LTSP 5 is in minimal maintenance mode
The new LTSP is hosted at https://ltsp.github.io

IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 11 August 2019   (all times are UTC)

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05:00
<alkisg>
(01:07:00 AM) rkwesk: I am working through updating documentation on ltsp with bullseye (will be Debian 11)
05:00
Richard, Debian 11 will probably have LTSP 19
05:01
So whatever documentation you're preparing now, won't apply. Just document Buster, not Bullseye
05:07
If a script is needed, I should include it to ltsp19; if using network manager is enough, I should documented in `man ltsp dnsmasq`; there shouldn't be much need for distro-specific tutorials in ltsp19
05:16
vagrantc: someone here claimed that we have a security issue in ltsp5; that if someone uses "fish" as a login shell, he logs in as root
05:16
Dunno if you care to test/re-release...
05:17
<vagrantc>
seems highly improbably
05:17
improbable
05:17
in fact, if someone uses an alternate shell, login generally fails completely in my experience
05:18
<alkisg>
(09:35:23 AM) uumas: Apparently ltsp5 logs anyone whose login shell isn't /bin/bash (or is /usr/bin/fish, didn't bother testing) in as root on clients. Took a moment to hunt that one down (one user logs in as root while everyone else is normal)
05:18
<vagrantc>
easy enough to test
05:19
guess it could be error handling in one of the ldm login hooks or something
05:19
<alkisg>
(10:12:16 AM) uumas: Was apparently much quicker to test than I thought. Submitted a report!
05:20
uumas: where? I don't see it in launchpad... I wonder if I have enough rights to see ltsp security issues though...
05:26
vagrantc: remind me please, shell is "arch:any", or "arch:all"?
05:27* alkisg is constantly having a hard time remembering/googling this
05:27
<vagrantc>
could be either
05:27
<alkisg>
The one that doesn't need rebuilding, I mean
05:27
That is built only once
05:27
<vagrantc>
arch:all
05:27
<alkisg>
Ty!
05:28
<vagrantc>
"all" architectures are able to use the same package, "any" architecture could build a package.
05:28* alkisg tries to find a few spare bytes in his mind to store that...
05:29
<vagrantc>
it almost makes sense in english, but it's very nuanced
05:30
<alkisg>
Eh, "all" architectures are able to build the source package, while "any" of them can rebuild a binary if it needs... too much word playing for my non-native english...
05:30
<vagrantc>
agreed, it's too subtle a distinction
05:30* alkisg managed to stored that look up epoptes or ltsp19 the next time he needs it
05:30
<alkisg>
*store
05:30
<vagrantc>
even for a native speaker
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07:27
<uumas>
alkisg: This is the bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/1839431
07:28
It says "Only the security group can see this information"
07:32
I added you as a subscriber for the bug. Idk of that helps
07:39
<alkisg>
uumas: I just tried it and I can see it, dunno if the subscription helped or not
07:39
uumas: please add vagrantc too; I'm too focused on ltsp19 now to re-focus on ltsp5...
07:40
thanks :)
07:42
<uumas>
alkisg: Added
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14:52
<alkisg>
debian/control = something like https://termbin.com/0i3b
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16:28
<mmarconm>
anyone using ltsp on lubuntu 18.04, with lxqt ?
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20:01
<alkisg>
vagrantc: now with the usr merge... are we supposed to write #!/bin/sh or #!/usr/bin/sh ?
20:19
<uumas>
alkisg: Not sure, but #/bin/sh is at least better for backwards compatibility and the symlinks aren't going away because literally everything depends on them.
20:19
<alkisg>
uumas: I think fedora doesn't even have a /bin/sh symlink anymore; will need to re-check
20:21
<uumas>
That couldn't possibly be
20:27
alkisg: Yeah, Fedora, Debian and Arch all have the entire /bin symlinked to /usr/bin
20:27
<alkisg>
Great
20:28
Maybe I was looking in the initramfs; I do remember something weird about fedora, but not what it was
20:29
<uumas>
alkisg: And (debian) systems upgraded from older versions still have it only in /bin/sh so you should definitely use that.
