IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 8 May 2014   (all times are UTC)

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04:26
<Ark74>
hi!
04:26
(again)
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04:47
<Ark74>
question: how can i close localapps from epoptes?
04:49
<work_alkisg>
Ark74: sudo killall appname
04:49
<Ark74>
i tried that, it didn't work
04:50
<work_alkisg>
It does work, so say exactly what command you wrote so that we see what was wrong with it
04:50
<Ark74>
it worked with non-localapps
04:51
<work_alkisg>
Does sudo xterm work?
04:51
<Ark74>
sudo killall vlc
04:51
i did, ltsp-localapps vlc -f http://10.10.10.10:8080
04:51
<work_alkisg>
When the clients are in the LDM screen, i.e. before logging in, do you see them in epoptes?
04:51work_alkisg is now known as alkisg
04:52
<Ark74>
yeah, i can see all screens on epopres
04:52
*epoptes
04:52
i can even open other apps
04:53
<alkisg>
So they appear as green monitors with the word "thin" on top of them?
04:53
<Ark74>
nope, i can see the streaming on them
04:53
<alkisg>
You didn't answer my question then...
04:53
You boot a client. You don't log in at all. Do you see the client in epoptes? How does the thumbnail look like there?
04:55
http://ts.sch.gr/mediawiki/images/b/b3/0.5.7_epoptes_startup.png
04:55
See the green/blue monitor icons there
04:55
Did you ever see those?
04:55
The ones writing "thin" or "fat"
04:55
<Ark74>
here the image: http://ark.switnet.org/tmp/epoptes.png
04:56
<alkisg>
There it says "ltsp-01"
04:56
Which means that you logged in as the user "ltsp-01"
04:56
My question was, "before login"
04:56
I can't say it more clearly than that, sorry...
04:57
<Ark74>
sorry, there are green
04:57
thin clients
04:57
with some localapps
04:57
*they are
04:58
<alkisg>
Right click on a client, and select "open terminal, root, locally"
04:58
Does an xterm open?
04:58
<Ark74>
yep
04:58
<alkisg>
There, run "ps aux|grep vlc"
04:58
What's the output? use middle mouse click for copy/paste
04:58
I.e. select in xterm for copy, middle click in irc for paste
05:01
<Ark74>
arggg! :(
05:01
i can't copy it
05:01
i've always used Ctrl+Shift+C
05:01
but it won't work
05:01
<alkisg>
That's why I wrote the 2 lines above
05:01* vagrantc blinks
05:01
<alkisg>
Please read what I'm saying, I'm writing things for a reason :)
05:02* alkisg waves to vagrantc
05:03
<Ark74>
ltsp-02 3711 0.0 0.2 5116 1292 tty7 S 23:46 0:00 su - ltsp-02 -c LANG=es_MX.UTF-8 LANGUAGE=es_MX.UTF-8 DISPLAY=:7 XAUTHORITY=/var/run/ldm-xauth-FSDVFiha6/Xauthority XDG_DATA_DIRS=/tmp/ltsp-localapps-ltsp-02-oQoSFZ/:/usr/local/share/:/usr/share/ LTSP_CLIENT_MAC=00:1F:C6:73:1D:C1 LTSP_CLIENT=10.10.10.65 LTSP_CLIENT_HOSTNAME=ltsp65 vlc -f http://10.10.10.10:8080
05:03
(sorry i had to get a usb mouse)
05:04
<alkisg>
Now try `killall vlc` from that local xterm
05:05
It's possible that it won't work because localapps are started with `su`
05:05
<Ark74>
root@ltsp65:~# killall vlc
05:05
bash: killall: command not found
05:05
<alkisg>
Ah, ok then
05:05
So, try `pkill vlc`
05:07
<Ark74>
it worked!
05:07
<alkisg>
OK, so, from epoptes you'd run: sudo pkill vlc
05:07
Because you don't have killall installed
05:08
<Ark74>
ohh, nice
05:08
thanks
05:09
<vagrantc>
or install the program you want to run...
05:09
<Ark74>
on the chroot, right?
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05:12
<alkisg>
Yup
05:13
<Ark74>
thanks guys!
