IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 15 May 2007   (all times are UTC)

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02:35
<highvoltage>
/wi/win 14
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05:20
<MM2>
My HP vectra (desktop) says PXE-T04: missing mode when booting client for edubuntu
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06:02
<envite>
Hello all from Spain
06:02
Hola a todos desde España
06:05
<cliebow>
envite Hola!!
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06:22
<envite>
re
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06:44
<ogra>
jammcq, i can even on an XDMCP connection see how the e2300 draws the windows ... i think its a general slowness thing with it ... apart from that the shielding is crap, i have diagonal stipes flickering across the screen with the 50Hz of german power lines ...
06:46
<envite>
ogra: I've used the 2300
06:46* kaminski-ltsp-br is back
06:46
<kaminski-ltsp-br>
;)
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06:46
<envite>
I changed the BIOS settings and that fastered it a bit
06:47
<ogra>
envite, which ones ?
06:47
<envite>
ogra: a moment
06:47
<ogra>
i know its slow but i didnt expect it to be *that* slow
06:48
<envite>
BIOS Poner memoria compartida (Shared Graphics Memory) a 64M
06:48
Quizá sea demasiado, pero hemos comprobado que va bien. --Envite 15:16 4 abr 2007 (CEST) Poner ventana gráfica (Graphics Memory Win) a 64M
06:48
Su límite es lo establecido en la anterior. Poner tarjeta gráfica de PCI a AGP Poner velocidad de bus ISA a 33.3
06:48
<ogra>
scrolling firefox is no fun if you want it to stop at the right position
06:48
<envite>
well, I'll translate
06:48
BIOS Shared Graphics Memory to 64M
06:48
BIOS Graphics Memory Win to 64M
06:49
BIOS Graphics Adapter mode from PCI to AGP
06:49
BIOS change ISA bus speed to 33.3
06:49
that four things is what I did
06:49
and I noted significant speedup
06:49
<ogra>
ok, i'll try
06:50
i noticed booting with nolapic and noacip helps a bit
06:50
but not significantly enough
06:50
lets see what the bios does
06:52
<envite>
the actual graphics memory is very low in factory default settings
06:54
<ogra>
yeah
06:54
and the ISA bus is set to 8Mhz
06:55
<envite>
it must not affect, but it does not affect
06:56
maybe slowing the isa bus slows everything in the cpu?
06:58
<ogra>
yeah, might be ... i'm just stopwatching a boot now, lets see if we get under 3 mins
06:58
we sat in sevilla for one week ... your brightest ltsp programmers came together to fix it ...
06:59
do you think one of us ever thought to look into the bios
06:59* ogra shakes his head
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07:00
<envite>
that's worth killing you all
07:01
Agustin Benito (my commander in chief) was there in Sevilla and he's telling me that he tell you all to look at the BIOS
07:01
the mEDUXa guy
07:01
hahahahahahahahahahahaha
07:01
<ogra>
i dont remember that
07:01
well, 3:28 is no improvement
07:01
<envite>
not at booting
07:01
but I noted it while running graphical pps
07:02
<ogra>
even though i'm using the old and slow ldm ... the new one should shove off 30 secs here
07:02
but thats still 3 mins ..
07:02
<envite>
it is not the same to wait 60s for OpenOffice to open than to wait 30s
07:03
<ogra>
indeed
07:03
but lsp 4.2 does it under one minute
07:03
<jammcq>
ogra: even general running isn't slow in ltsp-4.2
07:03
it boots faster, it runs faster, I just don't understand what ltsp-5 is doing to it, to make it so slow
07:04
<ogra>
well, the bios change made it a bit more snappy on the desktop
07:04
<highvoltage>
*sigh*
07:04
<ogra>
but only minimally
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07:05
<ogra>
the scrolling is still delayed ... but at least usable
07:05
<envite>
ok
07:05
<jammcq>
envite: I did try the bios settings earlier, and didn't notice a significant improvement
07:05
when I asked Agustin to help, he said he knew of some improvements, but didn't have the specifics and he said he'd get back to me
07:05
<envite>
jammcq: I didn't noted it at boot, but I really noted it at desktop working
07:05
<ogra>
the nolapic and noacpi switches gave me about 15 secs bootime
07:06
<jammcq>
ogra: "saved" 15 secs?
07:06
<ogra>
from 3:45 to 3:30
07:06
<jammcq>
ok, but boot again, we noticed inconsistencies in boot times
07:06
<ogra>
i noticed that acpi is off in the bios let me enable it and drop the noacpi switch now
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07:11
<jsgotangco>
pardon my ignorance and butting in, but what is an e2300?
07:12
<envite>
e2300 is a shorthand name for
07:12
ebox e2300
07:13
a thin client
07:13
<jsgotangco>
ahhh ive heard of the ebox
07:13
thanks :D
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07:15
<envite>
http://www.norhtec.com/products/mcjr/index.html
07:16
<cliebow_>
envite:i pursued those some..cost so much to get em here..to Maine at least
07:17
<envite>
I do not buy them there, too
07:17
I buy at EPATec
07:17
a Spain-Germany based reseller
07:17
and, btw
07:17
i'm not happy with them
07:18
<jsgotangco>
it looks nice
07:18
<envite>
it's nice, but slow :D
07:19
<cliebow_>
slow booting..in ltsp5?
