IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 1 November 2008   (all times are UTC)

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00:38
<Ryan52>
00:57
<sbalneav>
Hahha, I'll make vagrant happy
00:57
warren too.
00:58
<Ryan52>
why?
00:58
well, not why, but how :)
00:58
<sbalneav>
Turns out some of the timing problems they've been having are due to timing problems with the X server starting.
00:58
So, we spawn X, but begin doing things on the X server before it's actually ready to work.
00:58
Sooooo.
00:59
<Ryan52>
ah
00:59
<sbalneav>
Turns out, if you spawn the X server with SIGUSR1 set to SIG_IGN, X takes this as a hint that, when you've got everything plumbed...
00:59
it'll send a SIGUSR1 to the parent process. In this case, ldm.
00:59
So, all we need to do is:
01:00
use ldm_spawn to start X, with an additional helper function that sets SIGUSR1 to SIG_IGN
01:01
Then, before we do anything else, block, using sigsuspend() in a loop, waiting for SIGUSR1
01:01
then, when we get it, we know X is fully started, and we can continue plumbing the connection.
01:01
Race conditions... fixed!
01:02
I'll code it up tomorrow.
01:02* sbalneav is so happy.
01:02
<sbalneav>
That'll make things more reliable.
01:13
I'm up late.
01:13
I'm still wired.
01:13
And I'm feelin' feisty.
01:13
FLAME WAR TIME.
01:14
K&R bracing style for C coding is The One True Style, and anyone who thinks different is a HEATHEN!
01:17
<Ryan52>
heh
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03:51
<warren>
Is any wireless card capable of doing netboot?
03:51* warren is wondering if he should blacklist all wireless drivers from auto-loading.
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06:00
<ogra>
warren, we dont include any wlan drivers in the ubuntu/debian initramfs
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06:01
<ogra>
warren, (for netbooting that is)
06:14
<warren>
ogra: yeah, I just removed them all from my initrd
06:14
ogra: some of them can cause boot problems because it loads without firmware available
06:16
<ogra>
thats bad
06:16
(no such pobs in ubuntu though, but it shrinks the initrd massively)
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06:17
<warren>
it is only a problem due to kernel bugs
06:17
they never test it without firmware
06:18
one example of badness is airo
06:21
<ogra>
wel, why should they test without firmware :)
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11:38
<cliebow>
jammcq:you were asking about wireless antenna?
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12:03
<Nubae>
hey is create usb startup disk a intrepid only thing, or is it hardy with updates too?
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12:51
<cliebow>
jammcq:??
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13:47
<vagrantc>
well, looks like i'll just have a patched ltspfs 0.5.3 nearly identical to 0.5.5 rather than 0.5.5 ... heh. :)
13:48
<alkisg>
vagrantc, I do want to test debian ltsp sometime... maybe when lenny is out! :)
13:48
I'm installing an LTSP server (Intrepid) and I only have my laptop as a TC to test the server. Boots OK but kbd/mouse do not work under X. I can press Ctrl+Alt+F1 and logon to the TC console though. Xorg.7.log says "Cannot locate a core pointer device" and to reconfigure HAL or disable AllowEmptyInput. Any ideas?
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13:57
<vagrantc>
alkisg: lenny will be out ... someday :)
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13:57
<vagrantc>
alkisg: but it's reasonably stable ... don't see a lot of changes day-to-day.
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14:09
<Nubae>
alkisg: weird one
14:10
<alkisg>
Nubae, I got the keyboard working temporarily by creating a xorg.conf, putting allowemptyinput and restarting X (all these on the TC)
14:10
<Nubae>
did u set CONFIGURE_X=True?
14:10
<alkisg>
Anyway, this will do for now!!! I don't have other TCs here, grrr...
14:11
Nubae, no, I didn't try it. I'll try it now...
14:11
<Nubae>
ah wait not necessary for keyboard and mouse in theory
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14:16
<alkisg>
Nubae, magic! It worked!! (damned if I know why...)