20:30
<alkisg>
Dracut is fine too; dunno what I'm mis-remembering...
20:30* vagrantc found the argument for /usr merge dubious
20:31
<vagrantc>
would have been better to move everything from /usr into /bin and /sbin
20:32
<uumas>
Why did /usr/* exist in the first place when they already had equivalents in /
20:32* alkisg would love it if the top dirs actually meant something useful; e.g. /usr => read only; /etc => host info; /var => writeable etc etc; in this sense, /bin would go into usr...
20:33
<alkisg>
E.g. ideally, it should be possible to install all debian buster arches into a single disk, and netboot any number of clients off of that
20:33
/usr/share would contain the arch:all packages, while the arch:any would go in /usr/<arch> or something (or /lib)
20:38
<uumas>
alkisg: It's not really that common to need multiple arches under a single root. I can see that as being difficult to maintain (but could be wrong)
20:39
<alkisg>
uumas: I think some concepts in FHS are oriented towards that separation though
20:40
<uumas>
Could be, haven't dug too deep into it. There's chroot and debootstrap which mostly achieve the goal for the few purposes that need it though.
20:42* alkisg has generated the first alpha version of "ltsp_19.08-1_all.deb"; enough for today, tomorrow the installation tests start :)
20:42
<vagrantc>
the reason for the /usr separation is historical and made sense at the time, largely due to the price of fast disks
20:42
<alkisg>
-rw-r--r-- 1 alkisg alkisg 55K Αυγ 11 23:37 ltsp_19.08-1_all.deb ==> 55k, not bad :D
20:43
<uumas>
alkisg: Oh nice :D But yeah nothing should ever depend on anything being in /usr/* that wasn't there before usr migration for the foreseeable future.
20:44
<alkisg>
And having a very quick way to push things from /etc/ltsp/* to ltsp.img to the clients is very very handy... e.g. I put code to look for sshfs there, so that if it's not in a live cd, the sysadmin can just put the binary in /etc/ltsp/ssh-$(uname -m)
20:44
<uumas>
And oh hey, same timezone
20:44
<alkisg>
In the summer only!
20:44
I think in the winder we're different; we're UTC+02 here
20:44
<uumas>
Same here
20:44
<alkisg>
Ah, cool
20:45
<uumas>
I think most of the world has summer time
20:45
Dunno about Asia
20:45
Or anything other than America/Europe for that matter
20:46
<vagrantc>
relying on any particular PATH layout is asking for troubles...
20:47
<alkisg>
PATH? About /etc? No if it's there, I symlink it to /usr/bin/sshfs
20:50
<vagrantc>
assuming a system-wide PATH exists at all ... but i've been getting into more esoteric distros :)
20:51* alkisg googles for distros named "soul searching debian" or similarly...
20:51
<alkisg>
...what esoteric distros?!
20:52
<vagrantc>
GNU Guix and NixOS
20:52
<alkisg>
Heey that thing can run gnome? nice
20:53
<vagrantc>
i think the only thing in an expected path is /bin/sh ... everything else is dynamically added to PATH at boot.
20:53
well, that's even an oversimplification... but anyways
20:54
solves the problem of weather to use /bin/foo vs. /usr/bin/foo in a very different way ... by discovery.
20:55
<alkisg>
Well, packages could ship package/bin/ dir, package/sbin dir, package/man dir etc etc, and the "dpkg/installer/whatever" could just look there and update a master cache on installation/uninstallation
20:55
No need for global locations at all..
20:58
<vagrantc>
well, that doesn't allow different users to have different versions installed :)
20:58
but probably best not to derail #ltsp further :)
20:59
<alkisg>
There are system services and user services; system settings and user settings; system cache and user cache; no problems there...
20:59
Yeah, it's midnight anyway; pumpkin time
21:00* vagrantc waves to alkisg
21:00* alkisg would wave, but ogra would say "shore" again :P
21:00
<alkisg>
....so... goodnight!
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