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07:19
<envite>
slow in everything, in everyversion
07:20
ogra: yours is a Vortex or a SiS ?
07:20
<ogra>
sis
07:20
<cliebow_>
wierd..ive use stuff as downwardly mobile as macintosh 66 meg successfully
07:20
<envite>
heh
07:20
like mine
07:20
<jammcq>
it's 200Mhz, so it's obviously going to be slower than the newer 500+ Mhz clients. But it's quite useable
07:20
envite: Vortex and Sis are the same thing
07:20
"Vortex" is a marketing name
07:20
the chips are all made by SiS
07:21
<envite>
well, but the difference is that
07:21
<ogra>
*all* ... tsk ... isnt that only one chip emulating all the others ?
07:21
<envite>
if it says Vortex
07:22
<jammcq>
in the bios, it says 'Vortex'. that's just a revision issue
07:22
the newer units say 'Vortex' when you go into the bios, the older ones don't say that
07:22
<envite>
it has other chips in internal
07:22
<jammcq>
and the unit ogra has is indeed a 'Vortex'
07:22
<envite>
that if it says SiS
07:22
for example, the soundcard
07:23
<ogra>
3:42 ... with acpi on and noacpi dropped from the kernel line
07:23
no big change ...
07:23
<jammcq>
I've got 1 old unit and 2 new units. But, I gave away the 2 newer units to sbalneav and ogra
07:23
I'll have lots more of the newer units by the end of the month
07:23* ogra starts to ignore +/- 15secs .....
07:23
<jammcq>
ogra: yeah, that's what I started doing too.
07:24
ogra: how about we find a CPU benchmarking program, and compare how it runs between 4.2 and 5.0 ?
07:24
<ogra>
same for memory access times
07:24
<jammcq>
maybe there's something the ubuntu kernel or the klibc is doing to the cpu that is messing it up
07:25* jammcq can't believe he didn't think of that earlier
07:25
<ogra>
well, our probs start after switching to the nfs root ... i start to think that our problem isnt in the initramfs ...
07:25
<jammcq>
i start to think that I don't know what to think
07:26
<ogra>
we use the modules from the nfsroot after switching over ...
07:26
probably thats worth a look
07:26
<jammcq>
well, it might rule something out
07:27* jammcq needs to pack up and head to the office
07:27
<ogra>
lets me see i'll build an initramfs with all modules ...
07:27
<jammcq>
what will that prove?
07:28
<highvoltage>
has anyone tried LTSP 5.0 on another 200mhz machine?
07:28
<jammcq>
it seems 200Mhz machines are hard to find these days
07:28
<cliebow_>
hymmmm.
07:28
<jammcq>
ciao
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07:29
<ogra>
the slowest i have ever tried was 300Mhz which was slow but dint take 3 mins to boot ...
07:36
<cliebow_>
jammcq:any link to your videoconf with mark and ogra?
07:38
<ogra>
was that recorded ?
07:45
<cliebow_>
here i am all by myself...talking to myself
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07:47
<ogra>
hmm, k ... dropping sound, localdev, nbd and going with a static xorg.conf cuts off 1min
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07:48
<cliebow_>
out of how many?
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07:49
<ogra>
2:44 instead of 3:44
07:49
trying with XDMCP now
07:49
<cliebow_>
Wow:quite a diff
07:49
<ogra>
that should get us to 2min
07:49
indeed
07:49
the X autodetection takes a lot of time
07:50
nbd negotiation as well ... i'd love to move that part past ldm, but that would indeed defeat the pupose of having network swap
07:51
<highvoltage>
cliebow_: I taped the mug-video session, but willvdl has my camera, I'm only getting it from him in two weeks :/
07:51
<ogra>
1:52 with XDMCP
07:51
<highvoltage>
wow @ 1:52
07:52
<ogra>
well
07:52
with no features at all
07:52
no swap, no sound, no localdev no ssh
07:52
<highvoltage>
yes :/
07:52
<ogra>
and static xorg.conf
07:52
which i'm fine with as a workaround
07:52
we'd just need to document it
07:53
and since the hw is the same everywhere we could provide the matching file
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07:55
<ogra>
hmm, looks like the soundcard isnt supported ayway
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07:55
<ogra>
and localdev wont work on XDMCP ...
07:56
and 128M are enough to go without nbd swap
07:57
highvoltage, btw, i got a full udb boot here now ...
07:57
*udp
07:57
the numbers are ummm, intresting ...
07:57
tcp 3.6M/s , real: 28.656s
07:57
<highvoltage>
ogra: did the udp booting make a perfomance difference?
07:57
<ogra>
udp 2.4M/s , real: 42.763s
07:57
yes
07:58
but in a totally unexpected way
07:58
<highvoltage>
hmmm... interesting
07:58
<ogra>
i tested tens of boots, the numbers are always similar
07:58
i also tested with the classmate
07:58
<highvoltage>
I wonder if something in Ubuntu's networking is just broken.
