure if it'll make it
20:54
Btw ip=dhcp isn't necessary after all, and neither is initrd=xxx, we can remove them from the command line
21:00
<vagrantc>
initrd= gets added by pxelinux
21:00
at least, i thought it did
21:00
<alkisg>
I mean this:
21:00
we currently add initrd= ourselves,
21:01
while we could say "kernel xxx, initrd yyy, append => wihout initrd"
21:01
...then pxelinux *still* adds initrd=xxx, but it's not our fault then, we can file a bug about it
21:02
<vagrantc>
pxelinux derives an initrd to pass?
21:02
<alkisg>
No no it supports 2 ways to tell it which initrd to pass
21:02
One, with a special initrd yyy line
21:02
Similar to our "kernel xxx" line
21:02
<vagrantc>
what's thee problem with the way we do it now?
21:02
<alkisg>
Second method, in the append line
21:03
If we put it to the append line, we're telling pxelinux that we want it there
21:03
http://www.syslinux.org/wiki/index.php/SYSLINUX#INITRD_initrd_file
21:04
If we do it this way, we can file a bug report and ask them to not derive/pass the "initrd=yyy" parameter
21:04
Anyways, we can file the bug even before we change our code, and see if they'll accept to commit that
21:04
Details... :)
21:05
<vagrantc>
i still don't understand what the problem is
21:05
ip=dhcp is needed to get initrd-less setups to work
21:05
but those are special-cases, and not the default
21:06
<alkisg>
How does that work? The kernel supports nfs root without an initramfs?
21:06
<vagrantc>
yeah
21:06
<alkisg>
Cool, I didn't know that
21:06
<vagrantc>
it has to have all the features compiled in, of course
21:06
<alkisg>
And I suppose the necessary modules are compiled inside the kernel... nice
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22:14
<alkisg>
The gnome-flashback launcher has various issues with "gnome-session-check-accelerated", even though it's not supposed to ask for an accelerated environment, but manually launching gnome-panel works fine
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