IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 11 August 2014   (all times are UTC)

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09:29
<Guest24382>
Hi, LTSP clients wont shutdown completely
09:29
Can anyone help
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20:52
<talntid>
is LTSP still really developed?
20:52
the last news on the site is from Jan 2013
20:54
<||cw>
it is. updating the website has never been a strong point. the launchpad wiki is updated often though
20:54
<talntid>
ok, cool :)
21:00
do you know where a changelog is? I have 5.2.1, looks like latest is 5.4.5 - curious what is different, but don't really want to go through all the commit messages?
21:01
<||cw>
not offhand
21:01
<alkisg>
!learn changelog as http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vagrantc/ltsp/ltsp-debian-packaging/view/head:/changelog
21:01
<ltsp>
The operation succeeded.
21:04
<vagrantc>
alkisg: well, that's pretty debian specific
21:04
and i don't document *every* change...
21:04
<alkisg>
vagrantc: do we have a better one elsewhere?
21:04
<vagrantc>
i guess not... :(
21:04
<alkisg>
:)
21:04
You're da man then :)
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21:13
<talntid>
thanks! =]
21:14
I have been running a 70-person call center on LTSP for 6 years
21:14
and now I am considering uprading the whole setup
21:16
have seen some performance issues, maybe they've been worked out by now
21:18
<vagrantc>
depends on your setup.
21:18
glad to hear it's been working for you!
21:19
talntid: you might consider adding your site the to worldmap:
21:19
!worldmap | echo talntid
21:19
<ltsp>
talntid worldmap: If you're using LTSP, please let the world know and share your story at http://www.ltsp.org/stories/ Your can add a nice pin to our world map at your location, plus your setup will count towards the global LTSP usage statistics.
21:20
<talntid>
it's been working great, except a bit sluggish :-)
21:20
<vagrantc>
thin client, fat client, localapps??
21:20
<talntid>
thin client with localapps
21:20
<vagrantc>
software has gotten a bit bloated lately, and much software is written without thinkng about ipact on the thin client model...
21:20
<talntid>
only thing they use is web browser
21:20
which is firefox
21:21
<vagrantc>
on unbuntu?
21:21
<talntid>
yes
21:21
<vagrantc>
er, ubuntu :)
21:21
<talntid>
it runs as a localapp. if i don't, it chokes the server out
21:21
<vagrantc>
right, 70 firefoxes would be pretty ugly
21:21
talntid: would you be able to run the whole session locally as a fat client?
21:21
talntid: that might actually perform better
21:22
<talntid>
each machine has 2gb ram, 2.4ghz processor
21:22
no HDD
21:22
<vagrantc>
well, LTSP has a feature call FATCLIENT which is essentially like localapps, but for the whole session.
21:22
!fatclient
21:22
<ltsp>
I do not know about 'fatclient', but I do know about these similar topics: 'fatclients', 'fatclient-printers'
21:23
<vagrantc>
!fatclients
21:23
<ltsp>
fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
21:23
<talntid>
right. but doesn't it somewhat defeat the purpose?
21:23* vagrantc wonders how dated that is
21:23
<talntid>
it downloads and runs the whole image as if it is a livecd, right?
21:23
<vagrantc>
no, it only downloads the bits actually used
21:24
if all you're running is a web browser, the you may as well run the session locally as well.
21:24
you're already downloading the biggest part (the web browser)
21:24
this is not to be confused with non-LTSP disked "fat" clients.
21:25
everything still runs over the network, it's just more processes running on the client hardware.
21:25
<talntid>
well, so, think that'd be better, or..
21:25
beef up the server?
21:26
<vagrantc>
the server is probably not your bottleneck ... or is the server load always high?
21:26
if you're using sshfs homedirs, that might be an issue
21:26
70 sshfs homedirs could add up...
21:26
talntid: basically, identify where your bottleneck is before trying to "solve" slowness problems :)
21:28
<talntid>
I am using nfsmounts for homedirs
21:28
i think.
21:28
lol
21:28
on the ltsp server, it...