07:58
<ogra>
udp 10.9M/s , real: 9.420s
07:58
tcp 11.6M/s , real: 8.887s
07:59
i was expecting ipv6 to be in the way, but blacklisting that didnt help wither
07:59
*either
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08:07
<davidj>
jammcq: Good morning.
08:09
<jammcq>
davidj: howdie
08:09
davidj: you gonna be around for a bit?
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08:09
<davidj>
How was Spain?
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08:10
<davidj>
Yes, I'll be in the office until 11:00; it's 9:02 now.
08:10
<bellis>
If I did the gdm install inside of the thinclient directory, is going back to ldm as simple as changing the default-display-manager in /etc/X11?
08:10
<jammcq>
spain was great. right now i'm in a meeting, trying to figure out how to get back on track
08:10
so, i'll be away from keyboard for a bit
08:10
<davidj>
'k
08:11
ogra: Have you determined that the problem is definitely in the networking?
08:11
<ogra>
jammcq, dropping all features, using a static xorg.conf and XDMCP results in ~1:50
08:12
davidj, i'm just discussing with the kernel team
08:12
<davidj>
I know.
08:12
I have another possible explanation you might consider.
08:12
<ogra>
shoot
08:13
jammcq, did you say that thing has 128M ?
08:13
i only see 64 in top
08:13
<davidj>
A few years ago there was a bug in grep that caused it to run about 10x slower if you were using UTF-8.
08:13
I wonder if it might have snuck back in ;-)
08:14
<ogra>
well, such stuff should be sorted nowadays ... and we dont use grep anywhere iirc
08:14
<davidj>
No, not grep, but there are a few other things that get used.
08:14
Just a thought, I haven't examined anything yet.
08:16
<ogra>
yep, i'll look into that if i dont find other stuff ... thanks for the suggestion
08:16
<davidj>
np
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08:17
<ogra>
jammcq, i see dd eating 95% CPU ...
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08:28
<sbalneav>
Morning all
08:31
<ogra>
!s
08:31
<ltspbot>
ogra: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
08:31
<sbalneav>
Morning ogra!
08:31
<ogra>
jammcq, do you have a 4.2 kernel and module set somewhere i can drop into our chroot ?
08:31
they want to see if there is any difference using it in ltsp5
08:32
a tarred up /lib/modules and /boot would do i guess
08:41
<davidj>
Hey, Scotty
08:42
<sbalneav>
Hello davidj!
08:42
How's it going?
08:42pere is now known as pere_away
08:42
<davidj>
Not bad at all, my clients have kept me busy lately.
08:43
And you?
08:43
ogra: Jim said he would be in a meeting for a bit.
08:44
sbalneav: Have a good time in Spain?
08:44
<sbalneav>
Well, I was sick for a large part of it, but overall, I got done what I wanted, so I was happy!
08:47
<ogra>
davidj, thats fine, i'm not in a hurry :)
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08:51
<petre>
morning all
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08:55
<mhterres>
morning
08:58
<davidj>
sbalneav: I'm sorry you were sick, that's never fun.
08:59
<ogra>
he looked scary ...
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09:10
<davidj>
ogra: He always looks scary ;-)
09:10
<ogra>
heh
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09:18
<Guaraldo>
ai, all
09:18
<davidj>
When I was a student in Madrid, I remember that it took me a while to get used to the food when I got back to the US
09:20
<Guaraldo>
davidj: Well... I prefer my Brazilian food... :-D Churrasco, feijoada and my mom's Lasanha! UAU!!!
09:20* Guaraldo is a kind of hangry!
09:20
<cliebow_>
ogra i should have a chroot and kernel..
09:21
<Guaraldo>
Maybe is becouse I need to eat now!
09:21
<ogra>
cliebow, can you put it somewhere i can download it ?
09:21
<cliebow_>
just looking
09:21
169.244.3.137/
09:22
<ogra>
hmm, ok, running from a liveCD and mouning the nfsroot in /mnt doesnt give any better results for the timing
09:22
<Guaraldo>
!ltsppaste
09:22
<ltspbot>
Guaraldo: Error: "ltsppaste" is not a valid command.
09:22
<cliebow_>
ltsp4.2.tar.gz
09:22
<Guaraldo>
!ltsppbot
09:22
<ltspbot>
Guaraldo: Error: "ltsppbot" is not a valid command.
09:22
<cliebow_>
vmlinuz-2.6.16.1-ltsp-2.gz
09:23
<ogra>
cliebow, oh, thats a complete chroot :)
09:23
<cliebow_>
gunzip the kernel
09:23
<ogra>
willdo
09:24
<cliebow_>
ican get you /lib/modules and /boot if necessary
09:27
<ogra>
well, having the whole 4.2 might help
09:27
<cliebow_>
k
09:27
<jammcq>
ogra: any progress?
09:27
<ogra>
jammcq, only that running it from the liveCD doesnt change the numbers
09:28
<jammcq>
hmm
09:28
<ogra>
jammcq, also discussions with the kernel team point me to userspace rather than the kernel
09:28
<jammcq>
sbalneav: any idea of a cpu benchmarking program that we could run on both ltsp-4.2 and ltsp-5, to compare performance?