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05:14
<Ark74>
BTW, as you said before using localapps on thin clients it's much better for video streaming
05:29
i got another question, if i may
05:29
how different are 10/100 with 1 or 2 gigabit ports switches from full gigabit switches?
05:30
(both non-managed)
05:30
<alkisg>
Are the clients gigabit?
05:30
<Ark74>
nope
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05:30
<alkisg>
Then, no different at all
05:31
!flow-control
05:31
<ltsp>
flow-control: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FlowControl
05:31
<alkisg>
!lan-benchmark
05:31
<ltsp>
lan-benchmark: If you have a mixed-speed network (gigabit server<=>switch connection, and 100 Mbits/sec clients<=>switch connections), then you might suffer from the !flow-control issue. To benchmark your LAN with epoptes, see http://www.epoptes.org/documentation/lan-benchmark
05:32
<MrV>
no different if you plug your ltsp-server in gigabit port you mean?
05:32
<Ark74>
yep
05:33
so the myth on my head that i try to kill is that there is no way that a gigabit server (with gigabit swithc) will reach 980Mbps transfer speed on a 10/100 clients network
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05:34
<Ark74>
since 10/100 use 2 pairs of the UTP cable and gigabit use the 4 pairs
05:34
am i right?
05:36
without flow control the server speed will be faster, but still not gigabit speed
05:36
<alkisg>
A gigabit server can send 100 mbps to *each* client, so with 10 clients it can send 1 gbps
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05:37
<alkisg>
So yes it can be gigabit speed
05:38
<Ark74>
so if my server reach a `virtual` limit of 19 Mbps, i'm having the flow control issue
05:38
(using 9 clients)
05:38
<alkisg>
Sure, it needs to be >= 500 mbps
05:40
<Ark74>
alkisg> A gigabit server can send 100 mbps to *each* client, so with 10 clients it can send 1 gbps
05:40
^^
05:40
that's the statement i was having issues, thanks to clarify
05:42
thanks again guys, now back to work :)
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06:06
<MrV>
wait! if you must you can tell me to go rtfm, but - if I have 10 Mbps connection between networks (one network has 100 Mbps and 1 Gpbs switches) is it possible that due to flow-control of the ltsp-server it would switch to 10 Mbps connection to ALL clients?
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06:15
<alkisg>
If it is: server ==> (1000) switch ==> (10) switch ==> (100) clients, then the connection is 10 mbps, which is very very unsuitable for LTSP
06:15
!lan-benchmark
06:15
<ltsp>
lan-benchmark: If you have a mixed-speed network (gigabit server<=>switch connection, and 100 Mbits/sec clients<=>switch connections), then you might suffer from the !flow-control issue. To benchmark your LAN with epoptes, see http://www.epoptes.org/documentation/lan-benchmark
06:15
<alkisg>
That's one "correct" way to measure the effective bandwidth
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06:18
<MrV>
and what if there is no (10) switch, just some network devices?
06:20
<alkisg>
Write the speed path from the server to a client
06:20
server => 1000 => 100 => client ?
06:23
<MrV>
I mean does it measurable or switch based?
06:23
<markosu>
I got old HP Laserjet 5 printer with ethernet port. How I assing ip (configs) to printer? There is good guide how to setup printer for clients but no help for config printer's configs.
06:24
Should I connect printer to same switch that is used for clients?
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06:30
<MrV>
server (1000) - switch (1000) - GPON device port (100) --- provider provided (lol) link of 10 Mbps --- GPON device port (100) - switch (100) - client (100)
06:35
<work_alkisg>
Yeah that's not suitable for ltsp, it's 100 times slower than it should be
06:39
<MrV>
no-no-no!
06:40
I'm using ltsp only to start rdp-client locally, so it is a minimal network activity for clients (60 Mb or something during boot and thats all)
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06:42
<MrV>
my problem is this - sometimes, tthree-four times a year client start to boot veeeeery slow. up to some minutes instead of 30 seconds
06:42
I do not know why. Network is not overloaded, server is not overloaded.
06:42
whie I test everything I can think of the problem goes away
06:43
whiLe*
06:44
it can be couple of hours or half a day
06:45
<vagrantc>
it wouldn't take much to flood a 10Mbps connection.