21:29
nfsmounts homedirs that are on my file server
21:29
then i guess the ltsp sessions are sshfs mounting the homedirs
21:29
from the ltsp server
21:30
load average: 0.26, 0.17, 0.16
21:31
8core 2.6ghz, 8gb ram
21:37
<||cw>
if the homedirs are not local on the ltsp host then an easy optimization is to have the clients nfs mount them directly
21:38
since the default behavious would have you transferring the data 2 times over the network
21:38
<talntid>
yeah
21:38
<||cw>
but, that still may not be a huge issue
21:39
<talntid>
the whole system isn't too slow. just, wish it was a bit snappier
21:41
<||cw>
for thin client, 8GB ram for 70 clients a pretty weak
21:42
fat client should do better than thin client localapps, or at least look/feel more native
21:42
are the clients 100mbit?
21:44
<talntid>
yes
21:49
<||cw>
so keep in mind you basically have a 9MB/s disk, not including application network traffic
21:50
any action that has to read from the mapped disk is going to be kinda slow
21:59
<talntid>
think I should drop a bunch of GB cards in it?
21:59
in the thin clients
22:00
$700 gets them all outfitted
22:00
the rest of the network is gbit
22:02
<vagrantc>
they'll take a new network card?
22:03* vagrantc seconds ||cw's suggestions
22:03
<talntid>
yeah, they will
22:03
<vagrantc>
talntid: nothing like trying on a small number to see if it's worth it
22:04
<talntid>
http://www.pc-freak.net/images/IBM_desktop_thinkcentre.jpg
22:04
thats what they are
22:04
<vagrantc>
not too thin looking :)
22:04
<talntid>
yeah, hah
22:04
<alkisg>
talntid: Is /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img compressed?
22:05
<talntid>
i have 50 wyse thin clients if anyone wants to buy them, lol...
22:05
<alkisg>
For some versions, Ubuntu used to not compress it by default
22:05
<talntid>
they ran like poop :(
22:05
i don't know if it is compressed, alkisg
22:05
<alkisg>
Which Ubuntu version?
22:06
<||cw>
the OS image should be compressed, but web browsers do a lot of IO on $HOME
22:06
<talntid>
the ltsp host is 10.04. (i know, i know.)
22:06
<alkisg>
!nbd-compression
22:06
<ltsp>
nbd-compression: In Ubuntu >= 10.04, to make your clients go faster, you can reenable NBD compression: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients#Reenabling_NBD_compression
22:06
<alkisg>
||cw: in 10.04 it was not compressed by default
22:06
So, by enabling compression, it would speed up nbd access 2.5 times
22:06
<vagrantc>
and is also well out of support, no?
22:06
<||cw>
yeah but 10.04 is EOL, so who still uses that :P
22:07
<talntid>
people who don't want to rebuild ltsp from scratch again. lol
22:07
<vagrantc>
lots of people
22:07* ||cw still uses it, but did read the guide and did enable compression
22:07
<talntid>
it was a pain in the ass to get working in the first place
22:07
<||cw>
yes it was
22:07
<talntid>
so I want to leave it working while I build a new one
22:07
<||cw>
especially with 3M touch screens
22:07
<alkisg>
!ltsp-pnp | echo talntid:
22:07
<ltsp>
talntid: ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
22:07
<talntid>
I have a server sitting with 192gb ram, 4x8core procs
22:07
<alkisg>
That's a really easy way to get fat clients running ^
22:09
EOL for 10.04: May 9, 2013 (Desktop) April 2015 (Server)
22:09
<vagrantc>
talntid: no guarantees, but i think more recent versions have a number of features that will make it much easier to set up
22:09
<talntid>
I think I'll do a migration sometime soon
22:09
<vagrantc>
alkisg: and LTSP uses mostly Desktop components
22:09
just because it's a "server", doesn't mean it's supported.
22:10
<alkisg>
Sure, but it's nice to have a supported kernel, ssh, nbd etc
22:11
<vagrantc>
core components are still "supported", sure.
22:11
<alkisg>
talntid: those clients are pentium 4? Which graphics cards?
22:11
Because you might have graphics issues if you upgrade to an unsupported version of xorg
22:11
<talntid>
they are p4, yes
22:12
hold, lemme check the gfx
22:12
<alkisg>
E.g. if they have cards based on XAA, you should either stick to 10.04, or upgrade to at most 12.04.1, not more than .1
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22:13
<alkisg>
Also, P4 is the reason they're sluggish, and they'll be more so in more recent versions
22:13
lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA
22:13
(ltsp-localapps xterm first)
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23:36
<talntid>
Ark74, yeah, I am not near one of my thin clients right now, or I'd look =D