09:28
<sbalneav>
Hmm
09:28
<jammcq>
ogra: doesn't suprise me that kernel guys would point you to userspace
09:28
<ogra>
i'm waiting for th etgz coming down the drain and will test with 4.2 kernel now
09:28* sbalneav thinks
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09:29
<sbalneav>
dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/null bs=1024K count=1 might be something of a test, but mainly math.
09:29
Ohh,
09:29
how about calculating MD5 sums on something
09:30
something on the ramdisk, and something on the nfs root.
09:30
<ogra>
jammcq, but clearly the dd is eating up all CPU while dding
09:30
seems everyhing gets piped through the CPU
09:31
sbalneav, the first one is what we're doing sincwe sevilla ... (with a 100M testfile from the nfsroot)
09:31
instead of /dev/random
09:31
<sbalneav>
You've been doing md5 sums already?
09:31
<ogra>
no, i'm concentrating on nfs for now
09:32
<jammcq>
md5sum seems interesting, but i'd want it statically linked, so we can run the exact same binary on both versions of LTSP, and be assured that it's doing the same thing
09:37
<joebaker>
ogra: that slow ISA bus sounds suspicious. Maybe there is some way that you can identify and disable the peripherals on the ISA bus? If it's Ethernet you're probably in a world of hurt. Maybe there's something in the newer kernels that probe/interact with the ISA bus differently than before.
09:38
<ogra>
gah, can build an initramfs ... udev complains
09:38
*cant
09:38
wasnt there a 2.6.18 kernel for 4.2 somewhere ?
09:38
udev wants at least .17
09:39
joebaker, well, i dont think its really any bios setting since we compared both with the same settings in sevilla
09:39
<cliebow_>
2.6.17.8..but it was wonky
09:39
i cann tar gzip that if you like..i think
09:40
heh..scratch the tar
09:40
<jammcq>
2.6.17.8 should be just fine
09:41
<ogra>
ok, so give me the /lib/modules path and vmlinuz
09:41
<cliebow_>
jammcq:ohh it was just one ethernet card that whined..
09:41
k..lemme look
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09:41
<ogra>
hmm, the e2300 has a realtek card....
09:42
<joebaker>
It sounds like somebody must have a ton of this model out there. Maybe the LinuxBios.org project people could lend a hand?
09:42
<ogra>
vagrantc, !
09:42
<vagrantc>
ogra: hi
09:42
<jammcq>
vagrantc: hey
09:42* vagrantc is in madrid
09:42
<jammcq>
oooh
09:42
beautiful city
09:42
<ogra>
found a hostel ?
09:42
or sitting in an icafe
09:43
<vagrantc>
yes, though it requires WEP which my card doesn't support :(
09:43
or, i can't figure out how to get it to work
09:43
<ogra>
bah
09:43
<vagrantc>
so i'm using corey's computer now
09:43
<cliebow_>
so smae ip addy/2.6.17.8-ltsp-1.gz
09:44
<ogra>
ok, got that one
09:45
now the modules and i'm fine
09:46
<cliebow_>
2.6.17.8-ltsp-1.tar.gz
09:46
not there yet
09:46
<ogra>
ok
09:46
<cliebow_>
now itis
09:52
<ogra>
bah
09:53
doesnt want to boot
09:55
root@laptop:/# /etc/kernel/postinst.d/ltsp-update-kernels
09:55
/boot/vmlinuz-2.6.16.1-ltsp-2: not a Linux kernel image
09:55
/boot/vmlinuz-2.6.17.8-ltsp-1: not a Linux kernel image
09:55
vagrantc, ?
09:55
aha
09:55
ogra@laptop:/opt/ltsp/i386/boot$ file vmlinuz-2.6.17.8-ltsp-1
09:55
vmlinuz-2.6.17.8-ltsp-1: Netboot image, unknown mode
09:55
<cliebow_>
aha?
09:55
<vagrantc>
hrm.
09:55
<cliebow_>
ohh
09:56
<ogra>
did you send me an etherboot image ?
09:56
ogra@laptop:/opt/ltsp/i386/boot$ file vmlinuz-2.6.20-15-386
09:56
vmlinuz-2.6.20-15-386: Linux kernel x86 boot executable RO-rootFS, root_dev 0x6801, swap_dev 0x1, Normal VGA
09:56
<cliebow_>
yeah... i guess so..
09:57
i have a bzImage-2.6.17.8
09:58
<ogra>
that might help ... check what file thinks it is
09:58
<vagrantc>
still doing speed testing of alternate kernels?
