IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 9 April 2012   (all times are UTC)

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06:19* alkisg wonders what the performance gain is between using NBD, and exporting just the /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img file with NFS and loop-mounting it as the client root file system
06:20
<alkisg>
An NFS exported squashfs'ed image should still be much faster than an NFS exported /opt/ltsp/i386 dir...
06:21
That might even solve all the nbd-proxy, disconnects etc etc related problems, as nfs-client is more mature
06:21
highvoltage: you might want to try that ^ instead of using nbd-proxy
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06:45
<muppis>
alkisg, cheez. That could be cool. We tried to use ltsp in our virtualcluster and only reason to abandon it was is not surviving from SAN failover.
06:46
But never thinked could use loop mounting for image directly.
06:50
<alkisg>
muppis: of course you could also try using NFS directly, without loop mounting anything, it'd be a bit slower though
06:50
AFAIK all distros that support LTSP also support NFS-exported /opt/ltsp/i386 dirs
06:54
<muppis>
alkisg, speed to really the issue in our case. When system is started it really does nothing than sits in a corner and keeps virtuals running. We ended up using seperated nfs exports per virtualhost.
06:54
<alkisg>
"speed to really the issue" => did you mean that speed is an issue, or that it isn't?
06:54
<muppis>
Isn't. Sorry, just woke up. :)
06:55
<alkisg>
Then why not use e.g. debian, which uses nfs by default?
06:55
Or switch ubuntu to nfs, isn't hard...
06:57
<muppis>
I really don't longer remember why we cave up whole ltsp enviroment in those.
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07:00
<muppis>
But ltsp could be lot easier to maintain than system where we ended to use.
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15:24* vagrantc waves to alkisg
15:24
<alkisg>
Hi vagrantc, I have the epoptes changelog ready to commit when you have time for upload :)
15:24
Just ping me and I'll be ready in 5'
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15:24
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i'll give it a test build, and then we'll run with it
15:25
<alkisg>
I tested the new pxe-menus and they work out of the box for both NBD and NFS now :)
15:25
<vagrantc>
nice!
15:27
<alkisg>
http://imagebin.org/207317 - dirs sorted in ascending order, kernels in descending, the header/footer is in /etc/ltsp, and the DEFAULT in /etc/default/ltsp-pnp (fow now)
15:29
Two of those images are btrfs loop back images, those work fine too
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15:56
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i'd go ahead and commit your changes (leave the -1 tag for me, though, just in case)
15:56
<alkisg>
Cool, doing so..
15:57* vagrantc should maybe use debian/x.x.x-x instead
15:59
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i was thinking it would be nice if ltsp-info had a hook where epoptes could say "also look at my package versions!"
16:01
<alkisg>
So that we can ask for ltsp-info in epoptes bug troubleshooting? I'm not sure if it's worth it for epoptes, but in general it sounds nice
16:01
<vagrantc>
if i'm doing ltsp troubleshooting, it would be nice to know epoptes is there.
16:01
but i wouldn't want to look for it if epoptes wasn't there...
16:06
<alkisg>
vagrantc: pushed
16:08
<vagrantc>
aha, i forgot to even report a bug you fixed with this version ...
16:09
"service epoptes stop" didn't work
16:09
but now it does ... although that leaves some cruft on upgrades... the old epoptes process continues to run
16:13
alkisg: a one character diff with australian english!
16:13* vagrantc debates weather that shouldn't just be merged upstream.
16:13
<alkisg>
vagrantc: yeah, I keep wondering why he bothered :)
16:13
What is it?
16:14
<vagrantc>
"fullscreen" vs. "full screen"
16:14
which is a bit debateable at this point ... i'd almost say "fullscreen" has made it into common enough use that it's just plain english.
16:15
<alkisg>
#: ../epoptes/ui/gtk/epoptes.ui.h:22
16:15
msgid "Broadcast your screen to the selected clients, fullscreen"
16:15
msgstr "Broadcast your screen to the selected clients, fullscreen"
16:15
He didn't do that one though :)
16:15
<vagrantc>
but i am perhaps not the best judge
16:15
heh
16:15
might be contextually dependent in australia
16:16
<||cw>
google dones'
16:16
t even suggest "did you mean full screen"
16:18
<vagrantc>
alkisg: s,precise,unstable, :P
16:18
<alkisg>
vagrantc: errr
16:18
Could you allow me a push --overwrite? :D
16:18
You uncommit, I push --overwrite, you pull, simple
16:19
<vagrantc>
alkisg: why bother, i'll tag 0.5.3-1 with the change.
16:19
<alkisg>
OK
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16:22
<alkisg>
http://www.epoptes.org/news/version053released
16:22
<vagrantc>
alkisg: do you use "dch" to edit debian/changelog?
16:22
<alkisg>
vagrantc: yes, but I mistakenly put -Ui there
16:23
<vagrantc>
ah.