14:17
Err... only keyboard worked, no touchpad, no usb mouse... :(
14:17
Anyway, this will have to do, it's for server testing anyhow
14:17
<Nubae>
well then maybe u need to tweak the mouse, touchpad
14:18
I mean the x_keyb and x_mouse settings or whatever they are called
14:18
<ogra>
Nubae, usb-creator is intrepid only
14:18
<Nubae>
ogra: ok, thanks
14:18* Nubae put his foot in his mouth by anouncing that was available for hardy too :p
14:19
<ogra>
you can use hardy isos with it i think
14:19
but it will only run on intrepid
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15:05
<mr_claus>
hi, i get a lot of "Read: Connection refused" errors while booting ltsp from the network, is there are problem with finding the nfs export?
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16:33
<stgraber>
sbalneav: around ?
16:34
I was looking at my backlog and at the BTS wiki page. I find the idea of having a xrandr script interesting except that this one should be started before ldmgtkgreet. Is that something you can implement ? (let's say /usr/share/ldm/rc.d/P* got executed after X but before the greeter) ?
16:34
then we could have xrandr and xsetkbmap started as pre-ldm scripts
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16:50
<vagrantc>
stgraber: we have /usr/share/ldm/rc.d/I*
16:50
stgraber: post-X, pre-greeter
16:53
<stgraber>
oh, that's great :)
16:53
<vagrantc>
stgraber: i just implemented setxkbmap and numlockx stuff using that.
16:54
what all can you do with xrandr, besides turn your screen upside down?
16:54
set the resolution and color depth?
16:55
<stgraber>
resolution, screen rotation, dual-head
16:55
add/remove/switch modes too
16:55
and probably more with randr 1.3 (current is 1.2, 1.3 is being specced)
16:55
<vagrantc>
i tried playing with the commandline client the other day but couldn't figure out the syntax
16:55
that would sure beat hacking up the xorg.conf :)
16:56
<stgraber>
xrandr --output VGA --mode 1024x768 --left-of LVDS
16:56
for example
16:56
<petre>
dual head would be cool
16:56
<stgraber>
on my lappy that adds a 1024x768 screen connected to the VGA output left of my laptop
16:57
only probably with randr 1.2, you need to set a Virtual resolution that must be bigger than the total resolution of all your display
16:57
<vagrantc>
hrm.
16:57
<stgraber>
so here I have: 1680x1050 (my lappy), if I want to add a 1024x768 screen to the left of it, I'll need the Virtual resolution to be at least 2704x1050
16:58
it's the only thing that makes dual-head difficult on Linux at the moment :(
16:58
<vagrantc>
can you change the virtual resolution with xrandr itself, at least?
16:58
<stgraber>
no, that's the problem
16:58
<vagrantc>
ah.
16:58
<stgraber>
the Virtual resolution needs to be hardcoded in xorg.conf :(
16:59
<petre>
stgraber, why can't it be changed with xrandr?
16:59
oh
16:59
<vagrantc>
well, it at least sounds useful for setting resolution and color depth :)
16:59
<stgraber>
petre: ask a Xorg developer ... I'd love it to just not exist :)
16:59
<jammcq>
there's several ways to do dual-head on Linux
16:59
<stgraber>
vagrantc: yeah and supporting it correctly will make dual-head easier when that limitation will disappear
17:00
<jammcq>
depending on the chipset you have
17:00
<vagrantc>
how do you get a list of valid outputs?
17:00
<stgraber>
vagrantc: just run xrandr
17:00
you'll get something like: default connected 1680x1050+0+0 0mm x 0mm
17:00
that's for the "default" output
17:01
<vagrantc>
yeah.
17:01
<stgraber>
on my EEE (Intel board), xrandr shows me: VGA (disconnected) and LVDS (connected 1024x600)
17:02
jammcq: yeah, randr is the way to setup clone/dual-head for cards with a standard open source driver, then ATI and Nvidia have their own stuff with the binary drives
17:02
*drivers
17:02
<vagrantc>
great!