09:58
<ogra>
yep
09:58
well, i'm at the point with the kernel team where they start to poit at userspace saying "not our fault"
09:59mhterres has left #ltsp
09:59mhterres has joined #ltsp
09:59
<vagrantc>
but it takes forever to even get to loading anything in userspace
09:59
<cliebow_>
with file bz--> x86 bootsector
10:00
<ogra>
hmm
10:00
<cliebow_>
clearly for usde with pxe
10:00
<ogra>
vagrantc, well, i get down to 1.5min with disabling everything and using a static xorg.conf
10:00
<vagrantc>
forever == longer than with ltsp 4.2
10:00
<ogra>
yeah
10:00
still more than 4.2
10:02
but i'd be happy with 1.5min for the e2300 (sound wont work anyway, localdev starts after ltsp-client) ... if there wasnt that general slowness
10:02
<bellis>
ogra, based on the results from file, that is a binary kernel file
10:02
<ogra>
bellis, which doesnt help me, i need something that works with initramfs-tools
10:03
its likely very picky about that
10:03petre has quit IRC
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10:05
<ogra>
cliebow, can you put it up ?
10:05
<cliebow_>
sure
10:06meduxa has joined #ltsp
10:07
<cliebow_>
bzImage-2.6.17.8-ltsp-q.gz
10:07
whoops
10:07
<ogra>
-q `
10:07
?
10:07
<cliebow_>
bzImage-2.6.17.8-ltsp-1.gz
10:07
<ogra>
:)
10:07
<cliebow_>
there is an initramfs for it as well
10:08
<vagrantc>
ogra: so, i'm not sure i'll be able to finish ... ldm-load-balancing or network-boot-menu ...
10:08
ldm-load-balancing is mostly done
10:08
well, specced out
10:09
<ogra>
yay, it boots
10:09
<cliebow_>
there is an initramfs for it as well
10:09
<ogra>
ell, i'm fine working on the ldm stuff all over
10:10
<bellis>
Anyone know if I did the install of gdm in my thinclient directory if you simply change the default-display-manager to get the system back to using ldm
10:10vanya has quit IRC
10:10
<ogra>
no
10:10
ldm doesnt use the variable (yet)
10:10
uninstall gdm and it should work
10:13
<vagrantc>
you could leave gdm installed and set SCREEN_07=ldm
10:13
and tweak /etc/X11/default-display-manager
10:14
and then leave SCREEN_07 unset for machines you want to run gdm on
10:14
hmmm...
10:14
or something along those lines
10:14
<ogra>
hmm, right
10:16
<bellis>
well that was easy enough, thanks!
10:19vagrantc has quit IRC
10:22
<ogra>
jammcq, measuring with all features (sound,localdev,nbd) tunred off and using a static xorg.conf and XDMCP i get 1:34 with ltsp5's kernel and 1:31 with the one from cliebow
10:22
<cliebow_>
davidj:!!! long time no speal!
10:22
<ogra>
jammcq, i fear its not the kernel
10:25
<jammcq>
ogra: measuring what?
10:25
<ogra>
stopwatching boottimes
10:26
<jammcq>
1:34 on the e2300 ?
10:26
<ogra>
there is no difference between the two kernels
10:26
yes
10:26
<jammcq>
makes no sense
10:26
<ogra>
why ?
10:26
whats wrong ?
10:26
<jammcq>
I mean the whole thing makes no sense to me
10:26
not what you are doing
10:26
<ogra>
ah, i thought my method :)
10:26
<joebaker>
Compare lsmod on both running kernels?
10:26
<ogra>
i think 1.34 is pretty decent though ...
10:27
<jammcq>
you are booting ltsp-5 with a ltsp-4.2 kernel ?
10:27
<ogra>
yes
10:27
and ubuntu initramfs
10:27
<jammcq>
cool
10:27
so, I guess we have to trim down the ltsp-5 booting sequence
10:27
it's doing too much work
10:27vagrantc has joined #ltsp
10:27
<ogra>
well, there are only two major slowdowns
10:28
one is udev which we cant trim down
10:28* jammcq thinks the WHOLE THING is a major slowdown
10:28* vagrantc dances the evil wireless dance
10:28
<ogra>
the other is X detection
10:28
which we can work around by using a static file
10:28
<joebaker>
Could you have the ltsp server actually run the scripts on behalf of the thin client?
10:28
<ogra>
128M are enough to live without nbd
10:29
according to bryce he wants to redo all the X autodetection for gutsy
10:29
<davidj>
ogra: Can you trim down udev by adjusting the configs?
10:29
<vagrantc>
so, y'all are just talking about workarounds for the e2300 ?
10:29
<ogra>
davidj, nope
10:29
<davidj>
:( ah well
10:29
<ogra>
davidj, ltsp5 is supposed to also work with laptops for exmpe
10:29
example
10:29
<davidj>
Ah
10:30
<ogra>
thats why i have ot use the xorg autodetection and udev as is
10:30
<davidj>
got it
10:30
<ogra>
the thing with udev is also that triming down wont help, it iterates over all devices and modprobes anyway ...
10:30Gadi has joined #ltsp
10:30
<davidj>
Hey, Gadi
10:30
<joebaker>
Lots is done in python, right? Do we have pyc files there?
10:31
<Gadi>
davidj!
10:31
<ogra>
the modprobing and digging through the db is the slowing down part
10:31
<Gadi>
how are you?
10:31
<ogra>
not much i can do ther apart from using a monolithic kernel
10:31
<davidj>
Gadi: Not bad, my business has been growing.