06:45
<MrV>
but then, with NO server restart, NO swtich restart, NO nothing restart, it suddenly start working normally
06:46
during this I test inter-building connection - it's OK, I can down/up-load at 10 Mbps
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07:05
<work_alkisg>
vagrantc: do you know who has access to change the irc topic? Only sbalneav and knipwim?
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07:10
<alkisg>
!add test
07:10
<ltsp>
(add <name> <url>) -- Adds a command to this plugin that will look up the RSS feed at the given URL.
07:11
<alkisg>
!default test
07:11
<ltsp>
Error: 'supybot.test' is not a valid configuration variable.
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07:12
<alkisg>
!topic
07:12
<ltsp>
I do not know about 'topic', but I do know about these similar topics: 'topics'
07:13
<MrV>
no thoughts on my problem?
07:14
<alkisg>
!op
07:14
<ltsp>
Error: You don't have the #ltsp,op capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
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07:32
<vagrantc>
!op
07:32
<ltsp>
Error: You don't have the #ltsp,op capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
07:33
<markosu>
Anyone to help me with network printer (hp laserjet 5)? Is it possible to give network configs to printer using BOOTP?
07:33
<vagrantc>
alkisg: might be jammcq...
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12:16
<brianr>
I have ltsp running on ubuntu 13.10, serving between 30-40 clients at any given time. sometimes I have an issue with the clients not booting, it complains about initramfs not being able to be read. I have narrowed it down to a problem with NBD, if i run nbd-server from the command line (spawn another process) some can then connect
12:17
<alkisg>
What is the exact error message?
12:17
<brianr>
this issue has been going on since I set the box up, 6 months ago, but in the last week it has become more pronounced
12:19
well the exact error message on the client i don't have in front of me ...
12:19
<alkisg>
OK, personally I can't help then, maybe someone else can...
12:19
<brianr>
let me ask this, in 13.10 should nbd be serving from inetd? does nbd-server spawn multiple processes?
12:20
<alkisg>
It doesn't use inetd for nbd, no
12:20
It's supposed to spawn multiple processes
12:20
<brianr>
is there a limit on the number of processes? i havent been able to find that, in fact it says that unless specified there is no limit
12:21
<alkisg>
No, there's no limit
12:24
<brianr>
should i expect to see nbdrootd running?
12:24
<alkisg>
No. It might be left from bad upgrades, and it shouldn't be used anymore at all.
12:25
<brianr>
so, really the only config points are /etc/nbd-server/config and /etc/nbd-server/conf.d
12:26
<alkisg>
For nbd, yes. ldm-server is still ran from inetd.
12:28
<brianr>
i have nothing in inetd for ldm-server
12:29
ahh ldminfod
12:39
is nbdrootd: ALL: keepalive still required in hosts.allow ?
12:41
<alkisg>
There's no nbdrootd anymore, anywhere
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16:00
<stevecook>
Hello folk. My name is steve cook. I have juset sucessfully set up an ltsp server on an ubuntu 12.04 32 bit pentium D. I have tested it with a single thin client directly via a cable from the eth on the client direct to the eth on ther server and it's all booting up and logging in fine. However, for various testing purposes, i am wanting to set up some virtual thin clients using virtualbox virtualisation software.
16:00
But virtual box is not playing ball
16:01
anyone with experience of setting up virtual thin clients in virtual box?
16:03
<||cw>
define "not playing ball"
16:03
pretty sure I've used vbox for that before, but usually use vmware
16:09
<stevecook>
sorry, away from desk for five mins. It's not playing ball by not being able to pxe boot. I've set up the network card as bridged and netowrk as priority boot and have got no hard disk attached
16:09
i'll try and boot now and copy out the precise error code
16:12
PXE-E51: No DCHP or proxy DCHP offers were recieved
16:12
i've tested the server host and it's running fine
16:12
<||cw>
if you boot a live-cd image does it get dhcp?
16:12
<stevecook>
so it's a problem at the vbox end i think
16:13
<||cw>
also, vbox isn't on the lstp host itself, right?
16:13
<stevecook>
I've not trtied that but will do so now and report back in a couple of mins
16:13
vbox is in the host, yes
16:14
<||cw>
that I've not tried.