17:02
<petre>
I never could get dual head to work with Feisty on my Dell w/ Intel video
17:03
<stgraber>
on my lappy I have a Radeon HD with the binary driver and I can setup a dual-head without having to touch my xorg.conf, but that's not using RANDR, it uses some kind of binary daemon to trigger some stuff
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17:03
<alkisg>
stgraber, nvidia does support xrandr
17:03
<stgraber>
alkisg: oh ? so the Nvidia tool is just a frontend to randr now ?
17:03
<alkisg>
stgraber, no :) but both are supported
17:03
<stgraber>
ATI pretends to support RANDR but in fact they only support the resolution change part of it :) not the dual-head part
17:04
<alkisg>
I don't know how well it supports it, but I can do dual head with my laptop without going to nvidia-settings
17:04
<stgraber>
cool
17:04
that's a big improvement
17:04
(I'd love to have that with my ATI :), on my Intel computers I have some .desktop to start the dual-head and I can't script the ATI stuff)
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17:06* stgraber is finishing the installation of the LTSP-Cluster demo/developement server. It'll have: firefox (+flash and java), skype, audacity and blender as localapps
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20:25
<sbalneav>
Everning all
20:25
<jammcq>
Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
20:26
figured you'd be at the cottage this weekend
20:26
<sbalneav>
Nope, shut 'er down last weekend.
20:27
<stgraber>
evening sbalneav
20:28
<sbalneav>
Evening stgraber
20:30
<jammcq>
shut it down?
20:30
like.... not going again until the spring thaw?
20:30
<sbalneav>
Well, cleaned it up, drained the water system, etc.
20:30
<jammcq>
wow
20:31
<sbalneav>
I haven't got enough firewood this winter to make it economical to visit during the cold season.
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20:32
<sbalneav>
Plus, I need to build an outhouse, to combat the problem of a freezing septic system :)
20:32
<stgraber>
:)
20:33* stgraber is happy, he just got the webcam to work correctly with LTSP+localapp+skype+autologin
20:33
<jammcq>
hmm, that makes me have 2nd thoughts about visiting that cottage :)
20:34
<sbalneav>
Hey, outhouses are great! Economical, environmentally friendly, save on water, what's not to like? :)
20:34
<jammcq>
no internet
20:35
<stgraber>
jammcq: get a satellite link :)
20:35
<sbalneav>
What, wireless won't go 50 feet?
20:35
<jammcq>
no power
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20:35
<jammcq>
no heat
20:35
splinters
20:35
<sbalneav>
lol
20:35
Picky picky
20:35
<stgraber>
power => diesel generator, heat => firewood
20:35
<jammcq>
nothing worse than a butt splinter
20:36* sbalneav imagines an outhouse with a satellite link, dedicated 15kw diesel generator, and woodstove.
20:36
<stgraber>
:)
20:37* jammcq just isn't the "roughing it" kind a guy
20:37
<sbalneav>
So, don't come in the winter! :)
20:37
Summer's all indoor plumbing.
20:37
<jammcq>
ah, problem solved
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20:49* vagrantc wants an internet shack
20:51
<johnny>
helloz
20:51
<stgraber>
hi johnny
20:51
<johnny>
i finally have an ltsp terminal machine at home :)
20:52
now.. i just need to get a video card with svideo out...
20:55
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: So, I've figured out the correct way to handle the X server race condition.
20:55
I'm coding it up now.
20:58
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: cool.
20:59
sbalneav: regarding the cdpinger segfault patch, pere mentioned something about using function(void) instead of function() for functions that don't accept any arguments.
20:59
<sbalneav>
So, the way to handle it properly is:
20:59
vagrantc: yeah, saw that.
20:59
<vagrantc>
Ryan52 says all our ltsp code doesn't do that.