10:31
<ogra>
joebaker, no python invloved in the stuff i left enabled
10:31
<Gadi>
davidj: great to hear
10:31
<davidj>
Gadi: And you?
10:31
<Gadi>
lot of demand for male prostitution?)
10:31
:D
10:31
<ogra>
joebaker, the localdev scripts and ldm are python ... i disabled both
10:32
<joebaker>
ok
10:32
<ogra>
all the rest is shell
10:32
<cliebow_>
heh
10:32
<davidj>
Gadi: :)
10:32
<Gadi>
davidj: good demand up north, too
10:32
must be the weather
10:32
good excuse to strip
10:32
<davidj>
heh
10:33
Gadi: Got time for an off-topic chat?
10:33
<Gadi>
heh, do I ever have time? for you, always...
10:33
<ogra>
jammcq, i also tried with debians xdebconfigurator ... instead of our postinst script for xorg ... beyond not producing a useable xorg.conf it wasnt faster either ... a monitor simply takes so and so long to answer a DDCprobe request ...
10:34
jammcq, my best guess for the e2300 would really be to write up a howto that suggests disabling everythig, using a static xorg.conf and XDMCP
10:35
<jammcq>
ogra: disabling local devices ?
10:35
<ogra>
i'll see that i can get the new ldm speedy though ... but it will surely add ~15secs
10:35
locald devices are started after ldm/XDMCP so that shouldnt have any effect
10:35
let me try ...
10:36Burgundavia has joined #ltsp
10:36* jammcq suspects people will skip Ubuntu and choose k12ltsp for the e2300
10:36
<ogra>
sound wont work before someone writes a working alsa module anyway
10:36
jammcq, which gives you what ?
10:36
<joebaker>
It would be helpful to provide a local storage location for autodetected information to be stored. A compact Flash or unused bios memory, or further into an Etherboot disk. You could store xorg configuration, hardware info, etc... Maybe this could be used to trim down the bootup time.
10:36
<jammcq>
speed, sound, devices, swap
10:36
<ogra>
where would k12 get sound from ?
10:37
<jammcq>
sis7019 module
10:37
isn't that the chip it uses?
10:37
<ogra>
there is no support for the card in that module
10:37
<jammcq>
no ALSA support
10:37
<ogra>
it unloads itself
10:37
<Burgundavia>
vagrantc finally got online
10:37
<ogra>
i see it complaining
10:38
jammcq, well, sound and localdev wont slow down much i can even move sound to start after ldm so it wont affect the booting
10:38
jammcq, what swap mechanism does k12 use ?
10:38
<jammcq>
nbd
10:39
<ogra>
and that doesnt slow down for them ?
10:40
negotiating the connection alone takes 15secs
10:40root___ has joined #ltsp
10:40
<ogra>
mkswap and swapon another 10 or so
10:42
1:34 with localdev ... no trace of pulseaudio (sice there are no sound devices) but it was run during the startup sequence
10:42
so localdev and sound dont affect it at all
10:42
nbd will though
10:43
and ndb is actually the only thing i cant start after X
10:43
<vagrantc>
could background nbd
10:43
<jammcq>
ogra: 1:34 starting at what point? Power-on ?
10:43
<ogra>
yes
10:43
<joebaker>
Here's a thought... build a hash of the lspci information and perform a lookup against hardware configurations that have been detected in the past. Somehow saving the xorg.conf results back to the LTSP server in another NFS share that's writable by the client.
10:43
<ogra>
up to the grey screen with the X (my gdm wasnt restarted yet since i have stuff in my session i dont want to loose)
10:43
jammcq, so add 6 secs for gdm to come up ...
10:44
over the thumb
10:44
but even 1:40 is fine
10:44
what we need is scotties support for XDMCP in localdev then we can point e2300 to a static xorg.conf and tell them to use XDMCP
10:45
*e2300 users
10:45
apart from nbd i dont see any difference to k12 here
10:47
and i'd really love to see how they would manage nbd/mkswap/swapon without affecting the bootprocess *and having swap available *before* X starts
10:48
<jammcq>
aside from nbd swap, k12ltsp can boot that unit in 41 seconds. the best you've been able to do is more than double that time
10:48
so there is still considerable differences
10:48
<vagrantc>
mkswap can be done server-side
10:48
<ogra>
yes your fake nfsroot
10:48
<jammcq>
personally..... 41 secs vs 90 secs isn't that big a deal
10:48
but users will complain
10:48
<ogra>
i'll look into that again in another session
10:48
<jammcq>
and when they do, no good will come of that
10:49
<ogra>
well, the CPU is running constantly on 100% on both kernels as soo as i do something locally
10:49
its simply a way slow thing
10:49
s/way/very/
10:50
<jammcq>
my feeling is that treating a low-powered thin client as though it's a real desktop computer, and expecting it to execute all (or much) of the start stuff that a full desktop goes through is the wrong approach. I think we need to treat this e2300 more like an embedded device
10:51
<ogra>
right, thats what we do
10:51
<jammcq>
no, not really
10:51
<ogra>
thats the reason i'm proposing to use a static xorg.conf
10:51
<jammcq>
ltsp-4.2 is much more like an embedded os
10:51
very simple startup scripts
10:51
very simple hardware detection
10:51
<ogra>
there are only 5 startup scripts left in ltsp5
10:52
i wont rewrite udev
10:52
<jammcq>
I don't expect a rewrite of udev
10:52
<ogra>
well, so make a suggestion
10:52
what do you want ?