16:15
pentium D's kind of weak for that as well.
16:15
<stevecook>
I imagined it wouldnlt be a problem running the thin client inside vbox on the host
16:16
<||cw>
is the network cable on the bridged nic will plugged into a switch?
16:16
<stevecook>
I'm running a conky and the systme is not under excessive load,. Indeed, ive can set up a virtual ltsp server and virtual thin client inside my host and run an entire virtual ltsp network without my system complaining. so, what i am attepting to do now should be less of a laod
16:16
<||cw>
will/still?
16:17
<stevecook>
the bridged nic is entirely cirtual inside virtual box
16:17
and is "cable connected
16:17
"cable connected" (virtually)
16:18
<||cw>
but... bridged means it's connected to a physical nic...
16:18
<stevecook>
back in a min, juist going to try and load a virtual cd inside vb
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16:19
<stevecook>
Yes, bridged does indeed mean that. I am guessing that virtual box mnust asned out a signal to the host that fools the host into accepting that signal as a pshyscial connection to it's physical eth
16:20
<||cw>
no it puts the nic into promiscuous mode and sends packets with the guests's MAC address
16:20
<stevecook>
well, i'm not guiessing that is what it does. If i were to simply set up a normal eth connected workgropup type of client it would connct to the host via the "bridged connection" no proble, It's just the ltsp thin client that is having this difficulty
16:21
<||cw>
so if the physical nic is not connected to a switch, which would then bcast the dhcp packet back to the port...
16:22
<stevecook>
I'm not up on the technicals cw. all i know is that a virtual bridged connection is no problem with any other kind of VB client. Only the ltsp type of pxe boot client
16:22
But i don;t know whatt he problem, is
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16:23
<stevecook>
back in a mion, off to test the live cd
16:23
<||cw>
it's not fooling anything, or any trickery. it's simply promiscuous mode, which allows the nic and tcp stack to send any mac address, and receive any mac address that shows up on its switch port. if the switch is not connected, or not sending the guest packet back on the port, then it's not going to work
16:23
<stevecook>
fine
16:23
I don;t want or need to get into the detials cw, i need practical advice as to what i specifically need to do
16:24
the bridged connection is set up in the usual way
16:24
for virtuasl box
16:24
<||cw>
right, I'm just not sure that is something that will work on all hardware.
16:24
so, test live cd, test vbox on another pc
16:25
<stevecook>
will do
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16:36
<||cw>
vagrantc: ever try to use vbox on an ltsp host to pxe boot a thin client guest, for testing
16:37
<vagrantc>
i used to use vbox, but mostly i use libvirt/kvm now
16:38
i've used all possible combinations, though ...
16:38
<||cw>
so it should work with a bridged nic in vbox?
16:38
<vagrantc>
(i.e. virtual client, real server ; real client, virtual server; virtual client , virtual server)
16:39
if they're stillusing macvtap, you'll have issues ... but a real bridge *should* work.
16:39
but i havent used virtualbox in maybe 5 years or so
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16:48
<johnsonmlw>
Hi all. Debian wheezy, trying to set up ltsp pnp. When I run ltsp-update-image --cleanup / I get error mount point /tmp/tmp.YiqpfpCzPL/rofs/home/shares does not exist
16:49
<vagrantc>
hrm.
16:49
<johnsonmlw>
I'm following Vagrant's instructions, found in this conversation: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.terminal-server.general/30843
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16:51
<vagrantc>
my guess is you have /home/shares on the server as a mountpoint that isn't getting handled correctly
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16:53
<johnsonmlw>
Hi there. Nice to meet you. Thanks. Might be to do with NFS exports... I'll have a look.
16:55
Sorted. Thank you.
16:59* vagrantc likes when a single comment produces such results!
17:00
<vagrantc>
i was expecting to be debugging that for at least 15 minutes :)
17:00
!map
17:00
<ltsp>
I do not know about 'map', but I do know about these similar topics: 'worldmap'
17:00
<vagrantc>
!worldmap | echo johnsonmlw
17:00
<ltsp>
johnsonmlw worldmap: If you're using LTSP, please let the world know and share your story at http://www.ltsp.org/stories/ Your can add a nice pin to our world map at your location, plus your setup will count towards the global LTSP usage statistics.