16:23
makes it all ubuntu-ish
16:27
<alkisg>
Heh, I'll sync to Precise tomorrow, just 1 day before final freeze... not very good for a new package :D
16:27
But ok the last changes were only minor fixes + translation updates
16:28
stgraber: beeeeep => reminder for the ltsp upload :)
16:31
<stgraber>
alkisg: yeah, working on other stuff today (day off ;)), will look at it tomorrow
16:31
<vagrantc>
alkisg: uploaded.
16:31
<alkisg>
np, just in case you forgot
16:31
vagrantc: thank you once more!
16:32
<vagrantc>
anything for ltsp other than the symlinks for ltsp-*functions fixes?
16:32
<alkisg>
Just that, I think
16:33
About the pxe menus, I ended up using "pxelinux.inc" files, which are not actually included to the master pxelinux.cfg/default, but are concatenated there (to allow for setting a specific MENU DEFAULT in the correct place)
16:33
Each package or the sysadmin drop such files anywhere they want, and they're sourced in dir-alphabetical order
16:33
<vagrantc>
the MENU DEFAULT only works on the top-level?
16:34
<alkisg>
No, it needs to be defined inside a LABEL
16:34
If it was allowed at top-level, we could just INCLUDE the other files from the master one
16:35
<vagrantc>
at any rate, you found a workable solution :)
16:35
<alkisg>
Final ltsp-update-kernels, in the future I'll merge it upstream: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~alkisg/+junk/ltsp-pnp/view/head:/sbin/ltsp-update-kernels
16:35
<vagrantc>
the future starts today, no? :)
16:35
<alkisg>
And final update-pxe-menu: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~alkisg/+junk/ltsp-pnp/view/head:/ltsp-pnp/update-pxe-menu
16:36
Today I'll try to make `ltsp-publish-image`, so I can release the first version of ltsp-pnp :)
16:36
I want to do 10-20 school installations in 2 weeks, so no time for LTSP upstream merges now
16:37
<vagrantc>
alkisg: are you planning on diverting ltsp-update-kernels from ltsp-server, or merging it upstream?
16:37
<alkisg>
When ltsp-pnp matures, I'd like to put it upstream, to be generated from the same source package
16:37
So at that point, if you all agree, I'll merge any changes
16:38
But now it's too soon, that's why I ended up reimplementing the tools from scratch, for faster development
16:38
<vagrantc>
one thing i was wondering... why not use nbdroot=dhcp ?
16:39
<alkisg>
?
16:39
nbdroot=:ltsp_pnp, the nbd config name
16:39
<vagrantc>
i guess if you have multiple NFS chroots and NBD images, you need to be able to select them from the menu
16:39
<alkisg>
That already works, http://imagebin.org/207317
16:40
<vagrantc>
alkisg: yes, but nbdroot=dhcp allows you to pass ":ltsp_pnp" via DHCP
16:40
<alkisg>
I booted my ubuntu chroots with NFS with no changes at all, but just running the ltsp-pnp's ltsp-update-kernels
16:40
Ah
16:40
Well... I think that the most common ltsp-pnp use case is with proxydhcp
16:40
<vagrantc>
though i guess explicitly defining the NBD and NFS root options from the menu actually allows more flexibility
16:40
<alkisg>
In this case, the client doesn't do a second dhcp request
16:41
Because udhcp and ipconfig don't know about the pxe protocol (and probably shouldn't)
16:41* vagrantc uses multiple chroots and servers all the time, and ends up writing a cuustom menu
16:41
<alkisg>
So I'm using IPAPPEND 3 by default...
16:41
<vagrantc>
right
16:41
<alkisg>
vagrantc: let's see if we can satisfy all your needs with the new pxe menu structure
16:41
<vagrantc>
alkisg: seems like you're practically there
16:42
<alkisg>
You'll still need to provide some pxelinux.inc files, but I suppose they'll be merged OK by update-pxe-menus
16:42
<vagrantc>
i'll need to support multiple debian-installer, ubuntu-installer, debian-live and ubuntu-live images.
16:43
and a few other random options ... seems like the possibility is basically there already, with perhaps a few small additions.
16:43
<alkisg>
That should be easy enough, I do that with debian installer + casper images too
16:43
vagrantc: if you want to extract the pxelinux.inc logic in another package, I'd be glad to depend on it instead
16:45
<vagrantc>
i think it either belongs in it's own source, or possibly merged into syslinux.
16:45
alkisg: i'd say you keep going with what you've got, and we can adjust it later, if that works for you
16:45
<alkisg>
Syslinux integration sounds better, so yup, I'll do as you say
16:46
It's basically just a 43-lines script and a configuration file, so I don't think they'd object much
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18:25
<alkisg>
!learn ltsp-pnp as ltsp-pnp is a beta-quality alternative to ltsp-server, which focuses on ease of maintainance (no chroots involved!) and speed rather than tight security. More info: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
18:25
<ltsp>
alkisg: The operation succeeded.
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