10:52
what does 4.2 use not udev ?
10:52
<jammcq>
I'm very interested in the 'Ubuntu mobile' stuff that Matt announced. certainly it's not ready for a while, but seems interesting
10:52
<ogra>
*use,
10:53
indeed
10:53
<jammcq>
ltsp-4.2 only uses udev for loading the local device modules
10:53tiagovaz has quit IRC
10:53
<ogra>
i will work wth that on the classmate as well, so surely we can benefit
10:53tiagovaz has joined #ltsp
10:53
<ogra>
which are these ?
10:53
<jammcq>
huh?
10:53
<ogra>
gimme a list and i can tr to blacklist the world
10:53
*try
10:54
<jammcq>
maybe scotty can give a list
10:54
<ogra>
all ltsp5 loads is ide/usb and all the subsystems
10:54
<jammcq>
I don't know it that well
10:54
<ogra>
oh207, and sound indeed
10:54nf1 has joined #ltsp
10:54
<jammcq>
ltsp-4.2 X config is much simpler
10:55
<ogra>
bt even then it needs to iterate over the PCI ID database of the kernel
10:55
right
10:55
<jammcq>
hmm, not really. it just looks at /proc/bus/pci/something
10:55
<ogra>
i agree that out X config sucks at speed
10:55
but it always works
10:56
<jammcq>
I was hoping we'd find the magic bullet last week. unfortunately, there seems to not be one
10:56
<ogra>
jammcq, nope, it walks the sysfs
10:56
<jammcq>
I found a cpu benchmarking suite called 'nbench'. I just finished running it on ltsp-5. it seems to compare almost exactly to ltsp-4.2
10:56
ogra: what does?
10:57
for network card, video card and sound chipset, we simply look at the /proc/bus/pci file
10:57
that's /proc/bus/pci/devices
10:57
<ogra>
jammcq, our X detection
10:57
<jammcq>
oh
10:57
<ogra>
does always work ...
10:58
or what were yu referring to ?
10:58
<jammcq>
ltsp-4.2 and device detection
10:58
<ogra>
ah
10:58* ogra tries a boot with backgrounded nbd
10:59
<jammcq>
what puzzles me is that with ltsp-4.2, we're sitting at a login screen at just about the time the ltsp-5 kernel jumps into user space
10:59
<ogra>
so give me your kernel .config and we'll get a -ltsp flavor
10:59
<jammcq>
you want 2.6.20 ?
11:00
seems like I gave you that last week, but I'll make it available again
11:00
<ogra>
1:33.94 secs with backgrounded nbd
11:00
<jammcq>
stopwatch?
11:00
<ogra>
meh
11:00
but race condition
11:00
swapon didnt work
11:00
yep, stopwatch
11:01* jammcq is happy to see we are at least using the same timing method now
11:01
<ogra>
you know i dont like yours but you forced me into it :P
11:01
ok, but i think the nbd stuff is solvable
11:02
<jammcq>
http://www.McQuil.com/config-2.6.20.9-ltsp-1
11:02
<ogra>
now we have X and udev ... and probably a new kernel that gains us some secs before initramfs
11:02jsgotangco has quit IRC
11:04
<ogra>
jammcq, are you in #ubuntu-devel ?
11:05
BenC wants a .22 config
11:05
<jammcq>
no, but I can be
11:05
<ogra>
then we can get our package right away with next build
11:05
well, you got the info :)
11:06
<vagrantc>
how different will a .20 config be?
11:07
<ogra>
according to ben there were massive changes
11:08
<vagrantc>
ah, .6 the "stable" release branch.
11:14* ogra needs a break now ... i didnt even take time to read all my mails
11:15
<vagrantc>
i find swimming in saltwater much more cleansing than any shower.
11:15
<ogra>
btw, if you switch the BIOS to "acpi aware OS" the powerbutton doesnt sut down immediately ;) might help people that kill the thing with unplugging stuff
11:15
vagrantc, where do you have saltwater in madrid ?
11:15
<vagrantc>
ogra: well, yesterday i was in cadiz :)
11:16
<ogra>
pfft ...
11:16
<vagrantc>
no hay internet
11:16
<ogra>
and we'Re freezing here in germany ...
11:16
12°C ...
11:16
no fun
11:16
<Burgundavia>
is 20 is Madrid
11:16
<vagrantc>
it's freezing 0°C
11:16
<ogra>
bah ...
11:16
<vagrantc>
?
11:17* ogra now really goes downstairs for a looong break
11:17* vagrantc thought that was the whole point of centigrade/celcius
11:17
<ogra>
you just make me envoius
11:18* vagrantc is done playing
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11:24
<Burgundavia>
we are heading out for dinner
11:24
say goodbye vagrantc
11:24
<vagrantc>
or else
11:24vagrantc has quit IRC
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11:40
<joebaker>
jammcq - So what do you think of the hardware detection match idea? HWMATCH=`lspci | md5sum` next look for a matching xorg.conf-${HWMATCH}
11:43Q-FUNK has quit IRC
11:43
<highvoltage>
boo.