17:01
<johnsonmlw>
Will do. We have it installed at a junior school in Hertfordshire, UK. 240 users, 70 machines. Sweet.
17:02
Fatal overlayfs is okay, right?
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17:07
<brianr>
running chrome on two different terminals at once by the same user ... is this possible?
17:08
seems to just open on the first terminal when starting it from a second
17:09
<vagrantc>
johnsonmlw: yeah, overlayfs isn't in debian, but it falls back to aufs
17:10
might be nice to quiet that down...
17:10
i think the code does: force_load overlayfs || force_load aufs
17:10
might be able to do a less noisy check
17:50
<johnsonmlw>
Understood - thanks
18:08
<||cw>
brianr: no, because it'll lock its profile
18:08
not a lot of apps are OK with having the same user logged in 2 times
18:11
brianr: if there's way to logically categorize the instances, you can use chrome's --user-data-dir=DIR option to use a different profile for each instance
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18:16
<vagrantc>
better to just log in with multiple users.
18:17
<alkisg>
stevecook: use the pcnet iii type for nic, because the intel one requires closed firmware for pxe, which isn't available unless you install the vbox extensions
18:17* alkisg waves
18:17
<vagrantc>
oh wow
18:18
what intel nic does it emulate?
18:18
i think qemu uses intel nics by default, and they all worked fine last i looked
18:18
<alkisg>
3 variants of intel pro 1000
18:18
qemu uses ipxe, vbox too works with ipxe
18:19
I don't think qemu has intel bios for pxe either
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18:19
<vagrantc>
so ipxe is the firmware?
18:19
<alkisg>
No, the virtualbox extension pack has the intel bios for pxe
18:20
http://img2.51cto.com/attachments/month_1109/20110930_3f1fc89d11d7d964df3fgANG6s8yFUs0.jpg
18:20
<vagrantc>
just not understanding what's missing ... i use qemu+ipxe to pxe boot without any other firmware/bios
18:20
<alkisg>
The line about Copyright 1997-2000 Intel there
18:21
<vagrantc>
so if vbox can use ipxe... ?
18:21
<alkisg>
And all the pxe messages after that
18:21
One can tell the client to boot from a virtual floppy or cd, sure
18:21
It's just that "network boot" doesn't work, from the vbox "bios"
18:22
And, if someone installs the vbox extension pack, then intel "network boot" also works, from the "bios", without an ipxe floppy/cd
18:22
<vagrantc>
so it can't use the ipxe roms directly?
18:23
<alkisg>
I haven't seen any how-to's about that, so I suspect "no"
18:35
http://etherboot.org/wiki/romburning/vbox
18:35
So "yes, from the command line"
18:35
vboxmanage setextradata $VM_NAME VBoxInternal/Devices/pcbios/0/Config/LanBootRom /path/to/10222000.rom
18:37
(and with a bit of python-padding the rom etc)
18:38
<vagrantc>
heh.
18:45
<johnsonmlw>
Wheezy, ltsp-pnp, lts.conf: LTSP_FATCLIENT=False seems to have no effect. Still booting as fat client. Any ideas?
18:46
I have a couple of years experience with ubuntu 12.04 running classic ltsp. But Debian AND ltsp-pnp are both new
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19:03
<vagrantc>
where did you edit lts.conf?
19:03
ltsp-config lts.conf
19:03
that'll create a default one for you
19:03
and hopefully tell you where...
19:12
<johnsonmlw>
Yes, I ran that and editted it. /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/amd64/lts.conf - perhaps it's in the wrong place foe wheezy install
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19:23
<vagrantc>
it might default to trying to use i386 in your dhcp configuration
19:40
<alkisg>
!screen_08
19:40
<ltsp>
screen_08: To get a root shell on a Debian thin client, put SCREEN_07=ldm, SCREEN_08=shell and SCREEN_DEFAULT=07 to lts.conf.
19:40
<alkisg>
Try getltscfg -a there
19:40
johnsonmlw: ^
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20:08
<stevecook>
okay, sorry about the dealu folks. Got called away.