20:59
or most of it
20:59
or something like that
21:00
<sbalneav>
I learned C years and years ago, so I keep doing the old (and as pere points out, not proper style) function() and not function(void).
21:00
<stgraber>
oh, we are supposed to do function(void) in C ? :)
21:01
<sbalneav>
Let's go through at the hackfest, and take a quick shufty through the code, and fix any of those up.
21:01
<Ryan52>
stgraber: ya, otherwise it doesn't get mad if you try to do function(1,2,3)
21:02
<stgraber>
Ryan52: ah, because () means "I'll care of the parameters myself)" ?
21:02
<sbalneav>
yeah, it's that newfangled fancy-pants "ANSI" way of doing C. These young whippersnappers with their standards and their loud rock-n-roll music. What's an old-fart C programmer to do?
21:02
<stgraber>
:)
21:03* stgraber is installing openarena as localapp, so we can have some fun at the hackfest :)
21:03
<sbalneav>
When I learned programming, we didn't even have ones and zeros! All we had were zeros! And we *liked* it that way!
21:04
Heh.
21:05
I taught myself C in 1985. Anyone remember the "C Primer Plus" by the Waite group?
21:05
<stgraber>
well, except of iTalc I don't do much C/C++ anymore, most of my stuff are bash+python as most things can be done with that in a lot easier way than with compiled languages
21:05
<sbalneav>
Yeah, I've learned me bash pretty good, and I'm not completely useless with Python.
21:06
Anywho, we should fix those function prototypes up.
21:06
It's the right thing to do.
21:07
Do the needful.
21:08
vagrantc: anyway...
21:08
So the way to fix it is:
21:08indradg|afk has quit IRC
21:08
<sbalneav>
When we spawn the X server, we set SIGUSR1 to SIG_IGN
21:09
Then X will send a SIGUSR1 to it's parent process (ldm) when all it's input methods are plumbed, and it's ready to rock-n-roll.
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21:09
<sbalneav>
ldm just sits in a nice sigsuspend() loop, waiting for SIGUSR1
21:10
When we drop out the bottom, X is ready to go.
21:11
<stgraber>
sbalneav: btw, while you are dealing with signals in LDM, can you also add catchall for keyboard input in ldm ? so we can then add <tab> = <enter> (to have a gdm-like behavior)
21:12
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: sounds good to me!
21:12
<sbalneav>
stgraber: We'd have to do that in the greeter
21:13
<stgraber>
hmm, right, not the same part of ldm
21:13
<sbalneav>
Not sure how to do that, I'd have to look up the gtk funtion reference.
21:13
I think there's a way to do that for input fields, but I'd have to look it up.
21:13
<vagrantc>
it's probably gtk_emulate_gdm_enter_tab_behavior_foo_magic_thingy()
21:14
<stgraber>
(it's one of the problem reported by our gdm => ldm migration testers)
21:14
<vagrantc>
just xmodmap it in the rc.d/I* and then switch it back with rc.d/S*
21:14* vagrantc grins
21:14
<stgraber>
vagrantc: hmm, I wonder why it sounds like a hack to me :)
21:16
<sbalneav>
gtk_insanely_long_function_name_because_we_make_functions_up_for_whenever_theres_two_lines_of_code_that_can_be_turned_into_a_function_even_though_the_function_name_is_longer_than_the_two_lines()
21:16
Ooops
21:16
gtk_insanely_long_function_name_because_we_make_functions_up_for_whenever_theres_two_lines_of_code_that_can_be_turned_into_a_function_even_though_the_function_name_is_longer_than_the_two_lines(void)
21:17
<stgraber>
:)
21:17
<sbalneav>
heh
21:17
IT'S A META-JOKE PEOPLE!! THIS IS MY BEST STUFF HERE!
21:18
Geez, it's either me or Gadi's "Your mama's thin client" jokes, take your pick. :)
21:18
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: i can't speak honestly without gadi being present.
21:18
it just ain't right.