11:44
<cliebow_>
eek
11:44
<highvoltage>
mhuhahahahaha.
11:45Burgundavia has quit IRC
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11:55
<moquist>
ogra: the last 1:15 of yesterday's boot times was taken up by the 'gtk' greeter pegging the processor.
11:56SBNet has quit IRC
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11:57
<cliebow_>
moquist: who do you have talking at unh-nels?
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13:27* kaminski-ltsp-br is away: away
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13:54
<Mineque>
hello
13:54
does the bluetooth usb stick works on ltsp 4.2?
14:01root___ has quit IRC
14:04
<sbalneav>
Mineque: I don't think we've got any bluetooth support in 4.2
14:05
Is this for like a bluetooth mouse, or something?
14:05
<Mineque>
bluetooth dongle
14:05
<sbalneav>
What are you wanting to communicate with?
14:06
<Mineque>
mobile phone for example...
14:06
<sbalneav>
No, I don't think that would work.
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14:57
<chupacabra>
is xfce distro dependant nowadays?
14:58
is ltsp distro dependant nowadays?
14:58
oops
14:58
does one have to run X on the server?
14:58
<Egyptian[Home]>
chupacabra: no
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15:03
<comfrey>
hey all...
15:03
i am looking to get vncviewer on SCREEN_03.
15:03
i assume this is something easy to accomplish?
15:04
i had an issue yesterday. cant remember what. but i will try again after these folks close up shop here
15:04
fell back to ltsp 4.2.
15:04
i sure dont understand all of the details of 5 yes
15:04
yet
15:05
<bellis_away>
comfrey, 5 is quite a departure to how things were done, but once you get used to it, it is alot better
15:05bellis_away is now known as bellis
15:05
<comfrey>
that is good to hear.
15:05
<bellis>
comfrey, it makes package installation and maintenance alot easier
15:05
<comfrey>
i just was really confused by the seeming deprication of lts.conf
15:07
i do look forward to better
15:07
<bellis>
comfrey, were you able to get the vncviewer to work as you had hoped?
15:07
<comfrey>
and easier
15:07
not yet...
15:07
<bellis>
comfrey, are you getting a specific error or anything that is not working?
15:07
<comfrey>
l don't want to interfere with the working people.
15:07
i think something about a screen script.
15:08
don't recall exactly.
15:08
<bellis>
comfrey, ahh ic, just post it out when you get a chance and someone on here should be able to help
15:08
<comfrey>
1 hour to go before testing
15:08
sweet
15:08
i hope so :)
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15:40
<vagrantc>
jammcq: have y'all discussed any dates for the LTSP shindig in portland?
15:40
or anyone who knows
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15:56
<cliebow>
chupacabra you there?
15:58Arauto has joined #ltsp
15:58
<cliebow>
chupacabra, ltsp4.2 ws built in the llbe..ubuntu haas built ltsp5 with its own binaries and kernel..5 is still a work in progress..but the nfsrot and kernel cana be had and run on other distros
15:58
<petre>
in 4.2, is /etc/profile.d/ltsp.sh an ltsp thing or a k12ltsp thing?
15:59
<cliebow>
i this k12..
15:59
i think k12..
15:59Guaraldo has left #ltsp
16:00
<petre>
cliebow: tx
16:02
<cliebow>
sure..
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16:08
<petre>
guess I'll moan to Eric about how it still calls ltspinfo even on strictly ssh sessions to the server
16:09mhterres has left #ltsp
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16:12
<cliebow>
havnt heard a word from Eric for ages..
16:15Gadi has left #ltsp
16:16
<petre>
he hasn't posted many messages to the list lately either
16:17
does he have a significant other? perhaps he didn't but does now
16:18
although he's gotten early releases of K12 ver. 7 out
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16:51
<comfrey_>
ok, so i am getting SCREEN_SCRIPT vncviewer not found!
17:03muh2000 has joined #ltsp
17:04
<comfrey_>
any tips on this one?
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17:28
<comfrey_>
ok, i plugged in the vnc screen script
17:28
and...
17:28
i guess i need to find the binary to drop in
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17:34
<comfrey_>
have that on the way
17:35
looking positive
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17:53
<comfrey_>
geez, i need to find a statically linked vncviewer
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21:20
<PMantis>
hey jammcq !!
21:20
Hi ogra !
21:21
<jammcq>
PMantis: hey
21:24
<davidj>
jammcq: Hey
21:25
<jammcq>
hey davidj
21:25
how you doin?
21:25
<davidj>
I'm great
21:25
a bit tired, it's been a long few weeks.
21:25
<jammcq>
heh, tell me about it
21:25
<davidj>
:)
21:25
Yeah, well, at least I'm not jetlagged.
21:27davidj is now known as davidj_away
21:27
<davidj_away>
jammcq: Will you be around tomorrow?
21:28
<jammcq>
yeah
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22:20
<milosz>
jammcq:
22:20
around
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