20:09
have tested ubuntu live cd on vb client and it can see the eth via bridged connection and can connect to internet through it
20:10
have tested vb on another machine that is physicalyl connected ot ltsp server via eth cable. when vb thin client is booted, it can connec tto ltsp on host machine
20:10
so, this means thin vb client only has problems seeing host eth when the vb client is residing in vb that is, itself, residing in host ltsp server
20:11
help!
20:11
:)
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20:18
<stevecook>
To be a little clearer:
20:20
I have tested a virtual machine by booting it from a linux live ISO, all running inside Virtualbox which is, in turn, running inside my host ltsp server. It was set to a network bridged connection. It booted without issue and it also saw the host eth without issue. Consequently, it was able to connect to the internet via the host.
20:21
<a1234>
hi why is ltsp not there for redhat distros?
20:21
sorry i am new at this i am just starting to research; before i actually setup thin clients and all
20:22
<stevecook>
I then tested a virtual thin client running inside virtualbox that was, itself, running inside a phsycially seperate PC that was, in turn, phsychically connected, eth to eth, to the ltsp server. The virtual machine pxe booted without issue and connected to the host ltsp server via the eth to eth connection between the sperate Pc and the ltsp server.
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20:24
<stevecook>
The thin client's setting were identical on the host virtual box and the virtual box on the seperate PC. which means it is a problem between the host ltsp server and the virtual box running inside it
20:24
and not the setting of the virtual thin client, per se
20:25
hi a1234. foprgive me talking over you mate, it's a continuation of ap revious conversation
20:26
<a1234>
hey stevecook its cool :) you continue
20:26
<stevecook>
cheers mate. I think i was too long away, though and they've all buggered off!
20:27
<a1234>
are you one of the developers with ltsp? :)
20:28
<stevecook>
hahaha are you kidding! lol. I am just a numpty with far more ambition than his meagre intellect has a right to expect
20:29
<a1234>
hehe
20:30
<stevecook>
I've managed to set up an ltsp server running on a 32 bit ubuntu 12,04 lts. It all works and so far so good,. however, for testing purposes, i want to be able to set up some virtual thin clients inside the server itself, in something called virtualbox and, unfortunately, virtualbox is not playing ball
20:30
<a1234>
nice
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20:39
<stevecook>
anyone on board at the monent who can help me with my virtual box thin client problem
20:39
?
20:41
<vagrantc>
!ask
20:41
<ltsp>
ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
20:48
<stevecook>
The question mark was not posted on its own in order to ask to ask a question or as some kind of emphatic. It was posted because I forgot to properly gramamtically submit the immediately previous post and so was an addendum to that immediately previous post. with regards to waiting for a potential answer, no problem.
20:54
I should also add that I have the extension pack for virtual box installed and so its absence, as a problem, can be ruled out
20:59
<vagrantc>
it sounds like an issue with macvtap
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21:00
<vagrantc>
stevecook: with macvtap, virtual machines cannot access the host's interface
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21:01
<vagrantc>
stevecook: so a virtual server can server up virtual machines on other physical computers, but not to anything hosted on the same physical hardware.
21:01
stevecook: i'd suggest tweaking the bridge settings and seeing what the options are
21:01
<a1234>
hey which thin clients do you suggest?
21:02
and which distro is recommended? i am fan of redhat but i can'
21:02
can't find one in the support list for ltsp?
21:02
<stevecook>
Thanks for that advice vagrantc. I'll go and have a fiddle around with the settings and report back if I manage to get round the problem.
21:03
Hi again a1234. I can state from my own personal experience of trying ltsp out with various linux distros, that ubuntu has proved the easiest
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21:16
<stevecook>
One final question before I disappear vagrantc: I am lacking in technical expertise and so the next question may be silly. But, it occurs to me that since ordinary since virtualbox client machines don't have problem connecting to a host via a bridged connection, would it be possible to connect the virtual thin clent to the host by tunnelling a connection through another "ordinary" virtual client that was connected to the host?
21:20
<vagrantc>
hrm.
21:21
you can do whatever networking you want in libvirt, i have no idea with virtualbox :P
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21:57
<brianr>
nbd_server[3385]: Negotiation failed/4: Connection reset by peer
21:57
^ anyone got a hint for this?
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