21:18
<sbalneav>
lol
21:19* sbalneav taps mike
21:19
<jammcq>
hahahahahahahahahahahahahah
21:19
is that better?
21:19
<sbalneav>
Is this thing on... Is this thing on?!?
21:19
heh
21:21* vagrantc listens to the feedback
21:22
<sbalneav>
So, does anyone else get this errormessage from bzr?
21:22
Server is too old for streaming pull, reconnecting. (Upgrade the server to Bazaar 1.2 to avoid this)
21:22
I'dve thought that LP would be at the latest of whatever
21:23
Or do I need some magic glue in my bazaar.conf?
21:24
<stgraber>
sbalneav: it's the branch that isn't up to date, not the server
21:24
sbalneav: bzr upgrade "remote URL"
21:25
<sbalneav>
oh, ok
21:25
<stgraber>
(do a backup before you do that, just in case you break the branch server-side)
21:26
<sbalneav>
sbalneav@phobos:~/Devel/bzr/ldm-trunk-sbalneav$ bzr upgrade lp:~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk
21:26
bzr: ERROR: The branch format Bazaar-NG meta directory, format 1 is already at the most recent format.
21:26
I'm taking it that my branch is ok?
21:27
<vagrantc>
no!
21:28
please don't upgrade the remote branch.
21:28
we had agreed to a particular repository format.
21:28
<sbalneav>
It's my own branch
21:28
<vagrantc>
oh.
21:29
~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk sounds an awful lot like the upstream branch
21:29
<sbalneav>
Well, I was merging from that.
21:29
<vagrantc>
should all be pack-0.92 format ...
21:29
<sbalneav>
So don't I want my branch to be the same format as trunk?
21:30
How can I find out?
21:30* johnny hopes the bzr people allow other shortcuts than lp
21:30* johnny finds it shortsighted not to make it configurable
21:30
<johnny>
i question their motives sometimes..
21:30
<sbalneav>
Submit patches.
21:30
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: the fun thing is, i have no idea. because bzr reports one type, but all the bzr FOO --type sort of options use different names.
21:30
<johnny>
yeah.. it's lame
21:31
too many branch formats
21:31
<vagrantc>
at least 2 with each upstream version!
21:31
maybe a slight exadgeration, but not so much.
21:32
<sbalneav>
whatever, I'll just do what I always do. I'll just let people merge from my branch.
21:32
<stgraber>
we had to go with 1.0 rich-root-pack for ltsp-cluster as it was imported from SVN ... that breaks compatibility with a good part of bzr client
21:32
<vagrantc>
ugh.
21:34
<stgraber>
sbalneav: what happens if you go in ldm-trunk and do : bzr merge ../ldm-trunk-sbalneav
21:35
<sbalneav>
dunno.
21:35
The error message never stops me from doing things, I just wondered if it was normal.
21:35
I'll ignore it for now :)
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21:48
<stgraber>
yeah !!! OpenArena running on a thin client :)
21:48
ok, that's Atom based thin client and that's localapp but still :)
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21:51
<johnny>
shouldn't rich root pack be the default in bzr?
21:51
since later 1.x releases?
21:53
<stgraber>
not sure, I just looked at a branch I recently created on Intrepid and it was 0.92
21:53
<johnny>
hmm.. odd
21:53
weirdos
21:53* johnny kicks bzr in the face
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22:55
<sbalneav>
Whoohoo.
22:55
Works
22:57
<stgraber>
and now I have Compiz working on the thin client :)
22:58
<ltsppbot>
"sbalneav" pasted "diff's for X race removal" (165 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/87
23:00
<sbalneav>
Probably should set the handler for SIGUSR1 back to default SIG_IGN afterwards, I'll worry about that tomorrow.
23:00
In the meantime, x_session() doesn't return until X has started and ready to go.
23:01
<jammcq>
sbalneav: good job
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23:16
<sbalneav>
Night all, heading to bed.
23:18
<stgraber>
night
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